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Nightwave + alerts removal feedback


SilverBones
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On 2019-07-08 at 4:52 AM, Kconvey said:

you are joking right?

This is one of the most casual unfriendly systems I have ever seen.

FOMO is UTTERLY rational, its not like umbra forma are easy to get. The devs even said, you need to do about 60% of the missions to get to the end, now the umbra forma isnt all the way at the end but its very close.

 

No, It's irrational, I didn't do everything for the first nightwave, I Hit rank 32 and then I left it alone as I didn't know how many weeks were left, it ran for 6 more weeks after I finished it. 60% is not much of every weeks activities. And they said that they were going to make it easier for people to hit rank 30 this time around.  Although given they said they listened to our complaints and gave us Gild and Forma tasks in the first week, I'll take that with a grain of salt.

The FOMO feeling people create for themselves is because they don't bother doing any maths in regards to how many points they've earned, and how many they need.

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The FOMO people have is fully rational.

Sure, if you can do all the acts, and just pick and choose the ones you like, or ignore the ones you don't, and can play all day, and have no concerns about your schedule, or potentially missing the opportunity to play for any given period of time... you have no concerns, no fear.

There are so many things that can make Nightwave a Nightmare for people, that if they don't do everything they CAN do, they realistically MIGHT not be able to hit rank 30 in their situation. You may have no problem, but some people could. To say that those people aren't being rational is applying your life situation to theirs, a lack of empathy, sympathy, caring about them.

Since the Nightwave system was supposed to be MORE forgiving for those with these odd life circumstances, allowing people to make progress toward the old alert rewards at their own pace, I find this extremely contradictory in the way Nightwave was set up with a deadline of expiring rewards and limited time availability of tasks to earn credit toward those rewards. The catch-up mechanic might as well not exist in its current form, as it still locks people out of missed acts if they can't complete one blockade act if they can't complete it (like if Defeat the Orb fight that needs max rank pops up again in any future week, and people don't have access to that fight for whatever reason, every act before that, that they missed, will be locked behind that one act until they can complete it... yeah... great. (not a problem for me, but for others, a BIG problem.))

So, with rational thinking, a person who can see themselves being unable to complete 60% of the acts, HAS to do every single act that they see, as soon as they can, because who knows what will happen in the future? They may not WANT to spend 3 forma on something, but now, FOMO, have to spend that forma for the standing, or else... can't just pick and choose to not do it because it's not convenient... until a person hits rank 30, and they can safely ignore all acts from that point forward, they can't safely ignore stuff and putz around doing only the acts they like... Nightwave takes priority and locks you in to doing its list of chores before anything else you have time to do that week.

Just because you don't have FOMO, doesn't mean others shouldn't, that it's not real, or that it's not justified.

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On 2019-07-09 at 9:32 AM, (XB1)Nightseid said:

Perhaps replace the gid/forma challenges with the riven reveal challenges and I do not mean reveal x amount of rivens in a week, I mean like - get 3 headshots from 100 meters away, protect defense objective for 5 waves without it recieving damage, etc. So nightwave is also improving the player base and semi-challenges the veterans.

What about rivens reveal ? personally I'd be fine with paying like 1000 kuva to reveal them from the start.

Additional note nightwave didnt just our daily alerts but also our random mission challenges. 

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19 hours ago, Bioness said:

Why does it matter if new players can't do it?

Nightwave replaced the Alert system, which assuming planet access was available new players could easily access for things like aura mods and Gift of the Lotus alerts (which I don't think I've seen one of since intermission started).

This means that something that used to be behind a simple area access is now behind various things like Profit-taker and Kuva Survival, which take time to even get basic access to, much less complete.

While DE did take a decent step forward with some Cred frontloading like I and many others suggested, there are still some questionable elements for both new players and longtime ones. One example oft-discussed in this thread being Forma/Gild being pointless for longtime players as they have done it all already so doing more is just a waste of time and resources.

DE is trying to appeal to a large crowd, but not by finding common ground between the crowds (New Mid and End tier players), but rather making smaller separate grounds for both which leaves none of them happy because many of the challenges will either be near impossible, boring or pointless depending on progress levels.

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5 hours ago, (PS4)AyinDygra said:

The FOMO people have is fully rational.

Sure, if you can do all the acts, and just pick and choose the ones you like, or ignore the ones you don't, and can play all day, and have no concerns about your schedule, or potentially missing the opportunity to play for any given period of time... you have no concerns, no fear.

There are so many things that can make Nightwave a Nightmare for people, that if they don't do everything they CAN do, they realistically MIGHT not be able to hit rank 30 in their situation. You may have no problem, but some people could. To say that those people aren't being rational is applying your life situation to theirs, a lack of empathy, sympathy, caring about them.

Since the Nightwave system was supposed to be MORE forgiving for those with these odd life circumstances, allowing people to make progress toward the old alert rewards at their own pace, I find this extremely contradictory in the way Nightwave was set up with a deadline of expiring rewards and limited time availability of tasks to earn credit toward those rewards. The catch-up mechanic might as well not exist in its current form, as it still locks people out of missed acts if they can't complete one blockade act if they can't complete it (like if Defeat the Orb fight that needs max rank pops up again in any future week, and people don't have access to that fight for whatever reason, every act before that, that they missed, will be locked behind that one act until they can complete it... yeah... great. (not a problem for me, but for others, a BIG problem.))

So, with rational thinking, a person who can see themselves being unable to complete 60% of the acts, HAS to do every single act that they see, as soon as they can, because who knows what will happen in the future? They may not WANT to spend 3 forma on something, but now, FOMO, have to spend that forma for the standing, or else... can't just pick and choose to not do it because it's not convenient... until a person hits rank 30, and they can safely ignore all acts from that point forward, they can't safely ignore stuff and putz around doing only the acts they like... Nightwave takes priority and locks you in to doing its list of chores before anything else you have time to do that week.

Just because you don't have FOMO, doesn't mean others shouldn't, that it's not real, or that it's not justified.

FOMO by it's very nature is irrational. It is an irrational fear. And because of it's psychological nature will never be rational. If you look at the Nightwave tasks and your immediate thought is "I can't do all of them so I must do all of them now," that is very irrational. it's also a paradox."I can't do all the tasks, so I will do all the tasks" is not something a rational person thinks. I never said it's not real, I agreed with the other person that is was irrational.  And it is.

Yep, I have all the time in the world to play Warframe which is why I've only spent maybe half dozen hours this week playing it, and only have 3 challenges left, 1 I will not bother with for sure.
 And 1 I may take a shot at this weekend. And I've even managed to do a couple of other non Nightwave related things too.

Right now it seems like there are 43500 standing from 7 daily, 5 easy weekly, and 2 harder weekly tasks. Now if it it runs for 10 weeks which is the minimum ( I think it was 12 and a half weeks last time and I think was wrong on the 6 weeks I ignored it, it was probably 3.) You can almost ignore the 7k tasks with only needing to do 1 of them during that 10 weeks. if you do four 4500 tasks and one 7000 task per week as well as the daily tasks you will hit rank 30 before 10 weeks is up.

Again, any form of FOMO is purely irrational. If you fell you are under the influence of FOMO, then you are not acting rationally.

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2 hours ago, Aldain said:

Nightwave replaced the Alert system, which assuming planet access was available new players could easily access for things like aura mods and Gift of the Lotus alerts (which I don't think I've seen one of since intermission started).

This means that something that used to be behind a simple area access is now behind various things like Profit-taker and Kuva Survival, which take time to even get basic access to, much less complete.

While DE did take a decent step forward with some Cred frontloading like I and many others suggested, there are still some questionable elements for both new players and longtime ones. One example oft-discussed in this thread being Forma/Gild being pointless for longtime players as they have done it all already so doing more is just a waste of time and resources.

DE is trying to appeal to a large crowd, but not by finding common ground between the crowds (New Mid and End tier players), but rather making smaller separate grounds for both which leaves none of them happy because many of the challenges will either be near impossible, boring or pointless depending on progress levels.

Alerts were also gated behind Planetary access, Kuva Fortress access, Void Access. Having Night Wave tasks that cater to late game access areas is no different than the alert system. 

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8 hours ago, (PS4)AyinDygra said:

The catch-up mechanic might as well not exist in its current form, as it still locks people out of missed acts if they can't complete one blockade act if they can't complete it (like if Defeat the Orb fight that needs max rank pops up again in any future week, and people don't have access to that fight for whatever reason, every act before that, that they missed, will be locked behind that one act until they can complete it... yeah... great. (not a problem for me, but for others, a BIG problem.))

This is one of my complaints with Nightwave. Fortuna has never run as well for me as PoE, ever since they fixed the black bars that some, including me, were seeing across the landscape. Fortuna continues to run so slowly and lag so much, for me, that I don't go there unless there's a challenge like this, and maybe not even then. I know that I will spend way too much time in loading screens, and that even then it might not run once I get there. (My computer might be old, but it runs PoE well enough to get by, so why is Fortuna so different?) So yeah, if stuff is going to be gated behind a Fortuna-related challenge, then I'm stuck.

A similar thing happened near the end of Intermission. I suppose it's nice that, when I finished the last week's challenges, I got a few of the previous week's unfinished challenges. However, when one of those was "complete three sorties," and Intermission was ending in a couple days, I was stuck anyway.

So I guess that's two separate complaints. One, if you're going to run events and challenges centered around a specific area of the game, then make sure that area works. Two, the catchup system is a decent effort, but doesn't really allow the access to past challenges that it's supposed to.

For purposes of comparison, regarding the catchup system: I play PUBG mobile semi-regularly. Their Royale Pass system has daily missions, which are available for three days before expiring (identical to NW's daily challenges), and challenge missions, which are revealed on a weekly basis and remain available for the rest of the season. Under this system, there's a timed gate on the daily missions, and on the season as a whole. However, there's a ton of freedom to complete the weekly-revealed challenge missions at one's own pace. And that's how easy it could be to minimize FOMO in Nightwave.

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On ‎2019‎-‎03‎-‎04 at 3:47 PM, [DE]Bear said:

Hey Tenno,

…..For some of these Elite challenges, we were attempting to speak to the endurance runners, but it seems we may have missed the mark....

You want to seek endurance runners? Endgame. It's a simple but unbreakable truth.

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14 hours ago, Aldain said:

Nightwave replaced the Alert system, which assuming planet access was available new players could easily access for things like aura mods and Gift of the Lotus alerts (which I don't think I've seen one of since intermission started).

This means that something that used to be behind a simple area access is now behind various things like Profit-taker and Kuva Survival, which take time to even get basic access to, much less complete.

While DE did take a decent step forward with some Cred frontloading like I and many others suggested, there are still some questionable elements for both new players and longtime ones. One example oft-discussed in this thread being Forma/Gild being pointless for longtime players as they have done it all already so doing more is just a waste of time and resources.

DE is trying to appeal to a large crowd, but not by finding common ground between the crowds (New Mid and End tier players), but rather making smaller separate grounds for both which leaves none of them happy because many of the challenges will either be near impossible, boring or pointless depending on progress levels.

New players aren't going to and don't have to do every challenge. Most of the non elites and all the daily challenges are easily doable and enable players to get their fill of aura mods and whatever else.

Since Nightwave season 1 started, aura mods have all dropped in value, they are easier to obtain than ever.

Edited by Bioness
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Series 2 is in a much better place than Season 1. 

The pace for ranking up feels much more natural, and most of the objectives don't feel like your entire gameplay time needs to be dedicated to Nightwave to finish by the deadline.

The ability to miss days and come back and 'recover' previous objectives to catch up is fantastic. During the Nightwave Intermission, when many of the changes were made, I didn't participate for a lot of it since I had visitors staying in my house from 4 different countries (for a wedding) all month. Once they left I was able to catch up and get the ephemera that I had assumed I was going to miss out on.

Nora is just fantastic. I still want to kill of the Lotus (no offense Spacemom) and make Nora the new quest giver. 

Overall, being able to do "alerts" with on more lenient schedule and select the rewards we care about makes it a much better replacement for the old alert system, with more unique rewards as well. 🙂 

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6 hours ago, (PS4)corpusbonds said:

I’m still disappointed in not only the gild challenge being there, but also the same issue of doing some NW challenges, only to reset when back at orbiter.

Can that be fixed at least? Please?

Regarding the Gild challenge, we have removed it from any future weeks so it won't appear again this Series.
As for your bug... we will look into that.

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14 minutes ago, [DE]Rebecca said:

Regarding the Gild challenge, we have removed it from any future weeks so it won't appear again this Series.
As for your bug... we will look into that.

Can you do the same for the Forma one?

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17 minutes ago, [DE]Rebecca said:

Regarding the Gild challenge, we have removed it from any future weeks so it won't appear again this Series.
As for your bug... we will look into that.

As stated by others, the forma one really should be removed, too.

Any that basically tells players to waste their resources should not be "challenges".

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32 minutes ago, [DE]Rebecca said:

Regarding the Gild challenge, we have removed it from any future weeks so it won't appear again this Series.
As for your bug... we will look into that.

Ah ok. I can only have so many MOAs.. you know? Because then I get attached and can’t get rid of them 😔

 As for the glitch, I’m sorry- I actually thought it was brought up before! 

Edit: Hopefully I didn’t come off as rude.. I really wasn’t trying to :c.

Edited by (PS4)corpusbonds
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26 minutes ago, Sean said:

As stated by others, the forma one really should be removed, too.

Any that basically tells players to waste their resources should not be "challenges".

You get atleast 3 forma for free from Nightwave anyway and on top of that with the challenge they also relesed a new prime and 2 new weapons and Plague Star ended not that long ago. Just because you are one of the many lazy long-time players who always cry becasue they have to do something for rewards doesn't mean the rest of the community don't need to forma stuff. I have everything formad atleast 4-6 times and I don't cry because I need to forma something in fact I try out new and different builds that needs forma so its a win-win... you act like as a player who don't have hundreds of forma or resources to craft them btw. 

Edited by R4IDEN_
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8 minutes ago, R4IDEN_ said:

You get atleast 3 forma for free from Nightwave anyway and on top of that with the challenge they also relesed a new prime and 2 new weapons and Plague Star ended not that long ago. Just because you are one of the many lazy long-time players who always cry becasue they have to do something for rewards doesn't mean the rest of the community don't need to forma stuff. I have everything formad atleast 4-6 times and I don't cry because I need to forma something in fact I try out new and different builds that needs forma so its a win-win... you act like as a player who don't have hundreds of forma or resources to craft them btw. 

 

I like how you assume that is my reasoning.

I'm actually fine with real challenges that involve survival or defense, just they have to scale based on what they are (which was the problem with the 60min Kuva Survival in that its reward didn't match it).

 

Slapping 3 forma on some items aren't an actual challenge and throwing forma on things that I don't like is just a waste of forma.

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50 minutes ago, BeardyKyle said:

Any reason why we don’t have one standard credit form for nightwave?

Presumably so you can't just farm a bunch during one season and cash them out in future ones?

50 minutes ago, BeardyKyle said:

All the wolf creds I didn’t use for instance...what do with them now?

Sell them for regular ol' credits.

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Maybe the challenges could be different depending on the level of the player... Or players with a really high level get more difficult missions instead of those forma/gild challenges 🙂 Like all missions are the same exept the difficult ones. low level players get forma etc. challenges while high level players get 30min survival on mot in the void or do sorties.

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1 hour ago, [DE]Rebecca said:

Regarding the Gild challenge, we have removed it from any future weeks so it won't appear again this Series.
As for your bug... we will look into that.

If the same can be done for the Forma Act as well, that will be awesome. 

In the future, a kills with polarized weapon would be much better imo.

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1 hour ago, R4IDEN_ said:

You get atleast 3 forma for free from Nightwave anyway and on top of that with the challenge they also relesed a new prime and 2 new weapons and Plague Star ended not that long ago. Just because you are one of the many lazy long-time players who always cry becasue they have to do something for rewards doesn't mean the rest of the community don't need to forma stuff. I have everything formad atleast 4-6 times and I don't cry because I need to forma something in fact I try out new and different builds that needs forma so its a win-win... you act like as a player who don't have hundreds of forma or resources to craft them btw. 

Finally someone that is  not complaining is the same with the gild challenge everyone complains as if they are MR27s with all the zaws moas amp and kit guns build and mastered is ridiculous 

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2 hours ago, [DE]Rebecca said:

Regarding the Gild challenge, we have removed it from any future weeks so it won't appear again this Series.
As for your bug... we will look into that.

Bravo. Was starting to think the dev team wasn't listening, or were a little sadistic. (now, pretty please, reconsider the Forma-remove and Ayatans down to 1, since Maroo's can be essentially guaranteed as a weekly activity, but the rest boil down to RNG or trading. I have enough that it'll likely never bother me, and would be easy inventory checks, but that's all it is, or a major hassle for others.)

(as to the bug, I encountered it several times in past weeks, though not during the current Season. This was not because I hadn't relogged in after the Nightwave went live, it was almost always even after the Sunday daily reset, after I had gotten my login rewards. Just to help pinpoint what's going on. I'd complete a challenge, Nora would praise me, and then I'd return to the orbiter, and it would not be complete. Happened at least 3 times, at least twice with dailies - once the bullet jump act, once the kill a certain number of enemies, and I was playing solo.)

 

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