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Nightwave + alerts removal feedback

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DE: "We listened to the feedback and implemented it to season 2"

 

1st week challenges: "Gild a modular item" and "use 3 Forma"

 

Yeah, no, you guys didn't listen... 😠

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45 minutes ago, Drivrius said:

DE: "We listened to the feedback and implemented it to season 2"

 

1st week challenges: "Gild a modular item" and "use 3 Forma"

also the day trader mission is as boring as you are going to get..

the 10 syndicate missions could be quick if you get like capture etc. if not oh god 10 mins survival and what not.

Terrible missions missions. the only 2 the were missing ( fill sculptures and do 3 days of sorties(i hate that one personally))

Was quite hyped about the new season and the changes the were coming with it but with this.. i would rather not even bother to play this week.

Also,i might be crazy or something but i feel like the rewards are worst then they were in season 1. 

Robotic slots,really ? wtf - Nora stencil (yeah ca'z i want more docration for my ship that nobody will ever visit or see (unless you are like a twitch streamer)

The sugatra looks ok i guess,but it's such a small thing and is almost non existent in combat/gameplay unless you are looking specifically where the damn thing is mid combat.

2 rewards are exclusive just for noggles witch i don't care at all. since it's the same thing as with the other ship decoration.

The k-drive thing that you apply (idk what's called ) it might look cool but meh it's a thing you are only going to care for maybe 10 mins.. and then you will forget about it.and also why are you using k-drives,instead of archwing ?

Operator cosmetics.. look great but you rarely just stay in operator mod to look at how cool you have customized it. Not even when fighting eidolons,also most of the time you are just energizing dash for energy, for like 1 sec.

The creds ? are quite worthless really,nothing to buy nothing specially new,the only things that i could care enough to get are the new ephemera and the umbra forma the rest are either complet worthless or not just stuff that i already have to many of.

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Spoiler
On 2019-07-04 at 8:41 AM, Xepthrichros said:

Honestly they should not be designing the game around these people. You are catering to literally the people that cannot or will not play the game. If they cannot find time to play 30 minutes a day, does that mean everyone who can play 30 minutes a day has to stop for their sake? The tasks already are so short and if it is made any shorter, might as well scrap nightwave tasks and just put a bunch of 3 minute youtube videos. You watch the videos and cash in on the rewards. And I just threw out 30 minutes as an average play time. You can cut it to 10 minutes a day on weekdays and make up for it on the weekends with 2 or 3 hours to finish up the rest. Whatever it is your schedule is. If you literally cannot play even 10 minutes a day, and cannot play at all for weeks and weeks, then you should just don't play and do whatever it is that is more important to you in life. And if feel you are missing out then too bad. This is what live service games are like. I joined warframe in late 2017 and missed all the operations and events that happened before that, including pre-reworked warframes, the void key system, and perhaps things which could be relevant to appreciating the lore or limited time cosmetics etc. and that's all there is to it. I just had to accept I will never experience those things cos this is how live services work. And I will just have to work harder for vaulted primes or wait for their vault to be unsealed or pay the plat to other players for them. But by the logic of catering to those with no time, I guess since I cannot or didn't play, the game shouldn't have progressed and waited for me to play? Pfft. It's a live service game and I knew what I signed up for. 

Also, the tasks are so short and easy to do - thanks to the attempts at catering to people with no time, and somehow this attempt at catering is still not good enough and it has to be shortened further, that after you're done, say on Monday, in one 5 hour session, you can just shut off the game and it's over for the whole week. Even for those with time to play or want to play, there is little incentive to play and more reason to be bored. Trying so hard to cater to inactive players that you now hurt the active player's enjoyment of the game. It's no surprise that more and more WF youtube content creators have begun making videos of other games lately too, since there's nothing left to do. Besides, Nightwave was not really content to begin with. It's just what you usually do in the past, but now you are reminded they exist, like how some people would ignore Simaris or Nightmare missions until nightwave pointed them at it, and the rate at which you earn a reward is changed (to be slower, imo). No new challenges or anything. They are not even like the Riven tasks that require some extra steps to accomplish. That being said, if there are nightwave tasks available and rewards from them, then there is at least some semblance of a thing to do.

Which is also one of the crappiest decisions made by DE.

The random alerts gave people a reason to log in and wait around, and see what comes up. People with a lot of time can be rewarded. People with no time but are savvy enough to refer to those Alert tracking websites for whenever alerts popped up can just log in whenever a convenient time coincided with an alert reward they want, get a mission done quickly and get the reward. These random alerts can let a person get around 1 potato or more a week, now the potatoes are earned much slower with the nightwave credits and you have to dedicate the credits to them and forego other things you may want like the alt helmets, mods, etc. (not that I have that problem anymore since I got all the alt helmets but too bad for you all, especially new players, who didn't get those helmets). But now with this intermission in particular, after tier 15, you literally are done with the game. No rewards. No point to even hang around and wait to see what RNG drops by since no random alerts. 

I will take old Alerts back any time of the day. But since we are stuck with this nightwave, there should be at least some credits given out after tier 15.

 

Putting that in a spoiler just because its so long. and i dont want this post to take up people's entire screens

Here's why people hate how long it takes to clear nightwave that you don't seem to understand. Not only does it force people to spend more of their time on warframe than they might like to, but it forces them to spend that time exclusively on what nightwave wants them to, instead of progressing in areas they want to focus on. There is A LOT to do in this game. I'v played for a little over a year, but quite an exessive amount. quickly surpassing just about every friend I have that's been playing the game a year or more before I did. One of them is even a founder who plays fairly regularly. Yet I still have so much left to do I don't even know what to go for next, and I'm barely keeping pace with new content releases.

Additionally, and this might be a foreign concept to you, there are other games besides warframe. Most gamers don't just wanna play one game all the time. Often they have huge catalogs of games they enjoy. This is why warframe's "play as you want" style is, or WAS, so incredibly appealing. It let gamers go off and play games they wanted to, and come back to warframe when they felt like it. Nightwave pressures you into not just playing the game constantly, but also in the way that IT wants you to play, and that's broken what was one of the biggest appeals of the game for many people.

The only ones inconvenienced by making nightwaves less time consuming and forceful are the devs, because they lose that active player count. Not having anything to do in the game is only a problem to people who literally don't have anything else left to do in the game. Mastered every weapon, got every available cosmetic, mod, and arcane, done hundreds of hours of just dumb fun things to the point that you're just bored of it. If you're one of the people who have gotten to that point. Calm down. You've completed the game. Go play something else while you wait for more content. Watch some videos, go do a physical activity, make something, anything. It's fine, Warframe isn't your whole life and it definitely shouldn't be. No one should be complaining that there isn't content in a game for them to waste hours on every day forever. There's more stuff you can do, should do. The game being better for more casual players is only a problem if you want it to be. But the inverse of that definitely IS a problem, at least to the players.

All that said. Going back to where this discussion started. I do actually agree that intermission should've had prestige credits. That system dosn't hurt anyone, and only benefited players that still need items from the cred offerings.

giving players an indication of minumum standing needed to be earned per week to guarantee reaching the final rank so they don't stress over it would be a GREAT boost to peoples opinion of the system. Even just giving the actual runtime of the season so players could calculate this for themselves easily would be a massive improvement.

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Recently it was mentioned DE is trying to limit the FOMO (Fear Of Missing Out)... however nightwave fundamentally is an engine designed to play on FOMO. It uses rewards that are timed exclusives to draw players back to do a repetitive task that they may very much be getting tired of. At the core of the problem of nightwave I think is that it is time limited, and exclusive.

From a developer and investor perspective this looks fantastic because playtime numbers skyrocket, however many of these (in some cases all of these) hours are spent doing annoying, slow, repetitive, and sometimes tasks that are down right against what a player should be doing for their account progression. (3 forma for a player who has forma'd everything, gilding weapons when they have mastered them all already are some examples of how this wastes a players time and resources for a minimal reward)

From a new player perspective (followed two newer to the game friends around) they never got past seventy percent of the nightwave due to their day jobs, much less finish it, and it drastically slowed their progression down and all of the friends they were playing with no longer wanted to play with them because they were too busy trying to complete nightwave, rather than get through farming or story like the new players were focused on. This effectively alienated the newer players in my friend circles. These new players didnt care for the nightwave much, and were slightly bummed out at missing the rewards, but that was fine, to both of them.

From an end game players perspective, this is a horrific system. Nightwave gives the one thing an end game player cares for: cosmetics. This on its own would normally be fantastic, however when combined with being time limited, and forcing a player to do tasks that they have done potentially hundreds or thousands of times before just by playing the game, does burn them out. EVERY END GAME PLAYER I KNOW AND SPOKE TO HATE THE NIGHTWAVE because it forces boring and repetitive tasks onto the player that is the most likely to get burned out from the game and want to take a break, only to punish the player that takes a break to come back to enjoy the game later by not allowing them to have the one thing left for them to do in the game - get more cosmetics and customize their account.

As a note from the end game guys I have been talking to, three of them are world of warcraft veterans that have been playing since release and only quit three years ago, and currently play path of exile, every season. It is my belief that if after about four months of something players like that are commonly tossing around phrases like '$%@# nightwave' 'nightwave sucks' 'I dont want to play warframe' ' and 'nightwave is &%#$', wanting a revertion to the old system, you have failed to truely do what you set out to do. You have increased playtime, however it is time a player is misserable. The goal is to make a system to make players want to play. these words are important. Want to play. Currently the system makes players do what they feel they must do or miss out on the one thing in the game they have left to do (cosmetics).

Now for the difficult part, trying to offer feedback as to how to fix the issue. Currently the issue I see overall is its burning out players faster than ever before, while not allowing them time to come back to the game later when refreshed because of the fear of missing out. The only way I know of to make this system not burn people out is to remove the exclusive items, or remove the time limitations. Burnout occurs when a player is pushed to do things they dont want to do, or to do them faster than they want. For this the only solution I see is to make the rewards you can aquire from nightwave more desired, possibly add repetetive farms a player may be optionally interested in like nightwave credit reward purchases like boosters, kuva, or raw resources. including all resources that are new will also allow a player to farm in an alternitive way to enable them to prevent their own burnout. this must be balanced for time spent farming either way to make it roughly equivilent, and just allow what is preffered. provide the player options. cosmetics in the nightwave are not out of the question, but should make returns for players who need a break. perhaps added as a tactical alert once annualy to get what you missed that is not otherwise farmable, or to have exclusive to nightwave items always in the credits section at a high price, but not too high that it is not feasable to catch up after taking a break.

Fixing this system is really quite a challenge, as it is a system other developers use specifically to boost numbers and play on peoples fear of missing out on their favourite game. For the reasons above, I have personally decided to quit warframe as I am an all or nothing kind of guy that values his time. If this all gets fixed I would love to get back into the game, however at the current state, even with the latest teasers for railjack and new war etc at tennocon, I just dont see myself making it there before I burn myself out completely and never want to touch warframe again, all the while hating the nightwave. The whole thing has drained me of my desire to play even other games, and I find myself rathing to go for a walk than to sit and play a game because I know at a certain point i will go do daily login, etc etc, and be shown the nightwave i would be missing out on. Please, fix nightwave so it lets people come back in a few months and catch up.

-Chaos

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Posted (edited)

Nightwave still has its most glaring issues intact and is still deeply frustrating/tedious compared to old hop-in-and-play-a-little-bit alerts or sorties. The FOMO and amount of ranks to climb is as discouraging as ever. For the same reasons as before, I stopped looking at Nightwave entirely. It isn't fun nor a pleasant experience.

Edited by Oaxs
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Posted (edited)
13 hours ago, Chaos_Rifle said:

Recently it was mentioned DE is trying to limit the FOMO (Fear Of Missing Out)...

I need to point out that the FOMO is completely irrational, and completely results from the player being ignorant of just how much Nightwave standing they're ultimately able to collect over time.

I've said it numerous times in this thread: I work 50-60 hours a week. The only time I actually sit down to PLAY Warframe, with rare exceptions, are weekends. I did not do EVERY Nightwave Act, as many of them simply did not appeal to me. I would log in on the weekend, play for a few hours, and complete whatever Acts I felt like. I hit rank 46. I could've done WAAAAAY less, and still got every reward.

I will log in to Warframe, and then think to myself "Huh... what should I do?" Then I go check the Nightwave, and pick something to do, because I have little else that I could do.

I approach Nightwave with the mindset of "Well, I guess I have something to do for once." Not the mindset of "OH GOD I HAVE TO GET EVERYTHING I MUST PUSH HARD AND GET ALL THE THINGS!"

It's design is VERY casual friendly.

Edited by DrakeWurrum
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12 minutes ago, DrakeWurrum said:

I need to point out that the FOMO is completely irrational, and completely results from the player being ignorant of just how much Nightwave standing they're ultimately able to collect over time.

I've said it numerous times in this thread: I work 50-60 hours a week. The only time I actually sit down to PLAY Warframe, with rare exceptions, are weekends. I did not do EVERY Nightwave Act, as many of them simply did not appeal to me. I would log in on the weekend, play for a few hours, and complete whatever Acts I felt like. I hit rank 46. I could've done WAAAAAY less, and still got every reward.

I will log in to Warframe, and then think to myself "Huh... what should I do?" Then I go check the Nightwave, and pick something to do, because I have little else that I could do.

I approach Nightwave with the mindset of "Well, I guess I have something to do for once." Not the mindset of "OH GOD I HAVE TO GET EVERYTHING I MUST PUSH HARD AND GET ALL THE THINGS!"

It's design is VERY casual friendly.

you are joking right?

This is one of the most casual unfriendly systems I have ever seen.

FOMO is UTTERLY rational, its not like umbra forma are easy to get. The devs even said, you need to do about 60% of the missions to get to the end, now the umbra forma isnt all the way at the end but its very close.

 

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glad some of the more annoying challenges were removed, but why did you keep the damn "gild" one? i'm ok with the forma 3-times one since there is still enough to forma in my arsenal - but i really don't need any more modular item since i already have every major combination (and also some minor ones too).

at least don't bring those up more than once or twice per season... pretty please?

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2 hours ago, Kconvey said:

you are joking right?

This is one of the most casual unfriendly systems I have ever seen.

FOMO is UTTERLY rational, its not like umbra forma are easy to get. The devs even said, you need to do about 60% of the missions to get to the end, now the umbra forma isnt all the way at the end but its very close.

 

no, it's not really casual unfriendly - at least it wasn't last time. i ended up with about twice the amount of standing in the end and only did a few of the challenges on purpose after i hit the rank 30 line (still, many challenges were done by just playing anything else in warframe). sure, those "very casual" players might still have a hard time to get the umbra forma, but keeping those who only play less than 6 hours a month in mind would stretches it a bit too far. and in the end, DE wants people to play the game - and herfore have to put at least some barrier to cross for those who want rare rewards.

if the new season will be as long as the first had been, i see no problem getting all rewards and a lot of potatos too (not that i even really need them). 60% to get to the end sure wasn't the case in the first season, else i wouldn't get so far... but then again, we had those buggers we could capture to get additional points - so far, i didn't saw any equivalent to them.

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I like the 10 syndicate missions challenge 'cause I can play standard missions and meet random players like in the old good days and this was the core of the game for me that was removed for I can't understand whatever reason. The other challenges of the week are a 💩 and I don't care about them, except Simaris maybe.

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5 minutes ago, KroneVanguard said:

I like the 10 syndicate missions challenge 'cause I can play standard missions and meet random players like in the old good days and this was the core of the game for me that was removed for I can't understand whatever reason. The other challenges of the week are a 💩 and I don't care about them, except Simaris maybe.

What makes the Syndicate missions different in this regard? You can just solo them, and honestly that's what I've been doing after I've had someone go ape when people tried to find all the tokens in missions designed just for that while they just wanted to get it over with.

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52 minutes ago, marelooke said:

What makes the Syndicate missions different in this regard? You can just solo them, and honestly that's what I've been doing after I've had someone go ape when people tried to find all the tokens in missions designed just for that while they just wanted to get it over with.

They are very similar to alerts and now there aren't many players interested in the medallions 'cause they are playing them for Nora Night. So, there is the old good feeling of the alerts: "jump in and enjoy the game" This is what i mean. 👍

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6 hours ago, DrakeWurrum said:

I need to point out that the FOMO is completely irrational, and completely results from the player being ignorant of just how much Nightwave standing they're ultimately able to collect over time.

I've said it numerous times in this thread: I work 50-60 hours a week. The only time I actually sit down to PLAY Warframe, with rare exceptions, are weekends. I did not do EVERY Nightwave Act, as many of them simply did not appeal to me. I would log in on the weekend, play for a few hours, and complete whatever Acts I felt like. I hit rank 46. I could've done WAAAAAY less, and still got every reward.

I will log in to Warframe, and then think to myself "Huh... what should I do?" Then I go check the Nightwave, and pick something to do, because I have little else that I could do.

I approach Nightwave with the mindset of "Well, I guess I have something to do for once." Not the mindset of "OH GOD I HAVE TO GET EVERYTHING I MUST PUSH HARD AND GET ALL THE THINGS!"

It's design is VERY casual friendly.

Having any part of your life that results in you not being able to play for the entire duration of a week even once, god forbid multiple times, sudently turns this "casual friendly" system into a daunting mountain that, with enough incidents, can become seemingly insurmountable very quickly. Medical incident, family or work trips, a natural disaster, unable to pay your internet bill immediately, anything happens to your provider, or hardware, house gets flooded, mold, fire, a pest infestation. The list of things that could occur that could quickly result in you being put into a position where finishing the season becomes impossible due to too much missed standing, is endless. If any of those happen, and you havn't been getting all the standing you can, you might as well just give up on the season entirely at that point. Wait for it to come back around again and pray that DE doesn't change the rewards. The lack of information on what will happen when a nightwave returns, and the prospect that, by virtue of a busy life or just a string of bad luck, outside of your control or anything involving the game, you'll be forced to fail the season, with no idea of if that reward will ever be made available again untill a full year later when the seasons cycle around assuming DE hasn't added any more by then, makes people stressed and feel like they have to pump out as much standing from the system as they can, and clear it as fast as possible to avoid that possibility. Is it irrational? yeah, absolutely. But have you ever met a single fully rational person in your entire life? I sure haven't.

It's for this reason that I absolutely hate, and find completely unacceptable, any time limited content in games like this whatsoever. it is simply, and objectively, an unfair and exploitative system

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Some of the worst mission from series 1 are still here. This blows. I'm glad I don't care about operator cosmetics as much as I do armor sets. Gonna pass on this series.

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Posted (edited)

So my feelings here and what needs to be removed

REMOVE

Froma 3 Items: Not everyone is able to Froma or wish to, forcing players to Froma, while smart to get them from makeing very poor builds, hurts new players the most and even Vets, as they either CAN'T find Froma yet or don't have any use for them.

Gild An Item: Vets have no use to building a item they already own, trying to get players to go back to X to farm X for Nightwave is unessercay. New Players can't even use them yet and it requires you being high standing on both sides.

Day Trader: Not everyone can Run Index, Solo is a nightmare and you have to find the pitch-perfect team to make sure no the other side not gets a SINGLE point, AN SINGLE.

Cetus/Vails Fisher/Miner: Most vets have everything they need and new players won't even have any good mining stuff in the first place. 

Ascendant: Same as Day Trader. Expect finding a team WHO WILL DO IT, is another story.

Hydrolyst Hunter: Same as Day Trader and Ascendant, Vets done it, New Players Can't. Reapt. 

Silent Eliminator: Just, No.

Hold Your Breath:  Vets done it, New Players Can't. Reapt. 

Grove Guardian: Players who haven't completed or have not saved their stuff, can not do it. Not everyone has clan friends or friend's

 

CHANGE/EDIT

Kill Amount X: An chore at best, in a massive team-play, YOU have to get the kills not anyone else, this causes bad feedback and bad coop experience. Go Solo, sure, good for you. Change it to 50/40/30/20.(Regardless of Elite/Weekly)

Supporter 10: No need to have that much, lower it down it to 5.

Don't Blow It: Same as Supporter, no need for 12, 10 is more acceptable.

Conservationist: 3-4 is more acceptable.

Earth/Venus Bounty Hunter: 3 is more acceptable.

Sortie Expert: 1-2 is more acceptable.

Night Terror: 5 is more acceptable

.

Edited by Circle_of_Psi
Fixed Nightmode Iusse
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Yeah Season 2 feels just like the 1st, which is a step back from the intermission. But either way NW has to go, it's not good for the game.

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Perhaps replace the gid/forma challenges with the riven reveal challenges and I do not mean reveal x amount of rivens in a week, I mean like - get 3 headshots from 100 meters away, protect defense objective for 5 waves without it recieving damage, etc. So nightwave is also improving the player base and semi-challenges the veterans.

What about rivens reveal ? personally I'd be fine with paying like 1000 kuva to reveal them from the start.

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11 hours ago, Circle_of_Psi said:

So my feelings here and what needs to be removed

REMOVE

Froma 3 Items: Not everyone is able to Froma or wish to, forcing players to Froma, while smart to get them from makeing very poor builds, hurts new players the most and even Vets, as they either CAN'T find Froma yet or don't have any use for them.

Gild An Item: Vets have no use to building a item they already own, trying to get players to go back to X to farm X for Nightwave is unessercay. New Players can't even use them yet and it requires you being high standing on both sides.

Day Trader: Not everyone can Run Index, Solo is a nightmare and you have to find the pitch-perfect team to make sure no the other side not gets a SINGLE point, AN SINGLE.

Cetus/Vails Fisher/Miner: Most vets have everything they need and new players won't even have any good mining stuff in the first place. 

Ascendant: Same as Day Trader. Expect finding a team WHO WILL DO IT, is another story.

Hydrolyst Hunter: Same as Day Trader and Ascendant, Vets done it, New Players Can't. Reapt. 

Silent Eliminator: Just, No.

Hold Your Breath:  Vets done it, New Players Can't. Reapt. 

Grove Guardian: Players who haven't completed or have not saved their stuff, can not do it. Not everyone has clan friends or friend's

 

CHANGE/EDIT

Kill Amount X: An chore at best, in a massive team-play, YOU have to get the kills not anyone else, this causes bad feedback and bad coop experience. Go Solo, sure, good for you. Change it to 50/40/30/20.(Regardless of Elite/Weekly)

Supporter 10: No need to have that much, lower it down it to 5.

Don't Blow It: Same as Supporter, no need for 12, 10 is more acceptable.

Conservationist: 3-4 is more acceptable.

Earth/Venus Bounty Hunter: 3 is more acceptable.

Sortie Expert: 1-2 is more acceptable.

Night Terror: 5 is more acceptable

.

I agree with the forma and gild challenges as those just seem wasteful (maybe change forma to 1 item), but the rest of your list would leave Nightwave with nothing left.

Why does it matter if new players can't do it? If a player doesn't have access to all the planets or finished all the main quests that is on them.

There will ALWAYS be a challenge someone can't do right then. If they really wanted everyone to be able to do everything Nightwave would be limited to inner planet missions only which would be boring and ignore 95% of the game.

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On 2019-07-08 at 4:52 AM, Kconvey said:

you are joking right?

This is one of the most casual unfriendly systems I have ever seen.

FOMO is UTTERLY rational, its not like umbra forma are easy to get. The devs even said, you need to do about 60% of the missions to get to the end, now the umbra forma isnt all the way at the end but its very close.

 

No, It's irrational, I didn't do everything for the first nightwave, I Hit rank 32 and then I left it alone as I didn't know how many weeks were left, it ran for 6 more weeks after I finished it. 60% is not much of every weeks activities. And they said that they were going to make it easier for people to hit rank 30 this time around.  Although given they said they listened to our complaints and gave us Gild and Forma tasks in the first week, I'll take that with a grain of salt.

The FOMO feeling people create for themselves is because they don't bother doing any maths in regards to how many points they've earned, and how many they need.

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The FOMO people have is fully rational.

Sure, if you can do all the acts, and just pick and choose the ones you like, or ignore the ones you don't, and can play all day, and have no concerns about your schedule, or potentially missing the opportunity to play for any given period of time... you have no concerns, no fear.

There are so many things that can make Nightwave a Nightmare for people, that if they don't do everything they CAN do, they realistically MIGHT not be able to hit rank 30 in their situation. You may have no problem, but some people could. To say that those people aren't being rational is applying your life situation to theirs, a lack of empathy, sympathy, caring about them.

Since the Nightwave system was supposed to be MORE forgiving for those with these odd life circumstances, allowing people to make progress toward the old alert rewards at their own pace, I find this extremely contradictory in the way Nightwave was set up with a deadline of expiring rewards and limited time availability of tasks to earn credit toward those rewards. The catch-up mechanic might as well not exist in its current form, as it still locks people out of missed acts if they can't complete one blockade act if they can't complete it (like if Defeat the Orb fight that needs max rank pops up again in any future week, and people don't have access to that fight for whatever reason, every act before that, that they missed, will be locked behind that one act until they can complete it... yeah... great. (not a problem for me, but for others, a BIG problem.))

So, with rational thinking, a person who can see themselves being unable to complete 60% of the acts, HAS to do every single act that they see, as soon as they can, because who knows what will happen in the future? They may not WANT to spend 3 forma on something, but now, FOMO, have to spend that forma for the standing, or else... can't just pick and choose to not do it because it's not convenient... until a person hits rank 30, and they can safely ignore all acts from that point forward, they can't safely ignore stuff and putz around doing only the acts they like... Nightwave takes priority and locks you in to doing its list of chores before anything else you have time to do that week.

Just because you don't have FOMO, doesn't mean others shouldn't, that it's not real, or that it's not justified.

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On 2019-07-09 at 9:32 AM, (XB1)Nightseid said:

Perhaps replace the gid/forma challenges with the riven reveal challenges and I do not mean reveal x amount of rivens in a week, I mean like - get 3 headshots from 100 meters away, protect defense objective for 5 waves without it recieving damage, etc. So nightwave is also improving the player base and semi-challenges the veterans.

What about rivens reveal ? personally I'd be fine with paying like 1000 kuva to reveal them from the start.

Additional note nightwave didnt just our daily alerts but also our random mission challenges. 

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19 hours ago, Bioness said:

Why does it matter if new players can't do it?

Nightwave replaced the Alert system, which assuming planet access was available new players could easily access for things like aura mods and Gift of the Lotus alerts (which I don't think I've seen one of since intermission started).

This means that something that used to be behind a simple area access is now behind various things like Profit-taker and Kuva Survival, which take time to even get basic access to, much less complete.

While DE did take a decent step forward with some Cred frontloading like I and many others suggested, there are still some questionable elements for both new players and longtime ones. One example oft-discussed in this thread being Forma/Gild being pointless for longtime players as they have done it all already so doing more is just a waste of time and resources.

DE is trying to appeal to a large crowd, but not by finding common ground between the crowds (New Mid and End tier players), but rather making smaller separate grounds for both which leaves none of them happy because many of the challenges will either be near impossible, boring or pointless depending on progress levels.

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5 hours ago, (PS4)AyinDygra said:

The FOMO people have is fully rational.

Sure, if you can do all the acts, and just pick and choose the ones you like, or ignore the ones you don't, and can play all day, and have no concerns about your schedule, or potentially missing the opportunity to play for any given period of time... you have no concerns, no fear.

There are so many things that can make Nightwave a Nightmare for people, that if they don't do everything they CAN do, they realistically MIGHT not be able to hit rank 30 in their situation. You may have no problem, but some people could. To say that those people aren't being rational is applying your life situation to theirs, a lack of empathy, sympathy, caring about them.

Since the Nightwave system was supposed to be MORE forgiving for those with these odd life circumstances, allowing people to make progress toward the old alert rewards at their own pace, I find this extremely contradictory in the way Nightwave was set up with a deadline of expiring rewards and limited time availability of tasks to earn credit toward those rewards. The catch-up mechanic might as well not exist in its current form, as it still locks people out of missed acts if they can't complete one blockade act if they can't complete it (like if Defeat the Orb fight that needs max rank pops up again in any future week, and people don't have access to that fight for whatever reason, every act before that, that they missed, will be locked behind that one act until they can complete it... yeah... great. (not a problem for me, but for others, a BIG problem.))

So, with rational thinking, a person who can see themselves being unable to complete 60% of the acts, HAS to do every single act that they see, as soon as they can, because who knows what will happen in the future? They may not WANT to spend 3 forma on something, but now, FOMO, have to spend that forma for the standing, or else... can't just pick and choose to not do it because it's not convenient... until a person hits rank 30, and they can safely ignore all acts from that point forward, they can't safely ignore stuff and putz around doing only the acts they like... Nightwave takes priority and locks you in to doing its list of chores before anything else you have time to do that week.

Just because you don't have FOMO, doesn't mean others shouldn't, that it's not real, or that it's not justified.

FOMO by it's very nature is irrational. It is an irrational fear. And because of it's psychological nature will never be rational. If you look at the Nightwave tasks and your immediate thought is "I can't do all of them so I must do all of them now," that is very irrational. it's also a paradox."I can't do all the tasks, so I will do all the tasks" is not something a rational person thinks. I never said it's not real, I agreed with the other person that is was irrational.  And it is.

Yep, I have all the time in the world to play Warframe which is why I've only spent maybe half dozen hours this week playing it, and only have 3 challenges left, 1 I will not bother with for sure.
 And 1 I may take a shot at this weekend. And I've even managed to do a couple of other non Nightwave related things too.

Right now it seems like there are 43500 standing from 7 daily, 5 easy weekly, and 2 harder weekly tasks. Now if it it runs for 10 weeks which is the minimum ( I think it was 12 and a half weeks last time and I think was wrong on the 6 weeks I ignored it, it was probably 3.) You can almost ignore the 7k tasks with only needing to do 1 of them during that 10 weeks. if you do four 4500 tasks and one 7000 task per week as well as the daily tasks you will hit rank 30 before 10 weeks is up.

Again, any form of FOMO is purely irrational. If you fell you are under the influence of FOMO, then you are not acting rationally.

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2 hours ago, Aldain said:

Nightwave replaced the Alert system, which assuming planet access was available new players could easily access for things like aura mods and Gift of the Lotus alerts (which I don't think I've seen one of since intermission started).

This means that something that used to be behind a simple area access is now behind various things like Profit-taker and Kuva Survival, which take time to even get basic access to, much less complete.

While DE did take a decent step forward with some Cred frontloading like I and many others suggested, there are still some questionable elements for both new players and longtime ones. One example oft-discussed in this thread being Forma/Gild being pointless for longtime players as they have done it all already so doing more is just a waste of time and resources.

DE is trying to appeal to a large crowd, but not by finding common ground between the crowds (New Mid and End tier players), but rather making smaller separate grounds for both which leaves none of them happy because many of the challenges will either be near impossible, boring or pointless depending on progress levels.

Alerts were also gated behind Planetary access, Kuva Fortress access, Void Access. Having Night Wave tasks that cater to late game access areas is no different than the alert system. 

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8 hours ago, (PS4)AyinDygra said:

The catch-up mechanic might as well not exist in its current form, as it still locks people out of missed acts if they can't complete one blockade act if they can't complete it (like if Defeat the Orb fight that needs max rank pops up again in any future week, and people don't have access to that fight for whatever reason, every act before that, that they missed, will be locked behind that one act until they can complete it... yeah... great. (not a problem for me, but for others, a BIG problem.))

This is one of my complaints with Nightwave. Fortuna has never run as well for me as PoE, ever since they fixed the black bars that some, including me, were seeing across the landscape. Fortuna continues to run so slowly and lag so much, for me, that I don't go there unless there's a challenge like this, and maybe not even then. I know that I will spend way too much time in loading screens, and that even then it might not run once I get there. (My computer might be old, but it runs PoE well enough to get by, so why is Fortuna so different?) So yeah, if stuff is going to be gated behind a Fortuna-related challenge, then I'm stuck.

A similar thing happened near the end of Intermission. I suppose it's nice that, when I finished the last week's challenges, I got a few of the previous week's unfinished challenges. However, when one of those was "complete three sorties," and Intermission was ending in a couple days, I was stuck anyway.

So I guess that's two separate complaints. One, if you're going to run events and challenges centered around a specific area of the game, then make sure that area works. Two, the catchup system is a decent effort, but doesn't really allow the access to past challenges that it's supposed to.

For purposes of comparison, regarding the catchup system: I play PUBG mobile semi-regularly. Their Royale Pass system has daily missions, which are available for three days before expiring (identical to NW's daily challenges), and challenge missions, which are revealed on a weekly basis and remain available for the rest of the season. Under this system, there's a timed gate on the daily missions, and on the season as a whole. However, there's a ton of freedom to complete the weekly-revealed challenge missions at one's own pace. And that's how easy it could be to minimize FOMO in Nightwave.

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