Too much whining from Youtubers and players

[(PSN)robotwars7]

that's why I don't watch Warframe Youtubers: my list of people I'd like to slap has had a backlog for a while now, and there's just no more room.

yes, the game has problems, and DE has done a few things weirdly recently, but they are actively trying to improve the game. more than can be said for most other developers.

 

Edited May 6, 2019 by (PS4)robotwars7

[HugintheCrow]

8 hours ago, (PS4)GEN-Son_17 said:

Not bashing anyone but simply giving my own constructive criticism.

Nothing you've written is constructive, unless you mean constructing your upvote number.

You're whining because people are whining, you know what does that make you? Exactly the same thing they are.

 

But I do agree, too many people whining about consumers using their right to criticize.

Edited May 6, 2019 by HugintheCrow

[sleepychewbacca]

1 minute ago, HugintheCrow said:

Nothing you've written is constructive, unless you mean constructing your upvote number.

You're whining because people are whining, you know what does that make you? Exactly the same thing they are.

But meta-complaints are the new forum endgame. 

I should complain about people complaining about my complaining about other people's complaints. 

[HugintheCrow]

7 minutes ago, sleepychewbacca said:

new forum endgame

That's what I said, this thread exists solely to farm upvotes, just like the generic troll baits of "Warframe Battle Royal" or "add auction house".

[YazMatazO]

To be completely honest here, I only want the gameplay. They can take their time with the rewards - I really don't care that much for them, there is enough available in the game, already. But what I'd like to see are more tools available for the enemies, making them able to approach combat from a different angle than just zerging the players. 

While I don't watch anything Warframe-related, the forums do seem to have a bit too much in the bashing department. 

[_Kiro]

Well... most partners who would do that are probably veterans who did everything there is to do in the game and if there's no content to show, there's no videos. The content creators I watch for the most part are already switching games. To be honest there's no real worry about them complaining, it means they worry and want to see changes.

It's a lot worse if they stop making warframe content and just move on to other games instead of complaining a bit (which is happening a lot too).

But, and sorry if I go off topic a bit, fact is the game has been on a content drought and, some people (me included), don't like some of the decisions DE has been making. A good couple of stuff regarding scaling, rewards, reworks, etc could be done but instead they focus on showing skins, new UI changes and the last devstream was basically done to say "new content is coming in a month". And sure, I can understand the problems with deadlines, lack of manpower on multiple departments, higher up decisions not being made on certain stuff, etc - I work in programming as well so I can imagine the stress when Steve said "Pablo's at home dying" cuz the poor man is probably working 12h a day to try and get stuff done.

But I can't understand the lack of general direction on updates lately. It's like DE is releasing stuff on a rush cuz the community doesn't get satisfied with anything. But DE must also realize that releasing content the way they do lately isn't gonna fly in the long run, all the time gating in the recent updates is clearly them trying to get more time to get stuff done to release OR heck, it's just them trying to get some time to get some friggin' rest.

I'm not here trying to play devil's advocate by the way and don't wanna go too much off topic but all this to say that:
- I can understand the frustration of some youtubers (and players) and the lack of content to show if you're a MR26-27 player with everything unlocked and nothing to do;
- I can only imagine the pain and frustration the devs must be feeling, and with Tennocon in the horizon... oh boy... ;
- Everybody who complains about lack of content can just find something else to do until the next big patch hits because, right now, complaining is basically screaming into the void.

Thanks for reading.

[FlusteredFerret]

2 hours ago, Ver1dian said:

1. Youtube deserves to burn at this point. Worse even, people are making more money than most worthwhile jobs all while being a waste of air.

2. People absorb youtubers attitude like a sponge and proceed to throw tantrums on mediocre issues.

3. When people are thought that they are special and unique they start overevaluating their oppinion and confusing it for fact, along with thinking that somehow a mass product should cater to their personal whim.

4. We in times where if complaining was an olympic sport, there'd be a good 1 bilion tied for 1st place, it's not exclusive to WF.

5. How bad can a game be, in which I've spent over 800 hrs and I still had enough to do for a 14h marathon?

 

Well said!

 

[Mez999]

I think it’s more an issue with today’s society. It’s quite depressing at times reading the forums and watching the YouTube (although some are absolutely fantastic and pump out truly detailed guides rather than constant opinion). 

It seems that people have lost the ability to go “I’m not keen but I’ll give it a go, make the most of it and see how it pans out”. Instead they instantly complain, quote that they are the voice of the majority, and shout down anyone that disagrees as a White Knight. These same people also want everything immediately and handed to them on a plate.

At the end of the day, this is a free to play game with a huge market which spans multiple countries and demographics. Their number 1 priority is to make money and, whilst I do believe they try and keep the community as a whole in mind, their decisions will be driven by this priority. I’d imagine most of the people getting upset are those that haven’t even paid any money into it, or very little at least. Before complaining, it’s worth thinking about why they’re doing this in the first place.

If you want to truly have your voice heard, get involved in an early access indie game otherwise best accept that you’re one of many people, all of whom have an opinion that they feel is the true opinion. 

To relate my now rather long winded post back to the OP - they have an opinion and they’re voicing it, just like you are doing here. If you don’t like it, unsubscribe. The more that unsubscribe, the more chance they’ll change tact. 

[SneakyErvin]

1 hour ago, Nation_X said:

So they use YT to voice their complaints and you have a problem with that?

You are using a forum to raise yours. People can have opinions on a game, its called being a consumer.

It would be one thing if they were just unsolicited gamers that spoke their mind, but they are partners. That means there simply are some things you dont do. They should just be more neutral or go directly to DE with their feedback. And Rio has been going on for a year now (or more) complaining about everything you can think of while also having the most click-bait titles to boot.

But going to DE and giving feedback directly without flashy click-bait titles and videos filled with complaining and hyperbole wouldnt give them alot of views.

I wouldnt mind if it was done in a video that didnt come from a partner, because that person, just like you and me, wouldnt have any obligation. The problem when it comes from a partner is that the view can easily be scewed to seem far worse than it actually is, because people go "Damn, if even a partner is this ticked off I better stay away". They wanted to be "E-Celebs" so they should really act accordingly and think twice before they go on a rantpage. They are afterall the influencers here, the face outwards for DEs product, the products that helps them (some) put food on the table.

[(XBOX)zThulsaDoomz]

You must be new here....

[Pinegulf]

Where I stand it seems that there people who talk about the game and then there are those who play it. 

[Genesix6]

They only post like one or two videos about something negative, then you found that somehow whining?

Warframe partner already said what issue on the nightwave, most of them particularly similar problem such as the FOMO in the nightwave, and the chore list that nightwave gave

[Sloan441]

11 hours ago, AndouRaiton said:

 

- no time-gating, no one likes waiting, let us fight the thing

 

That'll end well. 

[IntheCoconut]

It feels crummy to say, but I feel like many Youtube content creators are looking for money, which in and of itself is fine, but the way many of them go about it is disingenuous. They make click-baity titles, and they make sensational, bombastic complaints. And they do it because they know it gets people's attention, which means they get more views, which means they get more money/popularity. 

Not all content creators are this way, but unfortunately a lot are, which is why I just don't even bother any more. Stop using click-bait and actually discuss controversial topics because you genuinely care and aren't just looking to increase your subs.

 

[Lobosandia]

I mean, it really just comes from years of these people (this amorphous, generalized group of complainers, such as it is) raising issue after issue and hearing nothing from DE, not that DE has any reason or responsibility to answer (though it would be nice).

I have my gripes over this game for sure, but no where near the level of angst being thrown out by youtubers I've seen. I don't watch most of them though, just because I hate click bait titles with a passion and already refuse to listen to them if they use click bait. Honestly, I usually put their anger up to them overplaying the game and expecting too much without considering their own pacing.

DE as a gaming company is one of the best, by far, but also they seem to make a lot of weird mistakes that really puts their start-up roots on display. The frustrating lack of communication is part of this considering they are known for being very engaged.

[(PSN)guzmantt1977]

4 hours ago, HugintheCrow said:

Nothing you've written is constructive, unless you mean constructing your upvote number.

You're whining because people are whining, you know what does that make you? Exactly the same thing they are.

 

But I do agree, too many people whining about consumers using their right to criticize.

Whiteknighting for the complainers, while complaining about other complainers complaining? 

Oh yeah that's deep right there. Not constructive, but definitely deep. 

Personally I figure that everyone's got the right to complain about what they feel is a problem. I think many complaints are spurious and I also think that everyone should be able to respond to the complaints just like you did. 

[S.Dust]

I feel like there a bunch of reasonable post but those dont get the traction of a negative post. People will always remember the one bad thing you did over the ten good things. There are reasonable post but the same people liking this post shut those down. So what do people expect. As far as OP comment on how warframe partners do things I have to say I dont blame the partners for how they act. If the content isnt there for them to actually do things they will improvise, I also dont think they are trying to be controversial I think many of them are straight forward and consistent with their opinions. As far as good rewards go I think the rewards we as a community are looking for havent been created yet due to where the game lies difficulty wise; the developers of the game cant give us a power boost because the game is already struggling to deal with the warframes at all I mean look how many things lately have just had to be straight up immune to warframe CC or any other type of abilities. The base of the game needs a fix to start solving other problems but sadly this game is bad at multi tasking so we cant have things fixed as well as have content for people to play coming out.

 

Also this post if doing exactly what its complaining about it's creating controversy and calling out youtubers without giving good examples of any of them doing these things.

 

Edited May 6, 2019 by S.Dust

[EvilChaosKnight]

Nice meta complain, OP, but you are missing some very important factor.

Many people, me included, complain and bring up issues because we CARE about the damn game. We want it to become better and more enjoyable. Has this ever crossed your mind? Prob. not. I know you might now care about Hema research costs, scummy psychological tricks of FOMO and all that, but some of the players do. NW never went from "awesome" to anything because, well, it never was "awesome". Idk about you but I saw plenty of concerns about it starting week 1. By week 3 NW topics became basically daily, and many people managed to better articulate the issues. And what do you know, apparently plenty of these issues actually needed fixing. According to the last devstream at least.

In the end, though, while you might see others as "whiners" and "complainers", for me (and prob. plenty of others) "White Knights" and their forever happy La-La Land are infinitely worse for the game as a whole. Sweeping the issues under the rug and smiling happily will only get you this far.

[Autongnosis]

Il y a 10 heures, (PS4)GEN-Son_17 a dit :

I see Rio a bit differently. He has always been on that endgame mode so at least he's consistent but, judging from his reaction from the dev steam, he knows the player base isn't favoring the vets' complaints. The others were all over the place however and seem to be on the endgame bandwagon without detailing what scaling and endgame should exactly be. Since they're the "voices or celebrities" of the warframe community, I expect better. All of them actually prove the point of not really being on the same page. 

Rio has been doing sewer camping forever. I wonder how he can still stomach it when any half assed comp can go level cap while not camping behind 4 layers of invincible barriers and zenistar disks... 

Il y a 3 heures, YazMatazO a dit :

To be completely honest here, I only want the gameplay. They can take their time with the rewards - I really don't care that much for them, there is enough available in the game, already. But what I'd like to see are more tools available for the enemies, making them able to approach combat from a different angle than just zerging the players. 

While I don't watch anything Warframe-related, the forums do seem to have a bit too much in the bashing department. 

I agree. I don't really care about the rewards tbh. I just wish there was something harder to sink my teeth into right away. I just can't spend 2 hours dying if boredom before a mission becomes entertaining anymore... 

[Genesix6]

35 minutes ago, S.Dust said:

I feel like there a bunch of reasonable post but those dont get the traction of a negative post. People will always remember the one bad thing you did over the ten good things. There are reasonable post but the same people liking this post shut those down. So what do people expect. As far as OP comment on how warframe partners do things I have to say I dont blame the partners for how they act. If the content isnt there for them to actually do things they will improvise, I also dont think they are trying to be controversial I think many of them are straight forward and consistent with their opinions. As far as good rewards go I think the rewards we as a community are looking for havent been created yet due to where the game lies difficulty wise; the developers of the game cant give us a power boost because the game is already struggling to deal with the warframes at all I mean look how many things lately have just had to be straight up immune to warframe CC or any other type of abilities. The base of the game needs a fix to start solving other problems but sadly this game is bad at multi tasking so we cant have things fixed as well as have content for people to play coming out.

 

Also this post if doing exactly what its complaining about it's creating controversy and calling out youtubers without giving good examples of any of them doing these things.

 

 Well said

[rastaban75]

I find the game much more enjoyable when I have limited interaction with the community. I find that going to the forums too much or watching too many "meta" commentaries on youtube not very helpful to my personal enjoyment. Whenever possible, I will seek information in the driest way possible (i.e. wiki searches). There are times when personal views and biases, which everyone has, become too much and seem more like a barrier than help, and given that most of the comments focus inevitably on the negatives/problems it sometimes feels like I'm facing a wall of negativity, despite the fact that many of the negative comments have a core of being constructive, or at the very least, some good intentions. I believe this sense of "whining" comes from this.

Notice I'm talking about limited interaction, not complete lack of it. I think it's up to the player to find a good balance of playing the game and seeking comments about it. I have taken youtube videos out of my daily diet of Warframe mainly because I don't want views from people who have skewed perspectives due to the resources and time they have available for this game; I don't really want the "meta", I'll have the regular experience first, thank you very much.

[Valiant]

39 minutes ago, S.Dust said:

I feel like there a bunch of reasonable post but those dont get the traction of a negative post. People will always remember the one bad thing you did over the ten good things. There are reasonable post but the same people liking this post shut those down. So what do people expect. As far as OP comment on how warframe partners do things I have to say I dont blame the partners for how they act. If the content isnt there for them to actually do things they will improvise, I also dont think they are trying to be controversial I think many of them are straight forward and consistent with their opinions. As far as good rewards go I think the rewards we as a community are looking for havent been created yet due to where the game lies difficulty wise; the developers of the game cant give us a power boost because the game is already struggling to deal with the warframes at all I mean look how many things lately have just had to be straight up immune to warframe CC or any other type of abilities. The base of the game needs a fix to start solving other problems but sadly this game is bad at multi tasking so we cant have things fixed as well as have content for people to play coming out.

 

Also this post if doing exactly what its complaining about it's creating controversy and calling out youtubers without giving good examples of any of them doing these things.

 

I do wish they would take a break from creating  warframes for the time being. I still think they're running out of ideas and the abilities usually end up being similar to others. There's not much uniqueness going on right now and it's showing. 

I think they just like the idea of the asethic of new warframes and new effects and get carried away, forgetting how lackluster the abilities that come with them end up being. I mean how many more abilities can you end up having? It's just generally a mixture of different somewhat altered abilities from other frames now. Nothing usually new. 

[Softballbryan]

8 minutes ago, rastaban75 said:

I find the game much more enjoyable when I have limited interaction with the community. I find that going to the forums too much or watching too many "meta" commentaries on youtube not very helpful to my personal enjoyment. Whenever possible, I will seek information in the driest way possible (i.e. wiki searches). There are times when personal views and biases, which everyone has, become too much and seem more like a barrier than help, and given that most of the comments focus inevitably on the negatives/problems it sometimes feels like I'm facing a wall of negativity, despite the fact that many of the negative comments have a core of being constructive, or at the very least, some good intentions. I believe this sense of "whining" comes from this.

Notice I'm talking about limited interaction, not complete lack of it. I think it's up to the player to find a good balance of playing the game and seeking comments about it. I have taken youtube videos out of my daily diet of Warframe mainly because I don't want views from people who have skewed perspectives due to the resources and time they have available for this game; I don't really want the "meta", I'll have the regular experience first, thank you very much.

I agree

[(PSN)GEN-Son_17]

4 hours ago, _Kiro said:

Well... most partners who would do that are probably veterans who did everything there is to do in the game and if there's no content to show, there's no videos. The content creators I watch for the most part are already switching games. To be honest there's no real worry about them complaining, it means they worry and want to see changes.

It's a lot worse if they stop making warframe content and just move on to other games instead of complaining a bit (which is happening a lot too).

But, and sorry if I go off topic a bit, fact is the game has been on a content drought and, some people (me included), don't like some of the decisions DE has been making. A good couple of stuff regarding scaling, rewards, reworks, etc could be done but instead they focus on showing skins, new UI changes and the last devstream was basically done to say "new content is coming in a month". And sure, I can understand the problems with deadlines, lack of manpower on multiple departments, higher up decisions not being made on certain stuff, etc - I work in programming as well so I can imagine the stress when Steve said "Pablo's at home dying" cuz the poor man is probably working 12h a day to try and get stuff done.

But I can't understand the lack of general direction on updates lately. It's like DE is releasing stuff on a rush cuz the community doesn't get satisfied with anything. But DE must also realize that releasing content the way they do lately isn't gonna fly in the long run, all the time gating in the recent updates is clearly them trying to get more time to get stuff done to release OR heck, it's just them trying to get some time to get some friggin' rest.

I'm not here trying to play devil's advocate by the way and don't wanna go too much off topic but all this to say that:
- I can understand the frustration of some youtubers (and players) and the lack of content to show if you're a MR26-27 player with everything unlocked and nothing to do;
- I can only imagine the pain and frustration the devs must be feeling, and with Tennocon in the horizon... oh boy... ;
- Everybody who complains about lack of content can just find something else to do until the next big patch hits because, right now, complaining is basically screaming into the void.

Thanks for reading.

This is spot on. I can care less about upvotes or bash/counter bash, etc. What's important, as I said, is how to define and detail the direction players think DE should go. If the voices of warframe all say "we need better rewards" then please explain what a better reward is. Just saying that is simply wrong and only creates further complaints when DE's attempt to figure out that definition is ill received. If umbral forma isn't a good reward then I'm at a loss. Be less vague and more detailed. Use the YouTube platform to it's full potential and, even better, form a partner think tank with DE and even be beta testers. I'm quite sure Rio would love that opportunity.

[0_The_F00l]

you do realise people might enjoy something in the beginning but seeing the same thing over and over and over and over and over again can become frustrating.

Don't agree?

Set your favorite song as your morning alarm ,then talk to me in a few weeks.

 

But yes, most of the complainers will be the few that find it too hard (or cant cheese it) and the few that have been in the game so long that they already have everything and expect rewards that are better than the best thing they already have.

a player that still has stuff to discover will usually not complain as  hew will be happy to gain anything.