Arbitrations Revisited Part 2

[mikakor]

2 minutes ago, Kingdom_key599 said:

A 75%  reduction to the endo in arbitrartions might not be a good idea tbh.... SO with that said if we do some math, then we can calculate that 75%=0.75, so if we go with the 1,300 endo from Rotation A currently, and divide that by 0.75 we get a strange number of 1,733.3333333... but  for the sake of time we'll just use 1,733 instead.

if we then go 1,733 - 1,300 we get what we would be essentially getting in Rotation A  after the update of  433 endo per rotation A, leading to 866 endo for both rotation A's...

for a quick summery of the other two rotations here's what the endo would probably look like after words.

for rotation B, 1,600/0.75= 2,133 -1600 = 533, and for rotation C, 2000/0.75 = 2,666 - 2000 = 666 endo for the remaining endo...

this effectively makes getting endo not worth it in arbitrations in my honest opinions, as i like doing the Interceptions for quick and easy endo every rotation, Excavations are also nice but to me interception is more fun to play overall

if anyone wishes to expand on this math by all means go ahead. 

 

it's a 25% reduction, no 75. gotta do the maths again 😛

[WarriorSoundwave]

One big thing that would improve reward tables in general is getting rid of rewards that you only need 1 of and become useless after getting (mods, ephemera, etc...) and put them somewhere else. In this case putting them in the arbitration store would seem best and it gives Vitus essence more purpose.

[darkemplar8]

As the changes have not been made yet, the following is all just my opinion based on what I have read and NOT from the updated arbitrations:

1st quote:

5 hours ago, [DE]Connor said:

Each of the seven available mission types in Arbitrations has its own difficulty modifier. These were meant to add extra challenge, while leveling the playing field in terms of rewards. However, statistics show that we missed the mark: one mission type, Excavation, was a clear outlier in terms of reward output for time spent. 

We wanted to make all mission types feel somewhat equal in terms of rewards - this means bringing other mission types up to the standard set by Excavation, so you can play when you want, without feeling like it’s an inefficient use of time. We also wanted to address the feedback that the current extended reward rotations dragged missions out. 

Therefore, we are currently moving ahead with the following:

• All missions will return to regular rotation length EXCEPT for Excavation. Timers on excavators will be reduced to compensate, so all modes should be receiving rewards at a similar rate.
  • (Note: Disruption was already using single rotations because of an oversight, and will continue to do so with tweaks to reward structure as detailed below)
• The rotation cadence will be changed from “ABCCCCC...” to “AABBCCCCC...” So that the same level of time investment is encouraged.
• Endo rewards will be reduced to roughly 75% of what they once were (since you’ll be receiving rewards twice as often). Rare non-endo reward drop rates are unchanged - you’ll just get twice as many chances!
• Arbiter Drones will now have a small chance to drop Vitus Essence on kill.

With some fine-tuning, we’re confident this will bring other game modes up to the level of reward that players might expect from their Excavation runs. Getting Essence directly from drones also gives an incentive to take them down, making gameplay itself feel more frequently rewarding.

I like that each of the mission types are going to be more equal in terms of rewards/time spent. Seeing that mission times per reward will be reduced(supposedly by half, or being returned back to original 5min sur, 5wave def, etc), this means we now get rewards from drop table in half the time(supposedly). The following is a theoretical 

Arbi 1.0, defense 10 waves(9min hypothetical run), rotation C, 2k endo. Drops every 10 waves. Total is 2k.
Arbi 2.0, defense 10 waves(9min hypothetical run), rotation C, 1.5k endo. Drops every 5 waves. Total is 3k.
So less endo per drop, but we can get them more often so arbit feels less like a chore and more of a grind(*shrug*).
Meanwhile, arbi mod drop rates are unchanged, so we can get 2x the mods(more adaptation users yay!). Drones with a chance of dropping VE is a welcome change, and I would like to know the droprates as "small chance" isn't really descriptive enough. Oh well.

So far so good.

2nd quote:

5 hours ago, [DE]Connor said:

With more frequent reward cycles we’ve decided to include a few new goodies, adding variety to all the Endo and sculptures you’ll be earning:

• Five new Aura mods that follow a more Nightmare or Corrupted style! (Final numbers will be posted in Update notes.)
  • Verticality: + Aim Glide / - Damage Taken while Airborne 
  • Wicked Strikes: + Faster Charge Attack / + Combo Counter 
  • Loyal Herd: + Companion HP / + Companion Armor 
  • Bloodletter: -HP on kill for self / +HP on kill for Allies
  • Bladed Restraint: - Melee Combo on Self / + Melee Combo on allies 
• You can expect five new Warframe Arcanes as well!
  • On Rifle Kill: Melee damage increased by x for y seconds
  • On Melee Kill: Rifle damage increased by x for y seconds
  • On Pistol Headshot: x% ammo efficiency for y seconds
  • On Six Melee Kills: Heal companion by x
  • On Heavy Weapon Summon: Gain x armor for y seconds
• Drop tables will also include the occasional bundle of 5x Cyan Stars or 3x Vitus Essence.
• Kuva has been added to the Arbiter Offerings, for purchase with Vitus Essence.

 

New mods and stuff is always nice, but I'm kinda questioning whether some of these will be used or are ending up as......more "junk/filler mods." Verticality looks nice if adaptation/aero mods/patagium can be used simultaneously, Wicked Strikes for the charged weapons looks alright, Loyal Herd could be just a mod for companions instead of as an aura mod(or introduce companion aura mods so we can bring multiple auras into the game, but we can't have 2x corrosive projection on 1 player, for example. Or do, *shrug). Bloodletter......so are we taking damage when melee killing and diverting as health restore to allies, or are we not gaining health on melee kills? Or is this a melee health restore with the concept based on Power Donation? Likewise for Bladed Restraint. And since we're on this topic, having an aura mod that borrows Power Donation's concept of - on self/+ on allies and use the bonus as health/shields/weapon damage. So if you play a caster frame like saryn, you can reduce your weapon damage and up allies weapon damage.

Further comments on the new arcanes:
Rifle kill = +melee dmg and melee kill = +rifle dmg.....seems odd.....I guess this might work with Vigorous Swap builds, but......*shrug*
Ammo efficiency on pistol headshot could be nice.
6 melee kills = heal companion.....I guess that's nice? Maybe include a chance to revive a fallen beast companion?
Gain armor on summoning heavy weapon is nice, but we've other arcanes that already do that better. Unless for example we gain +1200 armor upon summoning heavy weapon from 1 maxed arcane, I don't see any reason to swap out my Arcane Guardian.
So we're now seeing a drop table diluted with 5x cyan star bundles? I need more amber stars, and cyan stars doesn't help(sitting on 3k+ cyan, around 50 amber, so *shrug*). VE diluting the drop table is nice, can help those who want more something(s) from the vendor. Although may I ask we can get kuva drops from arbitration?

3rd quote:

5 hours ago, [DE]Connor said:

These rotation changes also mean that Vitus Essence output from Arbitrations will be more than double what it is now (twice as many wave rewards, plus Vitus from drones and other sources). The Vitus prices in our store were based on the current rate of acquisition, so I’m here to offer fair warning for our plans:

• When these Arbitration reward changes go live, the price of goods in the Arbiters’ reward manifest will increase by about 50%. 
• When the update is released, we will also run a script to increase players’ existing Vitus stockpiles by an equivalent amount. If you had 2 Vitus before the update, you’ll have 3 after! 

This is a rough guesstimate on VE per hour that we had before. OG arbit, we get about 1 VE every 10minutes roughly(unless you played excavation) or 6/hr. Since mission durations are halved, we now will get 12/hr roughly. Throw in the fact that we can expect to see drones to drop VE, and that VE can come as a bundle of 3 in drop tables, it'll be roughly 12 drops an hour(some of them can be VE). So we'll see a minimum of 12 VE an hour. Quite a bit of inflation here.
Meanwhile, to compensate that inflation, VE prices from vendor are raising by 50%....well, we'll see what happens to archgun rivens...

Opinion on the whole shebang: Looks like a solid arbitration update, and I hope this isn't going to end here as it can still always use some polishing/improving(higher enemy levels, more enemy variety/elite enemies with abilities that aren't nullifiers, maybe have assassin type enemies spawn in at higher than the existing mob levels as "mini-bosses" to hunt down specific players).

TL;DR Looking forward to the upcoming changes that are to come and are coming #PrimedSoon

 

[Uhkretor]

1 hour ago, Voxiz said:

It's however disappointing to see that you're not removing drones.

Drones are there to teach how to prioritize targets... besides, they explode and it damages everything within range. And now~, that's pretty much the only thing that differs Arbitrations from everything else. If they take it out, they're taking out Arbitrations' sense of purpose.

8 minutes ago, I.V.A.R.A said:

what is the end goal there?

... It isn't to let people reach lvl 4000+, that's for sure.

8 minutes ago, Kingdom_key599 said:

A 75%  reduction to the endo

I thought it was specific... "Reduced TO 75%". Its a 25% reduction from where it is right now.

[Koalachan]

It seems like a ton of drops to dilute the pool that should rather be in the store for currency. That being said, I am not really invested as I will not play Arbitrations until you remove Revives. The new loot also seemed to be too far out in niche field. Now I like niche builds but none of it seemed good enough to even remotely compete with current options.

The rebalancing of mission types seems like it'll be sorted which was needed but the move towards reviving and not even addressing the considerable feedback that asked to get rid of it seems to indicate that you are set on considering this a good mechanic. It's really too bad, the game is in dire need of challenging content and you initially sold us on Arbitrations to fill that need. I know you can't please everyone all the time but it feels like you could at least have given us Arbitrations as hardcore content while everything else is quite pedestrian.

[Kingdom_key599]

3 minutes ago, mikakor said:

it's a 25% reduction, no 75. gotta do the maths again 😛

it says right in the notes bruh

5 hours ago, [DE]Connor said:

 

• Endo rewards will be reduced to roughly 75% of what they once were (since you’ll be receiving rewards twice as often). Rare non-endo reward drop rates are unchanged - you’ll just get twice as many chances!

so really im technically not wrong sooo...

[Urlan]

I appreciate the heads-up, but I don't feel that this addresses the problem of the game mode's poor rewards reducing those rewards effectively. The mods might get a short lived fevered increase in numbers, but I can't see folk sticking with the mode for effectively less value to their earned Vitus and endo returns. I am curious, at what rotation are these new mods/arcanes intended as that would greatly determine if these should be considered for rewards at all, or be akin to Xyphos for Sabotage instead.

[vFlitz]

1 minute ago, Kingdom_key599 said:

so really im technically not wrong sooo...

Reduced to 75%, ergo reduced by 25%.

So many people are failing on reading comprehension here.

[Uhkretor]

5 hours ago, [DE]Connor said:

Endo rewards will be reduced to roughly 75% of what they once were

 

How much %% do you take from 100% to get 75%, @Kingdom_key599?

[Xerachiel]

Remove the REVIVES DE!
That's the real reason people don't give a crap about arbitrations

[Kingdom_key599]

Just now, vFlitz said:

Reduced to 75%, ergo reduced by 25%.

So many people are failing on reading comprehension here.

wow ruude lol

[tigerpup]

I'd rather endo rewards be removed entirely by rotation B or C. We get enough endo from the Ayatan statues anyway.

[Kingdom_key599]

Just now, Uhkretor said:

 

How much %% do you take from 100% to get 75%, @Kingdom_key599?

im just using a solid 75% to calculate im just assuming that the numbers could suddenly change sooo...

[Damocles]

5 hours ago, [DE]Connor said:

• Five new Aura mods that follow a more Nightmare or Corrupted style! (Final numbers will be posted in Update notes.)
  • Verticality: + Aim Glide / - Damage Taken while Airborne 
  • Wicked Strikes: + Faster Charge Attack / + Combo Counter 
  • Loyal Herd: + Companion HP / + Companion Armor 
  • Bloodletter: -HP on kill for self / +HP on kill for Allies
  • Bladed Restraint: - Melee Combo on Self / + Melee Combo on allies 
• You can expect five new Warframe Arcanes as well!
  • On Rifle Kill: Melee damage increased by x for y seconds
  • On Melee Kill: Rifle damage increased by x for y seconds
  • On Pistol Headshot: x% ammo efficiency for y seconds
  • On Six Melee Kills: Heal companion by x
  • On Heavy Weapon Summon: Gain x armor for y seconds

Verticality- Cool, I just need the aim glide part
Wicked Strikes- Probably the only thing in here I want
Loyal Herd- Lul, Scott messed up companions being able to equip sentinel health mods. FYI linked anything on lowest hp frames > health mods on highest hp companions
BloodLetter- Cool niche cases, for a masochist
Bladed Restraint- Strictly worse Wicked Strikes

Rifle Kill- For melee damage?
Melee Kill- For rifle damage? (Yo swap these! and also did you mean primary weapons? what if I use a shotgun or sniper?)
Pistol Headshot- For efficiency? What does this mean and what does this do for Knell?
Six melee kills- You mean worse than Rank 0 Pack Leader? 🤣
On Heavy Weapon summon- Good day to be a Rhino main, unless it's less than 600 armor per Rank 3 arcane

 

5 hours ago, [DE]Connor said:

• Drop tables will also include the occasional bundle of 5x Cyan Stars or 3x Vitus Essence.
• Kuva has been added to the Arbiter Offerings, for purchase with Vitus Essence.

3X Vitus Essence- I'd rather get 1-2 Amber star(s)
Kuva as a reward- inb4 10 vitus essences for 150 kuva, pretty generous!

[Drachnyn]

vor 5 Stunden schrieb [DE]Connor:

EDIT: We hear you loud and clear Tenno - Cyan Star bundle has been removed.

But why not make it amber star bundles instead?

[(XBOX)Cryoguard]

I'll try the new auras for sure, but I gotta say... the main reason I don't play it anymore is that the forced revive burden was massively unappealing for me. And while I can play it solo if I choose, it would be nice to play publicly without the revive mechanic.

I do want to ask, why are there no dedicated servers for missions like Arbitrations and Elite Sanctuary Onslaught? The revive mechanic was supposed to end host migrations, but it felt like a band-aid solution. Of course, I understand if dedicated servers for those mission types are beyond your resources, but surely there has to be a better solution than the revive mechanic that was implemented.

[(PSN)Quantaminum]

I'm gonna leave this here, because way too many people are having trouble with the Endo reduction.

https://forum.wordreference.com/threads/to-reduce-by-to.1146164/

 

[InsanityGeo]

please put seeding step ephemera in the vitus essence shop and remove it from the drop tables

you want people to earn an ephemera? thats how you do it

not thru RNG

[Khlorgg]

Please add arbitration info to worldstate api. Mission type, enemy, and location would be great.

[r0ckwolf]

Hi, 

some Feedback for you Guys: 

The Rotation changes seem perfectly fine to me and are headed in the right direction. It´s indeed annoying to feel like only Disruption or Excavation is worth doing time wise. So that that is changing seems really cool! 

The new Rewards however completely and utterly miss the mark in an spectacular manner!!!! 

Yes i want new mods and yes i want new Arcanes, but these Rewards will be useless once i get them the first time and just dilute the Droptable. 

Arbitration is the most fun gamemode for me as a Veteran, because it´s difficult and offers a good chunk of evergreen rewards in the form of Endo and a small chance for Aura Forma. 

In my opinion all none Evergreen Rewards should be removed entirely from Arbitration. The Reward-Pool should exclusively consist of Endo, Kuva and Forma. For the Mission to stay attractive to me as a Veteran, i need Evergreen-Rewards. Something i always need in large quantities. Endo and Kuva are the main Ressources that come to Mind here and should be the Main Focus in the Droptable. Forma, Exilus Adapters (crafted), Aura Forma, Catalysts and Reactors are also attractive, but could be a much more rare Reward. 

If this Trend continues, that Arbitrations will have a massively diluted Droptable, with Rewards that are only interesting the first time you get them, i can already say that i won´t be playing them anymore after i get the Rewards once. The same goes for everybody i know who is a Veteran in Warframe. 

sincerely 

r0ckwolf 

[Zoh_Veldae]

Seems ok, but isn't increasing the Vitus cost of stuff at the shop just gonna require additional effort to farm it and basically not changing anything?

Also, if you're adding more Mods and Arcanes to the Arbitration drops, wouldn't it be better to distribute them equally to each mode? Having them all at the same time will just bloat the drop list and reduce our chances of getting what we actually want. If you distributed them to each mode, we'd know to go farm more intently on that specific mission to get what we want. A set of the mods only dropping on Defense Arbitrations while another set only on Survival Arbitrations, etc.

On a final note, this wording "On Heavy Weapon summon", I'm not really feelin' it be adequate for this type of game. Maybe "On Heavy Weapon deploy" just to fit better with the sci fi theme? Just nitpicking now.

[Uhkretor]

18 minutes ago, r0ckwolf said:

i can already say that i won´t be playing them anymore after i get the Rewards once. The same goes for everybody i know who is a Veteran in Warframe.

I'm a vet and I used to run Arbitrations just for kicks. If DE gets rid of the revive system completely, I'll run them again just for kicks.

Right now, I run them just to piss off people by not reviving, I completely disregard the rewards on purpose, just to transform someone else's bad day into a worse day and from there, into a worst day ever, by turning their fights into death traps, and I do that just for kicks too.

... Don't take me wrong, I like to help... But I'm godlike at ruining someone else.

[Chroia]

Auras:

6 hours ago, [DE]Connor said:

Verticality: - Damage Taken while Airborne 

Titanias and Hyldrins gonna be happy about this.

 

6 hours ago, [DE]Connor said:

Wicked Strikes: + Faster Charge Attack / + Combo Counter

Nice, but heavily niche as long as armor and/or Damage 2.0 modifiers remain unchanged.

 

6 hours ago, [DE]Connor said:

Loyal Herd: + Companion HP / + Companion Armor 

Barring extreme outliers, pure stats don't work as a survival mechanism in level appropriate content.
Also, competes with Corrosive Projection/Growing Power. See above comment.

 

6 hours ago, [DE]Connor said:

Bloodletter: -HP on kill for self / +HP on kill for Allies

Interesting tradeoff.
That said: Allies = Warframes? Or does this include companions/sentinels/Rescue Targets et al.?
Because, assuming player-actors only, I'm not sure what the intended use case for this is - off the top of my head, the only self-healing tool that doesn't come with a team heal I can think of is Life Strike, which, last I heard, was broken by Melee 2.999.
An arbi-capable player slumming with newbies, maybe?

 

6 hours ago, [DE]Connor said:

Bladed Restraint: - Melee Combo on Self / + Melee Combo on allies

Interesting tradeoff.
That said, see above re: armor, Corrosive Projection.
We'll have to see what Melee 3.0 brings, I guess.

Warframe Arcanes

6 hours ago, [DE]Connor said:

• On Rifle Kill: Melee damage increased by x for y seconds
• On Melee Kill: Rifle damage increased by x for y seconds

To incentive weapon swapping, I get it.
Given that it's a post-arbi-preq reward, I don't see a use case for it, though; beyond (potentially) prebuffing vs. a boss with minions.

 

6 hours ago, [DE]Connor said:

On Pistol Headshot: x% ammo efficiency for y seconds

I like this in theory, but in practice headshot kill (detection) is finicky against most enemies.

 

6 hours ago, [DE]Connor said:

On Six Melee Kills: Heal companion by x

A Warframe Arcane slot is a lot more costly than a companion slot, and Pack Leader exists.
Also, see above note re: stats as a defensive mechanism. e.g. Moas, despite their ability to use the Link mods, are the squishiest companion-type precisely because stats are their only defense.
Kavats are agile (and have Tek Assault/Reflect/Mischief), Kubrows also move around (when they're not trying to attack something -_-), and Sentinels move with the player.
Moas... don't.

 

6 hours ago, [DE]Connor said:

On Heavy Weapon Summon: Gain x armor for y seconds

Edit: Assuming the purpose is the let the player survive deploying the Archgun, given how Damage 2.0 modifiers work, I'd much prefer actual %DR or invulnerability.

[ProfessorGava]

5 hours ago, [DE]Connor said:

look, the reason why no one were killing the drones was because they give us burdens, not because they don't give rewards. We don't want to have to carry leeches in arbitration that's meant to be the "endgame" for warframe. in your current system, you are rewarding noob/ new players that would leech off of the good/ veteran players because they do not have a solid build yet, and that's why no one wants to play it. They don't want to get punished for playing with a person who is new to arbitrations and dies all the time. There are only 2 ways you guys can fix this. 1. you entirely take out revives or 2. you keep revives BUT you TAKE OUT the burden aspect of it that gives you negatives for killing drones.

 

[Ascythian]

Ever consider putting universal medallions in Arbitrations?