Arbitrations Revisited Part 2

[MunsuLight]

Please dont dilute the drop tables with arcanes and new mods.... and you should think about removing Seeding Step from the rotation. 

I kinda like the new changes but you shouldnt even reduce the endo number. Endo isnt tradeable and it only helps in maxing mods... 

ALSO. PLEASE , the Arcane for companion life steal is utterly useless... Pack leader is more than enough (primed pack leader was a mistake because even a normal pack leader is more than enough )

[Totterson]

Next we need to talk about "timeliness of delivery" for updates like these, because leaving content to rot in a bad state for a year before doing something about it (Plains, Arbitration, more examples pending) is not good for the game.

Thank goodness otherwise. It was bad enough waiting two and a half hours for Eidolons to come out of the lake, now I don't have to wait two and a half days for an ideal Excavation or Disruption to pop out of the ether at a time when I'm not at work because all of the missions bar Defense are gonna be good now.

[HollowVRC]

7 hours ago, BiancaRoughfin said:

Nekros going Healer now? :3

Also Garuda's passive just got that much better and more consistent.

[(PSN)LoisGordils]

3 hours ago, Midas said:

5x combo multi for 3 damage immune revenants or inaroses with slash dash support excal, In like 2 minutes.

You're clearly not understanding. 

[JawNuts]

How about addressing the leechers that enter the mission and die like every minute or so.

Why do the good players need to be "Burdened" because other players keep dying?

I'm fine with the revives, but the burdens need to go.

13 hours ago, [DE]Connor said:

• All missions will return to regular rotation length EXCEPT for Excavation. Timers on excavators will be reduced to compensate, so all modes should be receiving rewards at a similar rate.
  • (Note: Disruption was already using single rotations because of an oversight, and will continue to do so with tweaks to reward structure as detailed below)
• The rotation cadence will be changed from “ABCCCCC...” to “AABBCCCCC...” So that the same level of time investment is encouraged.
• Endo rewards will be reduced to roughly 75% of what they once were (since you’ll be receiving rewards twice as often). Rare non-endo reward drop rates are unchanged - you’ll just get twice as many chances!

So let's say we used to get 1k Endo from rotation A that lasts 10 mins. Now we will get 250 endo in the 5 min and 10 min mark which adds up to 500 kuva. Half of what we used to get. What? What's happening? Does DE think we're dumb? 

The emdo rewards are fine, just don't dilute the loot table pls DE

 

Lastly, seriously can't wait to use that Bloodletter mod on Saryn..

[Destiny2Captain]

Title of the thread should be renamed to endo rewards will get nerfed in arbitrations.

[DonOctavia]

I personally do not need any of these mods or arcanes, and probably will not play arbitration anymore.

[---.CCC.---TradeFrame]

Absolutely horrible changes.
I don't care that you are making rewards double for C rotations (which you get after about 15 mins of play)
I don't care that you are adding these new aura mods.
I do care that you are diluting my endo farm.

8 hours ago, [DE]Connor said:

so I’m here to offer fair warning for our plans

I read that as "I'm here to offer fair prices" and thought of Baro.

This is utter crap.
There was no need to change the price of items, it finally depends on the how much effort + time the player is putting in.
Can there be changes WITHOUT accompanying nerfs?

I mean, seriously, what did you guys think when you were offering cyan star bundles?
Or was that a planned rollback, to satiate and to show players that DE is listening to us?

You are diluting the endo farm tables, with mods that should have PURCHASABLE USING VITUS ESSENCE.
Have you seen the prices of Vigorous swap / Rolling guard? They are less than 10p now.
Adding those 5 aura mods to the drop tables means 8 mods in the drop table, WHICH REDUCES MY ENDO / SCULPTURES.
Do you not understand how many ppl want endo/sculptures instead of crap mods, which let me repeat>
should have PURCHASABLE USING VITUS ESSENCE

Make the drop tables cleaner and let us farm vitus essence + Endo.
Remove the RNG from this ONE activity.

[--DSP--strikeBandit]

Please, please, please don't reduce the endo reward amount. Adding more rewards into the drop table is bad enough.

[slai47]

Put those arcanes as a drop from the Loli on Saturn. Give us reasons to frame that. Don't diluted the drop table as its already going to be diluted enough with these changes.

[dogbus]

1 hour ago, JawNuts said:

So let's say we used to get 1k Endo from rotation A that lasts 10 mins. Now we will get 250 endo in the 5 min and 10 min mark which adds up to 500 kuva. Half of what we used to get. What? What's happening? Does DE think we're dumb? 

Reduced TO 75%. So, if 1k endo was the original payout, youd get 750 instead, but get a chance at it twice as often. 

They really should reword that or put in an explainer, a lot of people seem to be misreading it.

Other than that, I like the proposed changes, except the mods/arcanes should be in the shop as not to dilute the reward tables, as others have pointed out.

[Mogrol]

The only thing I see here in regards to the updated drops is filler content and nothing that anybody would find rewarding at all.

[(PSN)cdzbrbr]

9 hours ago, xXMadneXDXx said:

75% less endo? That can't be right. I understand that you want to make an equilibrium... but with a 75% less endo ,considering the ocassional 2000 endo , we would get like 500 endo and that's not worth the effort to be honest, at least for me. If I were to play Arbitration even with the long rotations It was for the endo which runs pretty fast when you like the Riven meta thing (7k ish) or just minmaxing your builds with a prime mod (40k ish). I agree with the endo reduction but not like this... 75% is a high downgrade I feel like a 50% is totally fair. This is just my opinion, please consider It DE.

You can`t read english and got 16 upvotes from other people who i can only assume can`t read either, no wonder i question myself when i come to these forums every time.

It's been reduced TO, T-O 75% NOT BY 75%, jeez.

[(PSN)Deeceem]

Hm. Let's start with the good: streamlining the reward frequency to be on par with Excavation is the right step. Most Arbitrations are a drag and indeed felt like wasting time in comparison to Excavation. Good on you!

Adding more rewards. Perfect, new reasons for me to go there aside from stockpiling Vitus Essence and building Amber Stars and the occasional Adaptaion and Endo injection.

The bad: Sadly I still will avoid playing any Arbitration in a public squad. The revive mechanic is annoying. Each time a public squad member dies it becomes a dodge fest in order to NOT collect the revive orbs. I might be on a frame that isn't fit to handle the negative hp, maybe the squad member was so bad I'd rather not revive them or what have you. I personally liked the instant death mechanic better (however, I liked that you turned up the enemy scaling and such). I'd be okay with it if the debuff wasn't a thing, I suppose.

Zitat

Bloodletter: -HP on kill for self / +HP on kill for Allies

Considering it's an aura: does this also apply vice versa for my squad mates, if I am carrying the aura? In other words: does it force others to deal self damage if they get a kill? If so, that needs to be changed. Being able to make others lose HP to heal you is not only the perfect leecher tool, but in general crap. Imagine Equinox instantly killing herself when using Maim, because a squad member carries this aura. However, if the negative HP affects only the carrier and the healing only the carriers allies - basically like Power Donation - this seems fine. A bit "why?", but fine. I don't see a great use to heal my squad, if I'm already killing all the enemies. It's the same issue as with Harrow's - whatever the ability's name was, Thurible? - where giving your squad energy is useless if you already kill everything as well or you don't do anything with it except sacrificing your own energy to charge it up if you don't get any kills. It basically would be a babysit aura at best. Potentially good for sustain depending on the actual functionality and numbers when ran by an entire squad, maybe?

Zitat

Verticality: + Aim Glide / - Damage Taken while Airborne

Verticality seems like a staple on Hildryn and Titania and maybe on an aimglide/headshot challenge Riven build, that's pretty much it.

The ugly: The rest of the items seem like collector's items to me and nothing I'd use. Corrosive Projection (and a few other auras) are simply better in pretty much any situation. Unless the entire damage system - or more to the point: armor - is addressed these auras are once again "whatever" to "okay, I guess" rewards. Don't get me wrong, I'll still go get them, but bleh. To have them - not because I'll use them. Why aren't these things on the vendor in the first place?. In fact why are some of these auras and arcanes tied to one of the latest to unlock game modes anyways? They seem like items a newbie would be really happy to get their hands on in some easy fashion (maybe as a junction reward) and to use for a while until they can replace them with the better ones - not a seasoned player. In the case of arcanes some of them seem more fit to teach newbies what arcanes are early on rather than something a regular player aspires to get their hands on (unless they have nothing else to do, like me...).

Adding Kuva to the vendor is okay. But the Riven system itself is still a mess. I know it makes plat move like crazy, but for the love of god it has been long enough. You want late game goals for veterans? Rivens have the potential as layed out in the past by many people by now. Currently they are the late game lottery with one of the most unsatifying feelings this game has to offer: the feeling of having spent 80+ minutes farming Kuva and getting nothing out of it after wasting all rolls on a Riven without getting any improvement on it (I guess I rolled it to increase its Endo value, because I clearly want to turn it into Endo. That's why I started rolling it, right?).

Having the Ephemera still on the rotation is a huge oversight. Same goes for Exploiter-Orb and ESO. Once you got them they are absolutely dead rewards since you can't do anything even remotely useful with them. Make them tradable or finally remove them from the drop tables entirely and move them to their respective vendors. Blazing Step to Simaris, Shocking and Freezing to Vox Solaris and Solaris United and Seeding to Arbiters. I got all of them except the Shocking Step one and I'm still advocating for this to remove dead rewards from the rotations and to make untradable "prestige" items not solely luck dependant. Even better, make them rewards for challenging tasks ala Prodman as your initial idea for Ephemeras suggested.

I know, it's a pretty salty response, but sometimes it seems like you're not playing your own game past a certain point or in certain scenarios that invested players crossed  and saw multiple times already quite a while ago and it can get a bit annoying at times to see what changes this results (or doesn't result) in.

[Peter]

17 hours ago, [DE]Connor said:

 

• On Rifle Kill: Melee damage increased by x for y seconds
• On Melee Kill: Rifle damage increased by x for y seconds

 

After so long without new arcanes you come up with this, sorry but if this is going to be one of the rewards you are wasting your time and effort, I understand that you are trying to encourage the weapon swap but honestly this is redundant and will fall in oblivion quickly.

If I want to increase the damage of the rifle I use a rifle arcane, and the same for melee, doesn't it make sense for you to put on arcane that do exactly the same thing but in reverse, did you run out of ideas?

 

17 hours ago, [DE]Connor said:

• • On Pistol Headshot: x% ammo efficiency for y seconds

Another example of redundancy, sorry but no one is going to use it, even if you force some secondary in the future to say "look you'll need it" I can't see anything useful or impressive, do you want everyone to run away from Arbitration?

17 hours ago, [DE]Connor said:

• • On Six Melee Kills: Heal companion by x

There is a certain mod that causes me to heal my pet 100% in a single attack, sorry but that seems teasing.

17 hours ago, [DE]Connor said:

• Verticality: + Aim Glide / - Damage Taken while Airborne 

Can we stop with Aim Glide mods please?

17 hours ago, [DE]Connor said:

• • Bladed Restraint: - Melee Combo on Self / + Melee Combo on allies 

Cool, + 1 of the 1000 melee auras, could we have good auras for primary and secondary? they exist too.

17 hours ago, [DE]Connor said:

• • Loyal Herd: + Companion HP / + Companion Armor 

Oberon has it, and guess what? It's useless, your pet dies anyway, doesn't add any noticeable layers of protection.

17 hours ago, [DE]Connor said:

• • Bloodletter: -HP on kill for self / +HP on kill for Allies

Stop using this "more for allies and less to me" method, if we use auras is to benefit ourselves and our build.

 

Sorry, the changes are good, but these new items are disappointing, especially since we haven't had new warframe arcanes since raids, i know you have more creativity than that.

 

Also please, remove the Arbitration drone, there is no point in build warframes if you can't use skills, this is too artificial.

[-Augustus-]

No. Put all this in the vitus essence shop where it belongs. 

[osairas]

11 hours ago, [DE]Connor said:

 

• All missions will return to regular rotation length EXCEPT for Excavation. Timers on excavators will be reduced to compensate, so all modes should be receiving rewards at a similar rate.
  • (Note: Disruption was already using single rotations because of an oversight, and will continue to do so with tweaks to reward structure as detailed below)
• The rotation cadence will be changed from “ABCCCCC...” to “AABBCCCCC...” So that the same level of time investment is encouraged.
• Endo rewards will be reduced to roughly 75% of what they once were (since you’ll be receiving rewards twice as often). Rare non-endo reward drop rates are unchanged - you’ll just get twice as many chances!
• Arbiter Drones will now have a small chance to drop Vitus Essence on kill.

Reducing rotation length by 50% but endo reward reduced to 75% dont feel justice since you are diluting the rewards table. Keep the endo rewards same as it is so people who are really playing arbitrations for endo can extract when they receive enough amount they need to max their mods or at least introduce legendary fusion core which is only exclusive to sorties right now.

[JawNuts]

1 hour ago, Vaeldious said:

Reduced TO 75%. So, if 1k endo was the original payout, youd get 750 instead, but get a chance at it twice as often. 

They really should reword that or put in an explainer, a lot of people seem to be misreading it.

Other than that, I like the proposed changes, except the mods/arcanes should be in the shop as not to dilute the reward tables, as others have pointed out.

That makes sense. I feel dumb now

[HeartPurity]

Just get rid of that revive system already. When it is the fifth time he/she is down, like seriously, why are the rest punished for reviving a useless burden? Should add a button "F" to pick up the shiny things instead of auto pick up, then people can choose when is the right timing to revive instead of getting half hp when surrounded by enemies.

[Kouden]

10 hours ago, Gabbynaru said:

So, just cause you get good drops means everyone else does as well? Sorry my dude, it's 1 per day for me. If it's 2, it's a miracle.

I mean heck, they could use the 5 amber stars pack to make up for the decreased endo rewards, because at least that way we can actually sell the statues to Maroo instead of having them collect dust, cause there's never enough amber stars to fill them.

i never said that everyone might have such luck on the amber stars. sure there are days when i find only 1 aswell bust mostly its atleast about 2-3 per day. but i fully agree that they should put a 5 amber stars pack in the reward table rather than cyans and those useless new mods

[DojikkoVoidNinja]

Here's an idea for Ayatan Stars and shield drones...

 

Instead of putting them in the rotation, why not give the drones a smallish chance of dropping cyan and amber stars, since the rotation drops a lot of statues to put them in? Obviously the reason the community overwhelmingly reacted negatively to putting them in the rotation was because it further dilutes the rewards people are there for, but drone drops are an ideal place for single stars to occasionally drop at a rate sufficient to at least partially fill all the statues people are getting in Arbitration, without lowering the chance on anything else.

 

Another thought for drones: Maybe give them an unusually high chance of dropping heavy weapon ammo, to help give archguns (which the rivens for are behind this game mode) another potential niche in high-end play? Maybe even a special drop that not only refills ammo but gives a brief buff to damage and perhaps armor penetration so that archguns don't get out-scaled as quickly and are good for taking down the now-exposed other enemies? 30-60 seconds perhaps? Maybe have the buff timer start only once your archgun is equipped? Though, realistically, because of enemy scaling, a permanent, stacking, small buff dropped by each drone might be a very worthwhile option here.

 

Also, consider changing the wording of "Endo rewards will be reduced to roughly 75% of what they once were (since you’ll be receiving rewards twice as often)." to "Individual endo rewards will be roughly 75% of what they once were (since you’ll be receiving rewards twice as often and getting around 150% of previous endo income total)."

[(PSN)ACIDIC_SlN]

I think they mean that we will get 75% of what it is currently. If my match serves me right we will only loose 25% of the current earnings, for example Instead of 2000 endo we will get 1500 endo.

[niutp]

The unnessesray mods dillution can be solved with them being in the arbitration shop. Yeah, having universal-gamemode currency is kinda boring and defeats the purpose of droptables/balancing/rng. But it may not be a terrible decision for some content.

I do still think arbitration's priority is endo and vitus essence with the Adaptation/Rolling Guard being essential utility mods.

[Last_Shot-13]

how about instead if taking out cyan stars u guys should replace them

[Baterial]

12 hours ago, [DE]Connor said:

Wicked Strikes: + Faster Charge Attack / + Combo Counter 

[Happy Redeemer Prime noises]