Blink nerf and railjack archwing gameplay.

[PsiKO911]

I personally was a fan of rolling and looping. It felt a lot more gracious and fulfilling than being locked on two axis.
Right now the best way to describe the archwing after this update is... basic.

Sure, for manouvering while hovering is perfect, but it feels lackluster overall. Like it was said above, needing to pivot on two axis, compared to simply following the target naturally as before, does not feel comfortable at all.

Wish we were given back the option to enable the experimental flight model. Minus the extended awkward gliding after letting go of the movement / speed boost keys. That could be cut in half. I don't want to come to a complete halt after travelling at full speed the moment I let go of the W / Shift like it is now, but slowing down to a halt for a second in the direction you were last headed would be nice.

Edited November 23, 2019 by PsiKO911

[Zarokka]

A thing that is bad about that change is that you have to release sprint -> loosing momentum -> tab sprint for the blink -> hold sprint again, this is not fluid and clunky.

A different button for the blink would be good, maybe tab on Jump or Crouch

[shut]

26 minutes ago, SpringRocker said:

Imagine a target flying above you, it passes overhead, and you track then chase. Old control allow you to follow it, new controls require pivoting on 2 axis THEN make a 180 as it goes over.

This new system is not an "actual flight system", it's running around in the air.

I mean, you're not wrong, but I don't see this as a problem. Every Archwing map in the game (including space, and especially in open world) has a clearly defined up/down orientation, and all enemies spawn / move / are oriented accordingly. It's basically just Warframe's usual level design wearing a space flight costume. So, it should use a movement system that's well-suited to such a design-- i.e. running and jumping, but wearing a space flight costume.

Warframe is very fast-paced and has always been characterized by sudden, sharp changes in direction and speed. Archwing is no different, which makes the slow gracefulness of "rolling" and "banked turns" and all that jazz VERY unsuitable.
Unless literally every aspect of Archwing is fundamentally rebuilt from the ground-up to accommodate a flight-sim-like playstyle (including map, mission, and enemy design), giving it flight-sim-like controls would never work out well.

Edited November 23, 2019 by SortaRandom

[Dr.Pepper23]

Ripline for any archwing is just terrible... Especially for Itzal.... 

Not sure what DE was thinking for this and also the blink cooldown; nerf to eidolon hunts.... 

[SpringRocker]

2 minutes ago, SortaRandom said:

I mean, you're not wrong, but I don't see this as a problem. Every Archwing map in the game (including space, and especially in open world) has a clearly defined up/down orientation, and all enemies spawn / move / are oriented accordingly. It's basically just Warframe's usual level design wearing a space flight costume. So, it should use a movement system that's well-suited to such a design (i.e. running and jumping, but wearing a space flight costume).

Warframe is very fast-paced and has always been characterized by sudden, sharp changes in direction and speed. Archwing is no different-- meaning that unless literally every aspect of Archwing is fundamentally rebuilt from the ground-up, giving it flight-sim-like controls (6DOF and all that) simply wouldn't be suitable for the game that it's trying to play.

I've never noticed an archwing map having an up or down, that's the point experimental flight negated that. You could even keep looking up indefinitely, changing your orientation. Now if I want to chase something above me I need to make weird little rapid 120 degree turns.

The controls were simple, intuitive, and well suited. Now it feel like running around chasing stuff with a noclip code.

[MPonder]

9 hours ago, Chappie1975 said:

Considering how few people do 6x3...optimizing the game for a a fraction of a fraction of a percent it quite foolish.  Get over yourself.

Yep, let's optimize for the noobs, makes sense.

[Aadi880]

2 hours ago, 8faiNt said:

'' Blink + Itzal-Archline is the fastest mode of travel now. ''? what? lol.. it got nerfed not buffed. Hello from world.

Double Shift+1. See it for yourself.

[Sylonus]

10 minutes ago, SpringRocker said:

I've never noticed an archwing map having an up or down

I don't think you've been playing the same game we've been playing.

[Hovansc]

Overall, I think the changes that were made to archwing are positive.  I like how when you stop applying thrust, momentum stops.  This gives a lot more control over your position.  It also makes a lot more sense, given the nature of the warframes.

That said, it works poorly with the new universal blink.  When you release the shift key to tap for the blink, you lose your momentum.  Additionally, the ability works a little inconsistently - sometimes not activating at all.  Maybe work thrust more like Gauss's dash.  Press the shift to activate the thrust, Holding W will maintain momentum until released, then just tap shift while afterburner is active to blink.  One change at a time, but I'd also suggest maybe compromising with us a little and cutting the cool down timer by a third or in half.

The new rip-line ability is also a little iffy.  For example, if you're aiming downward at an enemy, and you miss, instead you grab the ground and pull yourself in.  I'm not sure how to fix the problem here.  I also didn't notice any damage in my initial trials on the plains, so I'm not so sure it will be useful in space based missions.  I will be trying it out before making final judgements, but my initial assessment would be to replace it with something else.

Itzel is supposed to be of a time/space theme, so maybe a haste like Volt.  That would also allow the system to keep some of its mobility and even share it with the rest of the team.

[SpringRocker]

33 minutes ago, Sylonus said:

I don't think you've been playing the same game we've been playing.

The only way you know which way is "up" in archwing maps is if you had a locked roll. "Experimental flight" mode just allowed all axis (yaw/pitch/roll). It was removed this patch (though I always thought regular flight had roll as well).

With 3 rotation-axis if I turn you upside down, your "up" is in a completely different direction. No offense, but when was the last time you played an archwing map before this patch?

[DerDzvero]

1 hour ago, -STR-TheGresta said:

İm kinda new in this game and the eidolon fight is realy fun.Trying to do 5x3  6x3 in 1 night so i used 4 forma to my itzal to travel faster.And it got nerfed today.Now its useless. Thanks.

Same situation. I'm sick of playing a shopping simulator with timegates and constantly fight with bugs and stupid design decisions.  Enough is enough.

[Sylonus]

Really? Almost every enemy flies with one orientation, all objectives have one orientation... I play these missions all the time as I'm helping new players. Even when you could orient yourself in any direction almost everything else was oriented in the same directions.

[AdunSaveMe]

1 hour ago, SpringRocker said:

This new system is not an "actual flight system", it's running around in the air.

Which is what the old system was, except more awkward and terrible. Being able to flip the camera over doesn't change that.

And I didn't say it's an "actual flight system", I said "the closer we get to one, the better".

[SpringRocker]

13 minutes ago, AdunSaveMe said:

Which is what the old system was, except more awkward and terrible. Being able to flip the camera over doesn't change that.

And I didn't say it's an "actual flight system", I said "the closer we get to one, the better".

 

2 hours ago, AdunSaveMe said:

The closer we get to something resembling an actual flight system, the better. Nobody wanted the controls "dumbed down", and they haven't been, because they were never complicated to begin with. They were just bad.

3 Rotation-axis allows fluid moving and aiming relative to your environment.

2 Rotation-axis running in the air isn't getting closer, and is a simpler dumbed down flight control.

That's what I meant, it's actually getting further away. In the new control system you basically need to make rapid 120-to-360 degree turns any time something gets close to your Z-axis. Previously it was fine and you could actually "turn over" because you weren't restricted to only having 2 axis of rotation, that's what got dumbed down and went from flying to running in the air (same controls as walking).

Edited November 23, 2019 by SpringRocker

[Gaxxian]

To me, the new archwing system is S#&$.

Some people is liking it? Ok, its fine. Add an option to be able to use the legacy system for people that utterly hate this new "flight" controls.

[xDangerCatx]

Truely it's the "We can't agree on what power to give Itzal, so we'll give her the most useless one from a frame that's badly in need of a rework".  I think it has the same sound effect, too!

[LSG501]

7 hours ago, Trapkin said:

And that is the hard part. Players arent gonna be "happy" with any form of cooldown. Because as someone said already, you would not be in danger of anything with no cooldown. Can just blink until no missiles are following you. If all we do to avoid danger while in archwing is blink, should maybe remove all defense abilities on archwings.

Players wont be happy not even with a 1 second cooldown, cause well, too damn used to pressing 500000 times that blink key to go from point A to B in a second. Anything that doesnt get you in that amount of time to point B, will be considered a nerf.

Because it is a nerf and it isn't just the cooldown, the range on this blink is tiny too, I noticed it and I'm not even built for blink.   And to be fair, even Rebecca was complaining about the cooldown duration (assuming it wasn't just for show) during devstream.

My personal solution to the issue... do what I suggested which is essentially stick the old itzal blink onto number '5' (operator key) and make it use energy like before.   Nobody complained about the old itzal blink, it was basically DE Scott who had an issue with it, which in turn caused this nerf, and lets be real here I'm not even sure he actually plays the game outside of testing at work. 

[Guest]

Edit: Experimental mode with its free flight, has been removed. Enabling it was my personal choice.

Cursed with not being able to tell which way is up when flying in archwing? That's the way some people are wired, I suppose. Somewhat selfishly, I don't have that problem, because a lot of the time, it is not important.

I concur that some levels, particularly corpus ships, are geared towards specific orientations, but it should not stop you moving in full 360 degrees. Since the introduction of experimental mode, that has been our choice.

Experimental flight with the ability to fly anywhere, in any direction, and at any orientation, was fantastic. Having the marvel of flight constrained around an axis... just ugh.
Bring the freedom back, please.

My other concern is that this will this also affect RailJack; Taking away being able to manoeuvre and attack from all angles and orientations. 2D space combat? You might as well replace spacecraft with boats.

Edited November 23, 2019 by Guest
Feeding back my disagreement with the removal of experimental mode, in bold, for clarity. And those that feel the need to...explain. Lol.

[Aesthier]

I for one absolutely hate the new changes to archwing. I loved the floating of forward momentum of old. I don't know what has been going on recently but ever sine the melee update these changes seem to be less of new and exiting forward changes and more of backwards steps that are nothing but mistakes after mistakes.  I know DE has a vision that they are taking small steps towards and I really hope all these changes eventually play into that long term goal with real continuity. However for me it is becoming apparent with every new patch that their end vision is not a game I will enjoy or play.

I enjoyed warframe yet every patch they are removing the things that made the individual pieces of equipment cool to play with and normalizing all the individual traits into a normalized piece of sludge. "We think this weapon, frame, archwing, pet, has to much use so instead of adjusting the other items that don't we will just nerf every single trait that makes things different until all items function the exact same way but just have different looks."

 

That is not a game I look forward to spending my time in.

 

[Aesthier]

I for one really don't like the changes and would have preferred if the archwing portion of the patch had made it to the trash bin where it belongs before making it into the game.

Edited November 23, 2019 by Aesthier

[GruntBlender]

5 minutes ago, High.PlainsDrifter said:

Cursed with not being able to tell which way is up when flying in archwing? That's the way some people are wired, I suppose. Somewhat selfishly, I don't have that problem, because a lot of the time, it is not important.

I concur that levels, particularly corpus ships, are geared towards specific orientations, but it should not stop you moving in full 360 degrees. Since the introduction of experimental mode, that has been our choice.

Experimental flight with the ability to fly anywhere, in any direction, and at any orientation, was fantastic. Having the marvel of flight constrained around an axis... just ugh.
Bring the freedom back, please.

My other concern is that this will this also affect RailJack; Taking away being able to manoeuvre and attack from all angles and orientations. 2D space combat? You might as well replace spacecraft with boats.

 

The way the tile based maps worked, it was a 2D map you were flying around, you might as well keep a defined up/down. This limited 3D has much broader appeal since you don't have to rewire your brain for 3D navigation and constantly changing frame of reference you have in 6DOF.

[Shawm.Teamkiller]

Archwing using a HOOK  I'm sorry but still need to say "Who come up with that stupid idea??"

[Aesthier]

Ok so pure blunt honestly here. I really don't care for any of the changes they just made to Archwings at all.  If they wanted other archwings to get more use then simply put a blink "exactly" like Itzal's on every one. Not some junk version with a cool-down.

As for Kdrives, sure I occasionally hop on one just to do something different but the fact is I am not some pimpled 12 year old and I despise the vent kids and the races.

For a game that prides itself on do the content you enjoy however you enjoy it the last few patches have  had a ton of "removing" ways people enjoy the game.

 

Its not something that encourages me to continue playing.

[--K--Sharkfin]

DE... This is exactly the reason why I took breaks playing warframe from time to time ... 

Whoever came up with the new universal blink thing doesn't deserve any salaries

 

 

Edited November 23, 2019 by SHArK-FiN

[Circle_of_Psi]

7 hours ago, (PS4)Yes-Man-Kablaam said:

it's 3 seconds... 3 whole seconds oh no. We aren't going to get blink SPAM on every archwing we just aren't. IF anything maybe make a mod to allow for faster dodges much like we have for our ground dodges now with the amalgam mod because while it would be nice to maybe be fast it is in no way necessary it would be a luxury

This ^

They Fixed it, cuz people exploited it, DE don't want players to shift to the end of the map and back within a single keystroke, cuz that was game breaking. In my honest option, DE should remove the "No Energy Cost" and have it cost 50 to 100 each time you want to Blink. with an 5 sec cooldown.