Blink nerf and railjack archwing gameplay.

[Drachnyn]

vor 36 Minuten schrieb Iamabearlulz:

This is literally the definition of unbalanced. If one choice is significantly outperforming all others, that's not a choice, it's a handicap.

This is completely on DE because the only content they are willing to give to archwings is transportation. The regular Archwing missions are almost as neglected as conclave and JV doesnt exist anymore. Therefore the only use Archwings have is transportation. DE has made sure of that by nerfing the skywing versions of all archwing abilities compared to their space versions and introducing those BS anti archwing missiles.

And guess what: the other archwings are still useless. Itzal is still the only one with a way to vacuum in drops, is still the best at dodging the missiles and is still the fastest. 

"If one choice is significantly outperforming all others" in this case the correct solution is to buff all others up to match old itzal speed instead of nerfing them to a middle ground because all they are used for is transportation in the open worlds. Nerfing the itzal doesnt make the game better, it just makes every travel in plains and especially orb vallis take longer.

[Smilomaniac]

50 minutes ago, Iamabearlulz said:

This is literally the definition of unbalanced. If one choice is significantly outperforming all others, that's not a choice, it's a handicap.

No, it's not.

I understand what you're saying, it's the same argument that Scott made, that "you really don't have a choice".

Let me give you another example to put things into perspective:
Let's take a standard MMO like World of Warcraft. You get together with 39 other people, you grind consumables, you grind gear, you practice together and you finish off raid content that drops a legendary item, which one out of those 40 people get. This item is, for it's purpose, better than all other content in the game.

Is it unfair that it's the best? No, you earned it.
Do you have 'no choice' because you got the legendary and therefore can't use literally anything else in the game? Okay sure, but then what's the point of getting anything in the first place. This is nonsense.
Do other players have 'no choice' but to get the single best item, again for the purpose, behind the hardest content of the game? No, of course not, you don't need 'the best' to do things.

Now let's take the Itzal. Is it better for the purpose of traveling in the two open world maps than the rest of the archwings? Yes.
Does it invalidate the existence of all the archwings? No. They all have their uses and playstyles. There is other content that they can be used in.
Is the Itzal at all hard to get? No, with the exception of the Odonata it's as easy to get as any other. You don't need to spend months grinding out the content to get to it. In fact it's by far easier to get than a lot of other stuff, like a fancy K-board.

And again, my argument isn't that the other archwings can't be fast, as fast or faster, I think they should all put you where ever you want to be at any time. For my sake, go full HAM.
My argument is that pretending that this has ANYTHING to do with balance, is the argument of someone who fundamentally does not understand what balance means.

Read the rest of what I wrote and if you still don't get it, then there's no help for you. At that point you genuinly think balance means that everything is equal, in which case you shouldn't be playing video games, you should be playing chess or checkers where the only person you have to blame for losing or playing poorly is yourself.

 

[DoomFruit]

2 hours ago, Iamabearlulz said:

This is literally the definition of unbalanced. If one choice is significantly outperforming all others, that's not a choice, it's a handicap.

In this case, it means that all the other "choices" suck so badly that they're not worth considering. Itzal vs. everything else wasn't exactly a case of Catchmoon, where that one item allowed players to get through the gameplay faster. It was a case of Itzal allowing players to get to the gameplay faster.

If you want a handicap, how about forcing players to sit through a 2 minute "interactive" loading screen (aka. walking or skateboarding to the mission)? Boredom is an important part of gameplay, right?

[Steel_Rook]

6 hours ago, Smilomaniac said:

Was the blink "spamming" a problem? No. You broke it into this clownish sprint mashing that makes no sense.

Yes. Yes it was, in the same way that salmon-flopping everywhere on ground missions is a problem. It's a clunky unintended way to travel vastly disproportionately using one Archwing that none of the others even come close. If the intent was to allow players to get anywhere on the map instantly, DE would have implemented a fast-travel mechanic. Archwings might have ended up being used predominantly for transporation, but that doesn't mean they need to be instant.

[Bz9a]

Another crime

[Nezha_Rose]

Laughs in Zephyr*

Take my mobility away? Ill find mobility elsewhere. And I will continue to find mobility elsewhere because I will resume to play with my favorite style, fast. I already invested enough time on PoE and OrbVallis, I even barely touch them unless update reasons .

Frankly, I dont have reasons to be slow on them and sight see anymore.

Edited November 24, 2019 by Nezha_Rose

[fr4gb4ll]

i didn't use itzal much after amesha came out, but blink and cosmic crush were the best abilities of it (ok, i also liked using penumbra). even though i like having the ability to use it (even though far less effectively) with amesha too, i think that itzal should have no restriction (wait/reload time) or linking it again to its energy... maybe putting this into a 'passive' sort of ability.

blink is essential the same ability as the default void-dash of the operator - which is also energy based and also are used often for quick traversing (at least by me ^^)... imagine they'd put a cooldown to this.

conclusion: blink with restriction on every other AW is fine but let itzal get the unrestricted version back - with or without inproved range.

[Althaline]

8 hours ago, Smilomaniac said:

Is it unfair that it's the best? No, you earned it.
Do you have 'no choice' because you got the legendary and therefore can't use literally anything else in the game? Okay sure, but then what's the point of getting anything in the first place. This is nonsense.

It's not nonsense for there to be tiers of items. Sure, maybe you got a legendary, but it's balanced with the other legendaries on the same level to at least some extent. You yourself proclaim that Itzal is of the same tier as the other Archwings, therefore it should have pros and cons to using it. It has that now where it didn't before.

 

8 hours ago, Smilomaniac said:

My argument is that pretending that this has ANYTHING to do with balance, is the argument of someone who fundamentally does not understand what balance means.

Read the rest of what I wrote and if you still don't get it, then there's no help for you. At that point you genuinly think balance means that everything is equal, in which case you shouldn't be playing video games, you should be playing chess or checkers where the only person you have to blame for losing or playing poorly is yourself.

Of course it has everything to do with balance, it's you who doesn't understand what balance means. Balance means everything is equal, not identical.

[-Paradiz-]

Itzal blink nerf was unnecessary.

 

Why are you taking fun out of warframe?

 

[toafarmer]

Leave the new lame as hell "blink" for all AW, but give us Itzal users the decent blink back

[(PSN)Ozymandias-13-]

On 2019-11-22 at 3:12 PM, ixidron92 said:

I guess everyone would move now to operator dash, and then they'll nerf operator dash.

I already do. With Naramon and Zenurik Waybounds unlocked you can already beat just about anything but Itzal Blink. Lol 

[Uhkretor]

You guys didn't get it...

... Blink is the new roll. Its perfect to get missiles off our backs...

 

... that and I can use Amesha now, which literally makes me unable to die even if I want to, on purpose.

[(PSN)chubbslawson]

4 hours ago, -Paradiz- said:

Itzal blink nerf was unnecessary.

 

Why are you taking fun out of warframe?

 

That’s what they do, give us fun stuff and then take it away

[Smilomaniac]

22 hours ago, Iamabearlulz said:

It's not nonsense for there to be tiers of items. Sure, maybe you got a legendary, but it's balanced with the other legendaries on the same level to at least some extent. You yourself proclaim that Itzal is of the same tier as the other Archwings, therefore it should have pros and cons to using it. It has that now where it didn't before.

 

Of course it has everything to do with balance, it's you who doesn't understand what balance means. Balance means everything is equal, not identical.

Yes, you're completely right. If you compare one item to another one to one, then it's absolutely unfair. Okay.

In other words, you bring a knife to a gun fight and expect your opponent to put down the gun and pick up a knife, because you want everything to be fair.

If you thought that sounded stupid, try reading your own arguments.

 

[(XBOX)Th3BelovedSaint]

Wow! When you announced, at Tennocon that every AW was to get Blink. You said nothing about crippling the ability. I must say, this is entirely in keeping with what seems to be the overriding philosophy. Why invest the effort to make all other AWs useful when we can just make the one useful AW as worthless as the rest? Extremely disappointing. 

Edited November 25, 2019 by (XB1)Th3BelovedSaint

[(XBOX)Th3BelovedSaint]

On 2019-11-23 at 2:48 PM, Jynx41174 said:

DE needs to Realize that players are going to use what they're going to use, it would be refreshing if they actually took the time to look at what everyone is using and then buff everything that they're not using instead of nerfing the one thing that everyone is using into the ground.  Which is gonna wind up biting them in the ass in the long run

 

In any case, I'm an Amesha Main

 

What you just proposed would  constitute work. Much easier to just break one item everybody likes than improve all the items nobody likes. Generally speaking of course.

[(XBOX)Th3BelovedSaint]

On 2019-11-23 at 5:05 AM, Aesthier said:

Ok so pure blunt honestly here. I really don't care for any of the changes they just made to Archwings at all.  If they wanted other archwings to get more use then simply put a blink "exactly" like Itzal's on every one. Not some junk version with a cool-down.

As for Kdrives, sure I occasionally hop on one just to do something different but the fact is I am not some pimpled 12 year old and I despise the vent kids and the races.

For a game that prides itself on do the content you enjoy however you enjoy it the last few patches have  had a ton of "removing" ways people enjoy the game.

 

Its not something that encourages me to continue playing.

It is more like "do the content you enjoy, however you enjoy it, UNLESS too many other people enjoy doing the content THEY enjoy the same way YOU enjoy doing yours. If that happens, we will break your toy." Why kill every fun factor players find in the game, DE? Fun is what brought people to this game. Well, as with the Catchmoon,  going to be sure to equip all loadouts with the Itzal. Since "data analysis" at DE consists of just looking at raw "Most Equipped" numbers without any real analysis of the why behind them, going to do my part to shield anything else from looking "too popular". Extremely disappointing.

Edited November 25, 2019 by (XB1)Th3BelovedSaint

[Althaline]

2 hours ago, Smilomaniac said:

In other words, you bring a knife to a gun fight and expect your opponent to put down the gun and pick up a knife, because you want everything to be fair.

But a gun and a knife are not the same tier of item. If the knife could get similar results to the gun when wielded with similar skill, or even if it had a steep learning curve in return for increased effectiveness once you learn to use it, that would be balanced. Mixed Martial Arts tournaments are balanced, Tiananmen Square was not.

[Skaleek]

Okay guys. I've read all 14 pages of this thread. Not one person asked the most pertinent question:

Will this change make you use K-Drive?

Because that's why they did it. And i have a strong suspicion i know the answer.

Edited November 25, 2019 by Skaleek

[(XBOX)Th3BelovedSaint]

On 2019-11-22 at 11:07 PM, SenorClipClop said:

By a handful of seconds.

Hek, people can be such drama queens when their cheese gets toned down.

That is easy to say when it is not your cheese, huh?

[uxx0]

1 hour ago, Skaleek said:

Okay guys. I've read all 14 pages of this thread. Not one person asked the most pertinent question:

Will this change make you use K-Drive?

Because that's why they did it. And i have a strong suspicion i know the answer.

Look, I already got crippling depression. No reason to make it worse by using K-Drives.

Edited November 25, 2019 by uxx0

[ixidron92]

Oh well, apparently someone edited the title of my thread and I thought this was another thread I commented on. Didn't even realize until today this thread is still active. 

[(XBOX)ZenithLord 42]

The new changes do little in the way of encouraging the use of other Archwings in missions. Sadly, the changes only reveal DE’s ineptitude when it comes to executing gameplay that encourages participation beyond mission completions. 

[kapn655321]

Blink is like slapping an archwing on an archwing.

"The fast moving aerial thing with a boost speed... just teleport it instead of flying."

Reminds me of a 1959 conversation between Nixon and Khrushchev, about an exhibit of revolutionary kitchen technology.

Khrushchev, upon seeing processes that he considered redundant and oversimplified for the sake of laziness,
satirically asked if any of the new machines, "put the food into the mouth and push it down," for you.

Why stop here? We could have an Eidolon juicer that automates the process.
Surely, this would be an improvement.
It flies out, get the eidolons, chums them up to bite sized portions,
keeps and levels the good arcanes, sells them for you..
Maybe add a feature that plays the missions for you,
and auto forum posts about how bad the arcane prices have tanked.
We could really be living in the future here.
Darn DE. Amiright?

Kidding of course.

Eidolon fights are in a place between not worth it, or trivial..
with very little functional inbetween.
They're making an effort to encourage the inbetween, and not the trivial.
That's all.

Edited November 25, 2019 by kapn655321

[kapn655321]

2 hours ago, Skaleek said:

Okay guys. I've read all 14 pages of this thread. Not one person asked the most pertinent question:

Will this change make you use K-Drive?

Because that's why they did it. And i have a strong suspicion i know the answer.

People are positively seething about adding 10 seconds to their commute.
There is no way they will take the slower option.

I for one enjoy the K-drives.. and I WOULD use them, but everyone is in such a blinding hurry, it's not practical.
The solution isn't making K-drives blink infinitely though, it's changing the reward structure so people stop panicking their way through their missions.