Regarding Pablo's recent stream about saryn

[(PSN)Jack_Mahler]

il y a 10 minutes, Aldain a dit :

I hope all the Sayrn fans are happy, because just from these topics alone I have gone from indifferent to her getting nerfed and being concerned that the game modes are more the issue making her OP to the other side of the fence.

I hope she gets nerfed now, just so all your premature hysteria can be worth it, I hope your utter meltdowns do nothing but convince DE that she needs to be nerfed so hard that people question that why they just didn't delete her.

Because with this utterly disgusting temper tantrum and level of personal assaults and outright IGNORANCE that is being displayed I am convinced that this theoretical nerf is completely deserved.

Yeah, I can kinda relate to this...

[(PSN)robotwars7]

14 minutes ago, (XB1)ECCHO SIERRA said:

it seems like once they've "decided" to nerf something... its gonna happen.

they also decided to take raids out of the game, and said they would come back.. that was about a year ago, still no raids. people can get distracted and put things on the backburner. until you see undeniable proof that a nerf will happen (I.E. a lengthy discussion on Devstream, forum thread by DE staff, etc.), all you're doing is getting yourself worked up assuming the worst. chill out, and see where the pieces fall before you go grabbing your pitchfork.

14 minutes ago, (XB1)ECCHO SIERRA said:

it seems like when they nerf something they have a tendency to slam things into the ground. 

sometimes yes, they do. but they have also nerfed things without breaking them. for example, Inaros when he first came out regained health from Sandstorm, but they believed this was excessive, so made it the Sandstorm we have now, and Inaros is still one of the top frames. they can do nerfs right, it's just sometimes they get it wrong in spectacular fashion, and that's far more memorable (Ember after her first rework).

 

[AnuKaneDai]

So first page of that thread is about "paying".
Since "I gave money so now I have right to argue"
Nobody threatened you to pay. You could completly as I, got Saryn without giving money.
"I paid a pizza and now it's turned into a salad"
Well you also could got that pizza for free, and DE would turned it into a free salad. it's free so no problem.
Sometimes you see stuff on the forum, it's just amazing.

That part is closed now.

 

Well obviously she is really powerfull. And i'm a Saryn player. And I love her since her first appearance in game.
I see a lot of people reacting about something, but no link of the stream? You fighting wind?
I would like to see how the nerf would work if they was working on. Actually they dont work on it.
So I could see by myself if I could find some good side before whining.

But, Saryn as nuker frame it really strong. But why those kind of frame are so often used?
Why we dont see much Inaros/rhino playing teamplay? They can heal buff damage, etc.

Actually the game mecanics are leading us to an efficiency described by "kill more ennemy in a short time".
Yes if I have to kill a big amount of ennemy, nuke frame gonna be first choice. That's theyr purpose.

Are you annoyed by nuke frame on spy? capture?

So if a problem of nuke frame come from the goal of the mission?

All real player of Saryn knows how to play her outside spam 4 or 1, and I think I'm gonna use my tank build with 145% range to get use of the nerf before it come xD

So going back to my mumbling.
 

Mission's purpose lead to spam an unique ability, regardless of the full kit of the warframe. With a build made to get the best out of it.

We cant ask for a dps buff from ennemy, because some weak warframe gonna be too much handicaped

What about side objectives on mission? That cant be resolved by "1 bouton to kill them all"
Some pvp game give you medal about your performance IG. Your ability to support your team, to heal etc.

Actually Warframe doesnt not rewards that kind of behaviour. Supporting a team, CC, buffing.
Did you ever thought about use Saryn 1 upgrade? One of my build can give  a 254% extra corrosive damage on my whole team if they are close enough. Also to her + her 3 bonus.
That's a pretty sick dps buff

We will always goes into frame that make the kill of ennemy faster and easyer. Because this is how you get the best reward from a mission.
So Not nerfing the reward, but making other way to get reward interesting enough so nuking wouldnt be the only viable way.
Like giving back some room to fullfill mission with infiltration with viable reward if done right. (as I exposed on the FR side)
And working on fun and powerfull build with mod set and amalgame. That's some way to change things.
Did you know before melee change that Javlok amalgame allow to reflect enemy dps on themself with a shield?
And that dps got the buff from Saryn's 3? The build wasnt viable, but so much fun even against nullifier !
Just guarding and spread gas cloud from the augment into ennemy with theyr own bullets xD

Even if a lot of people would just spam 1 ability. Like Itzal show us all people who dont use or even know the other ability of that archwing. xD
But well, it's another problem. Saryn is a good candidat for a nerf by the way. instead of crying we have time to get use of it.

Have a nice day tenno

 

Edited December 3, 2019 by AnuKaneDai

[VentiGlondi]

10 minutes ago, Fellas92 said:

I mean nerfing something broken is fine, but we also need other things to get buffed once in a while as well.

Well, it's just your fault for ignoring the buffs and only focusing on the evil nerfs

[kyori]

1 hour ago, (XB1)ECCHO SIERRA said:

Pablo isnt just some guy lurking on some message board with an opinion. Hes a developer. And one who appears to have significant say over how warframes work.

Yup. Now he has started a series of... whatever, based on what he said, claiming it is not official, it's his free time etc etc

I think after this, I really hope he realized he cannot just mouth off anything as he please given his employee etc status. We don't see Steve or Rebecca talking like that in their twitter and then said it is their free time. *At least Rebecca man-it-up admitting she said the players are losers. lmao

I hope from now on, he will just post more pics of whatever his mum bought him

[(PSN)Hikuro-93]

8 minutes ago, Fellas92 said:

word is spreading that Saryn might be getting nerfed/reworked soon

She won't be nerfed soon. At least not short to mid-term. But if anyone thinks that the way she's outshining other frames in ESO won't warrant a nerf rework a good while after this whole situation calms down needs to buy some reinforced glasses. I mean, was it needed for a Dev to actually mention it at all?

Even if the issue is not necessarily Saryn, but mostly ESO. Either way if something happens I must say I don't think it'll be necessarily bad. The latest reworks have been pretty neat, whether they came from Pablo or Scott.

[8faiNt]

4 minutes ago, VentiGlondi said:

Well, it's just your fault for ignoring the buffs and only focusing on the evil nerfs

ah yes they buffed itzal's blink ability, gave them more range and gave it to all archwings but they limited the usage on a cd I bet the good stuff overweighs the bad here

[Colyeses]

32 minutes ago, Monochromeatic said:

its all or nothing with DE, its horribly ovepowered or completely useless

Actually, there's been a noticeable change in design structure that's caused a string of solid releases. Wisp released solid but not OP. Gauss is solid but not OP. Reworked Ember is slightly clunky but not OP and not useless. Reworked Vauban is solid but not OP. Grendel... I haven't played so I don't know him.

DE's design has improved a -ton-, and I'd love to see how Saryn would be handled in the new cadence because it might solve some long-standing issues and can also be used to leverage fixes for anti-ability measures, most importantly the energy leech eximi.

[(PSN)Jack_Mahler]

il y a 6 minutes, kyori a dit :

Yup. Now he has started a series of... whatever, based on what he said, claiming it is not official, it's his free time etc etc

I think after this, I really hope he realized he cannot just mouth off anything as he please given his employee etc status. We don't see Steve or Rebecca talking like that in their twitter and then said it is their free time. *At least Rebecca man-it-up admitting she said the players are losers. lmao

I hope from now on, he will just post more pics of whatever his mum bought him

I lost a piece of my heart while reading this, good god

[Fl_3]

35 minutes ago, Aldain said:

I hope all the Sayrn fans are happy, because just from these topics alone I have gone from indifferent to her getting nerfed and being concerned that the game modes are more the issue making her OP to the other side of the fence.

I hope she gets nerfed now, just so all your premature hysteria can be worth it, I hope your utter meltdowns do nothing but convince DE that she needs to be nerfed so hard that people question that why they just didn't delete her.

Because with this utterly disgusting temper tantrum and level of personal assaults and outright IGNORANCE that is being displayed I am convinced that this theoretical nerf is completely deserved.

Expect Temper tantrums from anyone who is getting their favourite toy taken away from them.

[DE]Pablo has stated himself that a Saryn nerf isn't on the table at the moment. But, because he says "atm" that doesn't mean that it won't be, and every single person who uses these forums is well aware that DE doesn't believe in transparency when it comes to telling things to it's player base.

We have no feedback with DE what so ever, especially on the PC, they start feedback threads which are then ignored unless someone personally calls DE out and asks a direct question in which case the community team will quite happily remove the offending posts.

I posted in this thread several times yesterday (Every single one of those posts has been removed, and I have no idea why.) saying that if a game mode relies on a single frame (Saryn and ESO which is what Pablo was talking about, he says he no longer plays ESO because of Saryn) then it's not the frame that's broken but the game mode itself. Why is Saryn the only viable option? Why aren't other frames as strong as that particular one in the same game mode?

The answer is poor design.

ESO is a broken game mode, a kill everything as quick as you can mode that punishes you for using your warframes abilities? This is why people choose Saryn, you can spam your spores and then let them do all the work for you, something a Mesa or any other frame cannot do because if you use your more powerful abilities more than once they get deactivated for a time. Saryn just keeps popping her 1 and there is no punishment for doing that.

That is why ESO is broken, because it allows a single frame to trivialise it.

Yes, there are Mirage and Equinox builds that are "almost" as good as Saryn, but, how long will it be until we hear "I don't play ESO because of those Mirage players how do you think I should nerf her?"

How about instead of "fixing" the frames you actually fix the game?

Edited December 3, 2019 by Fl_3

[24ANGELS]

You can nerf saryn alright. Tho it will be useless since people will just switch to other nukers like equinox, volt, mirage etc. Then what, nerf those aswell because "ESO"?

I just hope we are able to recover umbra forma, don't even care about the 2 tennogen skins i bought (kinda annoying but it's whatever). Just hope we are able to recover the umbra via support.

[Rakosta_Kai]

7 hours ago, --C--Nehra said:

Hmm, anyway, I play solo, and the suggestions he presented seemed to me to be so bad as to kill all my reasons to use her if it came to be. 

What you do is irrelevant...It's enough to know that others, clearly, don't follow your habits and subsequent comments in this thread are proof positive of this.

IMO, There's an excellent reason why you see some super powerful frames so little in groups nowadays...They don't want to attract enough attention to their special frame to get it nerfed.

Personally, given the track record for nerfs based on random complaints here? ...I call that wise.

[AnuKaneDai]

A lot of people are complaining about nerf.
DE nerf this ! DE nerf that ! It's all DE faults !

But, let see closer.
Why DE nerfed Ember: Tennos complaining about other Tennos rushing with 4.
Problems here. Tennos who goes in public expecting having a quiet party, tennos who goes in public only to rush and carry the game by themself instead of doing same but alone.
Tennos spamming only 1 ability.

Why DE nerfed catchmoon. Statistics proved that  it's was the main secondary weapon.
Problem kinda a "spam" of the same weapon because of the efficiency of it.

Why DE would "nerf" Itzal
People who was taking itzal only to spam 1
Problems here, spamming of only 1 ability, and most of people who do it, dont knews that Itzal got 3 other ability or how to use it.

Why DE would nerf Saryn? Because of people who is only spamming 4 or 1
Did you really think if Saryn wasnt over used and wasnt use to spam 1 ability DE would think about nerf her?

"It's DE fault, because they allowed it"


i'm observing something in my alliance actually.
it's peoples who pick a frame, and try a lot of different build, based on each ability and how to get the best of them.
And as result "oh that augment is influenced by that stat, I didnt know that"

You have a ton of ways to finish a mission in warframe. If you keep using the same, based on only one ability. Expect a nerf of it.
 

Edited December 3, 2019 by AnuKaneDai

[Xzorn]

Because DE is intend on trying to keep players in a set level range regardless of the consequences. So inevitably everything gets nerfed because DE cannot stop from adding Power Creep because it's how they entice players to new content so it's an unending circle that causes community Toxicity.

In other news Path of Exile is doing global boss buffs for their end-game.... Cuz that's how you properly oppose Power Creep.

[grillv20]

If you think Saryn has been in a good place at all since the rework then you have problems. No frame in the game should be able to clear maps like she can. It's  surprising that they're only just now talking about taking her down a peg.

[kwlingo]

4 hours ago, (PS4)Yes-Man-Kablaam said:

Last i heard there was NO OFFICIAL talk of a nerf merely a person saying they didn't like how it turned out and saying that it was unofficial and there were no official plans to work on a Saryn nerf at all. has this changed or are people still saying there is a nerf happening that isn't happening?

Pablo, the one who redesigned the Saryn rework last year was on stream and someone asked if there is any reworks he is planning on. Pablo stated the only rework he want to do is Saryn.

[VentiGlondi]

33 minutes ago, 8faiNt said:

ah yes they buffed itzal's blink ability, gave them more range and gave it to all archwings but they limited the usage on a cd I bet the good stuff overweighs the bad here

This is exactly what I was talking about

Let's just conveniently ignore everything else that happened recently

  

17 minutes ago, Xzorn said:

Cuz that's how you properly oppose Power Creep.

That is not opposing power creep at all, that's just going with it

Edited December 3, 2019 by VentiGlondi

[(XBOX)Almighty Deity]

11 minutes ago, Fl_3 said:

How about instead of "fixing" the frames you actually fix the game?

This.

[Loza03]

If I had to guess, it's because Saryn is as far on the problem spectrum, but much easier to fix. She needs numeric tweaks - Zephyr, Chroma, whatnot, they need full reworks and much more attention.

[Fl_3]

ESO is the only game mode that Saryn is super viable in as she doesn't get punished for using her 1.

In order for any other frame to meet pace with her they need to use their more powerful abilities and they get punished for using them with a time out.

Maybe, just maybe if DE fixed ESO then Saryn wouldn't be the only viable frame to use in there?

If they nerf Saryn because she dominates in a single game mode, and only in a single game mode, then how long will it be until they nerf Equinox or Mirage when they take over as ESO nuker prime?

[(XBOX)Almighty Deity]

11 minutes ago, Padre_Akais said:

What you do is irrelevant...It's enough to know that others, clearly, don't follow your habits and subsequent comments in this thread are proof positive of this.

IMO, There's an excellent reason why you see some super powerful frames so little in groups nowadays...They don't want to attract enough attention to their special frame to get it nerfed.

Personally, given the track record for nerfs based on random complaints here? ...I call that wise.

Sad day when you have to hide your frame and weapons builds in some fleeting hope you can keep the nice stuff you worked hard for safe from nerfs. You can rename and reskin melee weapons. You can rename and reskin secondaries. Many will and do to protect what they find most fun.

The worst part is when the very community you consider yourself a part of turns against you, insults you, and simply wants to see your stuff nerfed to the ground simply out of spite. No valid reason, simply because you like it and don't agree with the nuclear option.

[JackHargreav]

I think making her 1st a line of sight ability would be enough.

Or I'm also thinking about making her 1st ability ramp up damage only when she hits enemies with her 3rd ability. And set a maximum damge of 10000 or 7500 maybe that the spoers can do. 

Edited December 3, 2019 by JackHargreav

[bad4youLT]

This would have happend sooner or later like anything els with infinite scalability

 

[Smilomaniac]

You're not wrong, but it's not the truth either.

Warframe mainly revolves around two things; Personalizing builds (/fashion) and grinding.
Because the grind is as heavy and repetitive as it is, making optimal builds to get things done quickly is not only desirable, people eventually realize that it's necessary.

I like to play the build I think is fun, when I'm not grinding. I like to play my optimal build when I am grinding and even then, there are more optimal warframes to pick.

Like Pablo's take on Saryn and Elite Sacntuary Onslaught, why are everyone using Saryn (and Volt)?
To counter that, are you against bringing the best tool for the job?
Do you look at nails and wonder why everyone uses a hammer and are you seriously asking why the saw isn't being used?
Also, why is your solution is to take the handle off of the hammer to make things more equal?
Why are people bringing Saryn to ESO? Because ESO is not a fun game mode, it's a place to grind focus and leech affinity. It sort of sounds like the problem isn't what people bring, but that affinity and focus farming are both braindead chores that people don't enjoy that much.

Since I frequently complain about these things I get inundated with the stupidest arguments and about half of them revolve around the idea that these things make the game unbalanced. The itzal blink is the perfect example, since it exemplifies using the best tool for the job (open world travel) but it's far from the best choice for archwing missions. Was the blink the problem or is the problem that people don't want to waste time flying around in open world?
Something being 'the best at something' doesn't mean it's unbalanced. Neither do outliers by the way, there's always going to be a worst and best weapon or warframe for something. People are busy complaining about a certain weapon but they never take the time to cry about the dozens of weapons that are literal trash or that 70-80% of weapons aren't even appropriate for high level content.

People have to pick what to invest in (forma, catalyst/reactor, umbra, getting a riven, getting and leveling mods) so of course they're going to pick something that will guarantee good results.

Nerfing things in Warframe is a huge negative that trivializes the time that people have spent on the game and funnily enough people don't think that's very fair, fun or reasonable.
THAT is why people complain and why you should maybe be more sympathetic towards that perspective, than defending a company that uses the game as their personal coding playground.

[Xzorn]

8 minutes ago, VentiGlondi said:

That is not opposing power creep at all, that's just going with it

 

Different words, same outcome.

From my perspective Power Creep is something that needs to be opposed in a game. Opposition is how you create Difficulty. You need to fashion content equally to the gains you're giving players or everything goes to hell. You can say combat, oppose, growing. It's all the same technique. Consistent nerfing is not.

Nerfs are part of keeping viable options in a game where as DE is using it to oppress players in how they feel the game should be played.

Educated guess here that Saryn is being mostly used in Arbitration / ESO. She's good in other missions but not nearly as good. Arbitration, ESO, Bosses and Disruption is all DE care about right now. Saryn could be total garbage in other missions and still get nerfed when there are tons of ways to play Warframe..  or should I say were.