(PC) Empyrean: Railjack General Feedback Megathread

[Moraiel]

1 hour ago, Awazx said:

I will be very brief and sorry to be "that boy":

DE, I understand all the work you've put in Railjack, but ... it's not fun. I anticipate that you will have to make many modifications to the quality of life and gameplay. It doesn't feel good.

Can't disagree, feels like archwing 2.0, instead of spending time and resources on content like this, and its obvious alot of time was spent on this (it just isn't fun at all), invest that time into content for our actual warframes, you know the things we have sunk thousands of hours of our time into ( and no I dont consider 65 forma, totally unconnected to the rest of the game, same missions we have been doing for years, liches to be valid content).

Edited December 13, 2019 by Moraiel

[RaidenFirewing]

First Impressions on the flight model, also mirroring what has already been said:

While I do enjoy the Railjack very much, how it handles, how it feels (capital ship feel vs archwing fighter feel), I am desperately missing the option to turn of the auto rolling. If I'm rolling the ship into a certain plane, I'd like it to stay in said plane without constantly needing to adjust the angle as the ship tries to turn me back into the "correct" plane. It feels very awkward, almost like I'm fighting against the controls.

Secondly, this is less of a gripe and more of a wish: Can we also get rolling and full 6DoF movement for Archwing while in Space? Just like the positioning of the Railjack, I'd like to be able to have full control over the movement in space when in Archwing. Right now it feels very limiting, not being able to turn 360° or roll.

[DariusMcSwag]

Please let us access normal missions from our Railjack. Honestly without this Empyrean is just another island. It would make it more fun if we could do a couple of Railjack missions and then seamlessly transition to another normal mission, like a Fissure mission.

[Awazx]

il y a 12 minutes, Moraiel a dit :

Can't disagree, feels like archwing 2.0, instead of spending time and resources on content like this, and its obvious alot of time was spent on this (it just isn't fun at all), invest that time into content for our actual warframes, you know the things we have sunk thousands of hours of our time into ( and no I dont consider 65 forma, totally unconnected to the rest of the game liches to be valid content).

Completely agree with each point.

[Mephane]

2 hours ago, nslay said:

Second observation: Some resources can only be picked up by the Railjack! Why? Railjack is so tough to fly coherently! Please make it possible for Archwing to pick these things up (see screenshot).

This sounds really bad not just for solo players. Even in a full group, if the player piloting the Railjack doesn't fly to the item to pick it up, you're never going to get that loot then?

[CaineMayler]

So you have to shoot down the ships constantly attacking you, but also have to be running around inside the ship repairing the constant holes and getting rid of the invaders.  All while the ships outside are still shooting you and making new holes.  Then, if you haven't accumulated several thousand units of ammo to keep the omni stocked up, you soon get to the point of not being able to repair anything and so have to abandon.  Then there's the issue that pops up several times with some breaches being placed in areas that don't quite mesh properly so a good minute can be spent trying to aim at the right spot randomly in order to get the tool to work.

Solo play is pretty much out of the question since you can't be in three places at once and unless your team has stocked up on a dry dock's full of resources to keep the ship running, even the first mission is going to fail over and over.

Either add the option to have repairs automated (even by just adding a stock of resources to be consumed that will be drained to repair things by bots/AI quickly initially) while you're piloting, or AI targeting of weapons while you repair, but at the very LEAST, change the omni tool so that it will seal faster while it has the ammo but then slower when it is empty.  Because as it stands, this update is just turning in to a hull repair simulator followed by a careful examination of the mission failed screen.  You can't do repairs, flying and clearing out invaders all at the same time so some things need to be handled by the Cephalon (other than him barking orders and doing nothing) while you're handling something else

[Hekkatos]

1. "open squads: 15" puts me solo 9 times out of 10. I thought you just made match making better? play missions to farm resources to get better equipment to play stronger missions. this loop doesn't work if match making never matches me, because solo is too damn difficult.
2. a fundamental principal of game design is teaching players mechanics. a forum post does not count. you need to have proper explanations in-game. you are halfway there with free flight. now add actual tutorials.
3. abandoning a mission puts you back in the dojo. it's annoying having to then fast travel to dry dock, board, then launch a mission again. just put us back in the ship when the mission ends.
4. repairing with the omni tool. the fact that it uses resources is absurd. as soon as the ammo for it hits zero you may as well abandon the mission. the ui for it is also very unclear.
5. camera is too far from frames when using turrets. too much screen real estate being taken up by frames.

Edited December 14, 2019 by Hekkatos
spelling

[AreeSoothsayer]

Need wider range for picking up resources. I've watched stuff passed by, lots of times.

[diaversai]

1) I think some resources are shared but not all? In a co-op required scenario where people are supposed to be separated I think any resource picked up by anyone should be shared by everyone.

2) There definitely needs to be some markers on the ship. I don't know where anything is.

3) MIssions should end when they're completed. It feels a little like a hostage situation when your leader doesn't want to end it.

4) Pacing probably needs work. Killing 60 mobs takes like 12-15 minutes.

[Redwyrm]

Pustrels and diodes drops quite low, and/or requirement for repairing and researching with those are too high.

Researching next tier engines is 1500 pustrels, repairing tier-1 engine is 2400 pustrels. I got so far less than 100, from about 7 missions.

 

Also, resources needed to be highlighted with icons from afar, it's easy to lost dropped loot in the middle of the battle, and not so easy to find it in 6DoF enviroment after the battle

Edited December 13, 2019 by Redwyrm

[(XBOX)Erudite Prime]

Why does Cephalon Cy (6 hour build) cost the same amount of plat to rush as a Warframe (72 hour build)? Just wondering.

[lukaself]

Sorry to insist but, of all the flight models you had to chose from for Archwing, you chose...

...the one I found the most boring.

Sorry if I don't feel constructive but you can't expect people that have been playing having complete control and freedom in flight for two years in this game, to simply gracefully accept being forced suddenly and with no prior communication whatsoever about it, having to fly according to a plane again and with 180° locks on the pitch controls. This is the one of the most ambitious game modes ever developed in Warframe and you chose, consciously, despite being the game mode which features actual space the most, to have a flat field of reference. It doesn't feel right and it even does not make sense in space, where you don't have visual indication of orientation to anticipate the gimbal lock, not unless you consciously ever navigate around asteroids only ever going left or right and keep the planet in sight at all times to have a point of reference as to where "down" is. It's not flying anymore, it's hovering fast.

Not having complete free-flight feels flat and boring. Even if I seem angry, it's not really because of the change but because it has been decided so suddenly and forcibly to remove something people enjoyed with no time to prepare to it, compared to your usual openness to feedback. There's no reason we couldn't have discussed constructively about it if we had any indication this was in the works. If some people can't deal with being upside down sometimes, just give them an auto-roll setting just like the railjack has (even if we would like it to be actually optional for the Railjack too) instead of breaking the legs of everyone just so we all limp the same.

Please don't break our wings.

Sincerely.

Edited December 13, 2019 by lukaself

[zakaryx]

Lots of bugs so far but I'm going to assume those will just get fixed.

 

Crew without railjacks should be able to upgrade their intrinsics anyway. Otherwise what's the point of them even doing railjack? The only role they could even do well in is archwing and that's it.

Archwing weapons in general need a major review. Does archwing melee even work right now? I've tried hitting targets and nothing happens even when I aim in their direction.

Other Archwings besides the Amesha need a major review considering they're made out of tissue paper and blow up when something looks at them funny. Their abilities aren't bad but surviving without amesha drones/invisibility is basically a joke.

Starting on your railjack with no active abilities and being unable to even use the main cannon is really weird and offputting. Why let us craft ammo for a gun we can't use until we're level five in gunnery?

Why is there a button on the forge that someone can push that dumps all resources out and screws over everyone? If you don't have engineering at rank 2 or whatever it's basically mission failure immediately

 

Also where is the ship variety? Are the different crew ship layouts not in the game or just on a different planet?

https://imgur.com/a/RI4Xh4L

This is basically every boarding I've done so far. (except for the bug where your weapons don't work inside crew ships.

[DrivaMain]

3 hours ago, Awazx said:

I will be very brief and sorry to be "that boy":

DE, I understand all the work you've put in Railjack, but ... it's not fun. I anticipate that you will have to make many modifications to the quality of life and gameplay. It doesn't feel good.

Maybe this content isn’t for you.

Now the 1 thing I request on Railjack is an icon for the drops. It’s hard to see the drops in the mist of combat due to how small they are.

[PollexMessier]

the scale is incredibly underwhelming. why isn't the railjack the same size compared to us as it is in the dry dock? and everything else scailed accordingly. i was really confused when i first exited the railjack in a mission and it was like 1-4th the size it should be. its nice cus it makes it much easier to defend but it kinda makes things feel lame compared to how i thought it would be seeing the scale of the ship in the dock. takes me out of things

[outlawXIV]

to me rail jack SUCKS , i was looking forward to this sooooo much and it ruined my day to learn HOW S#&$TY it is .... you just ANTHEM'D all over a good idea .... the main reason it sucks besides matchmaking sucking ass , is the fact ALOT of the needed tools on ur rail jack ARE CONSUMABLE like the healing tool , to heal the holes on the rail jack or put out fires is a consumable and u spoend too much time grinding recourses off rail jack to get enough to do something on rail jack only to have the consumable run out befor ur even 5 min in to the rail jack mission cus the rail jack takes toooooooooooo much dmg tooooooooooooooo fast and nothign u can do about it on a LVL 1 mission.... i get it u want it to be a "tough" mission but its not "tough" its just retarded and anoying ,u made a GREAT concept idea game play UGLY BORING AND TEDIOUS with one mechanic , consumables T_T 

man this S#&$ ruined my day thanks DE T_T #railjacksucks

[SolidSnake8774]

Repairing ships is much of a hassle, you arent told anything about it, you're just thrown in and expected to know how everything works and where everything is?
I went like 8 missions trying to find out how to refill my omni tool. Cause it gets empty after 3 red repairs. And ended up failing the mission because the actual area is so unnoticeable, and none of the stations are marked or anything. Not to mention just to keep our ship from dieing and you failing the mission is using resources itself that you're there in the mission to get in the first place is counter intuitive.

Edited December 13, 2019 by SolidSnake8774

[Rogunz]

Adding travel time to all the archwing weapons combined with the new fighter enemies did a great job of showing just how much worse the new flight system is. It's extremely difficult to stay behind enemies without either overshooting them because you are forced into constant forward movement or falling behind them without sprinting. The pitch lock and inability to roll are huge restrictions when you're fighting enemies that are constantly moving.

A lot of the archweapons need to be tweaked to be usable in railjack missions since changing them to projectile weapons made them pretty worthless. It's also extremely difficult to mod them when the arsenal doesn't show any of the new damage types they are getting converted to.

• Corvas needs a range increase and it's speed massively increased, 100-200 meters is absolutely nothing with the speeds enemy fighters move.
• Fluctus has the same problem of short range and it's projectiles being way too slow to actually hit enemies.
• Larkspur has the same problem of short range which makes it difficult to keep the beam on enemy craft.
• Velocitus is lackluster too and would benefit from being changed back to hitscan or at least having the projectile speed increased. Without that there really isn't any reason to use it since you really can't use it for sniping like you used to.
• The Kuva Ayanga and Imperator are the 2 weapons I have tried that I feel are usable but it's still difficult to hit enemies even with them. Archweapon damage is also probably going to be a problem in the more difficult railjack missions since it's already not keeping up when you hit Saturn.

Archmelee is completely unusable since the autolock is still broken and you can't stick close to things.

It would also be nice to be able to pick up avionics/parts with archwings so you don't have to constantly mark them and wait for the slower railjack to pick them up. Collecting loot in general is extremely tedious since the archwing vacuum is so terrible and the railjack doesn't even have one. They really need huge increases so you don't have to spend a ton of time after the mission is over running around collecting all the drops.

 

There really needs to be a way to force an extraction timer for railjack missions since there isn't any way to leave if everyone isn't in the ship. That means if people get stuck because  of any of the many bugs they don't have any other option than leaving and losing everything.

Edited December 13, 2019 by Rogunz

[Test-995]

Gathering every one of items in 360 degree 10000km space isn't fun at all, i think every item pickups should be shared across all players no matter how far they are, and avionics/diracs should be acquirable with archwings   instead of only railjack.

flying railjack onto EVERY ONE OF THEM is EXTREMELY RISKY, SLOW, BORING. 

And then if i finish the mission before gathering them, i can't even find it anymore, map is EXTREMELY BIG.

I'm actually suspecting that was the intended behavior since every pickups will be displayed (although not shared), but whatever.

[lukaself]

1 minute ago, Rogunz said:

Adding travel time to all the archwing weapons combined with the new fighter enemies did a great job of showing just how much worse the new flight system is. It's extremely difficult to stay behind enemies without either overshooting them because you are forced into constant forward movement or falling behind them without sprinting. The pitch lock and inability to roll are huge restrictions when you're fighting enemies that are constantly moving.

A lot of the archweapons need to be tweaked to be usable in railjack missions since changing them to projectile weapons made them pretty worthless. It's also extremely difficult to mod them when the arsenal doesn't show any of the new damage types they are getting converted to.

• Corvas needs a range increase and it's speed massively increased, 100-200 meters is absolutely nothing with the speeds enemy fighters move.
• Fluctus has the same problem of short range and it's projectiles being way too slow to actually hit enemies.
• Larkspur has the same problem of short range which makes it difficult to keep the beam on enemy craft.
• Velocitus is lackluster too and would benefit from being changed back to hitscan or at least having the projectile speed increased. Without that there really isn't any reason to use it since you really can't use it for sniping like you used to.
• The Kuva Ayanga and Imperator are the 2 weapons I have tried that I feel are usable but it's still difficult to hit enemies even with them. Archweapon damage is also probably going to be a problem in the more difficult railjack missions since it's already not keeping up when you hit Saturn.

Archmelee is completely unusable since the autolock is still broken and you can't stick close to things.

It would also be nice to be able to pick up avionics/parts with archwings so you don't have to constantly mark them and wait for the slower railjack to pick them up. Collecting loot in general is extremely tedious since the archwing vacuum is so terrible and the railjack doesn't even have one. They really need huge increases so you don't have to spend a ton of time after the mission is over running around collecting all the drops.

Your post is way more concise and exhaustive than mine (Also, less emotional) Mind if I link people to it on occasion? 

[PollexMessier]

Can we get a separate toggle boost option?
I like sprint to be hold but I feel like boost would feel better as toggle to me

[Imadead]

Is this beta testing for a gamemode  that should never have launched?

Maybe 1 in 5 missions will succeed....and that is not based on the players!

Most times you board an enemy ship and are still in archwing mode,doors don`t open,YOU ARE STUCK and you have to abort because you can`t do anything.

Is it a host issue or just bad programming? Do we need dedicated servers at last?

If you want to use any turret other than the pilots GOOD LUCK at aiming at anything. Also get some headache pills ,YOU`LL NEED THEM.

The lack of any kind of tutorial is just there to seal the deal,yes this is crap!!!

 

1/10 won`t try again,i`ll stick to the main game

[sam686]

Trying to aim with game controller in Railjack pilot is just very bad. This can be a huge bad aim controls complaint when this update goes to video game consoles with game controllers.

Aiming that shakes when not in center from constantly having to hold down the aim direction, and spring back to center when not tilting the aim controls. Terrible aim controls. Give me an option to shut off aim automatically return to center, or just have the aiming stay in the center like it does when controlling turrets.

 

[FullMetalFox]

1: So, why does it take ages to down a "Crew Ship" with the Railjacks weapons, while a little Archgun just shreds them in seconds?
Just doesn't make sense, like a 1-2 second burst from a decently modded imperator does more damage than the bloody missile you have to spend resources on to use.

2: So crew ships just come back to life unless someone boards them to shoot the reactor? ...why? I get that this is a thing for the squishy Railjack, but why for those NPC ships?
Literally, the fastest way to take those down is to simply abandon the Railjack, fly to a crew ship, shoot its reactor a few times, head out to the next one. (Or try and curse that you get stuck on a crew ship that won't let you exit)

3: The turrets are a joke, its rare that a ship is inside the visible fire arc of those turrets, mostly when they just pass the Railjack on some attack run. Most turret gameplay I've had was shooting red squared painted over a wall without knowing what it was as the pilot did a good job keeping the enemy in front of him. That wall needs to go and their fire arc increased so gunners can actually shoot at stuff and have some visual feedback.

4: Resources that can only be picked up by the Railjack. STOP. Please just stop.
I've played a few missions with my Railjack, and a few as a crew member, in except one we missed out on several drops of Diarc and Railjack Mods because the pilot was to busy to notice the markers we placed, and we missed several because you can only mark one drop at a time.

5: Loot and marking, loot pickup range seems glitchy, loot is pulled in slower than a Hyperion Thruster fitted Arcwing can fly,
Turret gunners cant mark loot, and no loot is marked on a map or something.
Currently, it's essentially flying around trying to find random loot after the mission is over, while one guy tries to get everything the angry Archwing users mark, while said Archwing users get even more angry that they have to wait by some important resource to mark it until the Railjack picked up what they previously marked.

Sorry DE, I love you guys, but this time I'm just disappointed.

[Mephane]

28 minutes ago, FullMetalFox said:

Resources that can only be picked up by the Railjack. STOP. Please just stop.
I've played a few missions with my Railjack, and a few as a crew member, in except one we missed out on several drops of Diarc and Railjack Mods because the pilot was to busy to notice the markers we placed, and we missed several because you can only mark one drop at a time.

The whole manual loot pickups has always been terrible in Archwing to begin with. I am being dead serious here when I say that Archwing and Railjack should essentially have infinite vacuum range, in other words: all loot should automatically go to your inventory instead of drop as an object you have to collect in the first place.

And now DE manages to make this matter even worse by adding loot that you cannot pick up unless you (or someone else) pilots the Railjack over it. Just... what he hell were they thinking?

Edited December 13, 2019 by Mephane