Why is Empyrean so gated from players?

[SquidDan]

Time to add to all the great comments about Empyrean! Now I'm not personally complaining about the game play of Empyrean, from what few missions I've done I have enjoyed. Instead I'm more curious as to why such a big content update is so locked off?

When I finally finished through the riveting game play of Rising Tide I looked at the achievement for finishing the Railjack and as of the time making this post Steam says 0.6% got that achievement. Now I know this doesn't account for players who don't use Steam but I really doubt that boosts the number much higher. Seeing this low number has got me thinking on just why DE has locked off Empyrean so hard like this. This is one of their most hyped up updates they've done and I'm sure the idea of Empyrean has attracted quite a number of new players. However as if they hate the attention, they have sealed off the expansion with the brick wall known as Rising Tide where your soul is grinded into the resources for the Railjack. I don't understand what the grind of Rising Tide is supposed to accomplish. If it's making sure newbies don't rush to this then they went overkill considering the amount of resources needed and the fact you need to complete the Second Dream to have access to the quest. I can see the importance of making it so new content isn't always available to everyone or else the balancing would be a nightmare, but this is simply too far.

So it all comes back to why, why is Empyrean so gated from most of the playerbase? I know there isn't a definitive answer here but it won't stop me from wondering, just why?

[BansheePrime]

Probably because it’s absolutely not new player friendly. Even the Plains and Vallis aren’t that new player friendly but noobs can still kinda survive there. FYI only 1.4% of the steam players have gotten a Moa pet. That’s barely over double the amount that has built a Railjack. Geez. Only 2% have even entered the Drydock. And lets not forget only 64.2% of steam players have even solved a cypher.

Edited December 24, 2019 by BansheePrime

[Pizzarugi]

If I had to guess, it's because you need to have a dojo to assemble a Railjack. And if I had to guess, most players don't have a clan. I can't say I blame them either.

That's probably why people who want to engage in Railjack content can still do so by opting into it with the new button in Navigation. Want to do Railjack missions, but don't have one of your own nor have the means to obtain one? No problem.

[SquidDan]

11 minutes ago, BansheePrime said:

Probably because it’s absolutely not new player friendly. Even the Plains and Vallis aren’t that new player friendly but noobs can still kinda survive there. FYI only 1.4% of the steam players have gotten a Moa pet. That’s barely over double the amount that has built a Railjack. Geez. Only 2% have even entered the Drydock. And lets not forget only 64.2% of steam players have even solved a cypher.

I understand that it's not new player friendly, but the exorbitant amount of resources required from Rising Tide blocks off more than just new players from making their own ship. I believe that the amount of resources could have been lowered and it still would stop new players from from having a not friendly experience just as well.

Edited December 24, 2019 by SquidDan

[Vyra]

In WoW or other games you can not go int specific Dungeons before you are Grown up... same goes for Railjack i guess.
Rising Tide/Empyrean gives new players a big goal to hunt for....

Only thing i would try to add if i were DE, more Lore and a lot of mini quests that tease new players, encouraging them to hard work to be ready for the future!!!

Edited December 24, 2019 by Vyra

[YUNoJump]

Could partially be because of the quasi-reset Empyrean does, with its own resources, weaponry, modding system, progression and even Status system. Putting that near the start of the game could be really confusing for newer players who are still getting used to the base game. Players should stick to one major path until they properly know what they're doing.

There's also the fact that Empyrean is currently a big point in the plot and progression of the game. Having the resources to build a Railjack without deleting all your resources implies that the player has "conquered" the Star Chart, and has nothing to do there other than maybe Liches (a semi-recent addition) and updates like new Primes. Railjack takes us to a new progression path where we can't really rely on our Star Chart loot stockpiles, but it also requires our Warframe and weapon builds to be pretty solid (in order to stand up to the beefy Railjack enemy scaling). It's kind of like a "new game plus" in my opinion, except we're using a different system this time around.

[mrhapps]

Well, the only mastery locked in this mode unobtainable from trading is intrinsics which can be earned by joining other peoples ships. So i wouldn't say that it is really gated, since you don't need a ship to take part.

I made a similar post to this a while back and it was when steam said only 0.2% had completed their railjacks. That is 0.2% of 50million players (approximate), so considering that it is now 0.6% is a huge increase.(200k players increase in a month built their railjacks). When you look at the steam charts for concurrent active players it ranges between 60,000 and 140,000 which means that a great portion of those players HAVE built their railjacks. 0.2% is 100k people, and 0.6% is 300k people that have played and built their railjacks on steam in the last month.

A personal assumption puts the current active playerbase around 500k players, active requirement being logged in within the last month. I wouldn't say that would be a lot of people "gated" from the mode. Although my assumptions could be totally off and the actual active players could be much higher, those people can STILL play the gamemode so i don't really understand this post.

[schilds]

Railjacks may require significant investment, but the missions, rewards, etc are not locked off. People can join railjack missions without their own railjack.

Edited December 24, 2019 by schilds

[CopperBezel]

Yeah, the devs have described it as a game within a game, and although it has its own progression system, you have to have mastered some degree of the main game first. Not just in terms of having the equipment, but having a really second-nature level of familiarity with quite a bit of how the game works. Hell, even the squad coordination aspect is the most challenging in Warframe so far and pretty dependent on a player who's done a fair bit of squad play in this game. 

This is a mode that has a tactical view that allows you to cast ally abilities on yourself and other allies. Which implies you're familiar with the abilities you're potentially cross-casting. Which are each plucked from one of the four abilities of the fifty possible frames you could have in your squad. 

Yeah.

That said, it really kinda ... isn't very gated. You can join other people's crews without completing Rising Tide. Edit: As the fine folks who got to it before me while I was typing note.

Edited December 24, 2019 by CopperBezel

[Jiminez_Burial]

1 hour ago, SquidDan said:

When I finally finished through the riveting game play of Rising Tide I looked at the achievement for finishing the Railjack and as of the time making this post Steam says 0.6% got that achievement.

I wouldn't use achievements for a free to play game as any kind of reliable metric.  Only 65% of players have solved a cipher according to Steam, 55% have gotten a Warframe to rank 2, and only 40% of people have completed the first MR test.  This means that less than 50% of Steam recorded players could really even be considered 'people who play Warframe'.

And as others have mentioned owning a Railjack was never intended to be easy.  Some people are probably happy enough joining other groups, satiating their curiosity/interest without ever needing their own ship.

Edited December 24, 2019 by Jiminez_Burial

[Melanholic7]

1) seriously? 6 days of 30 min farming every day is hard? 

2) seriously? be unhappy about 6 days of farm trying to join FREAKING GRINDFEST MODE?) RJ is nothing but grind for grind

3) you can fly in space with no ship and collect resources there in one mission. Woooah. 

 

[DrivaMain]

4 minutes ago, Jiminez_Burial said:

I wouldn't use use achievements for a free to play game as any kind of reliable metric.  Only 65% of players have solved a cipher according to Steam, 55% have gotten a Warframe to rank 2, and only 40% of people have completed the first MR test.  This means that less than 50% of Steam recorded players could really even be considered 'people who play Warframe'.

And as others have mentioned owning a Railjack was never intended to be easy.  Some people are probably happy enough joining other groups, satiating their curiosity/interest without ever needing their own ship.

Or it could be bugged, there are some instances where steam achievements do not register. Maybe they just instantly turn down the game for “ThIs GAmE GrAPhICs SuCc I Am GoInG BaCk to FOrTnIte” because the introduction quest uses an old tileset.

[(PSN)sweatshawp]

Why is it an issue that new players can't readily access this content that they aren't geared for? 

[Mr.Fluffins]

10 minutes ago, DrivaMain said:

Or it could be bugged, there are some instances where steam achievements do not register. Maybe they just instantly turn down the game for “ThIs GAmE GrAPhICs SuCc I Am GoInG BaCk to FOrTnIte” because the introduction quest uses an old tileset.

They really need to redo new player experience...

Back on topic, Railjack is not really gated - all you need is an archwing to be able to join a railjack mission.

However, for a new player, the role set might be more limited. Considering how tough the ground enemies are, a new player won't be able to repel ramsleds or clear enemy crew ships (although he can still just CC everyone with Excalibro and blow the reactor). In a way, this can even be seen as an advantage, since it might stimulate a new player to progress and get better gear to be able to fight enemies in Empyrean, because let's be honest, the difficulty increase during starchart is small, and almost all starchart missions can be done with Rhino and a Hek.

Edited December 24, 2019 by Mr.Fluffins

[k05h]

vor 1 Stunde schrieb SquidDan:

So it all comes back to why, why is Empyrean so gated from most of the playerbase? I know there isn't a definitive answer here but it won't stop me from wondering, just why?

I think a mix of "we want harder content" and no better way to squeeze it into the current progression. 

The sad thing is that friends have been asking me if we could play this space ship thing in Warframe over xmas because they saw cool trailers. But I have to explain to them, they have to grind through endless ground missions, archwing missions and many more to experience what they have seen in the trailer. - The reaction is normally silence, followed by a shrug and the question if I have Destiny 2 still installed. 

To argue that players have to earn access to railjack is shortsighted because it only allows vets to play it. This group can be accessed much cheaper than spending millions on marketing. Part of Plains of Eidolons success in recruiting new players was its easy access for new players. I dont talk instant access but gating advertised content behind 100+ hours and advertising it, is just burnt money.

[(XBOX)The Neko Otaku]

Maybe just maybe it's not meant for people who just started the game.

These complaints of ___ isn't accessible to new player the second they start the game is like shutting down a strip club cause a kindergartener can't go in.

[k05h]

vor 19 Minuten schrieb (XB1)The Neko Otaku:

Maybe just maybe it's not meant for people who just started the game.

These complaints of ___ isn't accessible to new player the second they start the game is like shutting down a strip club cause a kindergartener can't go in.

But you dont advertise they club to the kindergarden kids with millions ^^

[(XBOX)The Neko Otaku]

16 minutes ago, k05h said:

But you dont advertise they club to the kindergarden kids with millions ^^

Okay so never talk about anything new update ever cause some people get real salty about not being handed everything on a sliver platter.

Video games should never advertise cause people don't have the game yet or their feelings might get hurt.

Edited December 24, 2019 by (XB1)The Neko Otaku

[Furybone]

3 hours ago, SquidDan said:

Time to add to all the great comments about Empyrean! Now I'm not personally complaining about the game play of Empyrean, from what few missions I've done I have enjoyed. Instead I'm more curious as to why such a big content update is so locked off?

When I finally finished through the riveting game play of Rising Tide I looked at the achievement for finishing the Railjack and as of the time making this post Steam says 0.6% got that achievement. Now I know this doesn't account for players who don't use Steam but I really doubt that boosts the number much higher. Seeing this low number has got me thinking on just why DE has locked off Empyrean so hard like this. This is one of their most hyped up updates they've done and I'm sure the idea of Empyrean has attracted quite a number of new players. However as if they hate the attention, they have sealed off the expansion with the brick wall known as Rising Tide where your soul is grinded into the resources for the Railjack. I don't understand what the grind of Rising Tide is supposed to accomplish. If it's making sure newbies don't rush to this then they went overkill considering the amount of resources needed and the fact you need to complete the Second Dream to have access to the quest. I can see the importance of making it so new content isn't always available to everyone or else the balancing would be a nightmare, but this is simply too far.

So it all comes back to why, why is Empyrean so gated from most of the playerbase? I know there isn't a definitive answer here but it won't stop me from wondering, just why?

3 of my friends decided to get into the game because of this update. they only need to have an archwing to join the missions and i don't have a problem with them tagging along. The only real "gates" are archwing and friends, ONE of them needs a railjack and its mods. We have played a few missions and they got all the loot as well so at some point they will have their own.

 

[JackHargreav]

Finally we got something that was aimed for the older player base. Almost everything was made with new players in mind.

Hopefully DE won't change the recources required for RJ.

[(XBOX)Hyperion Rexx]

Isn't it 0.6% of every registered account though?   Something like 25 million accounts, the vast majority of which no longer play.

If you take 0.6% of 25m then compare that figure to the actual active player base, it ain't too bad.

[Mints]

Because new players are massive burdens on any Railjack crew. I've seen a crew of fools let the Railjack decompress and die AFTER I had already completed the objective for them. In normal content bad players can be carried. In Railjack content carrying is like pulling your own teeth.

Edited December 24, 2019 by Mints

[(PSN)robotwars7]

DE can't win no matter what they do. either you let newer players in, which then causes vets to complain about having to carry people, or you gate newbies off which then results in newbies complaining they can't play the game (even though all they have to do is make some more progress and then they'll be allowed in).

all you actually need is an Archwing, and about 5 mins or less to learn how to use the Omni; congratulations, you are now able to help in a railjack mission by repairing whilst more experienced players handle the combat; you are no longer being carried as you are of value to the team.

 

[Loza03]

For that 0.5%, that's because that's 0.5% of anyone who's ever installed or had playtime on Warframe, including newbies, people from 6 years ago who tried it and dropped it, alt accounts, speedrunner accounts (which apparently do exist) and so on and so forth.

[Yamazuki]

3 hours ago, k05h said:

But you dont advertise they club to the kindergarden kids with millions ^^

Railjack wasn't being advertised to new players specifically, though. Someone also doesn't need a railjack to participate in the missions either. It's better to progress through the nodes using someone else's ship, given a lot of people have non-stock ships now, and as long as they aren't repeating nodes, they'll have, hopefully, some decent MK2 or 3 parts to make by the time they could make their own Railjack; after hitting 30 parts they'll have a decent amount of Diracs too. Also, the materials needed to make a Railjack drop in higher frequency there, compared to mining, meaning only the older materials need to be gathered.

Edited December 24, 2019 by Yamazuki