How many times im need rebuilt my zaw?

[Gloomyara]

Im already rebuilt zaw 20+ times, in each im put some formas and potato, just becase someone add new event garbage grip's at 1st (completely didn't understand wut for), after new grip's which was way better than old, and finally change dmg/attack speed...

why not just make it modular or the thing like FUSE in kuva weapons...

P.S. please stop play with it's dmg and attack speed...

[EDM774]

Zaws are already modular. What are you even trying to say here?

[(PSN)Shaun-T-Wilson]

He want to change the grips after he already built it.

[Wyrmius_Prime]

4 minutes ago, EDM774 said:

Zaws are already modular. What are you even trying to say here?

''Modular'' is just a stupid term DE uses. They aren't actually modular because Zaws cannot be edited after built.

[Redfeather75]

When I found out that grip and links that add damage actually nerf your zaw I thought of remaking them but why bother chasing things.

edit: For people who don't know. Melee 3.0 tripled damage of stuff except grips and links. The penalties of grips and links were originally balanced by their contribution to the total damage. Now you should never use all the links or grips that add damage at the expense of attack speed.

Edited March 22, 2020 by Redfeather75

[EDM774]

2 minutes ago, Wyrmius_Prime said:

''Modular'' is just a stupid term DE uses. They aren't actually modular because Zaws cannot be edited after built.

you can preview them while building it to see which stats you like best so it's OP's own fault for clicking the build button before checking what the outcome will be.

[Wyrmius_Prime]

26 minutes ago, EDM774 said:

you can preview them while building it to see which stats you like best so it's OP's own fault for clicking the build button before checking what the outcome will be.

They still aren't modular by definition.

[BDMblue]

28 minutes ago, EDM774 said:

you can preview them while building it to see which stats you like best so it's OP's own fault for clicking the build button before checking what the outcome will be.

He changed them because the stats of the Zaw got changed from a patch. That has nothing to do with looking up the stats before you build them.....

[SocialFox]

31 minutes ago, EDM774 said:

you can preview them while building it to see which stats you like best so it's OP's own fault for clicking the build button before checking what the outcome will be.

You do realize that they have been changed after they've been built right? it's not like OP could predict Melee 3.0 changes, and recent mainline Revision, when they decided to click that button

Also, I wouldn't Trust the UI with calculating how many seconds are in a minute, let alone stats on parts for a weapon that was neglected almost since release.

Or would you rather blame all "Catchmoon" users for not looking into the future to predict the Nerf that happened during the Kuva Lich content drop, well after they've spent a lot of plat on Rivens and Kuva on rerolls on said Rivens, and countless hours in Kuva Survival/Floods/Siphons for all that Kuva, well before it was so easy to acquire.

It's better to be silent and thought a fool, than to open one's mouth and remove all doubt.

[Educated_Beast]

I agree they should be modular.  Once you master the strike, we should be allowed to change grips without losing forma.  

It could work in existing fusion system.  Just add a new handle, get the old one back.  

There is no advantage to player to reforma, re-level, etc. because we want to test something.  If DE is so desperate for forma sales, just have Hok charge us platinum for the service directly   When the game actually changes, then definately need to be able to change without punished.  

Unfortunately, I gave up on zaws and don't use them anymore.  The lack of actually being modular is the primary reason. 

Edited March 22, 2020 by Educated_Beast

[(PSN)Shelneroth]

16 minutes ago, Wyrmius_Prime said:

They still aren't modular by definition.

I hate to get in to a debate about definitions but here I go anyway. I think calling zaws modular is fair. They meet the basic requirement of being built from a combination of interchangeable parts. That is modular. I don't believe that these parts remaining interchangeable after construction is a necessary aspect of something being modular.  

[lukinu_u]

They only added Zaw parts 2 times and reworked melee one time since Zaws exists, so you technically needed to rebuild zaw only 4 time at most, not 20+.

I agree with the idea though. The number of possible Zaw and the need to build a new each one you want a small change is just artificial difficulty you can avoid by doing maths. I love warframe because you can farm for everything and arrange your loadout how you want without costs or waiting, but all the modulars items we have right know goes against this direction.

[LapuLapo]

22 minutes ago, SocialFox said:

You do realize that they have been changed after they've been built right? it's not like OP could predict Melee 3.0 changes, and recent mainline Revision, when they decided to click that button

Also, I wouldn't Trust the UI with calculating how many seconds are in a minute, let alone stats on parts for a weapon that was neglected almost since release.

Or would you rather blame all "Catchmoon" users for not looking into the future to predict the Nerf that happened during the Kuva Lich content drop, well after they've spent a lot of plat on Rivens and Kuva on rerolls on said Rivens, and countless hours in Kuva Survival/Floods/Siphons for all that Kuva, well before it was so easy to acquire.

It's better to be silent and thought a fool, than to open one's mouth and remove all doubt.

I feel like its fine to leave the zaw system mostly the way it is now, But it would have been nice for DE to "refund" zaw parts or a "Hok credit" or something to make up for zaws that got obsoleted by the melee 3.0 changes, they're usually pretty good about giving us some consolation during big balance passes.

[VanFanel1980mx]

35 minutes ago, Educated_Beast said:

There is no advantage to player to reforma

It is supposed to be advantageous to DE alone due to monetization.

[(PSN)Silverback73]

2 hours ago, Wyrmius_Prime said:

''Modular'' is just a stupid term DE uses. They aren't actually modular because Zaws cannot be edited after built.

This is actually true.😆

Edited March 22, 2020 by (PS4)Silverback73

[JohnKable]

2 hours ago, SocialFox said:

er blame all "Catchmoon" users for not looking into the future to predict the Nerf that happened during the Kuva Lich content drop, well after they've spent a lot of plat on Rivens and Kuva on rerolls on said Rivens, and countless hours in Kuva Survival/Floods/Siphons for all that Kuva, well before it was so easy to acquire.

i would blame, yes. Just using that weapon for 20 minutes gave you an idea of how much insanely overpowered it was, without a single other weapon matching it or even comparable. 120+K damage hits with area of effect and infinite punch throught.
I had the catchmoon with 7 formas, bought a riven for it and rolled till it was quite good, not for a second ive been foolish enough to think that weapon wouldnt be hit by a substantial nerf. There wasnt even any risk involved, it was 100% guaranteed, otherwise it rendere obsolete any other secondary.

anyways that was a bad example and not comparable to zaws, that didnt need a nerf. Those weapons just got neglected in melee 3.0, specifically the +damage components, are still very viable tbh. And its also quite likely that the issue will be addressed soon or later

[Oreades]

Unless you're miserably bored or just need the MR and have literally no other option.... I'd tend to avoid Zaws/Kitguns. 

 

[(NSW)Sk0rp1on]

6 hours ago, Educated_Beast said:

Unfortunately, I gave up on zaws and don't use them anymore.  The lack of actually being modular is the primary reason. 

The only good use I’ve found for them is the Arcanes and giving them stupid names. If you’re chasing meta, they’re generally a let down. 

[AzureTerra]

You should be able to change the Link out (they don't actually "link" anything together)

[Arcira]

10 hours ago, (PS4)Shelneroth said:

I hate to get in to a debate about definitions but here I go anyway. I think calling zaws modular is fair. They meet the basic requirement of being built from a combination of interchangeable parts. That is modular. I don't believe that these parts remaining interchangeable after construction is a necessary aspect of something being modular.  

Strongly disagree here. Pretty much all definitions I could find at least suggest a certain degree of flexibility.

- "noun: composed of standardized units or sections for easy construction or flexible arrangement."

- "Computers: composed of software or hardware modules that can be altered or replaced without affecting the remainder of the system."

- "Broadly speaking, modularity is the degree to which a system's components may be separated and recombined."

- "...made from a set of separate parts that can be joined together to form a larger object."

Zaws on the other hand are fix items build from variable attributes. Once you click accept there is nothing interchangeable anymore.Calling them (and probably archwings after the rework) modular is objectively wrong in my opinion.

Edited March 23, 2020 by Arcira

[(XBOX)Rez090]

2 hours ago, Arcira said:

Strongly disagree here. Pretty much all definitions I could find at least suggest a certain degree of flexibility.

- "noun: composed of standardized units or sections for easy construction or flexible arrangement."

- "...made from a set of separate parts that can be joined together to form a larger object."

Zaws on the other hand are fix items build from variable attributes. Once you click accept there is nothing interchangeable anymore.Calling them (and probably archwings after the rework) modular is objectively wrong in my opinion.

Sorta just made the "modular" argument with just these two definitions.

[DarthIronclad]

I think is not just balance changes which can make builds/rivens obsolete... 

They could just add in more and better components for all modular stuff, which prob will be more grindy to get and craft, and make existing ones obsolete...

Is kinda in the same boat as railjack components, with the mk system, they can add in higher mks and make existing stuff obsolete, with the new stuff end up being more grindy to get. 

[Wyrmius_Prime]

15 hours ago, (PS4)Shelneroth said:

They meet the basic requirement of being built from a combination of interchangeable parts

If the parts cannot be changed, how are they interchangeable?

[Elessara1]

5 hours ago, Arcira said:

Strongly disagree here. Pretty much all definitions I could find at least suggest a certain degree of flexibility.

- "noun: composed of standardized units or sections for easy construction or flexible arrangement."

- "Computers: composed of software or hardware modules that can be altered or replaced without affecting the remainder of the system."

- "Broadly speaking, modularity is the degree to which a system's components may be separated and recombined."

- "...made from a set of separate parts that can be joined together to form a larger object."

Zaws on the other hand are fix items build from variable attributes. Once you click accept there is nothing interchangeable anymore.Calling them (and probably archwings after the rework) modular is objectively wrong in my opinion.

The first definition would still fit.  So would the last.  Neither of those definitions say that they have to remain flexible after the initial construction.  A zaw is composed of standardized units or sections for easy construction or flexible arrangement.  When you first put them together their arrangement is very flexible.  Zaws are also made from a set of separate parts that can be joined together to form a larger object.  Zaws are made of three smaller objects and you put them together to make a larger object.

Here's another definition I found:
"Having parts that can be connected or combined in different ways"  Still doesn't say anything about having to remain so after construction.  Zaws have parts that can be connected or combined in different ways.

Although if you want to get nitpicky over words you probably shouldn't say something is "objectively wrong in your opinion".  That's kind of an oxymoron.

[Arcira]

5 hours ago, Elessara1 said:

The first definition would still fit.  So would the last.  Neither of those definitions say that they have to remain flexible after the initial construction.  A zaw is composed of standardized units or sections for easy construction or flexible arrangement.  When you first put them together their arrangement is very flexible.  Zaws are also made from a set of separate parts that can be joined together to form a larger object.  Zaws are made of three smaller objects and you put them together to make a larger object.

Here's another definition I found:
"Having parts that can be connected or combined in different ways"  Still doesn't say anything about having to remain so after construction.  Zaws have parts that can be connected or combined in different ways.

The problem is essentially anything consist of parts. Even mobile phones have parts like a PC (graphic card, processor, ram). But are they modular just because they where build from them once? And if so why make a distinction in the first place?

5 hours ago, Elessara1 said:

Although if you want to get nitpicky over words you probably shouldn't say something is "objectively wrong in your opinion".  That's kind of an oxymoron.

In my opinion wording is one of the most important things especially when coding. English isn´t my native language and I makes mistakes but what part of my statement is oxymoron.

Are you refering to my grammar or a philosophical point of view? From my understanding anything a subject can handle is.. well subjective. And general objectivity is a concept that may or may not even exist. So I´m writing "objectively wrong in my opinion" because "I can´t see where this statement would be true" but it doesn´t mean it´s the universal truth. But yea maybe it´s redundant to accentuate this.

Edited March 23, 2020 by Arcira