Operation: Scarlet Spear: Hotfix 27.3.3

[iFlu]

Considering the numbers of bugs on how the rewards are given I really expect you to extend the event, I don't have the time (even though I'm on lockdown) to spent 3 hours in a relay to get nothing at the end

[-CdG-Zilchy]

Should've called it "Operation Broken Spear" or "Busted AF Spear"

 

[master_of_destiny]

Wow.  I didn't think it was possible, but you've managed to patch the event to be even worse.

 

Tried to join, and none of the sessions existed.  What does the game do?  It dumps me into a random session where literally none of my progress matters.  Joy.

 

Finally get into a session....and when we I started we were at 43 Murex.  Enter with a good rando group, and get to a 990 point max before the event ends with 100 driven off.  I spent the time to get to 990 points, and hopefully I can get 1980 reward Scarlet Credits....less than I'd have been able to get because the thing ended while in what was billed as "an endless mission with scaling rewards."

 

Fine.  This new event simply sucks.  The "infinite scaling rewards" only refers to getting more credits.  Because of credit prices you have to get to level 80-90 enemies just to get enough credits to not have to grind constantly, assuming that you aren't kicked out of the "endless" bit during a session because there are no longer any Murex.  On top of all of this for defeating level 100+ enemies we get a bunch of Lith and a few Meso relics.  

 

DE, let me short this discussion:

1. Quoting a movie, "I don't think that word means what you think it means."  Scaling rewards is not something we want if you don't give rewards at lower levels and the scaling only applies to a new currency that you've priced to be painful to earn.
2. You delayed a week and still released something with all the bad bits of Railjack, Dog Days, and Disruptions.  Buggy, broken economy, and rewards which aren't rewarding if you don't understand.
3. Damage sponge sentients are not a fun enemy type.  You agreed with us, which is the impetus for shield gating and rebalancing status effects.  Despite this, the new event is literally the bad things from before turned up to 11.  Spinal Tap this is not.
4. 28ish days to grind this is not fun.  It's day 2 and I'll probably be at about the 5000 credit point.  I'm sure you're counting this as a win because if I plug that level of grind in daily for 20 days it'll allow me to get the rewards.  No.  15k for the gun.  20k for the Lacera.  50-35=15.  I will have the credits to either buy most of the cosmetics or 10 silver level arcanes.  You said this was going to be a chance to earn arcanes, after the grind wall increase to 21.

 

 

Let me be clear on one last thing.  Releasing a broken economy penalizes the people playing.  It doesn't prevent cheater.  Likewise, requiring 1000 credits earned on a run to get the former bonus of 2000 credits is putting a steep barrier to rewards in place.  That's especially true with forced endings at 100 Murex.  This is compounding bad experience, with bad rewards, and finishing off that turd sandwich with the olive pickled in urine of a time limit.

 

How do you fix it without breaking crap?  Instead of a 100 Murex limit make it infinite.  Set a refresh every 3 hours.  Make the community rewards based upon Murexes driven away, so that newer players can contribute simply by running the minimum Condrixes, and fix that stupid scaling for the scarlet credits.  For the later point let's start with 50 credits, and increase by 20% each time.  Why?  The rewards in credits go 60-60-72-86-103...and at 10 are 303 credits.  The sum is 50-110-182-268....and at 10 is 1584.  If you make 5 runs at 1584 , with a 2x multiplier, you can afford the new rifle.  New players making it to 5 rounds will be able to get about 1/3 the credits, and thus take 15 runs.  Longer runs are rewarded, and people can actually potentially earn rewards in something less than a week of grinding in their spare time. 

This is stupid simple, so let me answer the obvious questions:

How do we reward players for longer runs?  You make the reward credit multiplier scale.  100 Murex is 2x, 200 is 2.2x, and 400 is 2.4x.  If minimum amount isn't met the reward is simply the highest value you earned in a run.

How do we prevent cheesing?  The enemies are already rapidly scaling sponges.  If you're not fixing that, then you've got a hard cap which can be set at 10000 credits.  This means the group participation could mean you either need 5000 points or 4167 to get the maximum.  Either way, group coordination offers better rewards.

How does this reward player skill?  Getting 400 Murexz downed in 3 hours is not going to be easy, even if 100 is relatively speaking.  Better groups working together get higher bonuses

How does this let new players in, but not penalize veterans?  Veterans man the Railjack, while newbies can continuously run the ground mission.  Thus veterans get to control the multiplier and build up points.  Newbies can feed the veterans, and if they break and reform after 5-7 Condrixes it's not a penalty.  They return back to minimum scale, as skilled players get to last longer and enjoy more from the multiplier.

What is a failure state?  This is an event.  It is a game.  There shouldn't be one aside from death.  Despite this, the recently changed scheme fails if you didn't get enough to rank.  It fails if your endless mission is interrupted by someone who wants to leave at 200 points.  It fails if 100 Murex are driven off too early.  It fails if you get a bad group of randoms who have no CC due to the mob spawns and CC enemies with invincibility states.  That's a lot of failure for what is supposed to be an event.  None of it is needed, and the penalty for failure is not balanced by the reward for success.  I can get bunches of lith and meso relics easier and with less scaling issues elsewhere.

Why am I asking for more rewards, am I an entitled gamer?  First off, the premise is insulting so go to Hades.  Second off, there's a difference between stupid and painful grind versus rewarding grind.  This is Star Wars Battlefront 2 level grind for Darth Vader at release.  That's bull.  I want something akin to Timesplitters.  Those challenges were an absolute annoyance, but something I failed after 2 minutes and had to run 15 times took me half an hour to unlock something.  40 hours for an iconic character was stupid greed, and this event smacks of that or idiotic balance.  I can't really tell which here.

[minhzai]

Can you guy bring the guy who work at trial and squad link that way at least it have more fun gameplay that this waiting insanityt

[shewantsthessd]

Got over 6000 points running Murex on a flotilla that hit the 100 Murex mark with 30 minutes to spare; end of wave bonus had zero credits. First time I hit tier 3 I only got 2000. I'm actually enjoying the event so far but I would really like to see a fix for the rewards 😞

[Proto034]

<post deleted; had the wrong tab open and posted to wrong tab>

[Leqesai]

12 minutes ago, Ceanmunt said:

Give us shield gating!

It doesn't work though...

GIVE US SHIELD GATING!

Okay.

SHIELD GATING IS S#&amp;&#036;

Cry about everything don't you. Maybe they should just make us all invincible and every enemy have 1hp, would that suit you more? Since you are unable to land 2 shots it seems.

The warframe community is horribly vocal with the complaining. I have never been so invested in a game where people complain as much as the people around these forums.

Personally i like the shield gating.

[ldegroodt115]

14 minutes ago, Ceanmunt said:

Give us shield gating!

It doesn't work though...

GIVE US SHIELD GATING!

Okay.

SHIELD GATING IS S#&amp;&#036;

Cry about everything don't you. Maybe they should just make us all invincible and every enemy have 1hp, would that suit you more? Since you are unable to land 2 shots it seems.

When people asked for shieldgating, it was for warframes, not for enemies. I don't think you've read the feedback thread and are just trying to stir up drama. If enemy shieldgating is going to stay in, it could use some improvements, especially with weapons that are high damage, long downtime (such as reload or charge time). Some of us are worried that it's going to be forgotten for years like a lot of other things.

[Adeptasian]

Hello,

I'm enjoying the event so far but there are a couple very jarring differences that make the event less enjoyable than it could be. 
1. Many people have complained that the bonus credit rewards have not been distributed. I personally have done two sets of events but have no extra credits. By now I could have had both weapons but due to this situation I would have to grind a lot more than I would want JUST to get the weapons. I am nowhere close to getting any of the arcanes this entire event was made for grinding.

2. Whenever you enter a relay it shows that it should have something like 50/100 but multiple times I have found that it says "no murex" or 100/100. This is of course very misleading and would also slow down the efficiency of the game mode for many by confusing them on if they can actually play or not.

3, The rewards for doing the ground mission NEEDS to be buffed. The reward is so low compared to going into a railjack. The effort for going to all 17 waves on the ground mission requires team coordination, good setups, and more time compared to a railjack team. The railjack team is litearlly comprised of "drive ship to murex, park somewhere safe, walk inside, mobile defense for 5 minutes." This only requires one defensive frame like a limbo or a frost AND gives more credits per minute to being on Earth killing level 200 enemies. This makes people hover towards going towards playing only railjack version of the event because it is easier and more rewarding. Simply by upping the rewards for doing the ground mission the incentive to play the harder half of the event will be good enough to make the ratio of both sides viable for everyone to have good uptime in playing the game.

This of course doesn't matter in the end if the main problem of rewarding bonus credits and fixing relays is not fixed. Please deal with these problems as soon as possbible, Thank you

[a542557923]

Why does the litter duck mail award only have MEDALS instead of the 10,000 tokens I deserve

[piekid]

Someone please explain to me why I can spend 2+ hours with the same flotilla doing the railjack side with a friend of mine, and he receives 6k bonus credits and I receive 2k. We had the same rank and did all the same missions. Another time he got 6k and I got NO bonus credits. He got the Murex II emblem, I got the Murex I emblem. This reward system is not only garbage, it's buggy garbage, and not properly scaled for the item costs. Yes, some of us have a lot of free time on our hands because our jobs are closed, but that doesn't mean we want to dedicate hours at a time to doing one thing to MAYBE get rewards that will make it worth it. I did a ground mission, had the rest of the group leave after the first condrix, I did the other two condrix alone and extracted, got 90 scarlet credits. That's unacceptable. Please re-evaluate this currency reward system.

 

Edit to add: Am I not receiving rewards because he's the party leader? Do we have to be solo to get actual credit?

[KelkSwiftlan]

Same thing. Did space mission with PUG and our instance had 100 Murex driven. We all disbanded but stayed in that instance until time ran out. After that I left and logged cause you know, food and a shower. I came back in with only a Murex II emblem. Really? I thought we'd reach tier 3 already but the absolute worst of all is...

NO. #*!%ING. CREDITS.

[a542557923]

3分钟前 , a542557923 说:

Why does the litter duck mail award only have MEDALS instead of the 10,000 tokens I deserve

I wish someone on the staff could at least give me an explanation

[zipilgrim]

Add me to the list of those who got their Emblem and "Battle won!" message from LD and zero victory credits (I like how people complain about getting the wrong amount, just consider yourselves lucky you got something...).

Are there any specific things we should/shouldn't be doing to get the bonus? Sit there on the Scarlet Spear until the 3h window expires? Can go back to Orbiter but not log off? Not be in the middle of a mission when the 3h ends, or when the 100/100 mark is reached? Be in a mission when the 100/100 is reached? Works for Ground but not Murex raid?

This is the 4th patch in a row (Kuva Liches, Railjack, Revised, now this) released in a completely broken state, that is insanely grindy even for a game pretty much built on grinding, and where the grind is made so much worse by how broken it is.

[Scar.brother.help.me]

7 hours ago, [DE]Megan said:

 

• Railjack owners now have the option to either Host a Murex Raid with their own Railjack or Join another Murex Raid.
•  
•  

Perfect! Now how about make this option to ANY pub mission:

- Be a Host

- Only Join

- Both

[-CdG-Zilchy]

11 hours ago, piekid said:

Someone please explain to me why I can spend 2+ hours with the same flotilla doing the railjack side with a friend of mine, and he receives 6k bonus credits and I receive 2k. We had the same rank and did all the same missions. Another time he got 6k and I got NO bonus credits. He got the Murex II emblem, I got the Murex I emblem. This reward system is not only garbage, it's buggy garbage, and not properly scaled for the item costs. Yes, some of us have a lot of free time on our hands because our jobs are closed, but that doesn't mean we want to dedicate hours at a time to doing one thing to MAYBE get rewards that will make it worth it. I did a ground mission, had the rest of the group leave after the first condrix, I did the other two condrix alone and extracted, got 90 scarlet credits. That's unacceptable. Please re-evaluate this currency reward system.

 

Edit to add: Am I not receiving rewards because he's the party leader? Do we have to be solo to get actual credit?

Yes, it's because he's host, it's currently busted af for rewarding clients.

[Cyanide2018]

57 minutes ago, -CdG-Zilchy said:

Should've called it "Operation Broken Spear" or "Busted AF Spear"

Sounds about right.

[Chewarette]

7 hours ago, Buldozers said:

Maybe you should add all relevant information about scoring and stuff in main update threads going forward?

Speculations when it's safe to leave instance and if you can start doing new instance and don't lose points from completed one is infuriating. Also squad mates getting different credits rewards from playing the same relay instance from start to finish just doesn't make sense.

This can be said about all events. 

Thanks, i have no bloody idea how this S#&amp;&#036; works. I learned from this topic there are ranks ? Okay

plus, we can’t just play one mission and leave ? We have to stay until 100/100 ? What a joke. As if you had to stay connected until invasion completion to get rewards rofl

[CoffeeElemental]

Scarlet Spear aside,

It would be nice to see more info about shield gating - both for players and enemies:

• for players - UI indication showing how much time you have left before you become vulnerable,
• for enemies - some visual effects of 'shield breaking' or whatever to clarify what exactly happened.

P.S. I know my grammar can cause mental disorders - sorry about that 😓

[master_of_destiny]

1 hour ago, Leqesai said:

The warframe community is horribly vocal with the complaining. I have never been so invested in a game where people complain as much as the people around these forums.

Personally i like the shield gating.

Stop.  Consider what you are saying.

 

Why is the community vocal?  Well, history tells us that nothing changes until a social influencer or mob brings up an issue.  Case in point; vacuum, purchasable cosmetic packs, damage 3.0, and my favorite of all time is the CC frames being useless.  Vauban specifically, and all others less so because they have other things but Vauban was sold on CC until DE decided to add nullifiers.

 

Why are people displeased with shield gating?  Well, it isn't exactly what was promised.  We were promised shield gating because frames like Vauban, Octavia, Loki, and others were getting one shot.  Shields evaporate, armor is low, and health is low, so support frames cannot play for extended missions without a revival demand or team designed to protect them.  What we've received....kind of works.  The issue is that enemies can now start regenerating shields pretty quick, so high damage low fire rate is actively detrimental.  If you'd like to understand go back and play the missions for Grendel with something like the Opticor Vandal (lord knows the standard is even worse).  By the time you charge a second shot the enemy can get another shield gate, so it takes 3-4 to cause enough damage to kill them through the gating.

What about the Tenno?  I'm not sure about you, but right now I have been one shot by enemies.  How?  Well, spawn 10-20 enemies around me who are invincible and have a nutty rate of fire and the shield gating doesn't seem to work.  Alive-dead, no ability to get out of the area.  

People are justifiably angry because this effectively means less weapon choice, when something like a nullifier has the ability to soak a number of shots but each shot can have infinite damage.  Yeah, the Ogris versus a nullifier means your death when the Nukor doesn't.  How exactly is that reasonable?  Moreover, what about the bubble going down and having to then deal with another gated shield?  It almost seems like the plan should be to buff the player, and leave enemies as-is until you figure out the function of shield gating.  Nope, DE decided to swing the nerf bat to corrosive projection, shield disruption, and infested impedance all at once.  It's almost like they changed everything at once without enough testing, and figured that feedback from players would tell them what tweaks to make.

I'd suggest that last sentence was a conjecture, but know better.  If you want to argue I'll listen, but first you have to explain how this is untrue in the face of Disruptions.  Yeah, they had to entirely rebalance the loot because they wanted the infinite grind to be for echoes which only lasted 24 hours and animated a single frame while you were in operator form...a feature the community responded back to vehemently, given the AI is dumber than a bag of hammers (in the literal sense of being incapable of communicating).

 

 

I can see why you'd like shield gating.  I don't have the right to take that from you.  What I do have is the right to suggest DE needs to fix a lot of it to work as intended, and should roll back the enemy gating unless they want high damage weapons to be sidelined against an enemy faction because they literally cannot be used when their balancing mechanics (high DPS peak but a large time between instances making them moderate DPS continuous).  The only argument to this is that if enemies have shields you have to mod for a magnetic status, which effectively takes choice out of the equation.  All of this points to rash decisions made which change the meta, while DE still says player choice is the reason for all of these changes.  Those of us who read that, then see there are really 3-4 viable builds (status, crit, hybrid, crit-bleed), find that logic difficult to swallow.

[Meta-Seru]

Thx for the hotfix but I still have a problem. Since the update when i finish a mission and get back to my ship I go to the equipment screen and the ability to select arsenal has been removed. So i have to click on my kuva lich that's hunting me to change my paragon, to then exit out to change equipment.

[ClevorTosty]

7 hours ago, [DE]Megan said:

Scarlet Spear Victory Payout Change

• We have changed the way Bonus Victory Payout is calculated to benefit all participating players in Murex Victories. Previously, your Victory Payout was determined by your Rank in the Flotilla (I, II, or III). Now, Victory Payout is calculated by your Best Higher Total Score between Ground or Space multiplied by 2 (capped at 10,000). 100/100 Murex Driven Away before the timer expires is still required to receive Victory Payout.
  • As an example - if you earn 300 points in a Ground Assault in a Flotilla that drives the Murex away, you will earn 600 Scarlet Credits as a Victory Payout. 
  • As another example - if you earn 4,000 points in a Murex Raid in a Flotilla that drives the Murex away, you will earn 8,000 Scarlet Credits as a Victory Payout. 
  • This aims to address some feedback we’ve been receiving about players who join a Flotilla in progress (ex 70/100 Murex Driven Away, etc) who aren’t able to reach a Rank in the Flotilla before it reaches 100/100 Murex Driven Away.

A known issue that we’re aware of/investigating are the reports of receiving the wrong amount of Victory Payout respective to the Rank which is earned in the Flotilla. However, there are reports of players receiving the correct amount of Victory Payout, which is why we’re continuing to investigate the discrepancies. We have some fixes in the works that will be tested overnight before we submit for a Hotfix.

We have several other known issues we are investigating for Flotilla Kill Code upload progress and bug reports have been helpful in tracking down the issues. 

        I thought that the Operation Rewards were supposed to be fixed with the latest Hotfixes. I am still missing credits after Flotillas are complete. So, I stopped playing, because it was not worth the time, between not being able to get a mission started due to the Flotilla matchmaking and invitation system not working, ending up in Flotillas that do not even have an active Murex after selecting one with more than 50+ complete, and getting half, or much less than half of the credits that I should. I have lost out on probably around 15k credits already over the past 2 days, do to the mission being unplayable and incorrect rewards being sent. 

    I think that the reward system is too complex, and hard to track for you, and for us because a Flotilla can go for 3 hours. So now I should just wait until a message appears in my inbox saying that the Flotilla has completed before I go do another run, otherwise I risk losing out on potential credits? That is if the message ever comes because they tend to lag behind a bit. Or, I could sit in the Flotilla for 3 hours, but I think I will pass on that one. Or, I could just not be a team player and only go to Flotillas near 75 to 80 codes sent and go do a run, and move on to the next one (because you just made that the most efficient way to farm credits). 

    I have had groups where the number of Murexes (Murexi?) completed at the Flotilla was different for each of us and we all got pulled into different Flotillas after. I have even been competing for a score in one Flotilla, been in chat with another, and in-game physically present in another Flotilla all by myself where it says there is no Murex present for 20 more minutes and  I have no current score.

        Just give people 2x their score in credits, or make everything worth half as much in the store, no time limit to complete x/x number of Murexes, just let us squad up in groups of 8, let us choose who goes to earth and who goes to space, and then go, and let your matchmaking do its thing.  

       Lastly, please create a beta test environment for the events where you openly and willingly let people sign up to slog through these bugs for you. Because we LOVE the game, and we LOVE you too, let us help you help yourselves. I would have been fine with "beta" testing this a few weeks before the event and not losing out on anything, knowing that I helped make the game better for everyone, rather than making all PC players your beta testers. This would also allow content creators to help create guides for the new content for you, to help guide other Tenno!

    Sincerely, 
    A Tenno who has loved this game for years ❤️ 

(TLDR: Simplify points, and matchmaking system, let us Beta test future events)

[MarshallLee67]

got 5k+ in space mission, not only did i not get any credit reward at all after our flotilla got to 100/100, i only got a rank 2 space emblem.

de pls fix i want my credits :<

[Bl4ckM0onk3y]

Well, this is the first event i won't participate in. And i'm here since 2013. 

edit: well,i'm not technically correct, i did build the railjack but didn't fly it because of bugs/grind/rng parts, did not do any lich because it's just as bad,so this really is becoming a norm for me and DE patches since around 1.5 years or more.

[Ceanmunt]

4 hours ago, ldegroodt115 said:

When people asked for shieldgating, it was for warframes, not for enemies. I don't think you've read the feedback thread and are just trying to stir up drama. If enemy shieldgating is going to stay in, it could use some improvements, especially with weapons that are high damage, long downtime (such as reload or charge time). Some of us are worried that it's going to be forgotten for years like a lot of other things.

Can we change warframes then, so they can still get one shot. It's exactly what i said, you want it if it's super OP for you, but you don't want enemies to have it. In my opinion, learn how to shoot something twice.