Kuva Bramma Changes: Explanation and Timeline.

[Proscriptor]

is this the current idea for the rework in terms of damage?

[Akimbo]

13 hours ago, [DE]Rebecca said:

- Increased cluster projectile radial attack size from 2.7m to 3.5m
- Reduced cluster projectile fall off from 100% to 50% - Fewer explosive fragments, but they cover more area and generally do more damage

hahahaha.

So it's basically going to be even worse than before?

Just stop it murdering everything in a 15m radius THROUGH THE FLOORS AND WALLS.

Make the draw time 1-2 seconds - it's almost like a super-op weapon should have some...drawback? 😛

Compare it to an ACTUAL ROCKET LAUNCHER i.e. the KUVA Ogris and see how stupidly overpowered it is in comparison, because apparently the Bramma is "hard" to get being a Kuva weapon like the Kuva Ogris... so the Kuva Ogris should be super op too right? spoiler, it's not.

Ammo is basically infinite in WF anyway, so reducing it's max ammo is just an inconvenience, not a balance change at all.

The weapon should never have even been released, it was clearly going to be overpowered because it takes zero skill to spam level-clearing AoE shots and I don't see any positive shift towards changing that with these proposed changes.

 

13 hours ago, [DE]Rebecca said:

- Reduced cluster projectile fall off from 100% to 50% - Fewer explosive fragments, but they cover more area and generally do more damage

This is probably the funniest part of the post. Please, read this to youself again. Then one more time.

"they cover more area and generally do more damage"

"they cover more area and generally do more damage"

Why did this seem right to do?

[Voghelm]

Legit can't believe you didn't do this (or something like this) in the first place and instead #*!%ed up every single ranged AOE weapon in the game. Well done.

Can't wait for you to "monitor the feedback" for a few months and do absolutely nothing, just like you did with Self-Damage/Stagger megathread.

Absolute pepega moment.

EDIT: I also say this as someone who didn't even use Bramma, ever, because I didn't find it to be an interesting weapon. The fact that a whole class of weapons had to suffer because someone couldn't use whole 2 braincells to stop killing themselves with Bramma, and/or because DE just looked for an excuse to axe everything, just makes this nerf so much more fun now. 

Jesus.

[Danielw8]

Kuva weapons should be for MR20+

[Vajet]

vor 12 Stunden schrieb DreadWarlock:

All prime versions of all bows and the Daikyu are perfectly playable and scale to pretty high levels, please tone down the drama.

The weapon did deserve a nerf, of course not one as big as this. But the post itself mentions that they are looking at feedback to adjust the changes in accordance to what they players feel confortable with. 

People have already addessed some of the other problems with the Kuva Weapons, in easy accessibility to players that shouldn't have enough level to even breathe the same air as these weapons are located at.

PLease, more constructive criticism and more ideas on how to adjust the proposal.

Please explain where my criticism wasn't constructive. I literally gave advice on how to fix imbalance of weapons in a more positive way. And I do think most bow underperform because their damage is very inconsistent and the disadvantage that you have to charge them give no advantage in return (compared to other weapons that fire directly).We may not agree on the subject which is perfectly fine but your approach to devalue my argument by insulating that it is not constructive or 'drama' is rather cheap.

[-Aridum-]

13 hours ago, -TSA-KenSasaki said:

Again: its a PvE game... cant understand why we need so balance changes. Bramma is good how it is, yes it does tons of dmg and now? I saw other weapons that u can brake with riven so hard, the bramma is a joke to this but there comes 0 changes.
First the S#&$ with the Zenistar that no one plays now cause its #*!%ign annoying, now the bramma, whats next? rly, its just stupid...

Now i wait for the Shildeg nerf...

👍

[Giga-Chad-Atlas]

il y a 23 minutes, Be.Vik a dit :

If someone didn't see this coming that is a big problem. Go and try to do anything. All you see are explosions everywhere from Bramma. You could tell straightaway. Thanks DE.

There's litteraly so much good weapons to play with , but people are always tied to the "easy way", that nerf is a blessing, this thread is just a mine of salt.

[ReaverKane]

I hope they haven't overshot the mark.
The ammo restriction seems overkill. The sub-munitions reduction should be enough to reduce its overall power, it also will make it less unwieldy. And it should have been the first measure before the self-damage changes. Because its the scatter range, number and damage of the sub-munitions that makes Bramma so strong and so prone to killing the user, especially in anything smaller than the largest rooms in the game, you'll end up dead.

But the Bramma was overpowered and really needed to be toned down.

[DroopingPuppy]

14 hours ago, Umbranoir said:

Another one bites the dust.

That's why the treatment should be faster. It just because it didn't nerfed fast enough.

[MacIntoc]

  

47 minutes ago, Be.Vik said:

If someone didn't see this coming that is a big problem. Go and try to do anything. All you see are explosions everywhere from Bramma. You could tell straightaway. Thanks DE.

I especially saw a few players complaining loudly.

44 minutes ago, Akimbo said:

Compare it to an ACTUAL ROCKET LAUNCHER i.e. the KUVA Ogris and see how stupidly overpowered it is in comparison, because apparently the Bramma is "hard" to get being a Kuva weapon like the Kuva Ogris... so the Kuva Ogris should be super op too right? spoiler, it's not.

I generaly make 2 times more kill with my Ogris than Bramma players 😄

[(XBOX)Tyreal2012]

47 minutes ago, No_Quarter said:

Same goes for weapons, scale actually seems worse if you look at it from a percentage pov cause there is hundreds of weapons and somehow each mission has Bramma, Ignis, 3 same melee weapons and a random choice of 5 top tier secondary weapons as suggested by <insert recent popular "TOP 5 of Warframe" youtube video>. 

 

Some combinations work, I play duo with a clan mate most of the time as hes a Nova with a Bramma and i'm usually Mag, Wisp, Saryn or whatever else takes my fancy. His Bramma is sometimes indeed a nuisance. I do see alot of Mesa and only really Saryn in ESO

The Youtube effect is the same for any game, especially when you have a vast bunch of people who dont understand modding etc. That said, i've never been Meta, I use what I find fun, Ignis, Catchmoon et al are not for me. I make my own meta, who cares if its not the most damaging weapon, its what i find fun, and i think alot of people forget that.

The recent Latron mod for example, more of this please despite the fact the Latron isn't suited to general gameplay because things like the Ignis and Bramma stop it being a viable weapon if you want to keep up with the killing. With the exception of the Bramma (which i have used extensively for kicks and giggles with our duo) Alot of weapons are being left behind becuase of things like the Ignis and Bramma. They're changing the way the game works to remove the viability of alot of weapons 

I'd love a bit of extra crit on the Latron P and around 20% increase in base damage values to allow me to compete the Bramma users of the world, but it wont happen as DE seem to be intent on going down the AoE is king route currently.

The change to Bramma is needed, its clearly become the new catchmoon, the requirements for lichs need to be much higher MR10 at least, bring back self damage at a flat percent, 25% of total health as an example. Reduce the bomblets to 5, and add a 0.8 draw speed and that would probably reduce the amount of usage the Bbramma gets to be more acceptable levels. 

Why we needed hand holding with the Self damage removal i've no idea, If you screw up cos you shoot a rocket at your feet, well that's your own fault death is the consequence. Which is why id love to see the kill anim come back with lichs, but maybe some variety over a back breaker please.

Obviously there's spitballing as no one has it yet and the change is all theoretical, but in any thing you cant please everybody

[Aoennor]

14 hours ago, Seditious_Spyke said:

why are we not allowed Nice things?

because nice things are being abused by yo-all

[(PSN)LegionOfZoom1410]

14 hours ago, [DE]Rebecca said:

We are doing a comprehensive review of this issue that players are raising to see what the next steps are. 

Just a curious question why instead of nerfing things weapons or Frames why not make the end game weapons harder to obtain??? 

The Kuva Bramma is ment to be an end game weapon there is 0 need to change it..

Instead why not put end game weapons like the Bramma locked Behind higher mastery ranks..

Like not be able to use trade or even select the Kuva Bramma from a lich until Mastery Rank 25+ for example...

By doing this you are encouraging players to play your game longer & more often to obtain one of the best weapons in the game...

By making stronger weapons Mastery Rank Locked in the higher ranks it also eliminates everyone being able to use it when there not ready..

Plus by making weapons like the Bramma locked behind Mastery Rank 25+ it would reward those who make it that far for continuing to play the game...

I would do this vs just destroying a weapon which is not needed...

Stop making Good Weapons so easy to obtain new players should not have ever been allowed to use it because they would never try anything else plus they are not ready for end game.

That falls on you guys don't ruin a weapon because everyone likes it..

Just make it harder to obtain as it should be plus by making it locked Behind MR 25+ by then players should have the mods required to use it...

And any person currently not MR25 will have keep there Bramma & all mods Forma's XP & more will be kept however the weapon will be locked until they reach MR 25+ 

That's how you solve the overuse of good end game weapons..

Plus this also restores balance & keeps it the best weapon in game but makes it more difficult to obtain while rewarding & encouraging players to rank up in Mastery Rank to obtain the games more powerful weapons...

Besides it's hard to reach MR 25+ so not everyone would be able to reach it.. or it would take them a long time too...

Yes players who currently own the Bramma & are not MR 25+ would get mad & yes some might leave & stop playing but you will always gain more players vs what you lose..

Plus it will encourage them to rank up more & stay committed...

So please do this vs Tweaking the weapon..

Hope this helps with ideas thanks 

 

 

 

[DoomFruit]

I'd rather just have self-damage back. There's a certain excitement when taking a weapon which can quite easily explode you along with that clump of enemies and we've lost that.

EDIT:

28 minutes ago, MacIntoc said:

I generaly make 2 times more kill with my Ogris than Bramma players

Also, don't forget that the Ogris has some "stats" which aren't listed anywhere. Hit an enemy with a rocket and look at what happens to the corpse. You're not doing that with a Bramma.

[Aoennor]

3 minutes ago, (PS4)LegionOfZoom1410 said:

Just a curious question why instead of nerfing things weapons or Frames why not make the end game weapons harder to obtain??? 

 

The Kuva Bramma is ment to be an end game weapon there is 0 need to change it..

 

Instead why not put end game weapons like the Bramma locked Behind higher mastery ranks..

 

Like not be able to use trade or even select the Kuva Bramma from a lich until Mastery Rank 25+ for example...

 

By doing this you are encouraging players to play your game longer & more often to obtain one of the best weapons in the game...

 

By making stronger weapons Mastery Rank Locked in the higher ranks it also eliminates everyone being able to use it when it's not ready..

 

Plus by making weapons like the Bramma locked behind Mastery Rank 25+ it would reward those who make it that far for continuing to play the game...

 

I would do this vs just destroying a weapon which is not needed...

Stop making Good Weapons so easy to obtain new players should not have ever been allowed to use it because they would never try anything else...

That falls on you guys don't ruin a weapon because everyone likes it..

 

Just make it harder to obtain as it should be plus by making it locked Behind MR 25+ by then players should have the mods required to use it...

And any person currently not MR25 will have keep there Bramma & all mods Forma's XP & more will be kept however the weapon will be locked until they reach MR 25+ 

That's how you solve the overuse of good end game weapons..

Plus this also restores balance & keeps it the best weapon in game but makes it more difficult to obtain while rewarding & encouraging players to rank up in Mastery Rank to obtain the games more powerful weapons...

Besides it's hard to reach MR 25+ so not everyone would be able to reach it.. or it would take them a long time too...

Yes players who currently own the Bramma & are not MR 25+ would get mad & yes some might leave & stop playing but you will always gain more players vs what you lose..

Plus it will encourage them to rank up more & stay committed...

So please do this vs Tweaking the weapon..

 

Hope this helps with ideas thanks 

 

 

 

Constructive with clear explanation, may those bramma users understand this

[(PSN)LegionOfZoom1410]

1 minute ago, Aoennor said:

Constructive with clear explanation, may those bramma users understand this

I have yet to use the Bramma I'm MR 27 & I'm tired of seeing those MR20 & below use a weapon they ain't ready for

That's why this would be a perfect change..

[Kaotis]

hace 14 horas, [DE]Rebecca dijo:

Tenno -

If you’ve been plugged into the community discourse since the self damage changes, you’ll have seen a lot of discussions about the Kuva Bramma. 

What makes this formerly self-damaging weapon so much more dominant than the others?

It has quickly taken the place at the top of the usage charts - which is where it should be given its acquisition - but the degree of dominance (about 3 times more popular than anything else) is not something we feel is good for the primary weapon Arsenal options.

We are changing it so that:

- It has a smaller reserve ammo (15 to 5), and gains fewer arrows from ammo pickups - This is to encourage players to aim the bow deliberately at crowds of enemies and not fire it wildly everywhere
- Fewer cluster bombs are produced on impact (from 7 to 3) - Reduces the overwhelming AOE potential somewhat but also makes the Bramma less visually busy. Players have said that the many many explosions produced by Bramma are hard to see through.
- Increased cluster projectile radial attack size from 2.7m to 3.5m
- Reduced cluster projectile fall off from 100% to 50% - Fewer explosive fragments, but they cover more area and generally do more damage

We will be monitoring feedback after these changes go live to ensure we’ve struck a better balance of having a powerful weapon - but not one that overshadows everything else in the game to the detriment of your squadmates.

You will see these changes in Update 28: The Deadlock Protocol, and we can discuss feedback once they are in your hands.

Until then, Tenno! 

Some day, i wish you guys/gals at DE would explain what is the rationale behind calling something OP in a game where it's mostly PvE and players don't really compete and it's more about the team work to finish an enemy ... Because you are actually calling something OP if it needs tuning.

In a game where a player can stop time, turn on no aim on the enemy npc, aimbot, play as Sirian mass murderer, play as Mongol mass murderer, almost become mathematically immortal (until lev 500+) , etc.  I would strongly argue that there are a lot more mechanics in the game that are far more broken than a pew pew colorful bow.

Thanks for your time but i would wish to see changes than actually better the experience of all the players and not of a minority few that have some deep seeded trauma caused by explosive bows.

P.s. I hate most bows and as soon as i ended formaing(for the mr) the bramma, it didn't see the light of day.

 

[Aoennor]

4 minutes ago, (PS4)LegionOfZoom1410 said:

I have yet to use the Bramma I'm MR 27 & I'm tired of seeing those MR20 & below use a weapon they ain't ready for

That's why this would be a perfect change..

Respect*

I'm MR21, forma-ed 5 on bramma but realised it ruin my gameplay in Warframe
In order not to ruin others, i keep it as it is, only used when i really have no other choice
because miter with its augment and corinth prime can literally do everything i need 
 

[(XBOX)Tyreal2012]

2 minutes ago, Aoennor said:

Respect*

I'm MR21, forma-ed 5 on bramma but realised it ruin my gameplay in Warframe
In order not to ruin others, i keep it as it is, only used when i really have no other choice
because miter with its augment and corinth prime can literally do everything i need 
 

I'm MR 26 almost 27 and knew from seeing the demos on the devstream that this would happen, i'm not entirely surprised why the community are so up in arms about it when they all knew it would happen too.

I openly admit i've used the Bramma to death but only in a closed squad with a clan mate hunting lichs, its fun sure, but there's plenty of other choices out there, people just want the most powerful thing and only use that

[Kaotis]

hace 3 minutos, Aoennor dijo:

Respect*

I'm MR21, forma-ed 5 on bramma but realised it ruin my gameplay in Warframe
In order not to ruin others, i keep it as it is, only used when i really have no other choice
because miter with its augment and corinth prime can literally do everything i need 
 

How exactly is a weapon meant to kill enemies destroying your gameplay? Your gameplay supposedly (if you aren't hunting, flying railjack or fishing) is technically to kill stuf.

[(PSN)LegionOfZoom1410]

14 hours ago, Circle_of_Psi said:

Any plans on lowering the damage too?, I feel that while the changes are good, damage (and with Rivens/certain frames: Mirage) makes this weapon still far too strong 

Um no leave it as is.

[Pendragon1951]

One way I see already to elevate the ammo problem is use Mag's pull and you'll stay ammoed up no problem, and personally I could care less when someone gets something, I think it's up to us as veterans to give advice as to how to play well. We have all tagged along with someone higher to get things we need or will need, As an example I didn't use my own Railjack to acquire MK 3 equipment until it was fully outfitted. 

[DeLawrence]

Yet again we see specimens of players complaining about something unreleased yet.
Back at its launch, the Bramma didn't seem like much on paper...but after I got it...bloody hell, it made the game too easy(not that it wasn't before), but it turned the "braindeadness" to 150%. And that's before the self damage removal. 

IT had a drawback initially; compared to the Lenz which has a very well visualy defined damage bubble which made using it really nice, Bramma had basically no warning mechanic. 7m blast radius, that's all we knew. It's hard to appreciate 7m so you'd end up blowing yourself up quite a lot of times. The same drawback made it quite tricky to use in small room maps, tunnels and such.(I'm not saying it should be, but it was enough of a hassle to qualify as a drawback)

When self damage was removed, every drawback of the Bramma disappeared. The stagger was and still is absolutely a non issue.

IMO, the solution to all the explosive weapons is to maybe think about a third weapon slot, a heavy/power weapon slot with limited ammo and ammo pickups and also unaffected by ammo pizzas and other stuff.

That way, you can retain the monstruous AoE damage but introduce the "When should I use it?" question in the game. Bramma, Lenz, Ogris, Tonkor, Phantasma, Zarr and more to come would sit really well with 3-7 shots(depending on the weapon) in a power slot meant for when you want the BFG. Archguns on land missions are pretty bad IMO, they don't feel powerful enough, so I'd strongly suggest an internal test for this. That'd also bring more variety in arsenals, maybe resurrect some forgotten primaries who may not be top dog, but still good enough.

[(XBOX)Tyreal2012]

4 minutes ago, kaotis said:

How exactly is a weapon meant to kill enemies destroying your gameplay? Your gameplay supposedly (if you aren't hunting, flying railjack or fishing) is technically to kill stuf.

Because a single user on their own can level a whole room, The issue isnt the weapon per se its the fact its removing 'fun' from other people by instantly deleting the map.

[Aoennor]

28 minutes ago, kaotis said:

How exactly is a weapon meant to kill enemies destroying your gameplay? Your gameplay supposedly (if you aren't hunting, flying railjack or fishing) is technically to kill stuf.

Well, my cup of tea is not necessary involves your opinion of taste. 
Imagine if daikyu, zhuge prime and bramma, what will you choose ?
Why you choose bramma instead of others? And apply that reason to why I choose not bramma, then ya, that's why. 
IN short, No aiming ? No skills required ? sounds like brain dead to me.
I prefer killing in style, not destructions. Killing is an art, explosions are for kids