Anyone else get frustrated by the lack of Primed mod coverage, when crafting up builds?

[Hexerin]

This primarily is directed at Primed elemental mods for weapons, but there's also gaps in other commonly used mod groups as well.

Was looking at Garuda Talons just now, and I lament the lack of Primed Organ Shatter because this weapon is pretty much ideal for it. Sacrificial Steel grants 112% crit chance (189% on heavies), and with a 2.0x modifier you'd see a 5.3x modifier if we had Primed Organ Shatter (which would be "+165% Critical Damage" based on Primed mods being ~83.5% stronger). Unfortunately, you're stuck with a disappointing 3.8x modifier with basic Organ Shatter...

Does DE have any particular logical framework for how they release Primed mods? Or is it one of those "whenever they feel like it" kind of deals?

[Chewarette]

They seem to have abandoned straight upgrades in favor of conditional mods (Galvanized, Archon-like)

[chaotea]

Not really to be honest. I dont even use most of the prime mods outside of serration.

[Hexerin]

12 minutes ago, chaotea said:

Not really to be honest. I dont even use most of the prime mods outside of serration.

Serration has no Primed version, though?

[LittleLeoniePrime]

because we most definitely need more power creep lmao

for real tho, I think there was even a statement at some point stating they'll stop doing primed mods going forward and just focus on deco and upgraded weapon variants with baro

And especially for melee, they're most definitely already strong enough.

[(XBOX)C11H22O11]

Ever since they made amalgam, galvanized and archon mods I would say those are better than primed, it's way less boring to get mods that are sidegrades than just bumping the numbers with primed

[(PSN)slightconfuzzled]

A little yeah, but in that sense, for myself personally, its more about the completionist in me. Its not like I think we need them, its not like I don't think there are decent or good alternatives, if not superior alternatives (I think Berserker Fury is better than Primed Fury for example), but because... well I have a lot of Ducats, and whilst I want Warframe to continue for another 10 years... well at this rate, it seems inevitable some elemental mods will get Primed variations, and others won't... 

I like big number, and I like shiny. Yes I already do big number and have shiny... but Primed Blunderbuss slightly bigger number and shiner still, so heart want. I'm also not that bothered by power creep as some are. That being said, its also not like I have this overwhelming desire for such Primed mods either. I just think an increased frequency of them, could be nice. IIRC the last time they mentioned Primed Mods in a Devstream, was that they wanted to be careful and thoughtful about such releases, or something to that effect.

It may not have helped that in 2020, they released Primed Firestorm (and the secondary version) whilst AOE weapons were on the rise, almost as if they weren't really aware of how much the meta was shaping up to be so AOE weapon dominant, which lead them to feeling like they had to make adjustments. Not that I think such an issue is likely replicable with many other Mods, except if they maybe released Primed versions of the Viral 60/60 mods, or, and I can't believe I hadn't really entertained this notion before, but a Primed Hunter Munitions mod lol. Still, I can see why they might be more reserved with Primed Mod releases, even if I think they should be more indiscriminate and carefree. 

[TheSteelMushroom]

Another problem is the base polarity of 60 on standard weapons would make the addition of more prime mods pointless unless we get a way to increase them like adding more polarity with forma up to 5 similar to how the kuva/tenet and Paracesis work without the extra MR levels. At the current state I don't even use the prime elemental mods for my standard primary and secondary weapons because of how restricting the polarity amount is so I can switch between elementals for different factions. 

Edited September 27, 2023 by TheSteelMushroom

[(PSN)robotwars7]

3 hours ago, Hexerin said:

Does DE have any particular logical framework for how they release Primed mods? Or is it one of those "whenever they feel like it" kind of deals?

pretty sure it's the latter. people have asked for Primed Streamline for years now, but I think both DE and the players know how busted that would be on some builds, and it's not like there aren't a myriad of other ways to keep your energy topped up.

a more reasonable request is Primed Blunderbuss, especially since we already have Primed Ravage and we have some actual Crit Shotguns now, but DE hasn't felt like adding it. instead they seem to prefer conditional mods like Archon and Galvanized mods. even then, by this logic, surely they should consider adding more Corrupted Mods; since having a statistical decrease as well as a benefit is about as "conditional" as it gets. (also, Orokin Vaults are one of many pieces of neglected content in the game, and I'd like to see that fixed)

[Numerounius]

No because primed mods equals more capacity which not all builds can handle or take care of easily. Its nice not having to deal with 8 mandatory mods in a build which would only be further exasperated if they were all primed mods.

[Hexerin]

19 minutes ago, (PSN)robotwars7 said:

people have asked for Primed Streamline for years now, but I think both DE and the players know how busted that would be on some builds, and it's not like there aren't a myriad of other ways to keep your energy topped up

Primed Streamline would be "+55% Ability Efficiency", which is just 5% lower than Fleeting Expertise but without the major downside Fleeting Expertise has. Additionally, ability efficiency is one of the few (...only?) stats in this game that has a hard limit on scaling, which we can already exceed by a massive margin. It's one of the cases where it's understandable that the Primed mod was never implemented, and I would be baffled if it ever was.

[LittleLeoniePrime]

10 minutes ago, Hexerin said:

ability efficiency is one of the few (...only?)

firerate is also capped afaik. and you can easily reach the FR cap with just basic mods on a prisma grakata :P

[SneakyErvin]

33 minutes ago, Hexerin said:

Additionally, ability efficiency is one of the few (...only?) stats in this game that has a hard limit on scaling

While true that you cannot go below 25% cost on a skill, you can still utilize more than 75% efficiency. So adding Primed Streamline would result in more efficiency available to counter things like Blind Rage. It would also result in other modding options in cases where you otherwise use fleeting, since not only would primed streamline and hatred end up only 5% shy of the cap, they'd also come without any negative impact to things like duration. Which would mean either alot more duration in builds that otherwise use fleeting or alot more of some other needed stat since you could replace primed continuity.

[Zakkhar]

4 hours ago, Hexerin said:

Was looking at Garuda Talons just now, and I lament the lack of Primed Organ Shatter because this weapon is pretty much ideal for it. Sacrificial Steel grants 112% crit chance (189% on heavies), and with a 2.0x modifier you'd see a 5.3x modifier if we had Primed Organ Shatter (which would be "+165% Critical Damage" based on Primed mods being ~83.5% stronger). Unfortunately, you're stuck with a disappointing 3.8x modifier with basic Organ Shatter...

Garuda Talons do not need anything more, due to insane Slash weighting and top base status. I have some basic formales build with 1 empty slot and it shreds high level SP with ease.

[Voltage]

3 hours ago, Hexerin said:

Serration has no Primed version, though?

It does in the form of primary Arcanes. As someone mentioned earlier, we've gotten more powercreep, just not in the form of standard Primed Mods. 

[fo3nixz]

yeah stil waiting for primed rapid resilience

[ReddyDisco]

Primed warm coat is needed, winter is fast approaching!

[trst]

Not really. Aside from not needing them in the slightest capacity would become a "problem" (something the community struggles to understand at times) if we had too many of them.

As for how DE releases them it seems they started back when the power increase could have been warranted/justified while others have been niche/underpowered mods (like Primed Cryo Rounds) or utility ones.

 

Personally I'd like that if DE was to continue making them that they'd look at the weird mods that don't really have a place. Like Priming Vigorous Swap, Retribution, Gale Kick, or Maglev.

[Tiltskillet]

6 hours ago, LittleLeoniePrime said:

for real tho, I think there was even a statement at some point stating they'll stop doing primed mods going forward and just focus on deco and upgraded weapon variants with baro

I recall this.... [cribbed from @PublikDomain's summary of the last AMA]

There was only one new prime mod in 2022, are you phasing then out, or was that a coincidence?
[DE]Rebecca: Baro Ki’Teers popularity is largely because of his primed mod offerings, but we’ve got an unspoken pause on releasing them. We personally use primed mods on all our builds, but before we add more to the pile we want to be critical on what we add to the game.

If they've said anything about stopping them entirely, I haven't heard about it.  (But there are lots of things I don't hear about.)

4 hours ago, LittleLeoniePrime said:

firerate is also capped afaik. and you can easily reach the FR cap with just basic mods on a prisma grakata :P

There's supposedly an undisplayed cap on semi auto of 10 aps, but a cap on auto is another thing I haven't heard about. 

 * * *

As far as the main topic goes, I don't really get frustrated by a lack of primed mods when building.  Once in a while I think another 165 elemental mod for melee, sidearms, and non-shotgun primaries would be nice, which is something I've expected since DE released the shotgun primed cold mod.   And maybe Primed Blunderbuss, but since we got an improved Crit Decel, I'd probably still use it in all or almost all crit shotgun builds anyway.  A prime almost certainly wouldn't be higher than +165% CC, and might only be +140%.

Which isn't to say there aren't a lot of potential primed mods I'd be delighted to see--it's just their lack doesn't trouble me.

Edited September 27, 2023 by Tiltskillet

[(PSN)Unstar]

I hope you're not actually getting "frustrated" because the best-in-slot mods aren't even better?  That wouldn't be healthy.  If by chance you're not being hyperbolic, I'd recommend the old adage:

"Grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change"

Edited September 27, 2023 by (PSN)Unstar

[Hexerin]

18 minutes ago, (PSN)Unstar said:

I hope you're not actually getting "frustrated" because the best-in-slot mods aren't even better?  That wouldn't be healthy.  If by chance you're not being hyperbolic, I'd recommend the old adage:

"Grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change"

You do realize that frustration is a generally benign feeling, right?

Well, for any healthy and well-adjusted person, anyways.

Edited September 27, 2023 by Hexerin

[(PSN)Unstar]

31 minutes ago, Hexerin said:

You do realize that frustration is a generally benign feeling, right?

With respect, I would not agree with that.  Frustration is indeed beneficial when it motivates us to work towards improving a situation or escaping a bad one.  But outside of that, I wouldn't recommend it, as there are often negative physiological components such as increased blood pressure in addition to the mental feelings of negativity.

That said, it's your life to live, so if for whatever reason feeling frustrated is something you don't want to get away from, that's your choice to make.

Edited September 27, 2023 by (PSN)Unstar
phrasing

[Hexerin]

5 minutes ago, (PSN)Unstar said:

With respect, I would not agree with that.  Frustration is indeed beneficial when it motivates us to work towards improving a situation or escaping a bad one.  But outside of that, I wouldn't recommend it, as there are often negative physiological components such as increased blood pressure in addition to the mental feelings of negativity.

That said, it's your life to live, so if for whatever reason feeling frustrated is something you don't want to get away from, that's your choice to make.

RIP, another victim of Psychology 101 courses in a US college.

[(PSN)GEN-Son_17]

8 hours ago, Hexerin said:

This primarily is directed at Primed elemental mods for weapons, but there's also gaps in other commonly used mod groups as well.

Was looking at Garuda Talons just now, and I lament the lack of Primed Organ Shatter because this weapon is pretty much ideal for it. Sacrificial Steel grants 112% crit chance (189% on heavies), and with a 2.0x modifier you'd see a 5.3x modifier if we had Primed Organ Shatter (which would be "+165% Critical Damage" based on Primed mods being ~83.5% stronger). Unfortunately, you're stuck with a disappointing 3.8x modifier with basic Organ Shatter...

Does DE have any particular logical framework for how they release Primed mods? Or is it one of those "whenever they feel like it" kind of deals?

Increasing power has been pushed back against by a lot of players in the community, myself included. Asking for the mod just to have it won't be a convincing argument, especially considering how dominant melee is, even through Steel Path. I wouldn't expect a prime version at all for this crazy enough mod.

[quxier]

8 hours ago, (XBOX)C11H22O11 said:

Ever since they made amalgam, galvanized and archon mods I would say those are better than primed, it's way less boring to get mods that are sidegrades than just bumping the numbers with primed

Sadly they are far from perfect.

Archons doesn't work for lots of cases or are weak as well.

Galvanized are ok but just mostly "+x on timer" (easy to get condition) but sometimes condition is nice (not too hard not too easy). Still they are just mostly damage oriented.

Amalgam.. interesting concept but bad implementation.

9 hours ago, LittleLeoniePrime said:

because we most definitely need more power creep lmao

for real tho, I think there was even a statement at some point stating they'll stop doing primed mods going forward and just focus on deco and upgraded weapon variants with baro

And especially for melee, they're most definitely already strong enough.

Hmm... aren't they doing some mods as well from time to time (not simple prime like +x more stuff)?