DE's obsession with randomization feels more about monetization than "challenge" or anything else.

[ECCHOSIERRA]

Lets start with the fact that pretty much every player learns pretty quick to save plat/forma/potatoes for weapons that they actually like, and or are actually good.

Because hey, if blue potatoes are a limited resource that are either slow to come by or cost plat, you should invest them carefully right? 

But wait! Between The Circuit and now archimedia, theres all of a sudden a reason to "invest" in weapons you would normally never use. 

 

People defending the randomizer usually point to "but muh challenge".

A) you cant tell me the circuit's random loadouts are meant to provide challenge when decrees exist and even a mid weapon with enough decrees piled on top of it, is gonna be more "overpowered" than anything in the game outside of that mode. You can also get carried.

B) All you really "need" in deep archimedia is to first of all not die, and second have at least one viable weapon that can kill enemies in at least a semi reasonable amount of time.

And pretty much every frame is survivable enough if built right and you can effectively ignore at least one personal modifier per week. Or just get carried.

 

If DE actually "stuck to their guns" and didnt give us ways to "get around" the "challenge" or having to use randomized loadouts then i could at least say "well its them attempting to make challenging content", but that isnt the case so it really just feels like a cash grab more than anything.

[(PSN)slightconfuzzled]

So I don't disagree with anything you wrote necessarily. Like i think you make valid points, make sense, and a lot of points, I also generally agree with, but I also have a slightly different take and perspective. As in, I don't personally feel the need to defend the randomiser aspects, but I also think many only frame it in the context of challenge/difficulty, which overlooks an idea and concept I believe DE intends. Which is variance in experience. 

Have you ever watched how some of the Devs play the game on Prime Time? Its usually pretty casual and chill, its not optimal, hijinks often ensue. Do you ever play the game just with friends? Do you ever laugh when one of them gets killed by Malice's bubble, especially if they were acting over confident about the game? You ever clutch out a Tridolon, because you were carrying friends, and they all died, and you all spent about 5 minutes reviving multiple friends, as they tried to revive each other, but kept dying, and then someone mentioned Night was almost over so you had to basically let them die and Capture the Eidolon before day, whilst your friends are still laughing in the background? You ever fight a new boss on day 1 of update, and get destroyed because you didn't know what to expect or how to build for it, and online forums are abuzz because of this new secret 60 eyed enemy? 

Sometimes being super optimal leads to pretty predictable outcomes and gameplay experiences. Which does relate a little bit to difficulty and challenge, but not necessarily exclusively so. Things can also be randomised and easier, potentially much easier, but variety can set the conditions for novel, new, relatively unique, interesting and unusual results. Which in turn can be very fun, memorable and exciting, and makes you keen for playing again and getting a new set of results/experiences. I understand and acknowledge that this isn't necessarily true or positive for many people. Just for some it can be.

Like I talked about this recently elsewhere, I remember one Duviri Circuit run in Steel Path, where Daikyu was my best Primary choice, investment wise, even though I thought it might struggle KPM wise, since well its a single shot bow, and some modes like Survival require mob clearing... I do happen to use the Daikyu a lot though and I really like it and am proficient getting headshots with it. Then as luck would have it, I pretty much got a lot of Decrees that allowed me to nuke and mob clear with the Daikyu. The Decrees around spreading status in an AOE, and the Toxin headshot Decree, a few with fire rate and Crit Damage. I could shot an enemy in the head and everything near it would die in explosions of numbers. Felt like I was using a Daikyu Prime Incarnon or something. Wasn't necessarily easy or hard (was mostly easy given my familiarity with the weapon and the combination of Decrees), but was a unique experience that will be hard to replicate, and importantly it was really fun. 

Last weeks Elite Deep Archimedea, I couldn't hard carry. With my selection and the other modifiers, even if I gave up one reward, I couldn't really think of a strategy that I thought could hard carry necessarily. Not without potentially some testing, and I did have some ideas... So I actually had to rely on team mates pulling their own weight as well... I might not be able to carry, but I knew I could contribute. As it turns out, whilst none of us had especially strong load outs, our team synergy, team work and communication was stellar, and so the mode was relatively quite easy, a few people were downed, but we revived fast, stayed as a team, coordinated to make Mirror Defence go faster. Challenge/difficulty wasn't necessarily a factor for why it was so memorable, satisfying or fun. At least for me, it was the fact we did have to rely on each other and work well as a team. Something I personally rarely have to do. Mostly because I am OP and use to soloing stuff, with multiple different Warframes and weapon classes. 

I personally don't think the modes (EDA, Duviri, etc) are designed with difficulty/challenge as a primary or driving force, as far as intent. I think thats an aspect but I think variety in experience, incentivising experimenting and team work, and also force mixing up the game play variety, including potentially some awful horrible runs, but some really interesting and fun runs too... I think people overlook that, as an idea and concept. Again, not everyone will play a game with friends, looking for silly hijinks, and to be destroyed and trying to retry, and have fun in failure, some prefer a more optimal, refined, predictable, experience, including some of those same people, but I often think that some people struggle to put themselves in the position of others as far as those gameplay differences and styles. Like sometimes its not necessarily about too easy or too hard, but how much chaos can erupt at a given moment, why did player 3 put in a second Disruption Key when player 2 already started one, and why is player 4 chasing the Gruzzling and... did Malice just spawn? Sometimes when a game goes like that, its just... funny and fun. Sometimes disorganised teams that struggle, are also fun. Maybe more so if you are in team chat, but yeah. 

Randomiser doesn't completely invalidate preparation, its more of a limiter, and so in this sense, some players are given advantages, if you happen to have so many tools prepared in advance, or practice with suboptimal gear regularly, but ehhh. I take suboptimal selection choices all the time, and just use game knowledge, in game skill, and energy with tools to make them work, pretty much every single time i have encountered it in Warframe, save for host migrations, or bugs. So for some, spending money could help alleviate some issues, I don't think its a hard necessity that can't be overcome other ways. 

[Aruquae]

Gen and I just had an enlightening conversation about this

It’s less so on challenge and moreso on difficulty 

The randomized loadouts can serve as a challenge, but it isn’t difficult. 

1 hour ago, ECCHOSIERRA said:

A) you cant tell me the circuit's random loadouts are meant to provide challenge when decrees exist and even a mid weapon with enough decrees piled on top of it, is gonna be more "overpowered" than anything in the game outside of that mode. You can also get carried.

It would be cool if we can use our own weapons, but they’re unmodded (and no incarnon). The way it would get stronger is the decrees, which will make your weapon stronger. Could even add niche decrees to fit in with less picked weapons. More decrees due to longer time spent, longer time spent increase enemy level. 
Could even add corrupted augments or something… something that boosts a warframe’s power, but decreases there other power. An example could be increasing Baruuk’s damage, but reducing his DR. 
Oh well, an idea

[quxier]

1 hour ago, ECCHOSIERRA said:

A) you cant tell me the circuit's random loadouts are meant to provide challenge when decrees exist and even a mid weapon with enough decrees piled on top of it, is gonna be more "overpowered" than anything in the game outside of that mode. You can also get carried.

Decrees exist but before you get enough decrees (or specific one) you still get "meh" gear. I don't think they are meant for challenge. They are meant for us not to go "near afk mode" on it. That's difference. Why? There is hardly any decree that makes slow, 1-target weapon to hit more target.

ps. yeah, carrier prime, Inaros would be proud ;)

1 hour ago, ECCHOSIERRA said:

 

B) All you really "need" in deep archimedia is to first of all not die, and second have at least one viable weapon that can kill enemies in at least a semi reasonable amount of time.

And pretty much every frame is survivable enough if built right and you can effectively ignore at least one personal modifier per week. Or just get carried.

All you have to not die? Right. If you abuse shield gate, have immortality etc then it's easy. Otherwise it's hectic.

47 minutes ago, (PSN)slightconfuzzled said:

Sometimes being super optimal leads to pretty predictable outcomes and gameplay experiences. Which does relate a little bit to difficulty and challenge, but not necessarily exclusively so. Things can also be randomised and easier, potentially much easier, but variety can set the conditions for novel, new, relatively unique, interesting and unusual results. Which in turn can be very fun, memorable and exciting, and makes you keen for playing again and getting a new set of results/experiences. I understand and acknowledge that this isn't necessarily true or positive for many people. Just for some it can be.

For variety & new/novel/unique experience you need gear that are different but with "good enough" power.

First or 2nd E/DA I had Dante or Revenant. I was healer/reviver. It was pretty good experience. However what allowed me was power (pseudo-immortality). You know how my runs in were in previous week? Ash with stupid 2-3 second invisibility, enemies rushing, people dying from time to time. No variety. And you know what's worse? I need to do previous mission if I fail at 2nd or 3rd. Duviri were like this with host migration. Half of hour goes Puff.

And you know how gear is? Let's ban this usage (e.g. STyanax cannot use any abilities during 4th). Or let's make something over clunky or over coomplicated (e.g. Exodia contagion with double/bullet jump instead of just any jump). Make gear the same. Make it too hard to reliably proc (e.g. Arcane influence). So on and so forth.

I wonder if such experience can be achieved in some between normal and "hard" mode. Normal Circuit is for example not hard. SP circuit depends on lodout.

[Chewarette]

A gaming company is about making money

(just in case you never noticed by the fact the Mastery Rank exists, DE's goal is for you to craft & test as many weapons as possible yes, that's breaking-news level of breaking-newsy nowadays apparently)

[MaxTunnerX]

2 hours ago, ECCHOSIERRA said:

Lets start with the fact that pretty much every player learns pretty quick to save plat/forma/potatoes for weapons that they actually like, and or are actually good.

Because hey, if blue potatoes are a limited resource that are either slow to come by or cost plat, you should invest them carefully right? 

But wait! Between The Circuit and now archimedia, theres all of a sudden a reason to "invest" in weapons you would normally never use. 

 

People defending the randomizer usually point to "but muh challenge".

A) you cant tell me the circuit's random loadouts are meant to provide challenge when decrees exist and even a mid weapon with enough decrees piled on top of it, is gonna be more "overpowered" than anything in the game outside of that mode. You can also get carried.

B) All you really "need" in deep archimedia is to first of all not die, and second have at least one viable weapon that can kill enemies in at least a semi reasonable amount of time.

And pretty much every frame is survivable enough if built right and you can effectively ignore at least one personal modifier per week. Or just get carried.

 

If DE actually "stuck to their guns" and didnt give us ways to "get around" the "challenge" or having to use randomized loadouts then i could at least say "well its them attempting to make challenging content", but that isnt the case so it really just feels like a cash grab more than anything.

I think youre half right. Yes, this stuff is in game to make more money by annoying people and forcing them to do what they would never do otherwise. However, a lot of people actually want to be annoyed and forced to use things they wouldnt use, thus its just giving people what they want for money, which is pretty normal and there is no money grab towards these people. However it is a clear money grab towards everyone else. Now if they had RNG stuff in game as optional, then it would be clear that they are not doing any money grab whatsoever, but thats not the case and thats why some amount of money grab is present.

Edited April 23 by MaxTunnerX

[Mazifet]

This sounds like something javi would have scribbled on his wall

[Stormandreas]

The whole random loadout thing being tied to challenge is such a false equivelancy.

In Rougelikes, random loadouts and equipment is then entire point of the game. The game is balanced and designed around it. Content is all based on the fact that you could go in with X or with Y, or maybe even with D+V+A+G+S combinations.

Warframe is not that. Warframe is not designed like a Rougelike, and is not balanced around it. Decrees were fine enough to balance this out a little, by making decrees absolutely busted.

The issue comes with the exact same issue Rivens have. They make weaker stuff good, they make good stuff even better, which just further weakens the weak stuff.

Deep Archimedian doesn't do any of this at all. It's instead expected that players go out of their way to hold onto things they don't want or have any investment in, with no compensation. This becomes especially bad when players are given no gear they even own.

I've said it before and I'll say it again:
It is unreasonable to assume every player will keep nearly every item and pay plat for slots just to play an "endgame" gamemode.

This is not a good choice for the future of the game.
Warframe is not a rougelike.

[AntifreezeUnder0]

The randomization is more like, you want x rewards, theese are the conditions.

I dislike the randomization as whole, but once i get atleast my go to frame and wep its fun to see how i can do in that gamemode, which by no surprise is casual fun same as everywhere else.

Challenge is to not run into host migration/dc or bug, rather than do the mission.

Since we already have 1 point to leeway to skip the 50 vosvor, every week is just easier depending you need the frame or the wep to breeze through. 

 

 

 

[Xylena_Lazarow]

16 minutes ago, Stormandreas said:

The whole random loadout thing being tied to challenge is such a false equivelancy.

Right on. Circuit and DA don't push my strongest builds, they ask me to collect a bunch of gear I don't care about in order to reduce the odds of being handicapped by a bad roll. Collecting stuff isn't "endgame challenge," it's low level grinding. There's a puzzle solving element that can be fun sometimes, but that's not what I'd call "endgame challenge" either, and it's really not hard when you do get a good roll. I don't need DE to force a handicap on me, I'm perfectly capable of removing all my mods and/or choosing garbage gear all by myself. There's no reason DE shouldn't be able to figure out how to challenge our strongest Saryns and Revenants.

[Numerounius]

I don't think it is about monetization. I think it is the fact that the system worked well with Duviri (minus the whole "secret" algorithm that they only partially shared) and then just ham-fisted it into the next piece of relevant content.

 

I'd say the problem is that the more of that they want us to use different stuff, with 10 different systems, it all loops back around to having best ways of completing it since you have forced so many restrictions on us that only one way nullifies most of the challenges.

 

I think having a different loadout system than what is used for Duviri is a good starting point. There are a couple of systems that I think could work out better than what is used while still retaining the concept behind using different gear.

[0_The_F00l]

I dont think i ever disagreed when someone said DE does something to make money ,

Yes any business needs to have a product or service that actually generates revenue - its pretty basic as an observation goes,

There are of course tasteful and not so tasteful ways to make money. DE has mostly depended on players having FOMO , lack of patience and a strong urge to be fashionable to have them spend money on the game.

That has not changed now, most players complain about the DA cause they believe they are getting less things (even if the rewards will collect dust over time),

Randomization is indeed a challenge , and like anything in life some people are better equipped to handle some challenges than others.

Some people find talking in a crowd as a challenge others do it as easily as breathing.

Having a drop rate of 0.5% for a thing you want is also a challenge , some are just luckier than others when getting it.

[Agall]

3 hours ago, ECCHOSIERRA said:

A) you cant tell me the circuit's random loadouts are meant to provide challenge when decrees exist and even a mid weapon with enough decrees piled on top of it, is gonna be more "overpowered" than anything in the game outside of that mode. You can also get carried.

Let's be honest, if there wasn't randomized loadouts in Circuit and 'optional' equipment for EDA, then we'd all just be playing Excalibur and trivialize the content.

Randomization is content, whether that's for Circuit or EDA. Its not about making things difficult, its about adding a challenge in a game that's been largely trivialized by the cringey min-max metaslave community.

Having to actually be good at Warframe and not just a particular set of builds to do the most rewarding content in the game is a good thing in my opinion.

[Drachnyn]

It obviously is a money making operation. (something something for profit company)

The reason I have less problems with this one over many other systems like crafting timers, slow grinds and riven gacha is that imo it asks a little bit of everyone instead of praying like hyenas on the impatient, neurodivergent or those with bad spending habits.

[Xenevier]

4 hours ago, ECCHOSIERRA said:

Lets start with the fact that pretty much every player learns pretty quick to save plat/forma/potatoes for weapons that they actually like, and or are actually good.

Because hey, if blue potatoes are a limited resource that are either slow to come by or cost plat, you should invest them carefully right? 

But wait! Between The Circuit and now archimedia, theres all of a sudden a reason to "invest" in weapons you would normally never use. 

 

People defending the randomizer usually point to "but muh challenge".

A) you cant tell me the circuit's random loadouts are meant to provide challenge when decrees exist and even a mid weapon with enough decrees piled on top of it, is gonna be more "overpowered" than anything in the game outside of that mode. You can also get carried.

B) All you really "need" in deep archimedia is to first of all not die, and second have at least one viable weapon that can kill enemies in at least a semi reasonable amount of time.

And pretty much every frame is survivable enough if built right and you can effectively ignore at least one personal modifier per week. Or just get carried.

 

If DE actually "stuck to their guns" and didnt give us ways to "get around" the "challenge" or having to use randomized loadouts then i could at least say "well its them attempting to make challenging content", but that isnt the case so it really just feels like a cash grab more than anything.

i will say this has 2 sides, you can addapt with your builds and make new stuff for the challenge sometimes when you HAVE the option to do so, for example last week i had to go MAX efficiency, 40% duration kullervo which in reality makes 0 sense but in practice was actually not bad, i would have never done that if it wasnt for EDA.

on the other side, if you dont get the frames that have the flexibility to do that stuff, you cant do much, same with weapons, that same week, with kullervo i first got the Zaw as my weapon, which sucked for me, then after a couple of days it turned into the Hespar which is one of the worst weapons that has innate bleed procs, as its slow and clunky but i made it work, if i didnt have kullervo with those weapons, it would have actually been impossible to do it wiht anyone else since my primary and secondary werent much to write home about

[Mr.Holyroller]

I wouldn't call it an obsession.

The randomized modes have been so refreshing for the game.

I'm pretty sure they genuinely get more positive feedback than negative.

The target audience is veteran players.

They probably disregard new player complaints to some degree when it comes to Steel Path Circuit and Deep Archemedia

Edited April 23 by Mr.Holyroller

[trst]

Considering how much players have struggled just in Duviri with random loadouts and how much this playerbase in general refuses to step outside their tiny AOE shaped box it seems like random loadouts for challenge is working exactly as intended. Plus this approach is probably the last thing DE can do to try and create challenge without massive reworks, inventing entirely new gimmicks that circumvent our gear, or risking pushing out the majority of casual players.

And as for ways to "get around" the challenge of random loadouts that's just a result of the modding system and DE's unwillingness to actually push for hard content. Its been well known since Duviri launched that all you need is ONE good frame setup, ONE good weapon, OR have just maxed out your Operator. It's literally impossible for DE to make anything require a full loadout without massive changes and even if they could do that it'd then make the mode impossible for the majority of players.

Also if it was about monetization you'd think that DE would just slap a big purchase button right there in the selection menu. Or take the approach some games have done with an "everything bundle" that just give you all the gear up front. And there's no "fact" that players should save upgrades for their favorite weapons or good ones, only that new players should spend their starting plat on slots. As all of those upgrade items are entirely free if you just play the game. Especially Reactors/Catalysts which were made literally free via Nightwave.

 

Personally I see nothing but benefits to more randomized loadouts. It pushes players out of their comfort zone or at least forces players to put more consideration into select pieces of gear (like working on your Operator instead). It gives a new avenue of "endgame" prep of having all/most gear setup for such content (which matters in a game that has only had gear checks for difficulty). And it returns value to items you've previously invested into and dropped for one reason or another (which remedies the "muh investments" complaints we've seen so often).

[Aldain]

Honestly to me it more seems like a method to get people out of their comfort zone and engage with more than 1% of the game's equipment.

[Kaiga]

30 minutes ago, Aldain said:

Honestly to me it more seems like a method to get people out of their comfort zone and engage with more than 1% of the game's equipment.

Too bad most are relics from 2017 and need buffs.

This whole randomizer content idea is simply a band-aid for the power creep/godmode hole they've dug themselves into, but it's not a particularly good one since not everything is equally capable of having a non-awful time under crippling modifiers and limitations.

It doesn't matter if it's technically "viable" with a build that scrapes the barrel with gates and iframes and lengthy, bullet sponge kill times, if it's not any fun, what's the point? You can get carried in this mode, so challenge isn't the answer either.

Edited April 23 by Kaiga

[Jarriaga]

There is no other way to make difficult content considering most frames can do level cap.

Heck, it's not even about making it harder. Just less trivial by adding a 1% mission failure chance (Up from 0% failure rate) via uncomfortable builds.

Either DE nerf everything we have to the ground to make level 100 (One hundred) enemies a threat, or they limit our ability to use min-maxed perfect builds. They opted for option 2.

Edited April 23 by Jarriaga

[Pakaku]

9 hours ago, ECCHOSIERRA said:

But wait! Between The Circuit and now archimedia, theres all of a sudden a reason to "invest" in weapons you would normally never use. 

Expecting to have to minmax everything up-front, just in case the game rolls them for you, is an insane and unhealthy goal if you haven't already been naturally hoarding and ranking up weapons at your own pace anyways. Probably even unrealistic given the limited amount of time a player is likely to spend on these gamemodes. Levelling all of the weapons is a much longer-term goal than that.

I think it's better to consider Circuit as a test-ground instead of a challenge. It's a way to playtest things you don't have yet and decide after that run if you want to invest into them. If you look at it that way, it's actually more of a benefit to (open-minded) players who don't hoard or have limited weapons so far.

9 hours ago, ECCHOSIERRA said:

{eople defending the randomizer usually point to "but muh challenge".

A) you cant tell me the circuit's random loadouts are meant to provide challenge when decrees exist and even a mid weapon with enough decrees piled on top of it, is gonna be more "overpowered" than anything in the game outside of that mode. You can also get carried.

B) All you really "need" in deep archimedia is to first of all not die, and second have at least one viable weapon that can kill enemies in at least a semi reasonable amount of time.

And pretty much every frame is survivable enough if built right and you can effectively ignore at least one personal modifier per week. Or just get carried.

For the most part, the most challenging thing I hear from the complainers is getting out of their meta comfort zone. If they can't learn to adapt, then they're going to make it hard for themselves. Otherwise... the game does do a decent job as far as I've noticed at trying to give you at least one decent weapon you could "main" for that particular run, even if it's not your favourite weapon archetype.

Edited April 23 by Pakaku

[UnstarPrime]

I try to approach things in good faith, so I can't say whether DE is intentionally using these RNG Loadout systems as a way to drive players to invest in gear they wouldn't otherwise invest in with the knowledge that a portion of them will address this via monetization.  All I can say with certainty is that such a system exists and that it will have the aforementioned result.

I think it would be a positive result for everyone if there was no reason to worry about whether the manipulation was intentional or not, by simply implementing a system that didn't create new avenues for manipulation.

[helioth137]

variety is the spice of life (: 

Sorry, but incentivising creativity with legendary arcanes, tau forged shards and so on is in my eyes a good move. 

Sure I would have loved a new boss fight like eidolons, but... let's see what tennocon brings in july, 1999 looks fun ( : 
I'm digging the more human side to things, the WF helmets were often just too alien to be relatable to me. 

And... A lot of what everyone else wrote is true and doesn't need to be repeated. 

[Xzorn]

10 hours ago, ECCHOSIERRA said:

B) All you really "need" in deep archimedia is to first of all not die, and second have at least one viable weapon that can kill enemies in at least a semi reasonable amount of time.

 

This pretty much applies to the game as a whole since the Enemy Defense Scaling nerf.

I build majority of my frames defensively or with some trick to not die because there's no longer a balance between offense vs defense. To take on level 400 enemies you needed some type of damage amp and further on you needed more than one. It required team synergy. That being said, we beat old scaling both offensive and defensive.

On my return I probably blew through 100+ forma. I certainly noticed the forma sink is real these days. Kuva, Necramechs, Tenet. All these things you have to sink forma into to max rank or make functional. I would like to say the old scaling would have done fine for typical players. It's a shame endurance runners wanted to start at 300-400 for years and we didn't get it until enemies were made of paper which meant it no longer mattered.

If you don't want the Vosfer end reward which I don't. I just pick a hard carry frame so they kinda failed anyways.

[traybong111]

9 hours ago, (PSN)slightconfuzzled said:

So I don't disagree with anything you wrote necessarily. Like i think you make valid points, make sense, and a lot of points, I also generally agree with, but I also have a slightly different take and perspective. As in, I don't personally feel the need to defend the randomiser aspects, but I also think many only frame it in the context of challenge/difficulty, which overlooks an idea and concept I believe DE intends. Which is variance in experience.

I personally don't think the modes (EDA, Duviri, etc) are designed with difficulty/challenge as a primary or driving force, as far as intent. I think thats an aspect but I think variety in experience, incentivising experimenting and team work, and also force mixing up the game play variety, including potentially some awful horrible runs, but some really interesting and fun runs too... I think people overlook that, as an idea and concept. Again, not everyone will play a game with friends, looking for silly hijinks, and to be destroyed and trying to retry, and have fun in failure, some prefer a more optimal, refined, predictable, experience, including some of those same people, but I often think that some people struggle to put themselves in the position of others as far as those gameplay differences and styles.

Though in fairness, requiring some coordination could fall under a category of "difficulty" in content. Mechanics in LOR were extremely simple--literally just standing on buttons and not letting mobs move you off buttons--but even those had a consistent failure rate because cooperation is evidently challenging for many people. But I agree with your main point about DE's attempts at creating variety--for a game with as much stuff as Warframe, a variety of gameplay and multiple distinct metas (which DE can tweak around to relatively less backlash) would work better for longevity rather than constantly churning out new content islands that still offer little variance from what we've always done.

I've been duo'ing most EDA since launch with a clanmate and it's a lot of fun trying to mix and match the hands we're dealt for that week. He didn't get all that lucky this week, but luckily I rolled into Cycron which could entirely ignore the ammunition nerf, and I could crutch on my clanmate's Harrow to boost said Cycron, so on and so forth. He didn't have any of the primaries of the week built up, so he slapped on a bunch of status mods and Primary Exhilarate on one of them (I think it was Quartakk?) to keep up Condemn and Covenant. There are so many tools at our disposal in Warframe and even if it's just for one or two missions a week it's so exciting to find a use for them.