I know Power Creep is an old topic but wow ...

[Xaxma]

Gram Prime completely outclassed every weapon in the game. It's not even funny. 

It didn't just power creep other melee into oblivion, but literally every weapon. Why use anything else when you can Gram Prime? Nothing is going to out DPS this thing AND it can use Tempo Royale.

Jesus Christ. 

[GnarlsDarkley]

So exactly when Galatine Prime came out. Where's the news?

[Cyborg-Rox]

Melee rework's coming though, so it'll probably get balanced then.

[--F--NerevarCM]

Isn't the Gram Prime slow as a Fragor Prime?

So you have Galatine Prime that have less damage but is alot faster, and Gram Prime that is slow but have more damage.

[MickThejaguar]

Power Creep doesn't actually effect Warframe the way people seem to think it does. It's really not a problem.

[WhiteMarker]

I don't know...
I really like my Heavy Zaw with Exodia Hunt using the August Mesto Combo from Tempo Royal.
Ragdolling enemies left and right and pulling them in for finishers is pretty nice.
Straight up DPS isn't everything.

[Me.KayOh]

It's also a boring topic that is inconsequentially discussed.

[BiancaRoughfin]

33 minutes ago, Xaxma said:

Gram Prime completely outclassed every weapon in the game. It's not even funny. 

It didn't just power creep other melee into oblivion, but literally every weapon. Why use anything else when you can Gram Prime? Nothing is going to out DPS this thing AND it can use Tempo Royale.

Jesus Christ. 

Gram is the King of the Heavy Blades, its no surprise the Prime would come with such high status.

About it out performing every other weapon, not really, my Zaw Dagger still out performs the Gram Prime and i use Exodia Contagion which acts as a Long Range Melee Nuke. Also, there are still many players which will prefer to bayblade with the Scoliac or Atterax.

[DarcnyssWolfe]

37 minutes ago, Cyborg-Rox said:

Melee rework's coming though, so it'll probably get balanced then.

Who's to say its not already balanced for the melee rework. Isnt there something weird with its combo counter or something?

Edited September 26, 2018 by DarcnyssWolfe

[IceColdHawk]

Dude it's the father of swords. What'd you expect 😄 

[Leqesai]

The biggest issue with Gram prime is that it retains the 5 riven disposition and can result in incredible stats.

 

Getting it to nearly 100% crit chance is pretty easy, and with blood rush you're multiplying your damage exponentially with every tier of combo. 

 

Unless the rest of the melee weapons match Gram's stats when melee 3.0 comes out it really is quite a bit better than any alternative in its weapon class.

 

 

[(XBOX)YoungGunn82]

2 hours ago, Xaxma said:

Why use anything else when you can Gram Prime?

Meh...I'm just waiting to be able use my Vasto P and Redeemer at the same time (one in each hand). I can one time lvl 120s with my Redeemer. 

Edited September 26, 2018 by (XB1)RDeschain82

[Peter]

Wait for 3.0 melee rework and see the magic.

[(PSN)LoisGordils]

2 hours ago, Xaxma said:

Why use anything else when you can Gram Prime?

Jeez, I don't know. Maybe if we enjoy the feel of a particular weapon? Maybe if we like how a weapon looks? Not everything is damage. Besides, Gram Prime is unnecessary, since most enemies die quickly.

Just because something is better doesn't mean you are forced to use it. Please, grow out of the meta mentality. You'll enjoy the game a lot more

Edited September 26, 2018 by (PS4)LoisGordils

[Julian_Skies]

2 hours ago, DarcnyssWolfe said:

Who's to say its not already balanced for the melee rework. Isnt there something weird with its combo counter or something?

It's combo counter lacked the x1.5 modifier and capped at x2/180, which Rebecca mentioned was an error and leftover work in progress code for melee 3.0

[(PSN)Double991]

Ahh yes, I remember when Galatine Prime was best sniper.

[(PSN)Lei-Lei_23]

1 hour ago, (PS4)Double991 said:

Ahh yes, I remember when Galatine Prime was best sniper.

You take that back.

It was the Hek, btw. 😞

[Peter]

Funny as no one complained about Scoliac full red crit dispo 5 with 30 meter range with wall slide full macro.

But yes, a low range heavy blade is unacceptable!

 

Curious.

Edited September 27, 2018 by Peter

[Teridax68]

Gram Prime feels like a really well situation to me: on one hand, Melee 3.0 is not far away, and we might be seeing pretty large overall rebalances to melee weapons that might readjust this weapon, so it might be too early to judge this thing that might change radically in a few months. On the other, Gram Prime is very obviously powercreeped in its current state, being a clear upgrade over Galatine Prime, arguably the best overall melee weapon before then, which was itself a serious instance of power creep. The fact that it also has Gram's incredibly generous Riven disposition is just icing on the cake.

I think the core problem here is that there's a fair degree of uncertainty as to DE's opinions on power creep, and vertical power in general: does DE want power creep in their game, or do they want to avoid it? Do the developers want certain weapons to be flat-out more powerful than others, or do they want to equalize weapons? On one hand, we've had many balance passes that have made more weapons viable, and DE has acknowledged on multiple occasions the negative impact power creep has had on the game, but on the other we've also recently had a massive rebalance to weapons that deliberately made some of them stronger than others in proportion to their MR requirement, plus now we have Gram Prime. It could very well be possible that DE may not even have a solid position on this, which is why we still have some portion of the game's balance that feels out of control. This concerns me, as I think that lack of control is responsible for a whole lot of enduring gameplay issues, and it's only by acknowledging the problem and tackling it honestly that DE is going to be able to improve things eventually.

[Julian_Skies]

@Teridax68 Actually, I'm fairly certain the Gram Prime simply has early Melee 3.0 stats. Why I say that? Nobody has tried powercreep on the Rubico Prime, in fact one person did and got very ostensibly shot down, and primaries already had their balance pass!

That sufficient proof for me this is just a sneak peek of how weapons will work then. Another evidence was it's broken combo multiplier, stated to having been melee 3.0 code left in by accident.

 

[Buttaface]

More of this? Slow, low range, Gram Prime is a sidegrade to preexisting top end melee options at best, maybe even a downgrade given the extra annoying ragdoll that messes with Tempo Royale. Arca Titron and zaws are better, even with lower riven disposition. Whips still king of clear up to very high levels.

Edited September 27, 2018 by Buttaface

[(PSN)cdzbrbr]

It seems that you either started playing 6 months ago or have a case of bad memory.

Let me help you refresh it.

Sicarus Prime was buffed when reintroduced and people claimed the same thing about it, a complete balance pass went through not long after basically turning every weapon into a sicarus prime. Most secondaries are status/crit hybrids.

Now we have the same case, Gram p is released when we are at the brink of a complete melee weapon pass.

So, other than disrupting the order with that misinformed melodrama, do you have anything constructive to add to the table?

Because the answer seems to be no.

[Fallen_Echo]

On 2018-09-26 at 7:27 PM, Xaxma said:

Why use anything else when you can Gram Prime?

Why not?

Dont tell me you are only exclusively running the latest top meta weapons in every sceniario.

Plenty of us have favorite weapons, i for example love the galatine prime and no matter how good something else is i still go back to it. People can go and show me a heavy zaw build what obliterates rooms but i still wouldnt change my sword.

 

[Xaxma]

I like how everyone immediately assumed I'm a standard "meta-slave" just because I brought it to everyone's attention that the Gram Prime is a disgusting, shameless powercreep of a weapon.

Am I angry that the Gram Prime, even without a riven, essentially trivializes all of my effort min-maxing my preferable melee weapons like the Scindo Prime, Dex Dakra, and Silva and Aegis Prime when I have pretty darn good rivens for them? Yes.

Am I going to start maining the Gram Prime from now on after? No, but it's going to sting in the back of my mind that I could be "doing this better" this whole time.

Is everyone here clearly in denial over how nasty of a precedent this is and are clearly ignoring how much better this thing is than literally anything else out there? YES.

 

[Autongnosis]

Le 26/09/2018 à 19:27, Xaxma a dit :

Gram Prime completely outclassed every weapon in the game. It's not even funny. 

It barely outclasses every heavy blade (if ever) in the game because of its bullS#&$ low combo counter, let alone every melee weapon. 

Oh, and its DPS is among the lowest of all melees. Hint: there is a reason why meta melees all have high base range.

Gram is very strong for sure, even more so with a riven, but i seriously think someone should stop playing simulacrum only...