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Nightwave + alerts removal feedback

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2 hours ago, Noble_One said:

...so why no just have both? i dont see how its hard at having random alerts AND a nora based syndicate that gives what she gives now. this way you have multiple ways of getting thing you want and please pretty much everyone.

Friggin... this. C'mon guys, bringing alerts back into cycle doesn't force us to ditch nightwave, there's no law that says we can't have both. 

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Wolf is awfull and his immortal sidekicks is just BAD. Most annoing and ugly boss on entire game. Why he so bulletspongy? DE fix it or its OK? Ah, no standing for his kill its just...bullS#&$.

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4 hours ago, (PS4)ErydisTheLucario said:

Really? Nitain is harder to get without alerts? Sorry guy, if anything Nightwave did make it easier to get Nitain and reactors and such. Also the reactor alerts are still there, they are gifts of the lotus. Don't get me wrong, im not defending Nightwave anymore, because I can see both sides of this argument, but don't downplay the nightwave rewards, at least for season 1, because you can get nitain, reactors and catalysts, it just requires you to play Nightwave challenges. 

I think that the Nitain argument is incredibly subjective. It did depend on what your personal schedule was and if you were online at the time. Personally I found I could get about 2 a day so I never really had an issue, that said I understand that people in other time zones were affectedly differently then myself and apparently had to chose between Nitain and sleep/work/other responsibilities. That system was not friendly to those individuals. As a flip side though Nightwave isn't friendly to those who can not devote hours of play at a time to the game or newer players who are unable to complete the various tasks to accomplish the requirements to progress in Nightwave.

Alerts were a quick 5-10 minute run with a guaranteed reward at the end. Nightwave is a accomplish X goal for points in a tier system for the rewards. Each tier provides its own boon, but to complete any tier you must complete a minimum for 2 challenges (2 5k challenges minimum). The tier system will allow you to buy 5 Nitain every 3 tiers (more or less). So if you are one once a week and have a full 8hrs of play you can (theoretically) get 5 Nitain. Now the flip side. You don't have a lot of time and can only do a few missions sporadically threw out the week. There is no guarantee you can complete the tier requirements to get the 5 Nitain meaning you are at a loss where as before it was a random chance to get it. In theory every day you logged on you could have gotten one making you have 7 to the 5 you do not have.

An easy solution for both parties? Return alerts but keep Nihhtwave. Alerts would provide the instant gratification for some players where as nightwave would allow players who missed X alert to still be able to get the reward relatively easy. Alerts could also change from being every 20 minutes or so to a few a day each set for 24 hours. 5 alerts for 24 hours should be sufficient. The Gift of the lotus shows this system to work and (on console at lest) the last Ayatan Treasure alert was easy to get with a rather generous timer of a week long.

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Posted (edited)

There should be an alternative way to farm nightwave standing/reputation instead of just doing weeklies and dailies. For example the fugitives are an alternative way of gaining standing; however, they give so little and their spawn chance is so low that it's not worth grinding primarily for them. Season passes should be designed to reward both the casual players and the hardcore farming players (typically ones that play a lot at once but take long breaks). If you take a week long vacation, the game punishes you for it, which imo wasn't a big issue in the past of warframe, and now we still need to login practically every week to get decent rewards from alerts aka nightwave. I don't want a game forcing me when I should play the game in order to get what I want. It should be a game requiring me to invest time in general, not you having to play during these certain days/hours in order to get this accomplishment, which is ironic because DE implemented nightwave in order to fix this issue from the old alert system. The good thing about the alert system in the past was, very rarely anyone did them because they were so unrewarding to begin with; now if we slack off from simply playing during certain hours we get further behind from other players, who not necessarily played more, but played during the right amount of spread-out time-frames enough times.

Also, the 15 cred rewards from the prestige levels after base level 30 aren't rewarding enough. They should give 50 creds each, imo...The base nightwave rewards are rewarding, but after that it's very unrewarding...

Also, for the wolf I have no issues with his fights, except the fact he has a garbage loot table like Stalker. Since the wolf is so rare, it ought to be mandatory for him to drop at least a random wolf hammer part, imo...

You guys might have increased the odds of encountering the wolf, but what about his garbage loot table? That's the biggest flaw with y'all thinking that most of everyone will get his hammer by the end of the event...

I'm beyond nightwave level 30 by the way, and I had to play every week and it's burning me out; is it good to be burn out from a game? Is content drought really an issue? I also got the hammer, but you know, making plat to buy it is obviously faster than farming for that piece of garbage...

Edited by CrystalSpark
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Posted (edited)

All the people saying "why not just have both", have any of you stopped to consider that maybe DE thinks that's just being too greedy? I mean cmon you already have exploiter orb showering you with Vallis gifts, thumpers short cutting the plains, gifts of the lotus giving rivens, catalysts/reactors, forma and now even skins, invasions also giving catalysts/reactors and sometimes even one from sorties when it's not throwing statues at you. Hell there's even an endo farm in the game now, everything but kuva is extremely simple to acquire these days.

I honestly don't think some of you will be happy until the Teralyst starts roaming the plains at night wearing a Santa hat and carrying a large sack that drops a random arcane every minute. Most new players don't even bother farming the non primed frames or non meta weapons so it's not like they need a huge amount of this stuff anyway and if you're an experienced player you have other means of getting what you need.

Stop being so damn greedy.

Edited by Zilchy
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Posted (edited)

I miss the spontaneity of the alert system. The rewards were lame though compared to other missions in star chart.

 

I'd see an alert for 12,000 credits and scratch my head because of how many star chart missions reward 20,000 credits.

 

 

Edited by Redfeather75

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Nightwave is good for intermediate players that have reached all the way up to at least Neptune. They should put alerts back for brand new players and restrict it to credits and basic resources. For example, Neural Sensor needed to craft Heat Sword when Lotus gives you the sword blueprint on (I think?) Mars... and that's well before Jupiter! But you could get Neural Sensor early in an Alert back then... But yeah, easier credits by itself before Neptune would restore an easier new player experience (with the large load of stuff you learn that you need to do!).

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Posted (edited)
10 hours ago, Luciole77 said:

It affects both new and experienced players in getting things like nitain / catalysts / reactors and so on.

.

How is it affecting the players? Since nightwave became a thing , these items are now obtainable 24/7 (if you have credits). The only fix here needed is to make these items a bit  more cheap or give us more wolf credits.

Now about saying alerts were better.. They weren't. I play this game a lot and all i saw was credits alerts most of the time to be honest.

Edit:

A plus to this is that the nightwave challenges are becoming way to easy  now (boring for my taste). So i don't understand why some are still complaining

Edited by _JustSomeone_
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22 hours ago, (PS4)BenHeisennberg said:

You don't.  Show me a build that requires umbral forma to function well.

RMfHlYk.png

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It took me two and a half years to farm Vauban via the old Alert system.  Vauban Prime was easier to farm than the OG version.  That was not a good thing.

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Just a quick note on Wolf Creds: There is nothing in the current offerings that I want or need after buying the sigils and the Saturn Six Ornament. I have all of the alt helmets from the old alert system, and a stockpile of Catalysts/Reactors/Nitain as well.

Maybe consider adding Forma for Wolf Creds as well? Those were in the old random alert system, and it's the one resource that I still find myself having in low amounts.

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7 hours ago, Shadow-Spawn said:

DE should just bring back the quick alert system in combination with the grindy no fun to play nightwave system - that way players can choose for themselves what they want to play.

-THE GAME- ... Players are just playing THE GAME as it is normally. That's ALL NightWave is!  It's just "Hey, ya know that Sabotage you're gonna grind in Relics to get that Prime Junk?  Here, do it 3 times and get points..."  That's IT, for the most part.

There are a few harder, more specific tasks, sure, but those aren't -necessary- to get to rank 30.  People need to stop making more of this than it is.

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1 hour ago, Zilchy said:

All the people saying "why not just have both", have any of you stopped to consider that maybe DE thinks that's just being too greedy? I mean cmon you already have exploiter orb showering you with Vallis gifts, thumpers short cutting the plains, gifts of the lotus giving rivens, catalysts/reactors, forma and now even skins, invasions also giving catalysts/reactors and sometimes even one from sorties when it's not throwing statues at you. Hell there's even an endo farm in the game now, everything but kuva is extremely simple to acquire these days.

I honestly don't think some of you will be happy until the Teralyst starts roaming the plains at night wearing a Santa hat and carrying a large sack that drops a random arcane every minute. Most new players don't even bother farming the non primed frames or non meta weapons so it's not like they need a huge amount of this stuff anyway and if you're an experienced player you have other means of getting what you need.

Stop being so damn greedy.

Wish I could upvote this more, but instead I'll just quote it for it's significance! This is SO very much the truth!  It's getting to the point, I'm really concerned more about the New Player experience when they interact with these people on forums...moreso than I am about the NPexperience in-game.  

If anything, things ARE getting too easy.  I LOVE the grind. It's why I PLAY Warframe, partially!  I love always having something to work towards.  Now, DE has been making things TOO fast, imo, all because people can't stop making stupid demands >.<  

AND THEN THEY COMPLAIN THERE'S NOTHING TO DO AND THE GAME IS TOO EASY!!  The AUDACITY, I swear!

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Posted (edited)
6 minutes ago, (PS4)Taishin_Ishu said:

snip

I'm starting to like the idea of tagging names in opposing threads. 

Like say A makes a thread and a lot of arguments for making something easier, and B comes and says that there's no content / challenge, tag A in said post and make A deal with it. 

In reality no. This is a very toxic way to behave. 

But oh gosh it would be satisfying. 

Edited by sleepychewbacca

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4 minutes ago, sleepychewbacca said:

I'm starting to like the idea of tagging names in opposing threads. 

Like say A makes a thread and a lot of arguments for making something easier, and B comes and says that there's no content / challenge, tag A in said post and make A deal with it. 

In reality no. This is a very toxic way to behave. 

But oh gosh it would be satisfying. 

Did I...miss something?

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Just now, (PS4)Taishin_Ishu said:

Did I...miss something?

Oh no.

Just replying to the spirit of what you and Zilchy said. 

Anyone making demands for a lot of things should be accountable when it proves disastrous. That was just simply what I was getting at lol. 

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1 minute ago, sleepychewbacca said:

Oh no.

Just replying to the spirit of what you and Zilchy said. 

Anyone making demands for a lot of things should be accountable when it proves disastrous. That was just simply what I was getting at lol. 

Ah, gotcha, lol.  

Yeah..Imagine if restaurants worked the way forum posters seem to think game devs work?   Just strolling in and telling the chef how to cook literally everything, even though you, yourself, have little to no culinary experience...  They'd laugh ya out of the place.

Feedback is one thing ("This steak seems a bit undercooked") but 1) belongs in FEEDBACK and 2) it's far different from just BLASTING devs for making an attempt and improving the game. ("This is the worst steak ever because I said so! HAVE THE CHEF FIRED! I WANT A REFUND!"  "......Ma'am, the steak was free...")

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My personal feedback about nightwave , even though I've already expressed it so many times in other sections of the forum :

- Nightwave feels like a chore. While I once could drop and pick back the game at leisure without feeling like I had missed on something unique or important or like I had 'fallen behind' now I can not do that anymore. This mode forces you to play day after day and week after week in order to keep on completing its challenges. I do not like this.

 - It is too grindy and unrewarding. With the previous system I could do one mission and get myself a nice catalyst blueprint within 5 minutes . Now I have to complete a lot of tasks I do not need , accept the fact this might take me hours or even days....and in the end...? The player only gets 50 wolf creds every 3 ranks , aka 30.000 standing , aka 1 week worth of doing every single weekly.....aka....it will take them 2 weeks to get one catalyst or a reactor.

- It is not newbie friendly nor solo player friendly . A new player will not be able to hunt a Hydrolist . A solo player won't be able to do challenges "with a friend" . 


TLDR : I want the old alert system back. Now I know this won't bring it back....but please, rework the current system so that it doesn't feel just as bad as it actually does regarding these 3 aspects I listed.

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Posted (edited)
12 hours ago, ReaverKane said:

Not really, they aren't.
You had 4 chances at nitain per day, that's 28 chances per week. With Nightwave, at best you'll have 15 per week...
Yes it does seem that NightWave has more because most of the time you'd get one of the 4 chances per day... Thing is, Nightwave Nitain comes at a cost, and that cost isn't Wolf creds, it's not getting other stuff...
With Alerts you could get 5-10 Nitain a week without much work, and along with that you could get Catalysts and Reactors, Forma, Credits, Helmets, Tellurium, Void Traces, Aura Mods, Nightmare mods, etc. Basically you could have all the rewards AND the Nitain...
Now to get Nitain you have to choose, do you want Nitain, or that Reactor? Do you want Nitain, or the Helmet? Do you want a Aura Mod, or the Weapon skin?

In terms of Alerts vs Nightwave, Nightwave is at best a weak side-grade, or more like a downgrade of Alerts, not an upgrade.

And the rest isn't much better either.

Fomo dude, not everyone is going to be on at all times of the day to get the nitain with old alerts. I didn't get very much myself when alerts were still a thing, nitain for me was few and far between. Most times I would go a week, maybe two before I got one Nitain. Nightwave made getting it much easier for everyone. Im not counting cosmetics because they arent absolutely necessary and I got most of the auras when alerts were a thing. And you make it sound like the only way to get catalysts and reactors is by Nightwave. Sure its easy to grind and spend 100 wolf creds, but gifts of the lotus are still a thing. Again, this is about nitain accessibility for me, and I think nightwave made getting it much easier for EVERYONE, unless they specifically wanted some sort of helmet or aura. I see what you mean in the regard of if you want something you gotta sacrifice something else, but that whole "alert was better because I can no life the game" argument doesn't work, not for most people. Not everyone is on Warframe specifically all the time, we do play other games, why should we have to just sit around for hours and wait for the nitain to show up on alerts. I'm incredibly sorry if this came off as rude, thats not wha im going for, but jeez, this whole nitain acquisition between nightwave and alerts is ridiculous. Thats the one thing nightwave did well was make getting nitain easier.

Edited by (PS4)ErydisTheLucario

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Posted (edited)
18 minutes ago, (PS4)ErydisTheLucario said:

Fomo dude, not everyone is going to be on at all times of the day to get the nitain. It took me two weeks before I had the chance o getting one Nitain, and thats because I got lucky and was on at the right time. The other stuff in Nightwave like the Cosmetics and aura are not needed for most people. Most people need the Nitain, and Nigthwave made it so much easier to get. The only real stuff worth some, if not most peoples times are the reactors and catalysts, which yes I can see a point in not getting something, but come on, you can't say Nitain was easy for EVERYONE to get with the old alerts.

Umm what? Most of the auras in the game are exclusive to Alerts/Nightwave. Every player needs at least some of those Auras in order to actually have *any* auras for their frames. And the weapons while not amazing are worth MR, again something that every player needs, and are primarily useful weapons to low MR players (who no longer have access to them since they can't do most of the nightwave challenges).

Also most players early on who need this stuff don't have access to most of the nightwave challenges and couldn't do them even if they wanted to so that's not 50 Wolf Creds every 1-2 weeks, it's more 50 wolf creds every 3-4 weeks, by which point they will have access to waaaaaaaaaay better weapons from their clans and the market.

Most of the stuff in nightwave you may not care about but players just starting the game *DO* and they're the ones who get the least access to it now because it's locked behind challenges that they can't complete or don't even have access to yet.

Nightwave succeeds at one thing and one thing only. Giving veterans who have completed everything a task to do. Beyond that it fails in just about every way Alerts failed, as well as some areas where they did an okay job.

Edited by (NSW)Sniperfox47
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4 hours ago, sleepychewbacca said:

Oh no.

Just replying to the spirit of what you and Zilchy said. 

Anyone making demands for a lot of things should be accountable when it proves disastrous. That was just simply what I was getting at lol. 

Actually thats something I could get behind. Though similarly if they have an idea that is implemented and turns out well, they get a small reward...like a new glyph or something.

 

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2 minutes ago, (NSW)Sniperfox47 said:

Umm what? Most of the auras in the game are exclusive to Alerts/Nightwave. Every player needs at least some of those Auras in order to actually have *any* auras for their frames. And the weapons while not amazing are worth MR, again something that every player needs, and are primarily useful weapons to low MR players (who no longer have access to them since they can't do most of the nightwave challenges).

Also most players early on who need this stuff don't have access to most of the nightwave challenges and couldn't do them even if they wanted to so that's not 50 Wolf Creds every 1-2 weeks, it's more 50 wolf creds every 3-4 weeks, by which point they will have access to waaaaaaaaaay better weapons from their clans and the market.

Most of the stuff in nightwave you may not care about buy players just starting the game *DO* and they're the ones who get the least access to it now because it's locked behind challenges that they can't complete or don't even have access to yet.

Nightwave succeeds at one thing and one thing only. Giving veterans who have completed everything a task to do. Beyond that it fails in just about every way Alerts failed, as well as some areas where they did an okay job.

Fair enough, but as I said, it makes nitain easier to obtain, at least for those around my MR who actuslly gave a damn when night wave first came out.  I guess im in the minority when I say I only buy the essentials, my bad. I still stand behind my nitain comments though.

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16 hours ago, Luciole77 said:

Do not get me wrong but removing the alerts system was not a good thing for the game. It affects both new and experienced players in getting things like nitain / catalysts / reactors and so on. I loved the challenges in nora but I think that playing the things that appeared in the alerts for nora was not an interesting thing! I think nora should be viewed more like another union than the others! Nora syndicate should have its own items such as relic packs, umbra forms, weapons mod, some kuva package, arcanes, and so on. I think the alerts should return because it is almost a kind of tutorial for beginners in the game and that give life to the game ... I was very happy when there appeared catalysts / reactors / forms in the alerts! For me they are two different things and for different purposes. With alerts the game comes to life in some way. I hope DE will rethink the matter.  I'm feeling trapped in this system and would like more freedom!

 

Sorry my english(google translator).

Yes please!

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15 hours ago, (PS4)guzmantt1977 said:

Sorry mate the subject has always been: if you didn't participate in any alert or event, you never got that reward. Here's the sequence so you can verify:

 

 

 

So, nice try, but no. The "we never had a system where we didn't get the rewards because we missed the alert or didn't do what we didn't want to do" argument has  demonstrably, always been false for every single alert and event. You're the one who tried to shift the goalposts to "but we could have gotten the rewards another time" which is true, and remains true with nightwave as it arguably is for most stuff (excluding the founder's package, of course). In your time in the game how many unique things have there been that never came back? Remember if the number is small then those are probably statistical outliers and you should have resisted the urge to be "that guy". 🙄

You either REALLY dont understand the moment where you changed the topic, in which case I pity you, or you are trolling, in which case I pity you as well.

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Posted (edited)
17 minutes ago, (PS4)ErydisTheLucario said:

Fair enough, but as I said, it makes nitain easier to obtain, at least for those around my MR who actuslly gave a damn when night wave first came out.  I guess im in the minority when I say I only buy the essentials, my bad. I still stand behind my nitain comments though.

Basically what it comes down to is:

If you only buy nitain, yes nitain is easier to get.

If you only want to buy Catalysts/Reactors, yes they are easier to get.

If you only want to buy Corrosive Projection and other specific mods, yes they are easier to get.

If you specifically want specifically X it is easier to get.

However if you want general stuff that's part of Nightwave/Alerts you're in a *much* worse situation with nightwave, especially if you can't do all of the Nightwave Acts. The rotating store and agonizing rate of Wolf Cred spawns just adds to this.

There's already been a bunch of alternatives suggested by other people including myself, but here's another. Ditch the rotating store and be quite a bit more generous with Wolf Cred drops (double or even triple). Instead have a store with everything but only in specific numbers. One Reactor, One Catalyst, one of each Aura and Helmet, two of each weapon, 3 sets of 5 nitain, etc. The amount resets on a weekly basis so you can get One Reactor per week but can't just buy up a bunch all at once, giving you more credits to spend on the other stuff you need (including nitains).

I really hope things change with Wave 2 because Wave 1 has left me really exhausted with the system and with helping new friends and clanmates navigate it. It used to be that in your first couple days of playing you'd get a bunch of alert weapons and then move onto bigger and better stuff but now I've got people with access to much better and higher-MR weapons just getting access to these MR0 Alert Melees for the first time and with having to choose between getting the affinity to master these crappy weapons, grabbing the cosmetics for frames they like, grabbing auras they need, or holding off for who knows what's going to come in the store next week. God forbid you grab Energy Siphon this week just to have Corrosive Projection show up next week and oopsie you can't get any more Wolf Creds so sucks to be you.

Edited by (NSW)Sniperfox47
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