Enough with the "Gild one modular item" in Nightwave

[TARINunit9]

There is probably a good place for this challenge, but that place is not Nightwave

"Use three Forma" is already iffy because Forma are a limited resource we're expected to pay Platinum for, but at least they're "repeatable"; you can use them on any weapon at any time, even weapons that have been Forma'd already.

Modular items are not "repeatable" like this. They have all the annoying downsides of Forma, and more, and none of the mitigating factors that make "use three Forma" slightly more tolerable

See, Modular items cost weapon or companion slots. There is no way around this, AND weapon/companion slots cost Plat to acquire. You can grind for Forma, and you're expected to keep level 30 items around anyway so there's no extra stress there. You can't just grind for weapon slots if you're full up. What happens if you're full up on weapon and companion slots and you're suddenly told "go get a new Zaw or Kitgun or Moa so you can gild it?" Spend plat? Sell a weapon you invested time and energy and potentially Catalysts and Forma into? Not good game design

Oh but there's more. You're also expected to grind all the Kitguns and Zaws and Moas for mastery rank. Some of us already have collected them all. Then Nightwave comes along and tells you to collect another one. But... how? We've already collected them all? Now we have to pick one and collect it AGAIN, using up the same plains/vallis resources, using up more crafting time in the forge, leveling a weapon we've already collected and leveled. At least when Nightwave tells us to use Forma, we're going to be leveling a stronger version of our already-collected weapons, not a weaker one

This was just not good game design. We already have incentive to gild modular items. This additional incentive doesn't mesh with the existing incentive, and makes many players feel punished for gilding too many items too soon

[BLI7Z]

I hate this one. The three formas one... hell, I'm even willing to buy formas with plat to do that one. But this one just feels like someone's spitting on my face and telling me to go %$#@ myself.

EDIT> I hate kitguns and zaw's, and moas... I made all of them for mastery rank's sake. But having to go into that again just to get some petty nightwave standing for some petty rewards... not good enough for me to use my time in it. Not rewarding, not fun. Not a step forward in any way. 

Edited June 17, 2019 by BLI7Z

[sharkstrangler]

Luckily I was already building a Plague Kripath Zaw before this came out, but I can see how if you already have all of the modular items this can SUCK. It takes me like 2 hours to get all the Pyrol I need to build even 1 Zaw and to think this is a thing they want us to do every few weeks huuuuurrrrrtttttssssss.

So annoying how they cut the majority of the acts in half, but kept the ones that can literally force you to pay money at some points. FFS, weren't they once called a humanitarian company at some point?

[(PSN)Hikuro-93]

Agreed, I dislike both of those. Feel punishing and pointless when compared to other challenges. I can bear with the forma one so long as new gear is released. But gilding, I have no excuse to build a new modular gear unless DE releases an event Plague Star style, which brings new modular items for us to try. Which happens rarely to never.

[Gruiz]

If only amp gild doesn't need rank 3 quill. Looking for toroid in Fortuna is painful af

[Chewarette]

Guess I'll finally build that 227 Amp (not even sure I have some Vox Solaris Standing remaining though).

[Teridax68]

Agreed, and in general, I think all "spend resources" challenges need to go. Spending Forma, gilding an item, or slotting Ayatan stars into a sculpture are all tasks that presume the player a) has the resources to complete the challenge, and b) has a valid reason to do those things, when in practice a) many players early on may not have those resources, or be able to easily access them, and b) many advanced players are likely to have already Forma'd and gilded the items they wanted, making further applications redundant. Ultimately, none of these "challenges" really have gameplay of their own, either, as they don't actually encourage the player to play, so much as just pay for Nightwave Standing with whichever resource they accumulated.

What's worse for me, though, is that these resource challenges have been having a chilling effect on my resource consumption: because of these challenges, I've been holding back on using Forma and putting Ayatan stars into my sculptures, because I've been driven to hoard both just in case a Nightwave challenge comes along. Just yesterday, I crafted a Zaw with some Plague Star parts, but held off from gilding it just in case the challenge came up... and sure enough, it did. Had I gilded my Zaw the way I had before Nightwave, I would've had to waste a whole bunch of time, resources and Ostron Standing, plus a provisory weapon slot, to progress. Thus, I think it may be in DE's interest to nix these types of challenges, and instead give us challenges that make us play in missions, and can't rely on pre-accumulated resources to be bypassed. They've already done good work in adjusting the rewards and challenges in Intermission, and removing the "with friends" requirement was a good move; removing the resource challenges could be the next step towards an excellent system.

[TaylorsContraction]

On the topic of the nightwave challenge that requires gilding an item, I fully agree with op and others that it's not a good challenge. I can live with the forma one, but this one just pus players in that awkward position where they either sell a maxed out lower grade amp and rebuild it or suck it up and skip the challenge...

[Guest]

TBH this one is super easy, just make a Balla Dagger, put Covert Lethality, Ivara on Adaro, max it, Gild, then sell.

[Urlan]

I agree that I don't much care for the gilding and 3 forma challenges, I would prefer them replaced with other more appropriate play based challenges.

[Steel_Rook]

In the past, I've called these "Inventory Challenges," i.e. tasks which challenge not your skills of the game, but what currently have in your inventory. I'm of the opinion that these need to just not exist, because they're pointless. If you already have the items to sacrifice, then it's a meaningless challenge. If you don't, then it's just a chore. As much as I dislike the "x minutes of Survival" challenges, at least everyone has to do them from scratch and they require us to... You know, DO something. Inventory Challenges just create a sense of paranoia. "Should I guild my Kitgun... It's Saturday evening. Maybe I'll wait for Monday and see if it's a challenge first."

That said, it seems like most of what DE were planning for Nightwave just didn't end up happening. You'll note we got Nightwave Intermission with no new story, no new rewards and most of the same missions. It seems to me that the majority of tweaks we've gotten have been the simple ones which don't require a lot of new code. Fewer, more valuable challenges, a different reward progression, etc. My guess is they had something larger planned but couldn't pull it off in time and having neither Nightwave nor Alerts was becoming a problem. So what we got - rather like Melee 2.9 - is Nightwave 2.9. Basically, it's "Whatever changes we could make at the time, more to come after TennoCon."

[(XBOX)Hyperion Rexx]

If you've not gilded your mote amp I'm pretty sure that counts (I'm sure many people will correct me if I'm wrong).

Agree it's not a good challenge but have to say with plague star running atm at least it's good timing for an awful lot of players who'll be building those zaws.

[DrBorris]

Idea for a change that keeps the same spirit:

Use a Gilded modular item for five missions. 

 

[Tsukinoki]

7 hours ago, Datam4ss said:

TBH this one is super easy, just make a Balla Dagger, put Covert Lethality, Ivara on Adaro, max it, Gild, then sell.

IF you have a slot, sure.
If you don't have a weapon slot?  Well go spend 12 plat, or sell a weapon you're actively using with no other recourse!

That's the worst thing about this "challenge".
If you have the slot available its not that bad.
If you don't have a slot though?  It's just a paywall without a way around it.

30 minutes ago, DrBorris said:

Idea for a change that keeps the same spirit:

Use a Gilded modular item for five missions. 

Hek, I wouldn't mind if it was "Forma a modular item", because you can only forma an item after its gilded.
And forma can be freely farmed...

[DoomFruit]

8 hours ago, Teridax68 said:

What's worse for me, though, is that these resource challenges have been having a chilling effect on my resource consumption: because of these challenges, I've been holding back on using Forma and putting Ayatan stars into my sculptures, because I've been driven to hoard both just in case a Nightwave challenge comes along.

This. This right here has become a major problem. I've got several bits of gear that I like and want to forma, but haven't done yet because I might end up missing one of these stupid nightwave "challenges". Gilding likewise is also something I hate, because I've already obtained and ground the mastery out for all of these double grind items. I'm not building another thing, replacing the resources it cost and levelling it to 30 again. I've already got them. I don't need another.

[Drasiel]

Yup. Hate this challenge. it's fairly substantial investment of resources and time and you can't even potato non gilded modulars to make leveling them enjoyable. Until there are new parts I don't want to waste standing resources and time on a throwaway item just for nightwave. 😞

[SordidDreams]

11 hours ago, (XB1)Hyperion Rexx said:

If you've not gilded your mote amp I'm pretty sure that counts

Even if you have, you can build another one very cheaply and quickly.

[(PSN)guzmantt1977]

20 hours ago, TARINunit9 said:

"Use three Forma" is already iffy because Forma are a limited resource we're expected to pay Platinum for, but at least they're "repeatable"; you can use them on any weapon at any time, even weapons that have been Forma'd already.

What are you even talking about? Forma can be had for free, so it's not anything that you're expected to have to pay Platinum for. So seriously, what are you talking about? 

[TARINunit9]

2 hours ago, (PS4)guzmantt1977 said:

What are you even talking about? Forma can be had for free, so it's not anything that you're expected to have to pay Platinum for. So seriously, what are you talking about? 

Yes, you CAN grind for Forma, and we do, but DE expects you to pay plat for a couple extra every now and then. That's not a bad thing in a F2P game, not in and of itself

[(PSN)guzmantt1977]

3 hours ago, TARINunit9 said:

Yes, you CAN grind for Forma, and we do, but DE expects you to pay plat for a couple extra every now and then. That's not a bad thing in a F2P game, not in and of itself

No, DE hopes that I will pay for a couple extra, now and then. 

Of course with plague star going on, I can do a few quick runs and buy a stack. With nightwave 1.5 going on, I was tasked with opening relics, and guess who got a bunch of blueprints? I burned through quite a bit of forma, not just because I was being rewarded for doing so, but because I was building weapons and wanted to really try one out. In all I think I spent 5 more than they wanted me to on a total of 4 items. 

That's how little I fear missing out if I forma stuff outside of the challenge. And a big part of that is because not only is forma free, it's abundant too. And as weekly challenges, you can run some relics on day 1, and use the mobile app to make sure that you have lots of that free forma by the end of the week. 

[tychondus]

You can gild amps. And they don't require weapon slot

Edited June 18, 2019 by tychondus

[Lazarow]

I also hate use 3 forma and gild modular made my own thread yesterday so Ill put it here so we can pile them up

Link to relevant threads

Spoiler

Intermission start at page 106 link should open at that page and it has lot complains about the forma challenge

 

 

 

Edited June 18, 2019 by AwkwardLazarow

[Tsukinoki]

49 minutes ago, tychondus said:

You can gild amps. And they don't require weapon slot

Actually amps do have their own dedicated inventory slots: 8 to start with and additional ones costing 12 plat per 2.
Currently there aren't enough prisms for that to be a problem, but who knows where that'll end up in the future.
Add onto that how annoying it is to rank up Prisms...outside of leeching affinity for them.

And further, not everyone has access to crafting amps, so the point of this taking up a companion or weapon slot still stands as being a huge problem because if you don't have one of those slots free then either spend real money to buy more (Pay to Proceed), or sell an item you've invested time and forma into just to complete a nightwave challenge!
That's objectively a crappy move.

[(PSN)AyinDygra]

Another thing to note about Gilding Amps... they require a person to have rank 3 with the Quills, which requires killing several Teralysts. Steam achievements have been cited showing less than 5% of Steam players have defeated the Eidolons to even have access to the resource needed to rank up with the Quills. (I have 2 amps ready for gilding, but can't, personally. My friend and I only get a chance to play together MAYBE once a week for a couple hours, and eidolons haven't been a priority. Nor am I able to solo them yet, having zero arcanes, or desire to even do that.)

Fortuna's items are much easier to acquire from a rep grind standpoint, from my personal point in the game, but in my life position, getting all the resources to craft the pieces, then rank up the gun/moa to 30, then gild, is the equivalent of an "Elite Weekly" challenge that will take all my time for a whole week's playing time between 2 jobs, and a 3-day non-play weekend out of town coming up.

Cetus's Zaws are the next best choice for me, but I've ignored Cetus for the most part in my time playing Warframe, and am only rank 4, trying for rank 5... so if I spend that standing on Zaw stuff, it's holding me back from a personal goal to do a chore that Nightwave is telling me to change my priorities to fulfill on its schedule, rather than mine.

 

 

And when I complete these chores, I'm not happy I've fulfilled a "challenge", I'm just glad it's done and I've checked off some arbitrary checklist for points... and NOW I can get back to achieving my actual goals that will move me forward in the actual game.

I hate WASTING resources, like Nightwave is forcing us to do in these acts.

 

[(XBOX)dude1286]

This "challenge", along with the 3 formas and Ayatan sculpture "challenges" are terrible. I no longer fully slot Ayatan Sculptures just in case the "challenge" comes up, which means I no longer get endo from them. I no longer forma any items, and before Nightwave I had every item available to me potato'd and forma'd. Now I just wait for the "challenge" to appear again. This used to extend content releases for me a little bit, but now the Jovian Accord was finished in less than 2 days which were workdays. Once they add new gilding items, I'll build them but won't gild until the "challenge" comes up again. Until then, I'll just build a cheap Zaw, level it, gild it, then return it to Hokk to return some of the standing I just wasted. This wasn't the intention of Nightwave, to make people do less of the game for anticipation for these gear checks. They need to be outright removed in Season 2.