Veterans misunderstand why they don't enjoy playing the game anymore

[CuChulainnWD]

I would like to thank the OP for knowing exactly what is going on in my head. I also noticed that the OP started this game in 2018, and that most of those that agree with OP started around the same time. I've not bothered to check to see what his in game hours are like, but I have a fair idea that they are under 2K.

Most Vets that have played Warframe since 2013, still playing today have anywhere from 5-10K hours or more. That means they have been dedicated to playing Warframe consistently, and most likely daily since its release. Funny how when I started back in 2015 and just under 3.6K hours in game, I never heard Vets complaining about content drought.

You see OP, Warframe has changed a lot in those 4 years, and not for the better. 4 Years ago a Tenno would cross half the map to res one another because you had to pay for revives, and if you lost 4 revives, you lost that frame until reset. 4 years ago there were Tower Keys that encourages endless team play. 4 Years ago there was more balance and challenge in the game. 4 Years ago the quests were not released and we got to hurry up and wait when new lore was being released. 4 Years ago Warframes were a little more balanced with one another. OP you've barely scratched the surface to see how watered down Warframe has become. Heck even I have missed many of the big changes Warframe went through before my time. DE HAS changed the direction, feel and flow of Warframe, and it is NOT Veteran friendly. 4 Years ago it was. There were Raids, and Endless Tower Keys to grind for, and events that were entertaining. All of that is gone, stripped away from the game. Any challenge that was there was stripped away for the casual player.

So OP, again thankyou for knowing exactly what the Veteran Experience and troubles are. Thankyou for your myopic insight into the actual troubles Veterans have with Warframe at this time. You sir are a genius.

[Midas]

9 minutes ago, CuChulainnWD said:

I would like to thank the OP for knowing exactly what is going on in my head. I also noticed that the OP started this game in 2018, and that most of those that agree with OP started around the same time. I've not bothered to check to see what his in game hours are like, but I have a fair idea that they are under 2K.

Most Vets that have played Warframe since 2013, still playing today have anywhere from 5-10K hours or more. That means they have been dedicated to playing Warframe consistently, and most likely daily since its release. Funny how when I started back in 2015 and just under 3.6K hours in game, I never heard Vets complaining about content drought.

You see OP, Warframe has changed a lot in those 4 years, and not for the better. 4 Years ago a Tenno would cross half the map to res one another because you had to pay for revives, and if you lost 4 revives, you lost that frame until reset. 4 years ago there were Tower Keys that encourages endless team play. 4 Years ago there was more balance and challenge in the game. 4 Years ago the quests were not released and we got to hurry up and wait when new lore was being released. 4 Years ago Warframes were a little more balanced with one another. OP you've barely scratched the surface to see how watered down Warframe has become. Heck even I have missed many of the big changes Warframe went through before my time. DE HAS changed the direction, feel and flow of Warframe, and it is NOT Veteran friendly. 4 Years ago it was. There were Raids, and Endless Tower Keys to grind for, and events that were entertaining. All of that is gone, stripped away from the game. Any challenge that was there was stripped away for the casual player.

So OP, again thankyou for knowing exactly what the Veteran Experience and troubles are. Thankyou for your myopic insight into the actual troubles Veterans have with Warframe at this time. You sir are a genius.

Cross the map? I'd just let em burn to pay the price 😉

[KIREEK]

1 hour ago, --C--Nehra said:

Says who! Lol, u sound salty af. And all your statements about newbie content thrashing our arse is a load of bovine fecal matter that you just pulled outta thin air. 

Says me, i have seen many, many squads and i know what others players do in a mission, it's disapointing sometimes.

I'm only salty when players overestimate themselves and make it seem like the game went great or that they are ready for the next sortie, or more waves in a defense.

My expectations in a random game are very, very low, regardless of who appears, atleast when i'm disapointed, i'm not all that much disapointed.

[vegetosayajin]

I think OP is mostly right in his analysis.The solution too but that depends on you expectations on what you want to do when you log in.For a LONG time I played Quake 3 Arena vs bots on one map for an hour a day because I liked the gameplay, wanted to wind off from work/gf etc and now that role is taken entirely from warframe.
The "problem" is when you get all the mods, all the arcanes that you need, all the focus etc you need a challenge to test it and the only option now is to do a 2 h survival on mot to get to a challenging level.And even than, when you can easily beat the hordes it doesn't matter if it's 2 hours or 10.
As for Quake(or some other game) the enemies don't get stupid powerful, neither do you and it's up to your skill to be as best you can be.
That's why you can play an RTS (for example Starcraft) for years and years and you always strive to be better.Even the champions have to continue to play constantly because you have to keep your shape all the time.The game doesn't change, but your skill does.
As for WF when you get all the stuff and know(at least a little) what to do and when to do it - it becomes more about the gear and less about the skill.
No matter how much skill you have you can't go to mot with the regular mods and a braton, skana and lato, no op for example and expect to survive a long time or even do any damage.

[RunsWithChainsaws]

Honestly, I'm not a vet, but what drives me away from other games is that they become TOO challenging.  I don't mind doing the same mission over and over again as long as I get the rewards, but having to do the same mission 10 times with every time failing with no reward at all....then I go play something else for a few hours to a few months.  I think the issue with games is that some of the people who play them are just easily bored.  I played roughly 25,000 hours of GW2, but I never played any of the more challenging content and much of some of the expansions story languish undone.  I stopped playing that game because a lot of the story content and some of the festival content is going to be pretty miserable with challenge, plus the controls there suck and that game is laggy for my potato machine.  Someone in the game industry needs to figure out how to make challenge fun rather than very likely miserable.  At least make the failures worth doing, like maybe a token system with tiny amounts of it for failing.  All I know is every single invasion spy mission I've done this week has been ruined by level 50 zealots.  FYI, I've been playing Warframe for less than 5 months, my star chart progress is currently being held up by scanning Grineer drones on Uranus (I've been at that point for at least a month because I haven't seen a Grineer drone yet), but I have some progress on Neptune and Sedna thanks to the void.  Spy missions...ugh...I can't do the nightmare ones because I can only get so good at hacking just like my typing hasn't improved in speed in the past 45 years I've been doing that.

  

[KIREEK]

2 hours ago, Bloop said:

 

What's wrong with wanting some content that actually incentivizes you to keep going?

Going where?

Someone doing a random sortie, gaining a riven and not knowing if a riven is good or not and requiring others to state their opinion or someone requesting a taxi for a sortie mission where not even the original basic mission is unlocked by them, how does more content keep them going?

If players are asking for endgame and still use the front door on a venus corpus outpost rescue, where do you think those players will go, they won't go anywhere, they will remain where they should be to begin with, instead of asking for endgame.

More content? fine, railjack is also a progression based gamemode, but you don't jump straight to the end, just like some players, even those with a couple thousand missions should not be past venus and instead appear on sorties.

That's my problem, some believe that they are an acceptable level to even demand engame, most can't even handle the current game content, let alone more.

[DOOMPATRIOT]

hace 14 horas, (PS4)InkCN dijo:

The more you try to enjoy the game, the more painful it become. To the point, if you keep trying again and again, you'll find yourself hating the game.

Phase 5: The solution

STOP !! Stop playing Warframe (at least for some amount of time). And by how DE are extremely ambitious, you can only expect the updates to be bigger and bigger but also more and more scarce in time. Updates will never be more than a temporary bandage to your problem.

 

 

 

You are right on this one, stop playing because no matter what happen DE won't do anything for the vereran player, and you are ok with that.

hace 14 horas, (PS4)InkCN dijo:

 Playing a game countless of hours every day isn't sustainable unless unlimited amount of content (spoiler alert it's Imposible).

Well Borderlands/ Path of Exile/ Enter the Gungeon do it good, and all of them are looters.

hace 14 horas, (PS4)InkCN dijo:

The solution:

 

 

DE has to know the concerns of the game( which probably alreay know , but they are just ignoring it): there is no sustainable content, no reward for your skills or hard content at all (Wyrmius is the hardest thing to do and it is a mini-game).

But it seems that DE will never do any of these, because they got a lot of money just for the roombas(ROOMBAS) they know that they don't need to put actual content in the game to earn a profit, Just hype it out it and putting tennogen ( DE doesn't even make those skins).

But what do I know I am just another of the 50 million registered loosers.

Edited August 23, 2019 by DOOMPATRIOT

[Corvid]

Regarding resource stockpiling, I must wonder if some kind of storage cap would help (on a per-resource basis, of course). If you limit how much of a given material can be held at any one time by a player, new players and vets will be a lot closer in terms of how much they have built up. New items and systems could be balanced accordingly, and DE wouldn't necessarily need to make up a new resource every time they want to bottleneck our progression.

It would also have an impact on consumables, which would be a good thing in my eyes. Energy pads and the spamming thereof are part of why the energy economy is so out of whack.

[RunsWithChainsaws]

All I can say is boring is better than miserable, and I've heard they are going to put disruption mode missions on all the planets.  I know that the Jupiter one is WAY OUT OF SCALE with the difficulty of the rest of the nodes, so I don't even want to see what disruption will be like on the higher level planets.  Will people get their progress reset with respect to access to arbitrations?  If they do, those people will complain, but if they don't, and people who don't currently have arbies  will have to do the disruptions to get them, those people will complain.  To be totally fair to all, maybe disruptions shouldn't be nodes required for access to arbitrations.  They need to think of something else to lock behind the disruption nodes.

[xXDeadsinxX]

15 minutes ago, KIREEK said:

Going where?

Someone doing a random sortie, gaining a riven and not knowing if a riven is good or not and requiring others to state their opinion or someone requesting a taxi for a sortie mission where not even the original basic mission is unlocked by them, how does more content keep them going?

If players are asking for endgame and still use the front door on a venus corpus outpost rescue, where do you think those players will go, they won't go anywhere, they will remain where they should be to begin with, instead of asking for endgame.

More content? fine, railjack is also a progression based gamemode, but you don't jump straight to the end, just like some players, even those with a couple thousand missions should not be past venus and instead appear on sorties.

That's my problem, some believe that they are an acceptable level to even demand engame, most can't even handle the current game content, let alone more.

I definitely agree with what @Bloop said.

There is little to no content in the game that incentivizes us to far into a mission unless you’re doing it for fun or just for Nightwave. We need more content in the game that does incentivize to stay in a mission for a long time, whether it be scaling rewards or some other way.

[(NSW)Austee]

Whoa... This person joins over a year ago, never makes a single post, has no other content history, and didn’t even reply back on their thread after flaming and telling the vets their best coarse of action is to just stop playing until something new comes out? And uses the megathread tag which I thought only mods and DE could use....AND IT IS STILL UP?? 

 

DE, I knew you were clever.... But to make a fake profile and essentially tell your audience to shut up and don’t complain because “you just don’t understand how you feel or why you feel that way” is kinda shady. Oh, and to slide in “Its not DE’s fault.” Classic.  

 

Im on to you ;).

 

I will happily redact my statement if this is really just some sad DE apologist who created some of the best clickbait I’ve ever seen. 

 

 

 

 

[DOOMPATRIOT]

hace 11 horas, 844448 dijo:

 

hace 11 horas, 844448 dijo:

Of course, the grind won't be something easy. 

The grind in this game is Easy.

If you think it is hard, it is not It's Just Tedious.

[Chappie]

28 minutes ago, Corvid said:

Regarding resource stockpiling, I must wonder if some kind of storage cap would help (on a per-resource basis, of course). If you limit how much of a given material can be held at any one time by a player, new players and vets will be a lot closer in terms of how much they have built up. New items and systems could be balanced accordingly, and DE wouldn't necessarily need to make up a new resource every time they want to bottleneck our progression.

It would also have an impact on consumables, which would be a good thing in my eyes. Energy pads and the spamming thereof are part of why the energy economy is so out of whack.

It doesn't really matter because our ability to obtain resources is down right trivial.  All it takes is camping survival mission with a resource booster, doubler and a loot frame and 30-60 minutes.  Problem done.   It isn't "fun" but it is optimal...and that is something warframe needs to deal with is mission speed vs loot.     For example...on fissures...I only run exterminate/capture/rescue.   For arbitration....excavation in a premade.   That is it.      Anything else is a doubling or tripling of time....why would I?   

As for energy economy..it doesn't matter...it just changes the meta of things and that is it.     Unless you remove all energy sources....the player will just latch onto the next best thing.

[(PSN)GEN-Son_17]

3 hours ago, KIREEK said:

As a veteran i actually don't feel like other veterans, mainly because i play warframe to have fun, i repeat missions i have done countless times because i find them fun and the squads i get in fun (obviously bad apples exist, but the majority is fine), i don't play warframe to grind, that is obvious by looking at my MR, it was 9, then it went to 12 and now 16, considering the 1st few MR25 players appear at 1000 completed missions (players are usually in the MR10-13 at this point) and i have 40x more than that and i am still at MR16, you can kinda see where my time is used.

I don't realy mind layers quiting and complaining about the lack of endgame, but i am sure that if i trow a few basic missions at those so called "veterans", most would colapse regarding something in the game, being a veteran means something, it's not to be used as a meme, you may call yourselves veterans, but considering the things i see on a daily basis, i feel ashamed that i am playing with players like that.

Asking for endgame content when i know even newbie level content isn't dominated feels cringy, how many times have i seen veterans asking for builds or questioning if a riven mod is good or bad, how many times have i seen veterans that don't defend terminals or still use the front door on rescues, all of them, even those on venus, Veterans who play sorties, but need a taxi for kuva fortress missions, you know things that are not supposed to happen, but they do.

Endgame?, some of you are completely crazy. Captain vor assassination would be more suitable for some of you.

This is what I'm talking about: vets, who you can see in action and read stats on, that lie. I've played with extreme gamers who have mastered the META and those are the players who should walk away because they don't have fun, they just play to defeat a challenge. They're, in essence, playing a different game model than what Warframe is intended for...which is also why DE has such a hard time pleasing them. The others? They simply aren't as good as they claim and need to be carried.

For proof, just read and listen to what they want and, when it's provided, they simply rinse and repeat: "It isn't hard DE! We want harder content with better rewards and balancing. We don't want a gated anything, we don't want puzzles and we don't want bullet sponges". Lol, you just told DE to not do what other companies do, still do it better though and think of the rewards you can't think would make sense...but you're probably not going to like anyway". Thatb ladies and gents, would make you toxic.

I even started a thread once to give those vets an opportunity to express their detailed vision of an endgame and, while some did very well (one looks remarkably like disruption), most couldn't.

[(PSN)FriendSharkey]

I just don't know why DE can't just load Arbitration with all the mid tier bosses and assassins and specters and everything that gives us a fight and call it day...they don't need those annoying little drones if you have six bursa, two Juggernaughts and a brigade of Nox trying to kill you at once pouring into the room...Then the players can use their abilities because they are going to need them...as a team...

[(PSN)GEN-Son_17]

1 hour ago, RunsWithChainsaws said:

Honestly, I'm not a vet, but what drives me away from other games is that they become TOO challenging.  I don't mind doing the same mission over and over again as long as I get the rewards, but having to do the same mission 10 times with every time failing with no reward at all....then I go play something else for a few hours to a few months.  I think the issue with games is that some of the people who play them are just easily bored.  I played roughly 25,000 hours of GW2, but I never played any of the more challenging content and much of some of the expansions story languish undone.  I stopped playing that game because a lot of the story content and some of the festival content is going to be pretty miserable with challenge, plus the controls there suck and that game is laggy for my potato machine.  Someone in the game industry needs to figure out how to make challenge fun rather than very likely miserable.  At least make the failures worth doing, like maybe a token system with tiny amounts of it for failing.  All I know is every single invasion spy mission I've done this week has been ruined by level 50 zealots.  FYI, I've been playing Warframe for less than 5 months, my star chart progress is currently being held up by scanning Grineer drones on Uranus (I've been at that point for at least a month because I haven't seen a Grineer drone yet), but I have some progress on Neptune and Sedna thanks to the void.  Spy missions...ugh...I can't do the nightmare ones because I can only get so good at hacking just like my typing hasn't improved in speed in the past 45 years I've been doing that.

  

You are the player type that Warframe was made for. DE displayed stats in a dev stream once that described your type as the majority.

As for the scan, Desdemona(sp?) is the area you're looking for. You should hear a distinct sound followed by the lotus speaking to you. 

[844448]

45 minutes ago, DOOMPATRIOT said:

 

The grind in this game is Easy.

If you think it is hard, it is not It's Just Tedious.

And you don't look like someone that read more than one sentence

[RunsWithChainsaws]

Thanks for the tip.  That's what my husband said too.  No Lotus speaking yet, lol.

[Lutesque]

2 hours ago, vegetosayajin said:

I think OP is mostly right in his analysis.The solution too but that depends on you expectations on what you want to do when you log in.For a LONG time I played Quake 3 Arena vs bots on one map for an hour a day because I liked the gameplay, wanted to wind off from work/gf etc and now that role is taken entirely from warframe.
The "problem" is when you get all the mods, all the arcanes that you need, all the focus etc you need a challenge to test it and the only option now is to do a 2 h survival on mot to get to a challenging level.And even than, when you can easily beat the hordes it doesn't matter if it's 2 hours or 10.
As for Quake(or some other game) the enemies don't get stupid powerful, neither do you and it's up to your skill to be as best you can be.
That's why you can play an RTS (for example Starcraft) for years and years and you always strive to be better.Even the champions have to continue to play constantly because you have to keep your shape all the time.The game doesn't change, but your skill does.
As for WF when you get all the stuff and know(at least a little) what to do and when to do it - it becomes more about the gear and less about the skill.
No matter how much skill you have you can't go to mot with the regular mods and a braton, skana and lato, no op for example and expect to survive a long time or even do any damage.

Action RPGs in a Nutshell. 

 

1 hour ago, RunsWithChainsaws said:

Someone in the game industry needs to figure out how to make challenge fun rather than very likely miserable. 

This has been done numerous time I think....

But I can't reccomend anything I would consider examples of this happening without knowing if thats the type of thing you want....

54 minutes ago, (PS4)GEN-Son_17 said:

those are the players who should walk away because they don't have fun, they just play to defeat a challenge

I mean... if the most effective way to beat a challenge isn't fun then doesn't that suggest theres something wrong with The Design ? 

Why should I use my Favourite Warframe whos abilities may or may not work against a specific boss when I can just Use 300% Strength Chroma ? 

Like it or not the reason people go with Boring META choices is because Warframe kinda has a tendency for punishing players who try to play their own way....

This happens as early as your first time playing the game and you have to choose between Mag, Volt & Excalibur....

If you don't pick Excalibur you just set yourself up for higher than normal Frustration....

34 minutes ago, (PS4)GEN-Son_17 said:

You should hear a distinct sound followed by the lotus speaking to you

She doesn't actually speak until you scan the Drone.... even seeing it doesn't trigger the dialogue....

[RunsWithChainsaws]

Quote

Ah...TY...so just listen for some strange sound?  btw, Nightwave isn't what we signed up for when we started playing either...really not cool to have a chores list for something that is supposed to be fun.  DE says it's to reward stuff we do anyway, but about 75% of it I wouldn't be doing.  It gets in the way of actually making progress on personal goals.  In fact, from what I've seen, most dailies and weeklies in games do that, get in the way of personal goals or game progress.

 

Edited August 23, 2019 by RunsWithChainsaws
Clarification

[uAir]

Endgame players just want meaningful progress.
To them, that mostly comes in collecting and completing meaningful content.
That's mostly just MR stuff that is usable or practical or applicable to the gameplay.

When this is all done they may turn to random things like fashion frame or collecting floofs or conservation or something else. If nothing else is found to be meaningful they languish.

I, for one, sit in recruit chat and help players or I continue to farm materials or prime parts and run for my arcanes and kuva.

[sungod1]

People change and develop other interests. 

[Feltal]

So you're just going to pretend DE haven't been removing content from the game for years in the cases of Dark Sector solar rail conflicts, the old void, and trials? They literally removed any reason to get stronger by dumbing down everything—removing any reason to be in a clan beyond research/big friends list, making primes too easy to acquire, and adding massive gear checks to get arcanes instead of teamwork based trials. It's a case of using hype to cater to new players who will spend a little money then leave shortly after.

Edited August 23, 2019 by Feltal
Clarified some points

[xXDeadsinxX]

4 minutes ago, Feltal said:

So you're just going to pretend DE haven't been removing content from the game for years in the cases of Dark Sector solar rail conflicts, the old void, and trials? They literally removed any reason to get stronger by dumbing down everything—removing any reason to be in a clan beyond research/big friends list, making primes too easy to acquire, and adding massive gear checks to get arcanes instead of teamwork based trials. It's a case of using hype to cater to new players who will spend a little money then leave shortly after.

Sad, but unfortunately true. 

[RunsWithChainsaws]

 

10 minutes ago, Feltal said:

So you're just going to pretend DE haven't been removing content from the game for years in the cases of Dark Sector solar rail conflicts, the old void, and trials? They literally removed any reason to get stronger by dumbing down everything—removing any reason to be in a clan beyond research/big friends list, making primes too easy to acquire, and adding massive gear checks to get arcanes instead of teamwork based trials. It's a case of using hype to cater to new players who will spend a little money then leave shortly after.

Hmmm....that is unlikely to be me, unless it gets too challenging.  I spent 6 years and tons of money on that other game and finally left because I needed a guild to do too much of the content.  I don't feel like I'm doing anything worthwhile with a bunch of peeps carrying me.  Honestly that is why I started playing this game, because it has almost no PvP and almost all the content can be soloed with adequate gear.

Edited August 23, 2019 by RunsWithChainsaws
addition