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[DE]Danielle

(PC) Ember & Vauban Revisited Feedback

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After using 12th Forma on Ember after all her reworks I feel like she still needs help. Most of all, it's the same old Fireball with the same old problems that weren't even addressed. And secondly, although the new Ember has synergy it doesn't seem like she really does. I really like ideas behind Fire Blast and Inferno, it feels fresh and engaging, however other 50% of her kit has some issues.

 

FIREBALL

Plain and simple: it was lackluster before and it's even more so now. Your investment into it doesn't worth the output it provides, not even at 8x multiplier, because in order to achieve such amount of damage  you have to spam the same ability and burn through your energy pool. You can practically forget about this ability if you're not running a high-efficiency build.

Details:

  • Complete lack of the aesthetic pleasure and satisfaction on the visual part of the ability:

There's strong satisfaction when Atlas build up his Landslide combo with a fiery explosion, and there's complete lack of the one when using Ember's Fireball. Does it even have animations other than pulling her hand and then moving it forward aka 'throwing' a fireball? No matter the damage, even if it kills, just looking at it doesn't make it powerful, it doesn't make you feel powerful. Just no eye candy stuff. Even Vauban received his fancy juggle animation for grenades.

We all played video games with Fireballs, we all watched movies or cartoons or animation with magic. Heck, look at the Avatar's Firebending - it's got it all: fire punches, fireballs, flamethrowers or flame whips from your hands. It really surprises me how bleak visually and animation-wise Fireball is.

  • Firepatch doesn't stick to surfaces
  • Reliance on Immolation

So you added charge-up mechanics for abilities. It had the same issues that charged melee attacks had: it takes too much time in so fast-paced game with little to no effective output. You changed melee, charged attacks are good now, abilities charge-up, however, wasn't changed, thus it has the same issues it had before.

Next, you also removed Flash Accelerant augment which was really useful for support-oriented builds so now Fireball gets reduced charge-up time when you have Immolation up and running *which* costs you extra energy and then even some more when it reaches its max. *And then* you also have to spend energy on actually casting your Fireballs.

  • Weak stats-wise

400 damage on hit and 150 damage on AoE which is also 2m (2.4 if charged), has a 0.5 delay before casting it again and takes 2.5s to charge it up on default condition. On top of that, it's also a projectile-based ability with not really decent projectile speed.

 

Suggestions:

Honestly? I'd say scrap it and do a better one. Exalted fire whips or flamethrowers from one/both of ther hands (if holding the button down).

But these are regarding the current state:

  • Make visuals (vfx, animations) feel that they do pack a punch.
  • Make Fireball stick to surface on hit and increase its lifespan.
  • Decrease charge-up time at least to 1.5s, or:
  • Triple AoE stats on the current charge-up.
  • Synergy with Inferno: casting Fireball on ignited enemies results in an explosion. If enemy use weapons, their ammunition also starts detonating and firing small fireballs off them and igniting nearby enemies on hit (as in proccing Heat status on them, damage would be low).

 

IMMOLATION

Oh boy, the reliance on just one ability in order to make others work is just... beyond me. It works on Gauss to some degree (that being said, like him), but not really on Ember. And not only that, but you also changed two augments for different abilities that are heavily relying on the Immolation. Which is basically two augments for one ability with different effects. Besides, Immolation doesn't even boost your Heat/Fire damage at all.

MICROMANAGEMENT OVERKILL and OTHER ABILITIES RELIANCE.

I swear, rather than tapping several buttons in order to make one ability *work* in order to kill enemies, I can just take my gun or now-insanely-good-melee and deal with them with no enery cost. And it they don't die, I just shoot a few more bullets that do the job. It seems to be a common issue with the newest warframes - too much work and actions among abilities to reach the same effect you'd have if you just tap & hold 'fire' button. Also, when did we move from 'synergies' that offer extra or altered effects to synergies that make abilities just work?

Next... Let's take a look at some DR abilities we have so far:

  • Trinity has her 75% DR Link which will also transfer 100% of damage and status received to linked enemies. All it costs her is tapping one button every 20-30s.
  • Mesa has a 90% DR ability which will also be deflecting projectiles. All it costs her is tapping one button every 20-30s.
  • Revenant has his Mesmer Skin that completely protects him from damage and status while also converting the attackers. All it costs him is tapping one button every X-charges and you can even re-cast it!
  • Equinox has a 50% DR based on distance. All it costs her is tapping one button.
  • Mirage has light-adaptive Eclipse: DR for dark and Damage boost for light environment. All it costs her is tapping one button every 20-30s.
  • Nova has Null Star which is capable of reaching a 90% DR with just enough duration. Again, just one button until the charges are depleted.
  • Gara has her Splinters that not only grant her and allies a 90% DR, but also can be stacked as long as you have enery for a tremendous amount of damage capable of oneshotting enemies just by passing by.

And the list goes on and on.

Ember, on the other hand, has Immolation which really shows you what really stressful micromanagement is. And if there's nothing or no one to use Fire Blast at, you just have to use it - and it's a 75 energy points ability - in order to cool down. And this is the only ability that cools her down. Great. So if you don't have enough energy for Fire Blast, it's just easier to turn Immolation off, transference out and Void Dash away.

 

And let's take a look at the bigger picture.

Previous Ember:

  • Reliance on Accelerant in order to let Ember kill enemies and CC.

Current Ember:

  • Reliance on Immolation in order to let Ember not die / make Fireball being effective.

So why don't we just implement her Damage Reduction the way others already have it and focus on the fact that Ember's now struggling at CC-ing (all those pesky LoS requirements, duh), being a Damage Dealer she is supposed to be and her having synergy issues?

It's not like Ember wasn't among the first warframes to introduce pure DR abilities to begin with:

latest?cb=20130930232833

 There is literally no reason to reinvent the wheel 🤷‍♂️

 

Suggestions:

  • Move Immolation to Ember's 3rd ability slot with 75 energy cost and Fire Blast to Ember's 2nd.
  • Synergy with other abilities: Add (Heat-) Damage boost depending on the Immolation's state. At least it will make having insane energy drain fair.

 

FIRE BLAST

I have only 2 critical moments to point out:

  1. LoS requirement for a temperature-based ability is really oof.
  2. The lack of synergy with anything but Immolation feels odd. Stripping armor doesn't really count, I can strip armor with my weapons as well.

 

Suggestions:

  • Honestly, I think using Inferno and then Fire Blast should help to spread Inferno's fire on ignited enemies, while also boosting Heat DoT. With Fireball, if you make it stick to surfaces, it could be resulting in an explosion which would make the firepatches spread out (similar to fire hazard and Hyekka Master's grenades) in a 10m area with a 100% chance to ignite enemies that step on it.
  • Perhaps, make Fire Blast applying only to the same tile (no LoS check) you're in and LoS check if targets are in the connected room.

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Vauban's rework, at least in my opinion, has been a success. Sure there are some flaws with it: like how his tesla nervos can no longer stick to allies or environment, or how his ultimate doesn't know if it's a bastille or a vortex, or how his minelayer skill still leaves much to be desired mostly in terms of being useful. But overall I'm having a lot of fun with him now.

Ember's rework is a different story for me though. While she's been improved in comparison to her older iteration in almost every way, I'm still not having much fun with her. Granted, this is all my experience, and I haven't played her that much (yet), but the fact that I'm not having any urge to play more of her at all should say something at the very least.

First off, I want to address that while her fireball may do more damage, it's still the same old boring ability. So many other warframes have more fun first abilities - like Volt's 1 stunning, bouncing and being much faster, or Saryn's 1 having 'targetable' DoT pimples with a spreading mechanic, etc. It'd be so much cooler for Fireball to leave DoT area's like a grineer napalm, or if it could take an example from Chroma's 1 and become some form of flamethrower-type ability you could have active while firing (secondary) weapons.

Now, as to the overall problem I have with her current kit, it's twofold. One: I don't think her heat mechanic is good enough (currently) to provide fun interaction within her kit, seeing as it's too tied to her Immolation ability and doesn't provide anything except slight indirect buffs to her abilities. To add to that, being at full heat sucks up too much energy to provide much of a window to play around with her kit. I think it'd be much better if this heat mechanic was (near-)cost-less and always active, like being her standard passive for instance (much like Nidus or Gauss). Secondly, I think her current kit is way too much 'fire and forget'. Aside from the heat mechanic - which in itself needs some tweaking - her kit barely requires any effort or strategy at all. As an example, the only thing Inferno improved in comparison to World on Fire, is that it now requires a little bit of targeting (not much at all though) and is much more instant gratification(/fire and forget).

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What I'd do to replace either Fireball or Fire Blast with Accelerant... :C  Moderate teamwide DR is...OK I guess but it definitely wasn't worth losing Flash Accelerant. 

My quick suggestions because I don't expect DE to put in more than bare minimum effort on Ember: 

1. Reduce Fire Blast energy cost to nothing. Fire Blast already renders Ember more vulnerable by reducing heat meter and Immolate DR; there's no reason for it to cost so much energy on top of it.

Like, I have a lot of gripes about how Immolate and heat meter work, how none of its risk and rewards make sense with each other and reeks of DE slapping on a debilitating drain for a warped idea of "balance" because they know they could never touch the really overpowered frames and have to force "balance" on frames no one'd make a big fuss about. But that's a rant for another time.

2. Increase Ember and Vauban's base energy to 175. Hell give Vauban Prime 200 base energy, Quick Thinking should be his mod. 

3. Get rid of Immolate's ramping up energy drain.

I'm OK with 90% DR having a static drain over time. Like @Thundervision said, other damage reduction/mitigation abilities in this game don't have such penalties, but Ember is the dead goat DE publicly punches once in a while to pretend they still care about balance so she's never going to simply get something useful without tacked on drawbacks. 

4. Increase Fireball range. It also needs to travel faster and it needs to spread faster. I'm not talking Saryn levels of contagious but 2m range at base for a slow-traveling projectile is absolutely asinine. 

I'm just. I'm just tired man. I've watched DE fail to make a fire mage frame for 7 years I had the lowest possible expectations and I'm still left with meh. 

EDIT: Also give her a way to add heat damage to her weapons other than 1 augment, such as every Fireball/Inferno cast in Overheat mode adding a stacking % heat damage to her weapons for a duration. Let's say it caps out at somewhere between 50-80%; higher power strength would add higher % with each cast but it would not raise the cap. 

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Fireblast could definitely need it's damage also getting buffed by immolations level. And immolations could definitely get some kind of normalization for the gauge filling and energy drain.

Fireball is still also boring and redundant, doesn't feel powerful at all despite being able to reach 8x damage.

Inferno is still fun and decently strong but the fire rings could still use a chance to proc fire.

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Flash Accelerant was a big loss, but don't remove fireball frenzy, because I like to do Eidolon hunt with Ember as DPS, the other 3 augments are pretty useless to me.

From 2nd: I don't want to buff my team DR, they are there just to increase the loot and XP of the mission. 😊

From 3rd: I don't need healing (magus elevate, health pads, vazarin maybe, meleeing, etc).

From 4th: Ehhhhhh, pointless augment, just solve her energy problem, the third ability doesn't work as intended with the 2nd because too high energy cost, too high the drain in the heat bar, increase her energy pool.


Flash Accelerant would  be pretty good on 3rd ability, because you would get the buff at the same time you debuff the enemy.
 

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Ember feedback and suggestions:
Overall she is better than she was before. But most of her kit is still kind of awkward to use. Especially some of the auguments.

Her 1 i feel needs to be changed to something else. Perhaps a bouncing firebomb (similar to what witch doctor in diablo 3 has) would be good. You press one, you launch an orb of fire that bounces 3 times off the floor in a linear path. Each time it bounces, it explodes in a fixed radius (range mods instead affect the distance between the 3 bounces) and leaves behind a patch of lava in the explosion radius (which could be something like 3-5m diameter circle) for a good duration. Enemies stepping on said lava of course get a fire proc very often as long as they are kept in the fire.

So for example, if you mod for negative range and a lot of duration, you end up with a firebomb that explodes 3 times in the same place, perhaps a choke point, and constantly reapplies heat status, keeping enemies at half armor and quickly ramping up heat damage over time effect. Not to mention activating her passive.

Damage wise, current fireball is not good enough. If changed into firebomb, perhaps half of meteor damage would be good, multiplying with each bounce.

Her 1 augument is good just the way it is.

Her 2 augument is weird. I've played a lot with it, yet i am still unsure if it makes a difference to my teammates. Perhaps a useful buff would be for it to affect operators, companions and objectives.

Her 3 is okay, as well as the augument, but perhaps it would be better for Ember to gain a free cast of it once her 2 reaches 90% damage reduction. And also what if casting her 3 while at 90% damage reduction also gave Ember 1-2 seconds of 90% damage reduction for each enemy hit by the 3. That way, you don't just lose your damage reduction when you are surrounded and need to lower your overheat meter.

Her 4 is nice, damage is decent, but the dot effect reminds me too much of garuda's 4 or saryn's spores. And more often than not, enemies either instantly die to the meteor, or live to die by my weapons while they have the swirly flames around them and those seem to do little to nothing.

How about the DOT also triggers her passive. That way, you can more reliably gain extra damage from longer lasting procs.

Another buff option for her 4 would be for it to deal extra damage to aerial targets. Whether those targets are naturally flying or lifted through several effects (though this wouldn't be ideal since nothing else in her kit lifts).

Last option for a 4 buff would be for those meteors to also leave behind lava patches instead of a DOT, which would constantly give heat procs.

The augument of her 4 has such a minuscule effect, i don't even notice it most of the time. Same issue as her augument for her 2. Perhaps it could be buffed, or changed with one of the suggestions above.

 

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Since they haven't done anything with Ember yet, I figured I'd just add some more possible alternatives that I think would be better if they're still considering what they want to do with her: 

A couple different ways to do her meter: 

1) Make it static 90% DR, but upon taking damage, increase heat build up. You could still have the energy drain mechanic only at full heat and continuing to increase at full heat. Instead of just the current 2 ways of releasing heat, all abilities would drain some heat if available in order to increase their damage and/or decrease their cost or have some other secondary bonus for that ability. I think it makes more sense to build up heat in this way and then dump it via any ability. She could still slowly passively build heat but also build heat fast when being hit. 

2) You could change immolate into a mechanic where any damage Ember would take is converted into a fire DoT on her over 10 seconds or something (similar to a brewmasters stagger effect in WoW). The dot ticks would also keep adaptation up easily since all her damage taken would be heat. Every one of her other abilities would take some percentage of her current built up stagger effect and add to their damage and/or reduce their cost. She could also have some passive heat damage reduction that's always active, but it wouldn't necessarily need to be that high given that you could have adaptation + the ability to just dump the damage you're taking via the DoT/damage stagger. The healing flame augment would possible play into this effect better as well if you wanted to use that instead of an alternative way to heal. 

I also think replacing fire blast with accelerant as many others have suggested would be good. It brings back a weapon focused playstyle as an option that Ember players pre-rework liked and used as well as gives you better group support/utility. While I like her new 4 better than the old 4, we didn't need to gut the way people were playing her before completely. The % could be lowered from the old version if it were considered too powerful combined with her new 4. Having the self cast-speed buff also makes sense for a caster frame. You could keep the new healing augment instead of flash accelerant and just have it work on accelerant, though maybe it should also heal allies. A lot of people would probably prefer flash accelerant though (maybe just have both as options).  

I think we could then also move the armor stripping mechanic away from her 3 and maybe split it into her 4 and 1. IE: Her 1 could leave behind an AoE DoT or apply a debuff to every enemy hit that reduces current armor by 25% per second (essentially like getting a corrosive proc per second) and then also make her 4 debuff do the same thing to speed things up. I don't think this should scale with power strength since there's enough reason to use power strength and it would also allow lower strength builds to strip armor so they weren't automatically bad vs. grineer (currently sub 100% strength builds are awful at stripping armor with fire blast, even at full meter). You could make the meter bonus effect on the abilities increase the armor strip speed as a way to speed it up. 

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As someone who plays Vauban nearly exclusively I have a couple things to say:

 

Tesla Nervos:

Good:

-Much better than Vauban's old 1: letting them loose to do their own thing feels better than having to stack a ton of tesla mines in one place.

-The small CC they provide can be quite useful, especially if enemies are clumped together.

Bad:

-They get left behind way too easily. I find myself having to recast them frequently, more than I should because the group and I have already moved to another location on the tileset while they're stuck zapping some level 90 bombard 600m behind us. A catch-up mechanic such as a teleport would help them greatly if you travel to far from them.

-The model they use would is a bit disappointing, but that's more of a nitpick.

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Minelayer:

Good:

-Tether Coil: Is nice cheap CC, grabbing some enemies and dangling them which makes them easy to shoot.

-Flechette Orb: Can be placed in a vortex or near tether coils to get some extra dps on trapped enemies. Especially great against the infested for setting up a camping spot as they run into the turrets.

-Overdriver: Pure damage increase, can't really say much good about it other than that.

-Vector Pad: Memes...that's it.

Bad:

-Tether Coil: Tethers themselves tend to "linger" after killing an enemy which is very annoying. The two enemies max is also seriously disappointing, would be better if it scaled with strength. The pull is also really weak sometimes, where it just drags them a couple inches and then they just lay flat on the ground after.

-Flechette Orb: Horrendous accuracy, either turn the turrets into proper turrets themselves with focused fire and concentrated damage, or make replace the puncture status with slash. Even with 4 of them place together near a vortex, far fewer of the bullets actually land.

-Overdriver: IMO the damage increase is barely noticeable, and the strength-to-% scaling is so low that I'd have to invest my entire build into strength in order to get this high enough for it to make a real difference. Please change it to something else like reload speed, fire rate, or if you want to get really interesting critical chance/damage. Also it is very annoying trying to buff everyone with how it behaves, I have to throw 3-4 out sometimes just to get it to buff one person. Changing it to a large AOE buff that affects whatever was in the AOE would be much better.

-Vector Pad: There's not a single viable use for this. Even when trying to use it to repel enemies, it's already used up in what feels like seconds. Waste of energy and better off becoming a deployable barrier to help with survivability, which Vauban seriously needs even with the armor strip of his 4.

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Photon Strike:

Good:

-"Okay" AOE damage that's good on lower levels. Level scaling? Yes yes yes! This was a fantastic decision, and should be implemented into other things too.

Bad:

-As excited as I was to use this when it was revealed, it just really doesn't feel worth using. The time it takes to throw and then have the beam hit something, my weapons could have easily done the same thing way faster and for free without draining energy. The radius is too small and the amount of energy it takes is too much for me to use it often. The damage itself it really not that great against anything not a red bar. I understand you can bastille --> vortex --> photon but this feels like such a "gimmick" combo that's never actually going to see consistent use, and mentioned before that the photon strike stage of the combo can be so easily replaced by my own weapons.  As cool as it is, it feels extremely "eh" and I'm disappointed in it. It needs a serious buff to everything, have it behave differently, or just changed into another ability entirely because right now this is my least used ability in his kit (not including vector pad).

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Bastille/Vortex:

Good:

-Armor strip is amazing, and the stripped armor it provides to Vauban is a great step in the right direction to help him with survivability. 

-Vortex has actual range to it now, and feels very worth it to use.

Bad:

-Bastille doesn't strip armor off of enemies in a vortex, this is either a bug or an oversight that really breaks the synergy. Please make bastille strip armor off of enemies in a vortex or make vortex itself strip armor too.

-Vortex has a really weak pull, and suffers the same problem as tether. Enemies get stuck on tiny bits of the map and are scattered all over the place. The pull needs to be aggressive and stronger so enemies aren't getting stuck as easily.

-Increased energy was expected, but being such a vital part of his kit it makes it more difficult to actually put out strong CC.

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Overall:

Vauban is way better than he was before the rework but he is still plagued by underwhelming abilities that don't see much actual use. Most of the major work is done and some medium tweaks are needed for him to start feeling great! 

 

 

 

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I've already given my feedback on what I think does and doesn't work on the current iteration of the Vauban rework.  Here are my thoughts on what I would change after having played with the rework for several hours.  

The Good: Flashy new graphics and animations are good and make him enjoyable to play visually. Armor strip on Bastille is nice, good utility.

The Bad: Nervos are bad at controlled CC; they are hard to see and often get stuck on enemies nowhere near you. Vortex causes issues with enemies getting stuck on terrain. Bastille collapsing into Vortex can often ragdoll enemies all over unexpectedly.  Still way too fragile for most missions if you aren't camping in a hallway or behind cover.

I know the following suggestions are a bit more than numbers tweaks, but since we are revisiting him, I'd still ask for some substantial changes now to prevent Vauban from going back to bottom of the Warframe tier list.

Tesla Nervos: No longer seek out and attach to enemies. Instead, quick press will deploy a single Tesla for Vauban, and hold press will also summon one for squad mates within X range. Tesla follows the player and acts similar to shock motes. This provides more predictable CC, and doesn't make the ability useless in mobile missions. Augment changed to radiate damage when an enemy stunned by a Tesla is killed.

Minelayer: Vauban needs a personal defensive ability for mobile missions and high level content. Given his tech-focused kit, I would like to see a drone / roller / osprey style deployable that gives Vauban a big chunk of overshields. These shields will give a shield gate when exhausted providing 3 seconds of invulnerability, and can occur 3 times before being exhausted. I totally get that some people like the gimmicky toolkit, but the sheer number of Vauban meme videos should be ample enough evidence that a solid ability belongs here to round out his kit. As it is right now, it is suicide to bring a Vauban lich hunting since Bastille doesn't seem to grab the lich unless mine was just buggy (side note, why does Khora's ensnare work but Bastille doesn't?).

Bastille: Separate this out from Vortex and keep the armor stripping. Ideally, you should feel incredibly safe while within a Bastille. As it is, enemies frequently shoot from outside and can kill frames or objectives inside it.

Augment for Bastille: Repelling bastille now blocks all ranged attacks / projectiles. Given that Limbo currently has this, I don't think this is unreasonable given the mod slot cost. This would allow Vauban to actually defend objectives along side frames such as Gara / Frost / Khora / Limbo.

Vortex / Photon: Combine these two abilities. Make Vortex only affect enemies in line of sight and last for 3 seconds. At the end, a photon strike lands at the vortex location, hitting for full damage at the epicenter and doing reduced damage to enemies further out to the max range. Reduce base damage on the ability and make it affected by primary weapon mods. I know the ability has some behind the scenes scaling, but it just isn't working.  Ideally Warframe abilities should do things that weapons can't, and right now, this is essentially a weaker Lenz / Ogris.  Another twist on this might be to amplify the damage and make it split damage across targets hit.  This would allow it to kill many weak enemies while still having power if you are facing one or two strong enemies instead.  

Augment for Perpetual Vortex: Vortex persists for X seconds after the Photon Strike hits. This will allow players to use an augment if they want the long duration CC back, but really frames don't need 2+ modes of stationary CC.

 

The release of the Lich system and the subsequent amount of 80+ level missions being run makes fragile frames without significant buffs or damage just not really feasible.  My guess is that DE will be able to see from the data that the majority of high level missions are being run by frames with either innate toughness (Inaros / Wukong / Nidus) or a strong defensive ability (Rhino / Nezha / Mesa / etc.).  In my time lich hunting, it is really rare to see frames that don't fall into one of these categories.  So my main ask at this point is to address Vauban's survivability because he is currently an exercise in frustration once you get to 80+ level missions.

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4 hours ago, Dolerhyde said:

As it is right now, it is suicide to bring a Vauban lich hunting since Bastille doesn't seem to grab the lich unless mine was just buggy (side note, why does Khora's ensnare work but Bastille doesn't?).

Good question.

Vauban's Bastille does not work to stop, slow, or even hinder a Kuva Lich. Nothing in Vauban's CC arsenal is effective against a Kuva Lich.

From my (still) ongoing testing, a Kuva lich can be completely immobilized by Harrow's "Condemn", Khora's "Ensnare", and Revenant's "Mesmer Skin". Special points to Revenant because Revenant can "stunlock" the Kuva Lich, "Enthrall" the Kuva Lich, and instantly kill it with "Reave" given the right circumstances (regardless of level, and regardless of whether or not it's even your Lich to begin with).

A Kuva Lich can be Slowed by Frost's "Snowglobe" and Equinox's "Peaceful Provocation" augment for her "Pacify and Provoke" ability in night form. Special points to Equinox because the damage reduction from the aforementioned ability also applies, rendering the Kuva Lich nearly harmless in most cases.

Crowd Control is not a waste of time, but Vauban's kit is.

I like your ideas, especially the combination of Vortex/Orbital Strike. Vauban's abilities need to be significantly altered in order to be remotely useful beyond mid-level star chart missions. Before anyone says anything, no, a max-range-spaghetti-ball-vortex build for ESO does not make Vauban "OP". It's hilarious, yes, and so is boost pad. The problem isn't boost pad. The problem is Vauban in general. Silly/useless abilities are reasonable when the other abilities are beneficial. (Chroma's "Spectral Scream", for example)

What, exactly, did this rework set out to accomplish? Did it, really? Is Vauban supposed to be universally, unequivocally bad? If so, I wish this could be confirmed publicly by the developers. I could un-bookmark this page and go back to using Inaros with melee attack bound to scroll wheel.

Thank you for your consideration,

-Manatees

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1 hour ago, Acquire_Manatees said:

What, exactly, did this rework set out to accomplish?

Make him worse.

 

1 hour ago, Acquire_Manatees said:

Did it, really?

Yes, he's worse.

 

Having said that, Vauban is god, and a god who's slightly less god is still god. It's merely a difference between infinities.

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2 hours ago, Acquire_Manatees said:

What, exactly, did this rework set out to accomplish? Did it, really? Is Vauban supposed to be universally, unequivocally bad? If so, I wish this could be confirmed publicly by the developers. I could un-bookmark this page and go back to using Inaros with melee attack bound to scroll wheel.

Seeing the rework Ember got makes it even more frustrating to me.  They patched up her deficiency of being very squishy while also giving her instantaneous armor stripping on her AOE CC and an effective nuke that works up to quite high levels.  It just really feels like Vauban's rework did nothing to change what he was good at and what he was bad at.  So we get a few new animations (some of which are still detrimental in their cast / deployment time), and the ability to meme harder.  I really hope DE takes another swing at this because at the moment it is a non-starter for me.

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On 2019-11-01 at 1:50 AM, Mardomus said:

I have a lot of problems with Vauban and couple of likes. 

Like: 

1). The combination of his Vortex and Bastille.

2). The Photon strike. (Augment should increase the ability damage.)

Dislikes:

1). His Bastille buff is weak due to the ramp up time for the buff to be effective, and by the time that happens, Vauban is dead, unless you mod Quick Thinking. I Suggest Bastille reflect 20% of the damage enemies inflict back at the attacker, while keeping its current armor stripping/buff (Below in minelayer, I will discuss a support setup that will help with Bastille buff). I also suggest having the Augment for Bastille change to what "Tether Coil" currently is. This would give similarities to Khora's Strangledome, but we already have that in his current kit, except Vauban has to spend more energy and utilize time for placement and refreshments for both. 

2). Minelayer drains too much time and energy, therefore, making it a useless kit.

  • Tether Coil: has a max of grabbing "two" mobs, so basically you'll have to spam (waste time and energy) for the ability to become effect. Khoras' ability Strangledome does what Vaubans' Coil/Bastille abilities can do, but better. It can pull in a lot of mobs tossing them around and deal a lot of damage, while Vauban has to work harder for less. This was the same problem with the previous Minelayer and Vauban design. Setting up, and wasting energy for an ability that is lacking compared to other frames whose abilities do better, with less effort more reward. I already suggest above having Tether Coil be an augment for Bastille, and remove it from Minelayer. 
  • Flethette Orb: doesn't do much damage unless there are low levels, CC'ed or unless you Mod for Power Strength and that alone will put Vauban in horrible state, because he has nothing to keep him alive. This, at least, could have been an ability that would keep Vauban alive. To me, it is useless, and it doesn't serve purpose except afk kill, and that is boring. My unmodded pistol does more damage, so that tells me not to use this ability, at all. It holds down a room, to an extent, yes, but now you have to switch to other abilities, while refreshing others, etc. Instead of completely getting rid of this ability, why not take Flechette Orb out of Minelayer and add that damage design to Nervos. I will write more about this below under Tesla Nervos.
  • Vector Pad: I don't see anything cool or fun about it. All I see if an upgraded version of another troll ability that's taking a spot for a cool creative "Engineering" ability. This ability could be designed similar to Wisp's "Haste Mote". I will write more about this below.
  • Overdrive: Its a Meh ability. Correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't the tank Grendel have a much stronger version of the Engineers' ability? Its decent, but it doesn't refresh the time on it, which it should, and it's junky when using it on yourself and others. I suggest taking this ability out and moving it to Tesla Nervos. I'll write more about it there.

Minelayer is still as useless ability that holds a similar kit to the old. Wisps' Reservoirs provides HP and healing, Speed, and cc enemies close the person who has the buff. Even Octavias' Metronome provides cool support buffs. What happened to the Engineered Minelayer? I suggest it gets scrapped and give Vauban a support/survival setup, like Octavia's Metronome or Wisp's Reservoirs. But, turn that into different types of Nervo's rolling and latching onto nearby allies, including yourself, similar to Clem. It should provide all buffs, not cycled, such as Heals Per Second/Energy Per Second/Speed (Speed boost Pad)/damage reduction. Adding some of the current Minelayer abilities into others will give his 2nd ability room to build around his survivability, while supporting his teammates. It also reduces the amount of time refreshing abilities, or not using 3/4 of them because they are useless 90% of spending time cycling threw them. 

3. Tesla Nervos goes all over the place. It went across the map CCing mobs, while other mobs were running loose close by tearing my hp up. I wont use this ability If i'm "stationary" because it holds mobs far away or behind obstacles, and, once again, Vauban is too weak when dealing with 50+ mobs to be running around killing the CC'ed ones. The proc should have been 100% considering the lack of survivability Vauban has when he's on the move. They should also stick close to him while he's on the move. The augment is useless, too. Did they reduce the damage? I suggest taking away the static shock effect and give Nervos the ability to scan enemies weakness, by allowing Nervos to deal status damage based on that targets defense. The damage design of Flechette Orb (Puncture & added Slash) should take the Electric shock place by having it shooting rounds or nails, not in 360 angel, at enemies (Secondary weapon mods should work with this ability, like how melee mods work with Atlas 1st ability). Nervos should stay next to Vauban, or roll few distance away popping open shooting at enemies or turn into a turret when an enemy is near dealing "x" damage, and closes if enemy dies or follow Vauban if he's moving further away to "x" location. I suggest Nervos to be permanent, so that it doesn't die quickly from higher levels. Not sure how other would like this, so you could hold it down to dismiss the ability if others are against it. 4 can be placed maxed with a 1 tap rather then holding it down. Also, you can take Overdrive and apply that 25% base damage (Should be more) as a group buff as long as Nervos is out, and that buff will increase by "x" of Ability Strength. 

In conclusion, Vauban is still the stationary Frame he was instead of the mobile look he was suppose to be. He did get new abilities that are useful such as his Phroton Strike, Bastille/Vortex combo and Overdrive, but he still lacks mobility. He lacks survivability on the move. He still wasting time and energy setting up a defense that other frames do better with far less work and energy put into it. Its hard to build him the way you want, because most of the mods go to surviving rather then building up other abilities. Octavia and Wisp provide more in terms of buffing and Khora in CCing without the use of 4-6 abilities. He still needs a lot of work. Not surprised, instead sad. 

 

I did an update about Vauban's rework. Let me know what you think. 

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Vauban

Photon strike augment should be changed to 5 enemies killed by photon strike, not directly 'hit' by photon strike. currently the augment has no right of existence in a fast paced gameplay outside of spamming it on vortex. 

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My sugestions for Vauban

1) Teslas Nervos: Increase a bit the movement speed. Add a marker to know where they are. Make the damage dealt scalable.

2) Minelayer

  • Theter Coil increase number of enemies that can pull based of strength. Make the pull stronger, like a rubber band.
  • Flechette Orb. The damage dealt scales. Besides puncture damage impact damage (yes, no slash damage).
  • Vector pad: This only makes synergy with the tesla nervos and is very situoational. Bring back the old concuss, or the very requested defensive dome. If Vector pad is here to stay at least give it speed buffs (reloading, firerate, melee movement...)

3) Photon Strike

Reduce energy drain to 50, or increase base damage to 3000.

4) Bastille

The contaiment field gives you shields and overshields over time, or gives you a base armor of 1000-1500 while you are inside it, plus the armor taken from the enemies in it.

Possible bug:
For some odd reason the tesla nervos don't latch on Mite Raknoids.
 

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Ember is very energy hungry if she wants to sustain her Immolation. A lot of her kit also revolves around spamming abilities and combo-ing them, so the lack of innate energy gains is rather surprising. Due to her Fireball combo multiplier, Heat procs, Fire Blast armor strip, and Inferno's spreading DOT, she can be devastating against Grineer, Infested, and Orokin.

However, the exponential energy drain on Immolation, combined with the convenience and cost-effectiveness of Inferno's homing meteorites vs. Fireball's slow projectile, as well as high cost of Fire Blast (the only way to reduce heat while retaining some damage reduction from Immolation) makes her kit incredibly expensive to use.

There are several areas she could use improvements on.

Passive - Conflagration

- Retain the latest Ability Strength value if no enemies are burning in range. This is a one-use charge for Ember's next ability cast.

Fireball

- Add cost reduction on successive casts in combo. Fireball is meant to build up in strength for multiple repeated casts, but it's mono-directional projectile and small AoE is easily dodged by moving enemies.

- Faster base projectile speed on Fireball and/or faster on charged casts and/or faster speed for high Immolation heat.

- Bump the Heat status chance on the AoE to 100%. Even Frost's Freeze guarantees slow in its little snowpatch. Ember just lost her bonfire too.

Immolation

- Add a small damage per second AOE around Ember that has a chance to catch enemies on fire. It's a shield of raging flames after all.

- Dial back on the exponential energy drain. It ramps up far too quickly, draining Ember dry too soon. Perhaps drain increases over a longer interval, like every 15 seconds instead of what feels like every 5-10 seconds.

Fire Blast

- Reduce cost to 50 energy.

Inferno

- If the targets are killed by the meteors, their ring of fire lingers for a shorter time in place.

- Add a chance to Heat proc on ring damage per second.

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For Vauban, I have the following notes.

Tesla Nervos - They suffer from some usability issues. They're highly aggressive and as rollers, they have something of a tendency to get stuck. It's easy to lose track of them, which makes the ability lack a bit of feedback. Tesla Bank is an incredibly powerful augment however, and it retains value at all ranks.

As a suggestion for improving the Nervos, I would recommend diversifying the AI. There are four nervos, so why not run four different AIs on them?

One that is aggressive, and will autonomously seek out new enemies to target, in disregard of how far away they might be.

One that is defensive, and will latch onto the first enemy to attack Vauban.

One that is supportive, and will only latch onto enemies within X meters of Vauban, and will detach if Vauban moves too far away.

And one with a standard AI.

Minelayer - I don't know what you did with the Flechette's damage calculation, but I think I like it. I get the impression that they're surprisingly effective even at high level, while not being overbearingly dominant at any level. I've seen complaints, but in my opinion they're misplaced. It has evolved into my favourite tool, basically. One suggestion I have is to allow them to be sticky, so they can be applied to higher positions, in order to help with LoS.

In terms of vector pad... Well, there's not much good to be said for this. It's not useful, sadly. Since Vauban could use an extra defensive option, I was considering options for it to interact with shields, as I think that would fit his theme best. One thing that sprang to mind was a pick-up that grants a small amount of gated overshields, which instantly refresh when they break, based on a charge system. Another idea I had was something to modify shield density, allowing shields to apply a damage reduction.

Bastille/Vortex - The only thing that bugs me about this is the armour boost from Bastille. 10 seconds base duration while forcing you to stay in the circle and requiring you to keep enemies alive inside it seems a bit stringent. I suggest either allowing Vauban to absorb armour even when he is not inside Bastille, or increasing the base duration quite drastically. Vauban's squishiness is the only problem that's standing in his way, and while he certainly doesn't need to be as unkillable as Gara, Inaros or something of the sort, he could use a little bit more lenience for higher levels.

 

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Just adding to the feedback train on our favorite trainheaded frame. Lord Vauban is unfortunately still underwhelming. It is not something I take joy in saying as this would be the warframe I'd identify with the most. The engineer, master of gadgets, has a lot of toys, but are they useful?

 

Nervos - I love the concept of these rolling stun guns and they are a mixed bag of sorts, on any given mission they can be useful to confusingly ineffectual. The inconsistency mostly stemming from the fact that their A.I. is more A than I. I have had many moments where they have rolled two rooms away to give a rude surprise to some poor grineer, which would not be a bad thing except they continue to shock that poor grineer until recasted or you find that enemy and put them out of their misery. It also leaves an exceptionally bad taste in my mouth whenever an augment is so good that it is actually mandatory for the frame to get benefit out of the ability.  And nervos definitely falls in this category as the augment turns it from being not worth casting at all, to being one of the most vital parts of his kit. That is not a good thing at all, augments should open up new avenues of playstyle and ways to build a frame. But in the case of nervos, you just have the augment, its not an optional thing.

 

Minelayer - Its probably been said to death by now that Vector Pad is bouce pad 2.0. Purely a meme and immediately disregarded as such. And people are not wrong in that assessment. They game has so many ways to move around quickly that I cannot hope to understand why Vauban would need this, especially when the rest of his kit is very stationary. Flechette orb could be interesting, but it is unfortunately way to weak in the damage department where weapons do the job well enough. It would be better off as some kind of debuff, or maybe the darts fired off by the orb could inflict randomized status effects with every hit so it could have some synergy with status weapons? Im not sure what you would do to fix it but its not great as it is currently. Tether Orb is just confusing and redundant to me, it as a CC tool is essentially a weaker form of his number Bastille/Vortex but I dont see a need to have that.  As its probably been said before, id want vector pad to be replaced with some form of additional survivability for higher end missions. I mean literally any form of survival, im desperate. Overshields, DR, a stealth generator, a decoy grenade. Ill take whatever you can give me, but currently at any high level content the second I leave the radius of a bastille and I literally mean the very second it happens or I dont have energy to keep up a bastille, Vauban is dead. I understand its likely frustrating for the team to constantly work in high armor or DR for frames but still have challenging content, however frames that dont have respectable ways to survive are effectively useless past a certain point and that just doesnt feel good for people who have a certain connection with a specific frame and would like to take it to any content without being babysat and constantly revived by your team. Overdriver is fine, no real complaints there.

 

Photon Strike - it looks cool...I never use it though. Probably not the best feedback ever, but I genuinely don't know why its in his kit or what I could use it for. I just think its just effectively a grenade in a game of guns that can already shoot grenades. So not particularly useful either, isolated, or in conjuction with his number 4, I would rather just use a weapon to do the same thing.

Bastille/Vortex - still his bread and butter abilities even after the rework. The armor strip/armor buff is a nice touch. And no significant complains other than the pull strength of vortex could be stronger. Also the inconsistency between what Bastille can and cant CC is still weird, but in all honesty this just goes back to the route issue of his survivability. If he had more or better tools to survive I likely wouldnt care as much about certain enemies being immune to it as an AoE CC. When Limbo can just dodge into invulnerability, or Wukong can just press a single button and laugh at the world, it feels bad that Ive got to have a flow chart for what can be CCed by bastille, what cant, will I kill it before it kills me, has bastille gotten enough armor stripped to help me fight it or not. All sorts of headaches.

Anyways I hope this didnt come off as too negative of feedback. I know you guys work hard on the content and its not easy to do balance. Ember is in a good place now in my opinion. But id like to see Vauban get a little more adjustment.

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Tesla Nervos:

-Thoughts- Neat concept, but not really practical. I cannot tell if they are actually doing anything half the time so I never cast it anymore. (cool juggling animation, I literately only cast it just to see that)

-Problem- Not worth the energy or time to cast it. Even if I do, they run off and I never see them again.

-FIX Ideas- I need to feel like I should cast them at the start of every game, they are suppose to be my buddies! - so they need to be more useful

1. Speed them up so they can do their job faster and keep with you.

2. They should heal your shields per % of Dmg or something else passively - or perhaps give a boost to radar range, they you're little eyes.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Minelayer:

Tether Coil:

-Thoughts- Just not useful enough, not worth the cast or energy

-Problem- It only sticks 2 mobs? Not worth the cast time, and seems to rarely actually pull any mobs, very weak. Not worth the cast time or energy

-Fix- Stick to minimum of 4 per ball (or based on str) Increase pull GREATLY

Flechette Orb:

-Thoughts- Has potential but not enough

-Problem- Impact dmg is weak, and the dmg they do just isn't enough

-Fix- Switch to slash dmg, increase dmg or scale dmg to eneny lvl

Overdriver: Good idea, but too weak.

-Problem- Too weak, don't notice dmg increase- doesn't work on abilities -

-Fix- Trash it- switch it to a survival buff of some kind - dealing with shields-affected by duration- (Vauban is too squishy)

Vector Pad: Worthless, how did this make it in?

-Problem- Has no real use- never going use it. can't believe it even exists.

-Fix- Trash it - swap with speed buff that is affected by duration.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Photon Strike:

-Thoughts- Looks super Cool, unfortunately it's not really worth using.

-Problem- Energy hungry - super long cast time makes it not worth the effort.

-Fix- Make it slightly cheaper and improve the casting time BIG TIME.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Bastille/Vortex

-Thoughts- Mostly good here, but needs tweaks. Could complain about cast time, also could complain about the how armor stripping seems kinda pointless. But really, in my opinion the issue with this ability is simply how weak the augment is for this.

-Problem- Cast time a little high, dunno how armor stripping is too slow/weak, Augment incredibly weak.

-Fix- If you just made the augment better I could live with the other problems.

 

Overall: I appreciate the attempt, but Vauban is a frame that is too weak all around. His kit benefits from Str, Dur, and range Greatly. Any frame that requires buffs to 3 out of the 4 stats from mods to make his kit good will always damned to be weak. Only good min/max frames make it to the top of the pile. If you do not make some huge buffs or changes he is just going to be left behind, forgotten again.

 

TLDR - His kit is still weak, feels like repeat of previous issues, and does not have enough synergy. Other frames do his job better, so why play him?

 

 

 

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On 2019-10-31 at 7:08 PM, [DE]Danielle said:

DEV NOTE:  Because so much is changing by design with THE OLD BLOOD, we want to be clear on how we’re handling your feedback. The majority of week 1-2 Hotfixes will speak to feedback. We want to combine feedback and stats together to iterate. To be a part of the feedback conversation please be constructive and clear (expand the spoilers below for a guide on how to write feedback), and most importantly, patient.

  Reveal hidden contents

 

HOW TO WRITE FEEDBACK: 

1. Keep it simple
Write simple, directed points about the topic you feel strongly about. Remember to be constructive and to the point.

2. Back it up
Support your points with concrete points. X has better stats than Y. This ability is less useful when considering X. Provide in-game situational evidence or a solid foundation for your argument to rest upon.

3. Be polite

The best feedback occurs when two people discuss opposing viewpoints to find a constructive middle ground. Discussion is a natural part of feedback! Ensuring that it is polite and without personal attacks is key. We’re far less inclined to listen to feedback filled with personal attacks and rude speech. We are all trying our best!

The Forums can be an amazing tool when used correctly. We look forward to hearing your thoughts on Grendel, how to acquire him, and his signature weapon! 

 

There’s nothing wrong with first reactions - but relearning takes time. We are especially interested in feedback from players who have taken time to understand The Old Blood. Thank you! 

 

520823d10b176775a887284eaf0db40f.jpg

 This thread will be used to house your feedback on Vauban and Ember’s revisiting from The Old Blood: Update 26.

EMBER REVISITED

Expand the spoilers below for the full list of changes for Ember:

  Reveal hidden contents

 

New Passive: Receive 5% Ability Strength for every enemy within a 50m engulfed in flame (up to a cap). 

FIREBALL
Works fundamentally the same as it does now - tap for quick fire, hold to charge for greater impact. Enemies already inflicted by any Heat Status effect will now take additional damage. 

Fireball has a casting combo, if you use it multiple times rapidly it gets stronger.

The damage output and charge speed also scale off of one of Ember’s newest abilities...
 
IMMOLATION (replacing Accelerant)
Time for a history lesson! Prior to Update 11.5, Ember’s second ability used to be “Overheat”, offering an aura of heat damage which also protected her from enemy fire. Almost SIX years later, it’s time for this ring of fire to come full circle.

When cast, Ember Immolates herself with protective fire armor. Her current level of self-Immolation is indicated by a unique UI indicator; the higher the heat, the more damage resistance, and the more effective Ember’s other abilities become.

The Immolation meter will build slowly at first - using Ember’s Fireball or Inferno causes the meter to build faster. But be warned! If the meter reaches maximum, Ember will “overheat” and Immolation will cost progressively more energy per second the longer you stay in an overheated state. To prevent this from happening, use Fire Blast to expel a portion of your heat meter, or toggle Immolation off to reset meter build.
 
FIRE BLAST
Casting time has been greatly reduced, and the ability now strips armor from nearby enemies. The amount of armor removed scales in effectiveness based on current Immolation levels. On cast, this immediately reduces your Immolation level by up to half.

INFERNO (replacing World On Fire)
Upon casting Inferno, all enemies currently within sight are struck by a fiery comet, lighting each target ablaze in a personal ring of fire. Inferno costs Energy per each target in sight, with the cost capped at 10 targets.

If an enemy ignited by Inferno comes in contact with another unit, the fire will spread, igniting them as well with a fresh ability duration. Damage of the heat AoE scales with current Immolation level.

With these changes, players will take a more active role in “bringing the heat” to all that stand in their way, with added protection that encapsulates Ember’s volatile nature.


Ember Augment Changes:

  • Fireball: Fireball Frenzy: This augment is unchanged.
  • Immolation: Flash Accelerant is now Immolated Radiance: Allies within Affinity range will receive 50% of Immolation’s Damage Reduction.
  • Fire Blast: Fire Fright is now Healing Flame: Each enemy hit heals Ember by 25 to 50 based on the level of the Immolation meter.
  • Inferno: Firequake is now Exothermic: Enemies killed while under the effect of Inferno have a 15% chance to drop an Energy Orb.

 

 

VAUBAN REVISITED

Expand the spoilers below for the full list of changes for Vauban:

  Reveal hidden contents

 

When revisiting Vauban, we aimed to retain his status as a crowd control powerhouse, while increasing his mobility and lethality to keep up with 2019 Warframe’s lightning-quick pace.

TESLA NERVOS (replacing Tesla Grenades)
Instead of sticking to surfaces, these new Tesla Drones will roll around, following the player. Once an enemy comes within range, these Drones will latch on and emit a shock that stuns the target and nearby enemies. Each Drone has a limited number of shock charges before it must be replaced. Hold cast to summon multiple Tesla Nervoses at once!

MINELAYER
All four of his mines have been replaced with new options:

  • Tether Coil pulls a number of nearby enemies to wherever it sticks, rendering them immobile.
  • Flechette Orb fires high velocity nails in all directions, inflicting puncture damage to any unlucky enough to be nearby.
  • Vector Pad lays down a walk pad, granting a boost of speed in a chosen direction (indicated by arrows). Players must be moving in the same direction as the pad to receive a boost, while enemies are affected no matter which way they wanted to go.
  • Overdriver will latch onto a nearby ally or yourself, enhancing their damage output for a period of time.

PHOTON STRIKE (Bastille moved to #4)
A deployable beacon marks a location on the map. After a short countdown, the area is struck by a massive orbital laser explosion (and yes, it does work indoors).

BASTILLE (combined with Vortex)
Vauban’s two marquee powers have been combined into a new and devastating ultimate ability!

When deployed, a Bastille will capture nearby enemies, stripping them of their armor over time. Players standing within a Bastille’s radius will gain a temporary armor increase, building up over time based on how many targets are currently being held in the Bastille.

When a Bastille’s duration expires, it collapses into a brief Vortex at the center of the cast for easy group kills. Want the Vortex to appear sooner, or last longer? Holding the cast key will collapse all active Bastilles early, or if you have no Bastilles, holding will deploy a new Vortex instead.

Overall, many of Vauban’s powers have been streamlined or replaced, making his tools less redundant, and much more versatile for keeping up with the pace of an average Warframe mission.


Vauban Augment Changes:

  • Tesla Nervos: Tesla Bank: While a target has a Nervos attached, any damage dealt to it will be absorbed by the Nervos and channeled into a 8m burst of Electricity on death.
  • No Augment for Minelayer.
  • Photon Strike: Photon Repeater: If Photon Strike hits at least 5 enemies, the next cast will cost no Energy.
  • Bastille: Repelling Bastille: Since Bastille and Vortex have merged, their Augments have merged as well. Enemies within the Bastille have a 100% chance to be repelled every 4s. Plus, Vortex’s duration is increased by 70% of its Maximum Duration for each additional Vortex thrown into it.

 

Need to report a bug? Visit the THE OLD BLOOD Bug Report Megathread.

Vauban is good now , but if we're still in time I would make some minor change the blue mynes , coil something is literally the only useless mine having 2-4-6 enemies latched face down in a horde game is just not good, would welcome back the concuss myne or if we can make some new ability would change the blue mynes with Tesla with a different ability as first , like a shield corpus style? I mean atlas that launch himself to the enemies have it whyle the man vauban that is oneshotted even with 1100 armor cause a super wrong balance in health and shield don't have it ? I don't want a volt shield that buff projectile but just some kind of easier the situation after 1 h of dodging and spamming zenurik to keep Bastille armor up , using furis to heal and killing enemies before they can ragdoll you and oneshot you ( invisible griners granades are effective for that) , btw if is it possible making something visual for the Bastille buff ? Like , would be super cool, don't listen to other not main vauban plz , vector pad is a cool ability and in the free roaming areas have 80% his use  over all other mynes , 

Another thing would u be so kind to fix the photon strike cast speed ? It shouldn't work like that , vauban abilities activate when touching the ground and in freeroaming area it just feel not right , u can be a God launching those balls 100m away but the photon strike will always explode at 15m before touching the ground .

latest?cb=20091220072133

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So Vauban is one of my favourite frames, for looks, concept and abilities, but sorta fell to the side as the game progressed. Personally I'm really enjoying his rework, the new abilities are great and I'm finding him to be a bit of a beast if modded properly. 

My only real issue with the frame so far is that you look at this beefy frame and you think "well armoured explosives expert" but then look at his armour/health/shields and realise he's soft and easy to kill. In testing I find he goes down way too easily. He doesn't meet most caster/dps frames damage, certainly isn't a tank, great support if he could stay up in a fight. More armour or even health is needed for him to keep up and stay in the fight with the other frames. Otherwise fantastic job with the rework! 

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Ember - She handled well in my Arbitration tests, but I honestly never had an issue with using her in ESO or Arbitrations before the rework either.

Passive - Finally a useful one. Thanks.

Fireball

Spoiler

Fireball - It feels more lackluster than before (and it wasn't great before). Fire procs are more useful now, which is awesome - thanks, but this ability doesn't feel like it's worth casting (without the augment) in it's current form. At least before I knew I could leave a burning area for a while and use accelerant to enhance the damage on enemies that would come into it's area. If the goal is to spam it for a damage multiplier...why doesn't it have successive hit cost reduction like Atlas' Landslide? She's far more energy hungry over all since the rework.

Augment still feels necessary to make this slot worth it at the moment.

Immolation

(Update: Rather than my suggestions below, further testing has shown me a better path. Change the synergies with this ability. Let Fire Blast increase heat instead, but make Fireball cost no energy while this is active and consume from the heat meter instead. This gives a much better flow, gives more incentive to use Fireball, and fixes the energy cost issue associated with the encouraged spamming as long as you have immolation on and heat to spend.)

Spoiler

This ability is a mess, in a worse way than Gauss' meter was when he came out. You guys fixed his nicely, so I'm not sure how you took the same concept and made it so much less functional immediately after that. I'm sad that Accelerant is gone, but I can be happy with this ability as a useful replacement so long as it's corrected. Currently it feels like a punishment to use this ability, and I almost always just turn it off and start over rather than lose even more energy by having to cast Fire Blast on top of it.

I get having to build up heat since she's not a defensive frame naturally but I don't understand why it forces you to fight with yourself so much and at such a cost. There's a few alternate ways you could change this.

  1. Remove the additional energy drain when maxed. Instead start a timer when at max heat that will deactivate the ability if you don't cast Fire Blast in that time period. Fire Blast should cost only 50% as much if used in this time period. Casting Fire Blast removes 25% of the max heat instead of 50%, and removes the timer, but it also prevents heat gain for a time. This seems to me like it would create a far more natural gameplay and kit synergy where it allows you to balance your defense better if you put in the effort, but that effort is rewarded more than punished. It costs less energy to maintain, but also encourages not spamming Fire Blast as often since it halts heat gain.
  2. Alternately, an easier fix but with less finesse, just entirely remove the cost of Fire Blast when at max heat. And preferably cut the max drain in half. For someone who is basically a phoenix, heat seems to be pretty harmful to her...
  3. Or my last alternative. Remove the added cost at max, remove the heat increase over time, and the added increase over time from using 1 or 4, and remove the heat loss when using 3. Just make it a normal toggle that requires build up. Using her 1/2/3 add a flat percent to the meter, and you just keep it at full benefit once it's there as long as you keep the ability toggled.

Good augment - I'm all for support potential, especially affinity ranged ones.

Fire Blast

Spoiler

No issues here aside from the cost (in regards to its expected function in her kit due to Immolation synergy). Mechanically, it works and gets more effective with synergy. Not sure exactly why the fire ring had to go though (yes...I was that guy that actually used the weapon buff).

Haven't tested the augment, so no comment there.

Inferno

Spoiler

Great replacement for WoF. I can finally use Ember and not go weeks without ever casting her 4.

It's not a one-shot nuke in high level content that people tend to want, but I'm fine with it. It provides stackable, contagious damage that takes out weaker enemies and it provides scaling potential against the ones that survive it making it easier to take them out by other means. The variable cost, like Blade Storm, makes it smoother to tailor it's use based on available remaining energy. 

And great augment. It's useful team utility, and helps offset a little of her current energy issues (but not enough). It also seems to work on enemies affected by the ability even if they aren't killed by the ability, but I would need more testing to be sure.

 

 

Vauban - Handled well enough in Arbitration defense (but it was infested, I have Adaptation on him). I still don't expect him to stand a chance, as far as surviving, against Corpus and Grineer with his abilities.

Tesla Nervos

Spoiler

Not much to comment on this at the moment. I honestly could barely tell if they were there, and I'm not sure if that's because they were doing their job very well or not enough. I'll try to update this once I have more testing.

Mine Layer

Spoiler

This ability *sigh*.

  • Cycle abilities in general are an overrated gimmick. Most cycle abilities are just full of niche use or ineffective abilities. The tap/hold to cycle is clunky on all of them. Tap to use is fine, but I suggest that Hold brings up a directional menu (like gear, but not radial) and you just press the direction of the ability you want and letting go of the hold will auto cast it. It allows faster switching and smoother casting without jumping through every option in between.
  • Having 4 cycle options is not mandatory just to fill up the slots. If you've only got 2 useful abilities to give him 2 then toss the other two entirely. 

Ok, onto the specifics.

  1. Tether Coil - Honestly, just toss it. You have other abilities that handle this better, even if the cost is higher. Long ago, I actually suggested an ability like this for him based on the Index enemy version. Before the rework, ideally, I would've preferred a supercharged version of this as a replacement for Vortex that just yanks a ton of enemies in and damages them but that' is unnecessary now so no worries. (just toss it)
  2. Flechette Orb - I'm not sure how well it holds up against Corpus and Grineer, but with 2 or 3 casts of this it did seem to tear up Arbitration level Infested. I don't believe you should have to spam something for it to be useful though. For that total 75 energy I was better off just using my weapons and other abilities to kill. My suggestion, give it 100% status chance so at least it consistently weakens enemy damage in all content.
  3. Vector Pad - This is another one you could remove. But if you are going to keep it it should be changed. Remove the directional aspect, just make it a large area that provides allies with a moderate speed buff for a duration (no where near the speed of Volt's buff, just something helpful) when they pass though it. And the enemy propel part is unnecessary - We have better cc options. Don't we lose out on affinity and loot from enemies flung off the map anyway?
  4. Overdriver - Not bad ability, but trying to give the buff to specific people was troublesome.This should be an aura buff. Once it attaches, provides the buff to all in range (non-stacking in case multiple people are carrying the buff in range).

Photon Strike

Spoiler

The damage seems to be ok, I imagine under the right conditions it does well. And has decent cc against survivors.

My only clear issue with this ability is the aiming. The arc of the throw actually makes me miss far more often than I expected. It needs less arc or more distance or something. I just want it to hit what it needs to hit. Maybe give it the same add-on as the Overdriver. Just make it home in on the closest enemy to the impact point before detonation.

As a lesser complaint, the screen shake on this ability is excessive.

Bastille

Spoiler

I'm glad Bastille became the main focus, I was always team Bastille. (Also, thank you for toning down the Vortex visuals...with Epilepsy I always had issues with the flashing from that ability, especially since people loved to spam it)

Overall, I'm happy with the changes to this ability except one part. I haven't tested it again Grineer or Corpus yet, but I'm nearly 100% positive the armor bonus (that is capped and needs time to build up) will be ineffective at keeping you from death in high level content. Considering it is a 4th ability, and limited duration compared to other "area defense" abilities it wouldn't be absurd to ask the defense buff simply be flat damage resistance while within Bastille. Other area abilities also prevent all damage from the outside so just having reasonable damage resistance for just the duration of the Bastille portion shouldn't a lot to ask.

Edit: If you want to be extra fancy you could also make the Vortex portion have a 90% chance to absorb enemy projectiles in range too to make up for the loss of the defense. 😛 

 

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Here's my feedback after playing Ember against high lvl lich missions:

Immolation consumes too much energy.

We already have high micro Management when playing her, with both her meter and energy, the additional energy drain when at the cap is too much. I often just stood there with no energy WITH primed flow just by not focusing on the meter for a couple of seconds. Too much.

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My focus here is Vauban and his third ability Orbital Strike.

Because of a change in charge up speed added in 26.0.4, Orbital Strike now has a maximum range of less than 15 meters. It has made it the shortest ranged ability on a Warframe that is made almost entirely of variable grenades.

This speed up had, what is assumed, unintentional side effects which have been negative. They are the inability to engage at range, and activation well before it hits the ground. Even the effect is warped detonating in the air when the animation was designed for a ground attack hit.

What would of been nice is a reversion of this one change to before the 26.0.4 where the ability was as intended, an artillery strike at range. It is requested that the effect of the orbital strike not happen until or after it hits the ground or target.

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