(PC) Ember & Vauban Revisited Feedback

[Dojutrek]

So, I'm back again, that one Vauban Main, still giving feedback. Not like anyone listens anyway.

Vauban...Oh Vauban...So I've tested him even more since last posting and he's just too squishy to even survive high- or mid-level content without the need of a Focus School (Vazarin) to stay alive. Even with a Vitality Mod and Adaptation, it's quite dubious to live without relying heavily on the abilities he has. Given the fact that modding him is an utter hell, it throws some added difficulty to fit the proper mods in to live.

Overall, I think he needs a global Stat buff. More Health on his Base and Prime form (Base: 100 -> 125, Prime: 100 -> 150) and some more Armor (50 -> 100, 100 -> 150). At least something to give him some more cushion to survive outside of his abilities, which personally I cannot stand the animations for but that's personal preference.

EDIT: Also, after looking over the Patch notes for the past changes to Vauban (Here), he's never received a bump to his stats outside of that disappointing Armor buff in Update 11.2. DE Please Fix.

Edited November 11, 2019 by Dojutrek

[Colyeses]

I think the only thing Vauban needs right now is to have the vector pad replaced with a hard defensive option so he loses his squishiness. I haven't played him much yet, but he seems very solid outside of his durability. Great control, and Photon Blast is a pretty impressive way to destroy your targets!

[Dojutrek]

26 minutes ago, Colyeses said:

I think the only thing Vauban needs right now is to have the vector pad replaced with a hard defensive option so he loses his squishiness. I haven't played him much yet, but he seems very solid outside of his durability. Great control, and Photon Blast is a pretty impressive way to destroy your targets!

To be honest, the problem with Vector pad might as well be the same concept behind the printing of bad Magic: The Gathering Cards. Some find value in it, most don't. It's there to show that most other abilities are better than it. Easier to bump the stats and pray it fixes his issues than it is to shoehorn another ability in the mix.

Personally, I'd rather they'd remove it and just have Minelayer as a 3-cycle ability rather than a 4-cycle. Less Clutter.

EDIT: Hell, I think if they ever make an Augment for Minelayer it should flip the abilities at hand. Defensive abilities become Offensive ones and vice versa. A Shield would be a nice change to say, Flechette orb which is currently an offensive ability (Thinking like a spiked barricade). Tether could return the old Tesla Link/Trip Laser combo dealing damage and a scaling Bleed Proc for all foes passing through. Finally, Overdriver could Debuff enemies with a smoke grenade styled attack which would blind and disorient them for a set duration.

Edited November 11, 2019 by Dojutrek

[Hekkatos]

On 2019-11-07 at 5:17 AM, Dojutrek said:

Playing it safe is an understatement.

As to everyone saying we need Vauban Sentinel...why have a sentinel when you have Balls? Maybe Minelayer should affect Tesla Nervos, overriding or imparting the particular effects on Minelayer to the Nervos. Have them Follow Vauban and use their effects as they pass foes, like:

• Tether would actually pull enemies along like being drawn and dismembered by horses. It already has a Slash Proc...
• Flechette would like the Sentinel Sniper Rifle, dealing high damage to the target and imparting a Puncture Proc on hit.
• Vector Pad would speed up the Balls so they can keep up. In addition to doing the default Nervos effect.
• Overdriver could impart a small area buff or Attach to allies like it does now, but it'd follow around each ally (Since there are 4 Nervos)

And this is just me brainstorming for 5 minutes on the concept. I wonder what DE will do with it.

like his own version of Octavia's Resonator. but more modular. I'm down for that.

[Dojutrek]

14 minutes ago, Hekkatos said:

like his own version of Octavia's Resonator. but more modular. I'm down for that.

Yeah, that was literally 5 minutes. It's not an easy change, take it from a programmer, but it'd give him a bit more versatility and still retain the same 4 limit on his Minelayer.

 

It'd be even more interesting if they made him a true tower defense frame, throwing down glowing tesla spires (TOWER OF POWER style) that zap enemies and link together to form walls. I had a whole write up on it, but it never got any traction. A lot of good ideas go unnoticed and unused on these forums, but that's the nature of Warframe.

Edited November 12, 2019 by Dojutrek

[Dygar]

Vauban's Rework is near perfect in my opinion. Minelayer is the only ability I have a few pet peeves about:

Tether Coil is pretty good. It may only tether 2 enemies, but it makes up for it in its grab range. The pet peeve I have for it is its tethers stay attached to dead bodies, making it difficult to read whatever is attached is alive or dead and also just making a mess out of vision. If the tethers detached on death, that would be perfect.

Flechette Orb is okay. It's a bit lacking at higher levels, but it gets the job done throughout the starchart at least. What would make it better is if it had a stagger effect when it hit enemies. That way it at least has some minor CC to make up for it's low performance at high levels.

Vector Pad is a mixed bag. I do agree with others that Vauban could use a more supportive ability that can bolster his and/or his allies' survivability, but I do see the usefulness in a movement booster as well. That being said, Vector Pad right now is a bit weak when compared to other movement boosting abilities like Volt's Speed, or Saryn's Molt, or even Nova's Wormhole and augment, Terminal Velocity. I think it would be a bit better if it had a lingering speed boost after the initial push.

Finally, Overdriver is an awesome ability... when it works the way you want. The targeting for the mine is a bit funky. There have been many times where I have thrown the Overdriver at an ally and it buffs their Sentinel, or another companion. It even targets Vauban's Tesla Nervos and defense objectives, things that shouldn't normally be buffed. If it only targeted players, or at least prioritized players over everything else, that would perfect.

[Flying_Scorpion]

I've put in some more hours into playing Ember and she seems fine to me. I am aware that many people think she is too energy hungry, but I solved that problem with dethcube, arcane energize, zenurik, and exothermic. Problem solved, I no longer have any issues with energy and I can spam the hell out of her abilities. 

Oh and one more important thing that helped solved the problem - turning her 2nd ability off and back on again when it the heat bar begins rising way too fast. It's just more efficient to turn her 2nd ability off and back on instead of spamming her 3rd ability multiple times in a row. 

Edited November 12, 2019 by Flying_Scorpion

[MrFrog9]

On 2019-11-10 at 6:12 AM, Raqiya said:

I respect your opinion but it still doesn't convince me that it should be kept. 

-It has Tailwind(Zephyr) syndrome meaning you can't control its output leading you to crash into walls and be stuck to it.
-Its possible to effectively use to speed through a mission due to placement speed/travel time and clunky placement.
-Bastilee, Vortex and tether grenade already exists they all hold down choke/defence points and they're all far easier to use.
-Speeding up enemies is neat but again its too awkward to use and doesn't really help much unless its on a massive scale such as speedva.
-there's only a few interception maps where it is somewhat useful and pretty much in any other gamemode its not useful.

I don't see why we should have this as a ability when we could have anything else to make him more survivable for when enemies can't be CC'd

(Sorry for the delay, was taking a break from the forums for mental health reasons because I tend to get obsessive over stuff like this)

I actually mostly agree with all of the flaws you listed although I think you're understating how even on smaller interception maps like that one Grineer Forest map just how much more smoothly and efficiently the mission goes from being able to transit between points faster. Also while skidding around uncontrollably is definitely an issue it's not nearly as bad as with Tailwind where you're literally locked into the direction you're going for a second or more; you do retain some maneuverability.

However, I don't think any of them really justify removing the ability entirely, just polishing it to a point where it's more useful -- increased deployment speed, larger contact radius, longer duration, et cetera. People have been floating some good ideas on that front -- disarming enemies that step on them and giving temporary movement buffs come to mind.

I agree that Vauban is fragile but I haven't been finding it unmanageable, although that's probably because I'm a weenie and constantly run Life Strike (which btw is insanely good now). If DE wants to give him more direct defensive capability it'd be better and much simpler for them to simply tweak how Bastille works, since that already seems intended to be his survivability boost. Just making the armor boost more consistent (eg by letting it boost armor even off of ragdolled or CC-immune enemies) or changing it to a % damage reduction instead of an armor boost (as generic and boring as that would be it is indeed a bit dumb to make Vauban's HP entirely armor-based when he has no native health regeneration at all; Life Strike is literally mandatory on him right now) would go a long way.

On that note, from a pure development standpoint it'd be a lot easier to polish what Vauban already has rather than create an entire new ability from scratch which will itself likely have issues that will need further attention.

(also, slight correction: Tether Grenade does not seem to actually do much at present besides force 2 random enemies into the fetal position, presumably out of secondhand embarrassment, and fill your screen with glitchy leftover tether beams in the process. This doesn't affect your point in any significant way, I just wanted to take this opportunity to whine since it still isn't fixed.)

[Acquire_Manatees]

Why are Wisp's motes better than Vauban?

Thank you in advance for your patience with the length of this post.

 

Here is, numerically and fundamentally, why Wisp's first ability is better than Vauban's entire kit:

 

• Durability
  • Vitality Mote
    • Effect: immediately increases max health by 300 and restores 30 health per second (affected by ability strength)
    • Cost: 25 energy
    • Range: 5 meters (affected by ability range)
    • Duration: indefinite - 30 seconds while outside of the Reservoir's range (affected by ability duration)
    • Has a minimap icon, permanent unless moved or nullified, Wisp can forgo vitality mods in favor of more power strength, increasing both her durability and team support at the same time.
  • Vauban - Bastille
    • Effect: Grants a maximum of 1000 points of bonus armor that builds up while standing within the radius of Bastille, and only when enemies are being suspended in the Bastille. (maximum armor is not affected by ability strength)
    • Cost: 100 energy (requires constant recast in order to maintain armor buff)
    • Range: 10 meters (affected by ability range)
    • Duration: 15 seconds (Bastille) - 10 sec (armor duration outside of Bastille)
    • NO minimap icon, huge energy cost, requires significant duration, efficiency, range, and strength buffs in order to use and maintain, sacrificing modspace that could be used for much-needed durability. Building for an effective Bastille buff, currently, requires sacrificing durability. Why are the two mutually exclusive? Further, Wisp's Vitality Mote, with its health buff and constant health regeneration, allows for effective use of mods like Hunter Adrenaline and Rage for energy generation. Wisp and her entire team have, effectively, unlimited health and energy for one cast of 25 energy while Vauban must constantly use a very expensive ability for a comparatively meager armor buff that would otherwise last ten seconds. Ten seconds.

 

• Damage output
  • Haste Mote
    • Effect: immediately increases movement speed and melee attack speed by 20% and fire rate by 30% (affected by ability strength)
    • Cost: 25 energy
    • Range: 5 meters (affected by ability range)
    • Duration: indefinite - 30 sec (affected by ability duration)
    • Has a minimap icon, permanent unless moved or nullified, Wisp can forgo fire-rate/attack speed mods in favor of more damage mods, increasing her damage output significantly while providing her team with an easy damage boost with little to no effort.
    • All of Wisp's motes provide her Sol Gate beam with a damage buff and armor-stripping capability.
  • Vauban - passive
    • Effect: Inflicts 25% more damage against incapacitated enemies. (Bastille, Vortex, etc.)
    • Does not include electric proc stun or blast proc knockdown.
    • A slightly weaker universal "Bane of" mod against already neutralized enemies. Why is this good? Without it, would a helpless, flailing Grineer ragdoll take two pokes with a primed stick instead of one? Are the slash procs from shooting a Bastille-bound level 6 million Corrupted Bombard in the face really that much better? I personally have not noticed a difference, so please enlighten me.
  • Vauban - Tesla Nervos/Bank
    • Effect: Deploy a roller drone that attaches itself to nearby enemies and shocks anything in the immediate area. Hold cast to release 4 drones. (number of drones is not affected by power strength)
    • Damage: 150 electric damage per charge (affected by ability strength)
    • Cost: 25 energy
    • Range: 6 meters (affected by ability range)
    • Duration: 10 charges (affected by ability duration)
    • Completely irrelevant as a damage ability. Charging an ability should not be mandatory to use its full effectiveness. Vauban's upper body is completely motionless except for his left arm during the juggling animation; it looks very strange and out of place. Rollers move slowly and do not teleport to Vauban, nor are they visible on the map.
    • Tesla Bank stores damage done to an attached enemy and releases the damage on death in an 8 meter radius (affected by power range) on death. Requires way too much setup time to be considered, and takes up a mod slot. If the ability itself were orders of magnitude better/more interactive, Tesla Bank would be a solid augment.
  • Vauban - Flechette Orb
    • Effect: deals 300 puncture damage to nearby enemies (affected by ability strength)
    • Cost: 25 energy
    • Range: N/A
    • Duration: 25 seconds (affected by ability duration)
    • Why not just shoot them?
  • Vauban - Overdriver
    • Effect: buffs one ally within range of the mine with a 25% damage bonus to their weapons. (affected by ability strength)
    • Cost: 25 energy
    • Range: 10 meters (affected by ability range)
    • Duration: 25 seconds (affected by ability duration, can not be refreshed until it expires)
    • Damage buffs are good, this one is not. Even with maximum range I find myself running after my allies rapidly throwing overdrivers until one of them sticks for thirty seconds for an OK damage boost. Not strong enough/long enough of a boost to be worth the effort required to execute.
  • Vauban - Photon Strike
    • Effect: AoE blast damage based on ability strength and enemy level
    • Cost: 75 energy
    • Range: 5 meters (affected by ability range)
    • Armor exists, Ancient healers exist, Ancient disruptors (especially) exist. Thankfully Vauban has his trusty concuss and shred mines to deal with those threats, right? Jokes aside, it kills Corpus. Then again, so does a Tonkor. Wisp's Haste Mote makes your existing weapons fire significantly faster, and your buffed melee weapons would likely make short work of whatever was in that five-meter radius of enemies for a grand total of 0 energy.

 

• Crowd Control
  • Shock Mote
    • Effect: Shocks 5 nearby enemies every 3 seconds with chain lightning with a 100% chance to proc stun.
    • Cost: 25 energy
    • Range: 15 meters (affected by ability range)
    • Duration: indefinite - 30 seconds (affected by ability duration)
    • This passively CC's enemies around you and your allies with a %100 chance to proc electricity. If that does not immediately clue you in to Vauban's mediocrity, I hope that the following information will.
  • Vauban - Tesla Nervos
    • Effect: attaches itself to an enemy and stuns everything around that enemy with a 50% chance to proc stun. (proc chance is not affected by ability strength)
    • Cost: 25 energy
    • Range: 6 meters (affected by ability range)
    • Duration: 10 charges (affected by ability duration)
    • The difference in usability, practicality, efficiency, and effectiveness is staggering. Even if the drones did not wander off in a random direction without returning to/keeping up with Vauban, and instead orbited around Vauban constantly, Wisp's Shock Mote would still be the vastly superior CC option in any scenario because of the range, proc chance, and team support.
  • Vauban - Tether Coil
    • Effect: incapacitates and pulls in 2 enemies (number of enemies is not affected by power strength)
    • Cost: 25 energy
    • Range: 20 meters (affected by ability range)
    • Duration: 25 seconds (affected by ability duration)
    • Why not just use a Vortex? Currently, the laser lines do not expire upon enemy death. Throw four tether mines on your ally and watch them run around confused as they become the center of a very colorful and confused spiderweb. Goofy and buggy, how much testing was done for this? who wanted this?
  • Vauban - Bastille / Vortex
    • Effect: suspend 12 enemies in the air within a 10 meter radius. Hold cast to collapse into a vortex. (number of affected enemies in the radius of Bastille is affected by power strength, but the number of enemies affected by Vortex is not affected by power strength)
    • Cost: 100 energy
    • Range: 10 meters (affected by ability range)
    • Duration: 15 seconds, 3 seconds of vortex upon Bastille collapse. (affected by ability duration)
    • Bastille has an enemy cap, so why would Bastille ever be used over Vortex for pure CC? A maximum-range Vortex is now a formidable method of clearing a large group of enemies. However, ragdolling enemies across the entire tile (except non-CC-able enemies) and throwing them around violently until the enemies either form a loose cluster or get stuck on the terrain is not, as many players voice to me during public missions, how they wish to play Warframe. Wisp's Shock Mote only CC's enemies nearby to your teammates and allows them to be easily dealt with in a traditional manner. Wisp's Shock mote is better than Vauban's Bastille/Vortex because it disables enemies around your allies automatically and doesn't cause an eye-melting spectacle.

 

• Mobility
  • Haste Mote
    • Effect: immediately increases movement speed 20% (affected by ability strength)
    • Cost: 25 energy
    • Range: 5 meters (affected by ability range)
    • Duration: indefinite - 30 seconds (affected by ability duration)
    • Probably the best team speed buff in the game. It is cheap, renewable, and boosts all movement. This is beneficial to all Warframes in any mission type. Wisp can also teleport to any of her motes within line of sight using her Breach Surge ability. This has an unlimited range.
  • Vauban - Vector Pad
    • Effect: creates a directional boost pad that propels allies and enemies in the direction the pad is facing at a rate of 25 meters per second (affected by power strength)
    • Cost: 25 energy
    • Duration: 25 seconds (affected by ability duration)
    • How could this possibly help anything anywhere? Why is this an improvement to bounce? This serves no purpose other than goofing around. Once again, who wanted this? Why?

 

TL;DR, Either Wisp is grossly overpowered, or Vauban is still goofy, mediocre, and irrelevant. Take your pick. The power gap between these two Warframes has been highlighted here and Vauban's rework effectively left him exactly where he was prior. Vauban can not.

 

Thank you for reading. Right now Vauban still has little to no effective durability, significant ability overlap, below-average team support, and can do nothing that another Warframe can't do significantly better. This needs to be addressed now before Vauban trails even further behind newer Warframes and the level of content in the game. A good rework, as evidenced in the past, streamlines a Warframe's ease of use and brings it up to a level where it can participate in every available mission type and still be moderately effective. That way they can remain relevant until the next major shift in gameplay meta. Vauban is nowhere near this point yet, for a multitude of reasons.

 

Someone at DE must recognize that Vauban desperately needs a kit that is at least comparable in effectiveness and ease-of-use to other Warframes. Please, for all of us, for Vauban, for the quality of future reworks, make noise until someone up there listens. Thank you for your consideration.

 

-Manatees

 

Sources:

https://warframe.fandom.com/wiki/Vauban#Abilities

https://warframe.fandom.com/wiki/Reservoirs

[Dojutrek]

2 hours ago, Acquire_Manatees said:

-snip-

I think this shows how out of control the Power Creep is in Warframe. The worst part is, DE doesn't stop. It's a constant churn of content, eventually even Wisp will be underpowered and overshadowed like Vauban is right now. It has gotten to the point where they can't Focus (HA!) on bringing old content forward in a way where it functions and is sustainable. Instead of bringing their all, they release reworks like this and it's disappointing.

 

But that's not here nor there, I'm on a tangent and back to the topic on hand. Sustaining Vauban in combat is just bad, Hard CC isn't working for him anymore. Maybe a more utilitarian Minelayer kit would be better focused around long, drawn out combat. Sort of like a Battlefield "TRAUMA KIT" for rapid response in Emergencies. Sustaining himself and his teammates, not just defensively through Control abilities like Bastille.

Edited November 12, 2019 by Dojutrek
Messed up the Lingo. Oops, fixed.

[Tatann]

Considering how broken CC is (more and more enemies ignoring it), he clearly deserves a shift (while maintaining a strong CC aspect). Orbital Strike was a step in damage, new Bastille is a step in both debuff (armor stripping) and buff (bonus armor), but the armor buff is so badly implemented (10 sec out of Bastille, enemies killed before the armor cap can be reached, armor cap not affected by strength) that Vauban still sits behind 95% of the Warframes in terms of survivability

 

 

[KenthNisshoku]

Please change the throw animation on Photon Strike because it is really awkward to use (who throws like that in real life? its like a 1 hand hadouken)  and give it the same throw animation of his Bastille.

 

[Tatann]

Hi,

 

Here's my "computed" feedback after a good 10 days of playing the reworked version of Vauban on various content/mission type.

 

1) Tesla Nervos :

 - Tesla rollers should attack distinct enemies (if more than one enemy in their detection range)

 - Tesla rollers should teleport back to Vauban when out of Affinity range (no point in CCing an enemy more than 50m away)

 

2) Minelayer : 

 - Tether : number of affected enemies should be changed to at least 3 and/or be affected by power strength

 - Flechette : make it aim enemies and not making a constant noise (and visual clutter), or be an AoE pulse (Impact with 100% proc chance)

 - Overdrive : all allies (warframes, pets, sentinels, specters) in range of the "grenade" are affected by the boost

 - Vector pad : replace it with a defensive ability (projectile stopping, DR applying or "healing" ability)

 

3) Orbital Strike : make it detonate AFTER impact with the ground or an enemy. But overall I'd replace it with a laser pointer and not be a thrown grenade (throw animation is bad, travel is bad, range is bad)

 

4) Bastille/Vortex :

 - Bastille : 

 -- remove or greatly extend enemy cap (similar to Khora's cage)

 -- armor bonus duration outside of Bastille should match Wisp equivalent (30 seconds) AND/OR slowly degrade outside of Bastille (like Atlas bonus armor)

 -- armor bonus cap should match similar bonuses (Atlas, Wukong) at 1500 armor

 -- armor bonus should grow steadily while enemies are hold in Bastille AND get a fixed amount if enemies are killed inside Bastille (similar to petrified enemies from Atlas)

 

 - Vortex : 

 -- enemies in Vortex range should have their shield reduced (equivalent of armor stripping for shields)

 --  Vortex should provide overshield (up to 1200) to allies in range, based on the number of enemies affected by it (equivalent of armor bonus), something like 50 shield / enemy / second

 

====================================================

My reasons :

1) Tesla : The goal is CC, not damage. Doing 4 times insignificant damage on 1 enemy is useless, but CCing 4 distinct enemies is good

Also, no point in CCing enemies more than 50m away while some others are only meters away, ready to attack you

 

2) Flechette : AoE Impact pulse means 100% of the enemies in range affected by a stagger proc. Punctured enemies deal 70% damage, staggered enemies deal 0% damage. Also a pulse feels more in lore with Vauban (space engineer) than flechettes

Overdrive : a damage boost (like any buff) is a good feature for an engineer, but in the current form, it's a chore to apply on allies

Vector Pad : I'm all for the fun, but come on, Vauban needs some useful abilities (especially in survivability) before we can start having fun

 

3) The thrown mechanic (especially the new slow one) is cool looking, but it doesn't need to be on ALL abilities. A laser pointer for an aerial/orbital strike makes more sense while still looking cool (I think it even looks better)

 

4) Bastille armor buff needs some love, it's only number tweaks, shouldn't cost too much to implement

Vortex needs some buff/debuff functionality, I think shield debuffing is common sense for magnetic damage, and overshield is a "good but not OP" buff (especially against Corpus and their puncture weapons).

It would make Vauban's 4th ability an adaptive response to enemy faction (Bastille against Grineer, Vortex against Corpus)

 

====================================================

Stats : please, just please give him a little bit more armor/HP to match his speed AND appearance. You have DPS frame faster and tankier (I'm not even considering their abilities).

I think Oberon should be a good reference for his stats, something like 125/375 (rank 0/30) for HP and 200 armor

 

Energy : make energy cost 25/25/50/75 instead of 25/25/75/100

Orbital Strike is "fine", but 75 energy is a lot for what a weapon could easily do

And even if Bastille is better now than before, 100 energy is a lot, especially if you need to spam it to maintain armor bonus

 

Here with my one and only Umbral Forma, waiting to install it on Vauban since the rework has been announced

Edited November 12, 2019 by Tatann

[Lancars]

I thought i'd give my short thought on vauban.

His kit is okay. But i don't bother with overdriver or the pad much. Overdriver seems to randomly choose a tenno or their companion which ends up being a waste. And i have to chase people down to give it to them. I can't refresh them so its more of a hassle for a small boost.

I don't use tether much it feels situational plus it seems to leave lines everywhere. Plus you can't choose what it tethers so if you want to stop that eximus or nox you have to hope or spam them since they only hook 2 target. So i barely use it. Maybe if i need a boost in damage.

Flechette i use a lot. One of the big ones i use to hold spots.

The armor buff from Bastille is great but it doesn't last very long outside of it so sometimes i gotta put another Bastille down so i don't lose the buff.

 

Personally i'd ditch the pad and overdriver and just combine them into making some kinda small barricade wall that if you're standing behind it you get the damage buff like if you used overdriver. Positioning would be key and don't allow the damage bonuses from them to stack. So someone who wants to hold a spot has a spot they can duck behind while still shooting back.

You can also bring back one of those explosive mines. Combine the two older ones for a nice little explosive surprise.

[KroneVanguard]

Make Ember fun again 'cause I've returned to the game after a couple of months and I want to uninstall it right now. I don't like any of her powers. They are boring, difficult to use and understand. Boring, boring, super boring, not funny. I hate this game so much right now. 😕 I hope TERA server maintanance end up pretty soon.

This is my feedback: 🖕

(And I've played in the Plains and when a player exit, it keeps disconnecting from the session. It wasn't like that before, so 🖕 again).

😝😝😝

[8r8kSpider]

As a longtime Ember fan I could not be more pleased to see Overheat return in the form of Immolation, functionally making Ember a viable frame with its re-inclusion alone.

My feedback is simple:

Adjust Immolation to have two states, one where heat builds and you get damage reduction, and a second state, activated by toggle (held press on the ability key) to shunt her heat with drain proportionate to the buildup. (I.E. If she's building heat quickly make it shunt quickly, if she's building heat slow, make it a slow burn)

On toggling to the heat shunt (something that could cost energy, say, 10/15/20/25 at base, as casting Immolation costs nothing) she could go from having damage resistance to radial damage on the same level as she gets damage reduction, I.E. at 90% heat the radial fire damage ignores 90% of enemy armor, and as the heat is shunted, you deal less and less damage. Maybe have a radius of 1/2/3 meters at most, so it never becomes the same sort of crutch World on Fire was for Ember's kit.

Adding this toggle would allow Ember players a way to control their heat buildup, give her a small radius constant damage ability, like the original Overheat, and make players think tactically about how to best conserve their damage resistance.

In short I want to be able to use her 2 to simply control her heat better, and make Immolate more reminiscent of the original Overheat, plus give Ember a small amount of radial damage (nothing like World on Fire was, but it would be a very lovely nod to her old kit).

My justification is simple: If she has to sacrifice damage reduction to deal damage, the power won't be overused as her primary damage output, it simply allows Ember players to control their heat gauge more immediately and directly instead of having to shunt almost a third of their DR with a 75 energy cast that can quickly leave Ember players without enough energy to keep up the outgoing heat damage which makes the frame so appealing. 

As the power's damage scales with its ability to ignore enemy armor by a percent, rather than a flat amount of damage that gets larger, it would scale well and work with her new 'armor melting' theme, even if the base damage dealt to enemies was fairly low. The original Overheat delt armor-ignoring damage at low amounts, after all, and was so powerful it got cut from her kit for 5 years. The damage decreasing rather than building over time prevents people from over-using Immolate as a damage source, instead only encouraging its use as a way to mediate your heat buildup.




I absolutely love the rework over all, Ember was my absolute favorite frame right when I was getting into this game six years ago, her nerf (right in time for her prime) almost had me uninstall the game back then, glad I didn't so I could be here to see my favorite fiery frame get the treatment she deserves, cheers! ✌️

[Reivhyn]

22 hours ago, Flying_Scorpion said:

I've put in some more hours into playing Ember and she seems fine to me. I am aware that many people think she is too energy hungry, but I solved that problem with dethcube, arcane energize, zenurik, and exothermic. Problem solved, I no longer have any issues with energy and I can spam the hell out of her abilities. 

Oh and one more important thing that helped solved the problem - turning her 2nd ability off and back on again when it the heat bar begins rising way too fast. It's just more efficient to turn her 2nd ability off and back on instead of spamming her 3rd ability multiple times in a row. 

I really don't think a Warframe should require all 4 of those solutions to energy management just to maintain energy. I mean that's a lot

[(PSN)TechSSBU]

I'd love to get some extra love for ember from what I've seen an increase to Ember's 4 damage and honestly a removal of the overheat downside. Gauss' meter is purely a good thing idk why the same can't be made for ember

[MrFrog9]

14 hours ago, Dojutrek said:

I think this shows how out of control the Power Creep is in Warframe. The worst part is, DE doesn't stop. It's a constant churn of content, eventually even Wisp will be underpowered and overshadowed like Vauban is right now.

The really hilarious/sad thing is that IIRC back in May DE stated that they were trying to dial back the power creep... then released Wisp and Newkong. Since they're not doing hyper AoE spam anymore (or they weren't, until Pablo got his grubby mitts on Ember) it seems that they're just making frames nearly immortal as a compromise.

 

8 hours ago, Lancars said:

Personally i'd ditch the pad and overdriver and just combine them into making some kinda small barricade wall that if you're standing behind it you get the damage buff like if you used overdriver.

Tbh I'd be fine if Overdriver got replaced or at the very least got a defensive effect. It's very generic as it is.

[Hypernaut1]

 

3 hours ago, (PS4)TechSSBU said:

I'd love to get some extra love for ember from what I've seen an increase to Ember's 4 damage and honestly a removal of the overheat downside. Gauss' meter is purely a good thing idk why the same can't be made for ember

i feel like Embers design is better than Gauss. 

[Hekkatos]

On 2019-11-12 at 1:09 PM, Dojutrek said:

Yeah, that was literally 5 minutes. It's not an easy change, take it from a programmer, but it'd give him a bit more versatility and still retain the same 4 limit on his Minelayer.

 

It'd be even more interesting if they made him a true tower defense frame, throwing down glowing tesla spires (TOWER OF POWER style) that zap enemies and link together to form walls. I had a whole write up on it, but it never got any traction. A lot of good ideas go unnoticed and unused on these forums, but that's the nature of Warframe.

I've seen so many more interesting 5 minute ideas from people than how ever long it took for DE to come up with what they have.
they seem totally determined to maintain his framework despite it being the wrong game for it.
I'd rather they went down swinging and done something totally different even if people hated it, than continuing to try and fit a square peg in a round hole.

[Balvor]

After playing and testing the new Vauban these are my thoughts

Tesla Nervos:

1. The AI for these is just so bad that the ability doesn't function well. The balls will run off, get stuck on door ways or terrain changes or just sit in front of enemies and look at them. Also not sure if this is a bug or feature but when hit by an aoe atk like the Heavy gunners slam the balls just stop working like they have been stunned or knocked down but never recover.

2. Its far to easy to out pace the balls and they just never catch up.

3. I will say when they work they work well though and the augment is a nice addition to the skill but getting them to work is unreliable at best

Minelayer :

1. Tether Coil- This being hard caped to 2 enemies at a time and a max of 4 active at once makes the ability completely useless over his Bastille/Vortex as the casting time is similar and if your not already on Tether it is faster to use Bastille/Vortex. This needs to have its cap increased or affected by Strength or Duration.

2. Flechette Orb- The damage, accuracy and ai of this ability all need to be looked at. The fact it can miss enemies that are next to it is simply ridiculous. Rather then basing this ability of the Azima base it of the much better Zenistar and have it do AOE pulses even add in the ability to change the damage type like with Zephyr's Tornado.

3. Vector Pad- Please just remove this ability and make a new one that can provide some survivability. such as a deplorably shield used by the Corpus units or even a mini bubble like Limbo or Frost.

4. Overdriver- The only useful part of this skill and even then its a single target ability. would be nice if it had an AOE around the frame its attached too, or turn it into a stationary buff area like Wisp.

Orbital Strike:

1. The cast animation for this is so god dam slow, yes it looks great and even better in the air but it takes so long for you to cast let alone travel to the area and go off. The changes to make it detonate on contact are a huge help but the animation time still needs to be looked at.

2. The base range of the ability could do with a little bit of a buff or maybe a slight Vortex like effect just to help with any enemies that have moved just out of range and so its not mandatory to use Vortex before casting this.

3. The energy cost of 75 is a bit on the expensive side. The augment is meant to help with this but personally I find the augment lacking as if the enemies have not been killed by it which they likely haven't they are scattered all over meaning you need to cast Vortex to bring them back in which is more expensive then casting Orbital Strike again. Having it provide energy for each enemy hit like Virulence from Nidus or cause the enemies to drop energy orbs like other frames augments can (Ember and Gara)

Bastille/Vortex:

1. Bastille needs its enemy cap increased greatly or totally removed it never made much sense and now that it has been combined with Vortex that has no cap it makes even less sense to keep it capped.

2. The armor drain should effect shields as well. Having the ability only work on armor is silly when many units have little or no armor. Just like how Mag's Polarize was changed to work on shields and armor this needs to work on both too. It could also then provide bonus armor and overshields helping to increase survivability

3. The armor buff timer and limit need to be increased. Why is it only 1000 when all other similar buffs are 1500 and why is the buff timer so low on top of the fact it fully removes the armor when it times out even though it can take a significant amount of time to build up. Wukong and Chroma buffs last for 25 seconds base, Wisp Reservoirs last 30 seconds. Vauban's lasts 10 seconds

4. The time it takes to remove enemy armor is far to long for a game as fast passed as Warframe. Taking 4 to 5 seconds or more 10 seconds at base to remove the armor from an enemy is far to long when we have frames and weapons that can do so instantly, Ash, Frost, Mag and Ember can all instantly remove all of an enemies armor possibly killing it in the process. Adding in a flat amount removed on first hit, having the base % being higher or have it scale depending on the number of enemies affected so more enemies means more armor drain.

5. Vortex still works just as well as it always did and now having Bastille collapse into Vortex is a nice addition and provides some much needed extra control to set up another Bastille or Vortex to keep enemies controlled.

6. The energy cost of 100 is rather expensive. Just like with Orbital Strike give how often Vauban is casting this ability and with its current enemy caps and rather bad base range and duration you are casting this ability often and can run dry very fast as you have no inbuilt energy management like other frames.

7. The augment is still rather poor Repelling Bastille only working every 4 seconds makes it unattractive to use as enemies can very easily down you in the 4 seconds it takes to push them out. Perpetual Vortex has always been buggy about combining the Vortex's or making a new one next to the already going one.

Over all the new Vauban is much nicer and so close to being a great frame he just needs to have his abilities brought inline with some of the other frames out there like Wisp and Khora and have his animation speeds and survivability looked at. Yes the animation are beautiful and i love watching them but they are just to slow and in a game where players are bouncing of walls and flipping through the air no one has time for Vauban to set up a beautiful and elaborate 30 seconds trap combo to kill enemies.

[Xyhon]

Vauban:

Squishy. Anything over 70- level is almost one shotting him, and the armor "gain" mechanic does not compensate it, and is wayy to slow to actually make up for his base stats and lack of any damage reduction. 

Skills:

1. Almost always lost somewhere, instead of following you and picking closest targets, they tend to wander off and start attaching to random gone away enemy, which makes you recast them in hope for actually being of any use. Also, considering electricity as CC, they are way to random, and the proc is way too low to make any difference in your survival, especially on the move.

2. Flechette should behave like a turret, instead of just random rotator. Tether - what is it, some poor mans effect? It hardly does anything other than capture two or even one random enemy and drag them through the floor/walls/whatever is in the way. Speed pads... Well, I pretend they are not there, because they suck anyway. Damage boost - there is a whole gallery of frames which do it better. Almost useless.

3. Moderatly fine, targeting and delay mechanic needs some tweaking, because it tends to go off full random sometimes.

4. Base range is still way too low, this ability should be not only Vaubans CC and buff, but also, capable of "locking down" areas. We can already make much better use of other frames, for example, Khora and her dome which also acts as target practice for enemies.

Passive is ok, considering it gives some synergy to 3 and 4.

Other than that, I do find him still, energy hungry, micro heavy and not so armored in terms of survival. I can have fun times with his kit, but mostly on lich missions, he tends to drop like a fly from even lighter enemies, and armor buff buildup is way too slow now.

[Phaeronimus]

On 2019-11-12 at 9:06 AM, Acquire_Manatees said:

Why are Wisp's motes better than Vauban?

Thank you in advance for your patience with the length of this post.

 

Here is, numerically and fundamentally, why Wisp's first ability is better than Vauban's entire kit:

 

• Durability
  • Vitality Mote
    • Effect: immediately increases max health by 300 and restores 30 health per second (affected by ability strength)
    • Cost: 25 energy
    • Range: 5 meters (affected by ability range)
    • Duration: indefinite - 30 seconds while outside of the Reservoir's range (affected by ability duration)
    • Has a minimap icon, permanent unless moved or nullified, Wisp can forgo vitality mods in favor of more power strength, increasing both her durability and team support at the same time.
  • Vauban - Bastille
    • Effect: Grants a maximum of 1000 points of bonus armor that builds up while standing within the radius of Bastille, and only when enemies are being suspended in the Bastille. (maximum armor is not affected by ability strength)
    • Cost: 100 energy (requires constant recast in order to maintain armor buff)
    • Range: 10 meters (affected by ability range)
    • Duration: 15 seconds (Bastille) - 10 sec (armor duration outside of Bastille)
    • NO minimap icon, huge energy cost, requires significant duration, efficiency, range, and strength buffs in order to use and maintain, sacrificing modspace that could be used for much-needed durability. Building for an effective Bastille buff, currently, requires sacrificing durability. Why are the two mutually exclusive? Further, Wisp's Vitality Mote, with its health buff and constant health regeneration, allows for effective use of mods like Hunter Adrenaline and Rage for energy generation. Wisp and her entire team have, effectively, unlimited health and energy for one cast of 25 energy while Vauban must constantly use a very expensive ability for a comparatively meager armor buff that would otherwise last ten seconds. Ten seconds.

 

• Damage output
  • Haste Mote
    • Effect: immediately increases movement speed and melee attack speed by 20% and fire rate by 30% (affected by ability strength)
    • Cost: 25 energy
    • Range: 5 meters (affected by ability range)
    • Duration: indefinite - 30 sec (affected by ability duration)
    • Has a minimap icon, permanent unless moved or nullified, Wisp can forgo fire-rate/attack speed mods in favor of more damage mods, increasing her damage output significantly while providing her team with an easy damage boost with little to no effort.
    • All of Wisp's motes provide her Sol Gate beam with a damage buff and armor-stripping capability.
  • Vauban - passive
    • Effect: Inflicts 25% more damage against incapacitated enemies. (Bastille, Vortex, etc.)
    • Does not include electric proc stun or blast proc knockdown.
    • A slightly weaker universal "Bane of" mod against already neutralized enemies. Why is this good? Without it, would a helpless, flailing Grineer ragdoll take two pokes with a primed stick instead of one? Are the slash procs from shooting a Bastille-bound level 6 million Corrupted Bombard in the face really that much better? I personally have not noticed a difference, so please enlighten me.
  • Vauban - Tesla Nervos/Bank
    • Effect: Deploy a roller drone that attaches itself to nearby enemies and shocks anything in the immediate area. Hold cast to release 4 drones. (number of drones is not affected by power strength)
    • Damage: 150 electric damage per charge (affected by ability strength)
    • Cost: 25 energy
    • Range: 6 meters (affected by ability range)
    • Duration: 10 charges (affected by ability duration)
    • Completely irrelevant as a damage ability. Charging an ability should not be mandatory to use its full effectiveness. Vauban's upper body is completely motionless except for his left arm during the juggling animation; it looks very strange and out of place. Rollers move slowly and do not teleport to Vauban, nor are they visible on the map.
    • Tesla Bank stores damage done to an attached enemy and releases the damage on death in an 8 meter radius (affected by power range) on death. Requires way too much setup time to be considered, and takes up a mod slot. If the ability itself were orders of magnitude better/more interactive, Tesla Bank would be a solid augment.
  • Vauban - Flechette Orb
    • Effect: deals 300 puncture damage to nearby enemies (affected by ability strength)
    • Cost: 25 energy
    • Range: N/A
    • Duration: 25 seconds (affected by ability duration)
    • Why not just shoot them?
  • Vauban - Overdriver
    • Effect: buffs one ally within range of the mine with a 25% damage bonus to their weapons. (affected by ability strength)
    • Cost: 25 energy
    • Range: 10 meters (affected by ability range)
    • Duration: 25 seconds (affected by ability duration, can not be refreshed until it expires)
    • Damage buffs are good, this one is not. Even with maximum range I find myself running after my allies rapidly throwing overdrivers until one of them sticks for thirty seconds for an OK damage boost. Not strong enough/long enough of a boost to be worth the effort required to execute.
  • Vauban - Photon Strike
    • Effect: AoE blast damage based on ability strength and enemy level
    • Cost: 75 energy
    • Range: 5 meters (affected by ability range)
    • Armor exists, Ancient healers exist, Ancient disruptors (especially) exist. Thankfully Vauban has his trusty concuss and shred mines to deal with those threats, right? Jokes aside, it kills Corpus. Then again, so does a Tonkor. Wisp's Haste Mote makes your existing weapons fire significantly faster, and your buffed melee weapons would likely make short work of whatever was in that five-meter radius of enemies for a grand total of 0 energy.

 

• Crowd Control
  • Shock Mote
    • Effect: Shocks 5 nearby enemies every 3 seconds with chain lightning with a 100% chance to proc stun.
    • Cost: 25 energy
    • Range: 15 meters (affected by ability range)
    • Duration: indefinite - 30 seconds (affected by ability duration)
    • This passively CC's enemies around you and your allies with a %100 chance to proc electricity. If that does not immediately clue you in to Vauban's mediocrity, I hope that the following information will.
  • Vauban - Tesla Nervos
    • Effect: attaches itself to an enemy and stuns everything around that enemy with a 50% chance to proc stun. (proc chance is not affected by ability strength)
    • Cost: 25 energy
    • Range: 6 meters (affected by ability range)
    • Duration: 10 charges (affected by ability duration)
    • The difference in usability, practicality, efficiency, and effectiveness is staggering. Even if the drones did not wander off in a random direction without returning to/keeping up with Vauban, and instead orbited around Vauban constantly, Wisp's Shock Mote would still be the vastly superior CC option in any scenario because of the range, proc chance, and team support.
  • Vauban - Tether Coil
    • Effect: incapacitates and pulls in 2 enemies (number of enemies is not affected by power strength)
    • Cost: 25 energy
    • Range: 20 meters (affected by ability range)
    • Duration: 25 seconds (affected by ability duration)
    • Why not just use a Vortex? Currently, the laser lines do not expire upon enemy death. Throw four tether mines on your ally and watch them run around confused as they become the center of a very colorful and confused spiderweb. Goofy and buggy, how much testing was done for this? who wanted this?
  • Vauban - Bastille / Vortex
    • Effect: suspend 12 enemies in the air within a 10 meter radius. Hold cast to collapse into a vortex. (number of affected enemies in the radius of Bastille is affected by power strength, but the number of enemies affected by Vortex is not affected by power strength)
    • Cost: 100 energy
    • Range: 10 meters (affected by ability range)
    • Duration: 15 seconds, 3 seconds of vortex upon Bastille collapse. (affected by ability duration)
    • Bastille has an enemy cap, so why would Bastille ever be used over Vortex for pure CC? A maximum-range Vortex is now a formidable method of clearing a large group of enemies. However, ragdolling enemies across the entire tile (except non-CC-able enemies) and throwing them around violently until the enemies either form a loose cluster or get stuck on the terrain is not, as many players voice to me during public missions, how they wish to play Warframe. Wisp's Shock Mote only CC's enemies nearby to your teammates and allows them to be easily dealt with in a traditional manner. Wisp's Shock mote is better than Vauban's Bastille/Vortex because it disables enemies around your allies automatically and doesn't cause an eye-melting spectacle.

 

• Mobility
  • Haste Mote
    • Effect: immediately increases movement speed 20% (affected by ability strength)
    • Cost: 25 energy
    • Range: 5 meters (affected by ability range)
    • Duration: indefinite - 30 seconds (affected by ability duration)
    • Probably the best team speed buff in the game. It is cheap, renewable, and boosts all movement. This is beneficial to all Warframes in any mission type. Wisp can also teleport to any of her motes within line of sight using her Breach Surge ability. This has an unlimited range.
  • Vauban - Vector Pad
    • Effect: creates a directional boost pad that propels allies and enemies in the direction the pad is facing at a rate of 25 meters per second (affected by power strength)
    • Cost: 25 energy
    • Duration: 25 seconds (affected by ability duration)
    • How could this possibly help anything anywhere? Why is this an improvement to bounce? This serves no purpose other than goofing around. Once again, who wanted this? Why?

 

TL;DR, Either Wisp is grossly overpowered, or Vauban is still goofy, mediocre, and irrelevant. Take your pick. The power gap between these two Warframes has been highlighted here and Vauban's rework effectively left him exactly where he was prior. Vauban can not.

 

Thank you for reading. Right now Vauban still has little to no effective durability, significant ability overlap, below-average team support, and can do nothing that another Warframe can't do significantly better. This needs to be addressed now before Vauban trails even further behind newer Warframes and the level of content in the game. A good rework, as evidenced in the past, streamlines a Warframe's ease of use and brings it up to a level where it can participate in every available mission type and still be moderately effective. That way they can remain relevant until the next major shift in gameplay meta. Vauban is nowhere near this point yet, for a multitude of reasons.

 

Someone at DE must recognize that Vauban desperately needs a kit that is at least comparable in effectiveness and ease-of-use to other Warframes. Please, for all of us, for Vauban, for the quality of future reworks, make noise until someone up there listens. Thank you for your consideration.

 

-Manatees

 

Sources:

https://warframe.fandom.com/wiki/Vauban#Abilities

https://warframe.fandom.com/wiki/Reservoirs

Yes! Thank you! Finally,someone has layed it all out,black on white. It was said in the beginning of her release,that she is a Vauban 2.0,that actually gets the job done.Mostly the fact that her Motes is the Minelayer he deserves..but never got.You can say she c*ckblocked him,or rather,DE has done it to him,this way.
Ofc,this proceeds with the recent "rework".Hope he gets the justice he deserves,and no more memes..

 

[Aeon94]

I'd love if Ember's Fireball turned into a fiery bird companion ( similar to Warlock's Arc Soul in Destiny ) and assisted Ember. Ember already has enough spam with Fire Blast and Inferno , giving her a duration ability will be beneficial.

Fire Hawk - [Duration Ability]

• Ember creates a fiery bird companion by her shoulder which shoots 3 fiery projectiles with 1 second cooldown for duration of 8 / 10 / 12 / 14 seconds. Projectiles seek enemies in 7 / 8 / 10 / 12 meters radius
  • Each projectile deals 75 / 100 / 125 / 150  Heat damage with 100% status chance. The projectile also inflicts 50 / 75 / 100 / 125  Heat damage in 2 meter area of effect around the target with a 50% status chance.
  • Both initial damage and the DoT get multiplied ( with a maximum of 8x ) by numbers of projectiles hit the same targets.
  • Fire Hawk can not have less than 5 seconds duration ( with negative duration mods ).
• Fire Hawk can be charged to double the number of projectiles.
  • A full charge takes 2.5 seconds.
  • Charge rate is affected by casting speed mods. The charge rate can be reduced to a minimum cap of 1.5 seconds.
• Synergy :
  • Each projectile hit increases Immolation's heat generation by 0.2% per sec.
  • When Immolation heat meter is maxed , projectile cooldown time is reduced to 0.5 sec.
  • Projectiles prioritize enemies who survived from Fire Blast and Inferno.
• Augment :
  • Fire Within ( Name changed ) - Hold to cast grant all allies within 15 meters an additional 100%  Heat damage to their attacks for 40 seconds.

Edited November 13, 2019 by Aeon94