(PC) Empyrean: Railjack General Feedback Megathread

[Talinthis]

5 hours ago, kyori said:

I have a 99, unless you are giving 100, else please ignore my account because I don't want a lower 90s which will be a nerf + troll from you guys.

*Also, my total avionic capacity should be 129 but in-game it is 128, 1 lesser than what it should be. Why?

plz read before commenting irrelevant things that are not happening...

[Alpha56]

I'm curious to see how my 83 100, 93 90 and 94 80 Vidar reactor will be rerolled.

I really hope you will make something about vidar reactor dropped before this change that were up to 90 avionics.

[Pendragon1951]

IMHO The design of the usage of the artillery is poorly designed. The way it should have been designed is the artillery function should be slaved to the pilot by a simple keybind to switch between using the nose guns and using the artillery somewhat like going between primary weapon and melee. It's impractical to have anyone switch from any area to the artillery spot especially considering how often it is used. The other plus is you can pilot the ship and get a more accurate shot, instead of lining up the shot then switch to the artillery seat only to see the crew ship has moved out of view.

[Borg1611]

6 hours ago, [DE]Rebecca said:

This is a broad post that touches on something that appears throughout the 40 pages here. Simplified sentiment:  'Avionics Capacity limitations are too punishing'. This week's Hotfix will speak specifically to that with global buffs for all Reactor types found in the wild. Any existing gear you have will simply be re-rolled for Avionics capacity, which will automatically be a buff in all cases (note: the Vidar III which has just compressed its top-end entirely to not have the 30-100 range, it's now 90-100, but it will not give you lower rolls if you had one in the 90-100 range before this change). 

The coming number changes:

- Lavan Reactor Mk I: Avionic Capacity now 20 to 30 (from 10 to 20)
- Lavan Reactor Mk II: Avionic Capacity now 50 to 60 (from 10 to 40)
- Lavan Reactor Mk III: Avionic Capacity now 80 to 90 (from 20 to 70)
- Vidar Reactor Mk I: Avionic Capacity now 30 to 40 (from 10 to 25)
- Vidar Reactor Mk II: Avionic Capacity now 60 to 70 (from 20 to 50)
- Vidar Reactor Mk III: Avionic Capacity now 90 to 100 (from 30 to 100)
- Zetki Reactor Mk I: Avionic Capacity now 10 to 20 (from 5 to 10)
- Zetki Reactor Mk II: Avionic Capacity now 40 to 50 (from 5 to 30)
- Zetki Reactor Mk III: Avionic Capacity now 70 to 80 (from 10 to 50)

Just dropping this note here so folks are prepared for this specific change as we work on more major fixes and changes! 

While this is a nice change (the overlap of stat rolls from different rarities was awful), when you narrow the RNG stat ranges that much you just have to start wondering why you're bothering to keep them at all on reactors. Like, if I have a 90 capacity reactor vs. a 100, is there a significant change at all in what I feel or experience in the mode? If I get a 100 after having a 90 am I going to feel that I got an upgrade? If not, what's the point of having the stat range at all anymore? Are there even enough battle or tactical avionics I'd care about that it would matter to me that I had to drop one? 

[Borg1611]

double posted for some reason, can't delete it myself

Edited January 15, 2020 by Borg1611

[DaeCatt]

6 hours ago, [DE]Rebecca said:

Any existing gear you have will simply be re-rolled for Avionics capacity, which will automatically be a buff in all cases (note: the Vidar III which has just compressed its top-end entirely to not have the 30-100 range, it's now 90-100, but it will not give you lower rolls if you had one in the 90-100 range before this change). 

I am slightly worried about what "re-roll" implies in this post. I thought (because of circumstances relating to the rounding errors) that a change like this would simply make the components "scale up". For example I have a 50 Avionics Capacity Zekti Reactor MK III reactor, shouldn't that be a guaranteed 80 Avionics Capacity with this change?

Similarly I got a 99 Avionics Capacity Vidar Reactor MK III. It is effectively a top 1.5% roll, but if it kept its 99 Avionics Capacity after this change it would be "demoted" to a top 10% roll.

I'm not going to complain if this leads to my Vidar Reactor MK III getting "demoted", I got very lucky with that roll after all. But it would be sad to see my "top tier" Zetki Reactor that I've been saving for if it got a buff get rolled down to a lower value.

I'm still excited about these changes, Railjack is a ton of fun!

[Ham_Grenabe]

That's a good question. Maybe they're just really committed to the new RNG thing. Also, 10 points at the high end of the scale isn't really that big a deal; but 10 points in the midrange reactors might be more significant.

 

[Ham_Grenabe]

4 minutes ago, DaeCatt said:

I am slightly worried about what "re-roll" implies in this post. I thought (because of circumstances relating to the rounding errors) that a change like this would simply make the components "scale up". For example I have a 50 Avionics Capacity Zekti Reactor MK III reactor, shouldn't that be a guaranteed 80 Avionics Capacity with this change?

Similarly I got a 99 Avionics Capacity Vidar Reactor MK III. It is effectively a top 1.5% roll, but if it kept its 99 Avionics Capacity after this change it would be "demoted" to a top 10% roll.

I'm not going to complain if this leads to my Vidar Reactor MK III getting "demoted", I got very lucky with that roll after all. But it would be sad to see my "top tier" Zetki Reactor that I've been saving for if it got a buff get rolled down to a lower value.

I'm still excited about these changes, Railjack is a ton of fun!

As far as I can tell, it means that if it falls into the new range, it'll be left alone. If it falls outside the new range, it'll be rerolled to be within that range. So your 50 cap Zetki should reroll to something between +70-80, but your Vidar should be unchanged. But no, they're not going to max out the rolls on anything. If it already qualifies, it doesn't change.

Edited January 15, 2020 by Ham_Grenabe

[Pendragon1951]

I said this before and i'll say it again this "The Division" style of multiples of the same item but with differing stats system is not Warframe. What it does is cause even more grind, and especially with such low chance of getting the item to begin with and then when you do get the item the stats end up being garbage, which requires you to grind away again in hopes of getting that item but with better stats.This type of system drove a lot of people away from The Division until they raised the drop chance so enormously high to make the only loot system they had work.

[sitfesz]

7 hours ago, [DE]Rebecca said:

This is a broad post that touches on something that appears throughout the 40 pages here. Simplified sentiment:  'Avionics Capacity limitations are too punishing'. This week's Hotfix will speak specifically to that with global buffs for all Reactor types found in the wild. Any existing gear you have will simply be re-rolled for Avionics capacity, which will automatically be a buff in all cases (note: the Vidar III which has just compressed its top-end entirely to not have the 30-100 range, it's now 90-100, but it will not give you lower rolls if you had one in the 90-100 range before this change). 

The coming number changes:

- Lavan Reactor Mk I: Avionic Capacity now 20 to 30 (from 10 to 20)
- Lavan Reactor Mk II: Avionic Capacity now 50 to 60 (from 10 to 40)
- Lavan Reactor Mk III: Avionic Capacity now 80 to 90 (from 20 to 70)
- Vidar Reactor Mk I: Avionic Capacity now 30 to 40 (from 10 to 25)
- Vidar Reactor Mk II: Avionic Capacity now 60 to 70 (from 20 to 50)
- Vidar Reactor Mk III: Avionic Capacity now 90 to 100 (from 30 to 100)
- Zetki Reactor Mk I: Avionic Capacity now 10 to 20 (from 5 to 10)
- Zetki Reactor Mk II: Avionic Capacity now 40 to 50 (from 5 to 30)
- Zetki Reactor Mk III: Avionic Capacity now 70 to 80 (from 10 to 50)

Just dropping this note here so folks are prepared for this specific change as we work on more major fixes and changes! 

OK

Any lessons learned?

[dEjAvU5566]

So what’s the point of leaving small RNG values here if you know it’s despite’s by players.

You just can’t discard it completely to commit its failure, don’t it?

[GPrime96]

6 hours ago, Jaclyn said:

Now how about making Tenebrous Ephemera a reward for purging 25(or 50) Sentient ships, like they were originally pitched to be a reward not a luck based dice roll

Would prefer the Ephemera to be this way tbh

[schilds]

1 hour ago, dEjAvU5566 said:

So what’s the point of leaving small RNG values here if you know it’s despite’s by players.

You just can’t discard it completely to commit its failure, don’t it?

The point is to try satisfy the needs/wants of different types of players.

 

One argument for rng stats is that it gives players - who would otherwise blast through a progression system very fast - something to work on. Some players *like* always having something to work on, however small. These are the "rewards and grind are content" players.

The issue is that rng comes with various drawbacks. It disconnects effort from reward. It provides no "light at the end of the tunnel", you can never tell how far away from your goal you are. It adds another dimension (luck, on top of skill, time, effort, etc) that increases variance in outcomes (making it harder to satisfy everyone). It increases the grind for some (unlucky) people while decreasing/not affecting the grind for (lucky) others. It does this irrespctive of whether they're casual or hardcore. Too much rng, too broad a range, and (roughly speaking, don't take the casual/hardcore labels too seriously):

1. Some hardcore players will be lucky, blast through a low level of grind, and be left with nothing to do.
2. Some casual players will be lucky and face a low level of grind that they can overcome.
3. Some hardcore players will be unlucky and face a massive grind, but one they (probably) have playtime to overcome.
4. Some casual players will be unlucky and face a massive grind that they have no hope of overcoming.

The point of keeping the rng while narrowing its range is really to try address that last group (4). Narrowing the range available and ensuring there are high returns early on with diminishing returns the more you play, means that whether casual players are lucky or unlucky, it won't take them too long to get something that's satisfactory and then move on. However, *some* (group 3) of the hardcore players aiming for that perfect roll will be kept going. Some (group 1) of course will be "lucky" and still end up bored with nothing to do - rng is rng, whose needs/wants are addressed is random :-P.

 

The other argument is that some players like to have gear that distinguishes them from other players. I disagree that rng stats personalise gear in any real sense - it's completely superficial - but I do agree that some players have a need to feel unique in a way that can't easily be copied. Rng limits copying, while narrowing its range will hopefully still scratch that itch for the players who need that itch scratched :-P.

Edited January 15, 2020 by schilds

[Loza03]

8 hours ago, [DE]Rebecca said:

This is a broad post that touches on something that appears throughout the 40 pages here. Simplified sentiment:  'Avionics Capacity limitations are too punishing'. This week's Hotfix will speak specifically to that with global buffs for all Reactor types found in the wild. Any existing gear you have will simply be re-rolled for Avionics capacity, which will automatically be a buff in all cases (note: the Vidar III which has just compressed its top-end entirely to not have the 30-100 range, it's now 90-100, but it will not give you lower rolls if you had one in the 90-100 range before this change). 

The coming number changes:

- Lavan Reactor Mk I: Avionic Capacity now 20 to 30 (from 10 to 20)
- Lavan Reactor Mk II: Avionic Capacity now 50 to 60 (from 10 to 40)
- Lavan Reactor Mk III: Avionic Capacity now 80 to 90 (from 20 to 70)
- Vidar Reactor Mk I: Avionic Capacity now 30 to 40 (from 10 to 25)
- Vidar Reactor Mk II: Avionic Capacity now 60 to 70 (from 20 to 50)
- Vidar Reactor Mk III: Avionic Capacity now 90 to 100 (from 30 to 100)
- Zetki Reactor Mk I: Avionic Capacity now 10 to 20 (from 5 to 10)
- Zetki Reactor Mk II: Avionic Capacity now 40 to 50 (from 5 to 30)
- Zetki Reactor Mk III: Avionic Capacity now 70 to 80 (from 10 to 50)

Just dropping this note here so folks are prepared for this specific change as we work on more major fixes and changes! 

That is... CONSIDERABLY better.

Thank you!

[schilds]

The last couple of perks on the intrinsic trees should be kept minor. That way sensible people can look at them and go "yep, no hurry", while people who can't help but want every little perk can have fun grinding them out. That's me, btw, I like having every little perk :-P.

The best perks should balance grind/reward in the middle somewhere.

People who want to "balance" the game with a huge grind and massive rewards for massive grind so that they can feel "elite" (because they know most people will never get there) can, quite frankly, be left to suffer. DE shouldn't be trying to satisfy them. They're insatiable. They're not happy unless they can measure themselves by the distance they are from other people. They can't be made happy without everyone else being made miserable.

Edited January 15, 2020 by schilds

[mikakor]

5 hours ago, Emperrier said:

They already said there's going to be a respec when Command launches, this isn't preventing you from maxing it on release, just from being 10/10/10/10/10 on day one

so, exactly preventing people from preparing themselves. that's artificial limitation, to force you to grind only once it comes. imagine if they would prevent you from building up forma, or farming ressources, until they release a new object that needs it. that's bullS#&$, right? Yes, that's bullS#&$. and that's scummy. people should be able to prepare themselves if they want to.

Also, who bets on absolutely no words on vacuum range, as DE as been proving to have serious problems with this? 😄

[schilds]

Having infinite inventory causes problems :-P.

[(PSN)ForerunnerKnight]

8 hours ago, [DE]Rebecca said:

Any existing gear you have will simply be re-rolled for Avionics capacity, which will automatically be a buff in all cases
 

Thank god this affects existing reactors, I knew it was a good idea to hang on to at least one of the vidar mk3 reactors i have gotten, i tried telling other people to do the same but some didn’t think any changes to reactors avionics would be retroactive so just scrapped the ones they got. 

My only regret is that i did scrap the other 2 i got so that means less chances at getting higher rolls when the hotfix hits but 1 is better than none.

[Aldain]

Holy cow, did DE...actually address the avionics issue?

Isn't that one of the signs of the apocalypse?

All jokes aside I feel this gif best shows how I feel hearing that:

...Now maybe we can focus on the economy and make the Vacuum range even bigger?

[Corvenir]

About 4 weeks too late for the reactor changes, why did it require community outrage to get this resolved? Maybe do better, without everyone having grab pitchforks and complain every other post.

All those scrapped Vidar MK3 reactors with less than 20 Avionics, sigh I won't be playing that much at all, too many games coming out in 2020.

[Deepak_M]

Same could be said for a warframe when you get at first with either flawed mods or you dont have specific mods and then go fight in mars mission as by that time you have collected enough mods and experince to deal mars enemies. similar goes for railjack at the very beginning. The Ship is at it s current state is fine on its own. yes more tweaks to its Stats are very welcomed but so far rail jack is not that bad and on-board repair concern is Ok as well, due to poor network reception at my side i am not being able to play in co-op with other player so i also player this rail jack, completed the veil with currently at 8888 in the intrinsic. co-op makes the rail jack stuff a bit divided in a sense that each player will house their own set of task and that's all good. as for solo the task of keeping the ship alive with as minimal damage as possible becomes the sole priority of pilot and that guy also has to be Engineer and boarder to crew ship as well. try this if you can keeping all the frustration aside for once. do a Veil proxima mission in solo, at least for me until the Raids are being revived, this will be the Experimental endgame for me right now.

[Deepak_M]

18 hours ago, kyori said:

Which the Elite version of Earth enemies are still not in the game, there is only 1 other enemy that drop Battle Stations, which is the Elite Gyre Taktis.

In my previous few mission in Vand Clusters, I have encountered only 1-3 Elite Gyre Taktis, and this enemy has an insane drop rate for Battle Stations. 

Don't you think that is unreasonable for the said enemy to spawn so few? Even the Outriders spawned more than it.

This is very true not a single elite enemy present on earth the only i found till now is an Elite Kosma outrider. other than that there is no other elite kosma units present on earth as of now. Also for saturn if you are farming specially for zetki hyperstrike, do this trick, do not go to dojo back after completing a mission, play the two nodes Kasio's rest and vand cluster over and over. for me in solo it took me 5 or so hours to get one zetki hyperstrike as of now. and for battle station i guess you have to do the same as well.even the recent improved drop chance if not helping. the common drops are dropping way too much for no reason.

[Emperrier]

1 hour ago, mikakor said:

so, exactly preventing people from preparing themselves. that's artificial limitation, to force you to grind only once it comes. imagine if they would prevent you from building up forma, or farming ressources, until they release a new object that needs it. that's bullS#&$, right? Yes, that's bullS#&$. and that's scummy. people should be able to prepare themselves if they want to

DE does this all the time by adding new resources.

[GreyEnneract]

10 hours ago, [DE]Rebecca said:

This is a broad post that touches on something that appears throughout the 40 pages here. Simplified sentiment:  'Avionics Capacity limitations are too punishing'. This week's Hotfix will speak specifically to that with global buffs for all Reactor types found in the wild. Any existing gear you have will simply be re-rolled for Avionics capacity, which will automatically be a buff in all cases (note: the Vidar III which has just compressed its top-end entirely to not have the 30-100 range, it's now 90-100, but it will not give you lower rolls if you had one in the 90-100 range before this change). 

The coming number changes:

- Lavan Reactor Mk I: Avionic Capacity now 20 to 30 (from 10 to 20)
- Lavan Reactor Mk II: Avionic Capacity now 50 to 60 (from 10 to 40)
- Lavan Reactor Mk III: Avionic Capacity now 80 to 90 (from 20 to 70)
- Vidar Reactor Mk I: Avionic Capacity now 30 to 40 (from 10 to 25)
- Vidar Reactor Mk II: Avionic Capacity now 60 to 70 (from 20 to 50)
- Vidar Reactor Mk III: Avionic Capacity now 90 to 100 (from 30 to 100)
- Zetki Reactor Mk I: Avionic Capacity now 10 to 20 (from 5 to 10)
- Zetki Reactor Mk II: Avionic Capacity now 40 to 50 (from 5 to 30)
- Zetki Reactor Mk III: Avionic Capacity now 70 to 80 (from 10 to 50)

Just dropping this note here so folks are prepared for this specific change as we work on more major fixes and changes! 

Just as a heads up, there's not enough avionic capacity to fill up your Railjack even with a perfect 100.
A fully loaded Railjack would need ~140 av capacity on its reactor, and even being generous by not running any tacticals it still requires around 110.
Honestly, avionic capacity shouldn't be tied to parts at all. It's too important and ensures that Zetki/Lavan will never be viable.
It would make more sense, and be more player friendly, if reactors balanced between flux capacity and flux efficiency/regeneration instead of having avionics capacity.
 

[NoMoreFAIL]

I contacted support and got them to undo my  recent mistake of scraping 3x Mk3 Vidar reactors. They did it in a few hours which was a pleasant surprise.

I suggest anyone who has done this to do the same while they still can.

Now we wait for the rerolls.

Edited January 15, 2020 by NoMoreFAIL