Empyrean and the decline of Warframe

[SneakyErvin]

1 hour ago, Rasdan said:

In the past i played mostly Korean MMORPGs. Ragnarok Online, RF Online, Seal Online, Eden Eternal. Are those count? The only difference i found on past online game and this one, at least the devs has communication over it.

The you've obviously experienced grinds far beyond WF, since WF is even light on the grind compared to the western market. Yet you somehow manage to say the WF RNG is extreme. How the heck did you manage to enjoy Korean MMOs in that case? Do you enjoy self torture?

[Goodwill]

I think people are missing OPs points. He's not saying that Warframe deserves a free pass or is immune to criticism because of x or y. He is saying that people are being unusually harsh in their criticisms and that DE, while deserving criticism (as anyone else) probably do not deserve the hate they get on a regular basis.

I kinda agree but you do need to keep in mind the haters (people who hate for the sake of hating and offer no productive feedback) are a vocal minority. A lot of the criticisms and feedbacks are from reasonable players with very valid points to make. But we do tend take notice of tantrums much more than thought-out, articulated feedback.

[Tenno76856]

People will whinge and complain (happens on all forums in general). For a free game i love it. And yes people forget it isnt a huge team they have. And, with the huge player base it can be difficult. You cant keep everyone happy. Vocal minority anyone? . Section of playerbase is actually quite impatient....

[Mikaer88]

1 hour ago, aligatorno said:

Also 310 employeed is probably more than the vast majority of dev studios have. From Software for example only have 283 and they pump out amazing and highly detailed games constantly. That is because they are focused and have a clear plan, DE doesn't either. 

Probably because Hidetaka Miyazaki is a genius and a visionary. FromSoftware is on another level compare to any western developers.

[George_PPS]

It’s not just a free to play game. We invest our time and efforts in it. Many players like me also pay to play and pay to enjoy this game more. There is no such thing as truly free to play. You can argue that it’s free to play if you do not play a dime at all, and then you shouldn’t even be complaining that why some others are complaining because it’s truly free to play for you. 

Warframe has gone through rounds and rounds of nerfing and taking away some fun factors in each and every patches and updates since 2018. That’s the main reason why players complain or just quit entirely. 

[PookieNumnums]

Its not measley. Youre measly.

[(PSN)robotwars7]

as always, it comes down to whether or not Criticism is constructive: nobody should be abused, but they should be informed when they have made a mistake that may affect others, so that they might rectify it. every community has it's outspoken criers and it's silent majority, personally I think there are some improvements that could be made in 2020, and that Duviri and The New War updates will be enough in terms of major content for 2020. maybe throw in the next Nightwave or Corpus Liches or whatever in the end, but focus mostly on making Railjack and other parts of the game what it is supposed to be according to the devs and the players.

the other problem is that our creative vision does not always align with that of DEs. everything we have is the result of a compromise between what DE want and what we want as a community. most of the Time DE know better as they are the devs, but not 100% of the time. and for that, they sometimes need our feedback. so it's our responsibility as a community to be civil and respectful, while informing DE of what we like and dislike about Warframe.

but this is the internet, where it's fun to screech profanity from behind the anonymity of a keyboard as well, so *shrugs*.

[Goodwill]

1 hour ago, George_PPS said:

Warframe has gone through rounds and rounds of nerfing and taking away some fun factors in each and every patches and updates since Update 17 back in 2015.

Fixed.

 

Edited December 20, 2019 by Goodwill

[Yamazuki]

The game being "free" to play is 100% irrelevant. They don't work for free, they are paid to do a job, anyone that has ever been paid for a job has always had expectations put upon them. 

This is before taking into account that "free" to play games are only free if you consider your time to be worth nothing. There's a reason why games are designed to be grindy, or with annoying things like inventory limits where the time savers and solutions are sold, they know enough people consider their time valuable and would just pay to skip it all.

[32768]

People say all those things because they are frustrated, they are frustrated because Warframe made them frustrated. How to stop people saying all those mean things? I don't know, maybe not make them frustrated?

DE has a large credit of goodwill, but this credit isn't infinite. We all want Warframe to succeed of course, but as consumers, there is only so much we can do. DE is in control of Warframe and DE creates everything surrounding Warframe.

[Test-995]

I bought PA lately, this game is not F2P anymore!

[HappyPlecostomus]

3 hours ago, Viges said:

They don't even bother to host their own servers, that's how much they want to save on money. Somehow GGG can afford dedicated servers with small team and all that, but not DE while making much more money.

I will have what they are doing now, P2P instead of a dedicated server thank you very much. I have very bad connection in my area and Warframe is a game that I do not need to worry about disconnecting halfway while solo (Even playing offline for a while until I get my internet back up). And they are clever for not needing to maintain a dedicated server due to its cost. I can play with low ping with my nearby friends as well.

Me happy, DE happy. 

[--DSP--Jetstream]

4 hours ago, Rasdan said:

Now, how do you expect a game development team of 310 people, able to please the needs 67k worth of active players? Me personally have been very tolerant with the mistakes they made.

Yeah you just play for how long exactly? the thing is they consistently repeat their mistakes every update and yes I can tolerate but when it happen everytime just look how lich system and empyrean look so unfinished and yet and people like you always say "its ok small indie developer" is why they can just release broken and unfinished updates everytime. And no de is no longer a small indie dev since plains of eidolon.

[CuChulainnWD]

3 hours ago, Mavor said:

Well, like anything in life - some folks enjoy some things and others dont. For every person that hates Liches or Railjack, theres a person who likes them. Your grind may not be my grind and vice versa.

Warframes core hasn't changed since the beginning - repeat content segments for loot drops to construct equipment so you can repeat content segments for loot drops to construct equipment so you can...

Anyone who has played WF for more than a day knows this - expecting the core gameplay loop to change significantly at this point, is simply unrealistic. People who complain about it are just beating their heads against the wall. Warframe is the tiger and grinding for loot is its stripes.

Indeed, but we do not know how many people do like or do not like said content. I may not have started playing Warframe around the same time as you, but I do qualify for the time when DE was still a small and humble company that actually listened to its community and was transparent. I remember the times when Warframes were complete and included in a Quest line. There is no more core game play loop to be recognised. DE has slap dashed, coubled and glued together so many game play systems and mechanics, it is barely recognisable from the game it once was. One thing we do know is that there has been a substantial rise in the number of "Whiners" critising the game for the last year or so. Since Old Blood that has risen even more so.  I wonder why that is?

To dismiss legitimate criticism as whining can just as easily be dismissed by those same people making the legitimate gripe.  At least you did not dismiss them with the "It's free to play" insult. I would have said then you can keep your mouth shut, as I pay for this game as do many others that are getting tired of being ripped off lately. We are giving DE the benefit of the doubt to at least respect their community and their feed back before we say," Foxtrot Uniform Charlie Kilo IT! We are done", and walk away. Many old Vets are doing that, and they are taking their money away with them. If enough people do that, then DE is left with nothing, but begging for scraps from the table, as in hoping enough people will buy their cosmetics and boosters to keep them afloat.

I remember a DE that "Promised" on devstreams, several in fact, that they would "Reduce" grind. Since October 2017, and perhaps a wee bit before that time, DE has gone out of its way to increase grind. Increasing grind in fact not because it is enjoyable, or replayable, it is because they are out of ideas on how to make enjoyable and replayable content.  Anet for me at least knows how to make enjoyable and repeatable content. Bungie for many seems to get the formula right. DE takes ideas from a plethora of games, yet still manages to bungle the balance between enjoyable content, and grind. The whole reason 99% (Yes it is a guess) of people get involved in Warframe was its core game loop of original combat and mobillity, and eventually their awesome story line in quests.

So please, don't kid yourself or be so quick to dismiss people criticising the game because you think they are whiners. How about you appreciate the fact that they may have a legitimate critique that DE needs to listen to. It might end up improving your game enjoyment too.

[(PSN)thowed]

Destiny 2 is not improving unless you like microtransactions and reused content.  Just thought I'd point that out.

[(XBOX)XGN DrFeelGood]

7 hours ago, Rasdan said:

I have played this game for a year (i joined when fortuna update arrives), yet i enjoy the experience.

In my opinion, this game has exceed expectations for a measly Free to Play. There are a few times i join the forums to discuss or giving feedback for the devs. Yet one thing hasn't changed. That is how some players put a high (perhaps too high) bar of expectations on this game.

 

For the past few months of playing, there are many terms that are very close with Warframe, with these three i believe stands out the most.

1. Bugframe
2. [DE]Layed
3. Content Drought

 

Although i know this is a joke (or a meme) most of the time, but deep inside i just can't stand how some players are being too hard on DE. please don't r/woooosh me...

 

Remember, this is a Free To Play game, developed by a not-so-big video game developer with 310 employees (thanks Wikipedia).

This is compared to Ubisoft Montreal, the biggest game development studio around 3.5k employees.... Okay, i think that is too big of a comparison, let me rephrase that.

This is compared to Bioware, an EA subsidiary that created a failure game Anthem, it has around 800 employees. The game is NOT free to play, and still has microtransactions.

Or Bungie, developer of Destiny 2 who most players (i came across) happen to compare Warframe with. It has around 600 employees. The game is improving (thanks for nothing Activision) and somehow became a serious competitor for Warframe.

Now, how do you expect a game development team of 310 people, able to please the needs 67k worth of active players? Me personally have been very tolerant with the mistakes they made.

 

Whenever i see players complain, I know you have your reasons. You love and care for this game. You want this game to improve. You also want DE to improve.

But when it comes to harsh complaints, that is taking way too far.

 

This year, 2019. DE has:

1. Released 4 new frames and 4 new prime accesses,
2. Two remasters (Jupiter and PoE),
3. System changes (Alerts into Nightwave WITH storytelling)
4. Three mini bosses (Exploiter Orb, Wolf of Saturn Six, Zealoid Prelate)
5. Two new game mode (Disruption, Kuva liches),
6. Two new events (Disruption event, Halloween Event), 1 returning event (Operation Plague Star),
7. One BIG update (Empyrean).

and probably more that i haven't mentioned (or forgot, sorry)...

 

For a Free 2 Play game, that is a hell of an achievement. With the help of kind players who supports the devs through buying merchandises, buy tennogen, buy plats, including buying the Tennocon packs.

 

Does that mean i have none to complain? Of course not. For one, I HATE (crank it to eleven) the many layers of RNG in Kuva Lich mode. Many feedbacks and complaints are posted in the forums, as if the devs don't care. The devstream stated that this problem is their least priority. For now, i ignore the game mode until they fix it. I have faith they will fix this.

 

As far as i observe the devs reaction, there are 2 ways to make them act on a problem. Either you howl as hard and long as you can (as it happens on Vauban, i love the train frame), or you just ignore it until they realized they made a mistake.

 

Let's talk about Railjack-Empyrean. The complaint i depise most right now is when players screaming "Oh no, this game became a pay to win!". Closest example is the existence of Rush Repair Drone. This Empyrean mode was one week old and you guys started to think that DE has become EA-Activision. In the same week they rebalance some parts of the grind and make it at least more accessible. Maybe you guys are being so impatient as if you wanted to speedrun a game from Level 0 to 100 in one night.

Seriously, who have gotten all MK III parts before the MK III Sigma parts has been researched in your dojo? I do. Still, feels good to see that MR 28 with "Completed 549/549" in your profile, yes? Yea, i want that too, i just don't feel like farming kuva weapons.

 

Please don't put them on the same shoes as that game publisher who requires their player to farm for 40 hours straight to get Darth Vader. I believe Digital Extremes not that low, yet. I hope that day will never come.

 

To be honest, it's kinda funny when my veteran friends returned to Warframe and said "Whoa, this game changed so much", while some of you complains "OMG Content drought..!!!11 Time to leave Warframe!". Maybe you played Warframe too much, try something else for a change and return later. If there are some problems, share your feedback and wait patiently. They will either fix it or make it even better.

 

TL;DR Don't complain too early, and have faith that DE will change it. As far as i know, DE are one of the devs that are really down to earth, and they listen to their players. It's just, they cannot fulfill the needs of 67k active players. Give your feedbacks and wait patiently. Complaing won't change anything. Play something else and return, that way you'll appreciate the improvements the devs gave for this game.

 

This is just a whim from me whenever i read the forums. I do regret for not knowing this game in 2013, and buy the founders pack.... Thanks founders for saving this great game.

The nerfs, Grendel and Guass, then the r n g to Railkack deserves the college grade critique it’s getting. This isn’t boarding school gaming like cod. This is critical thinking from the senior and college level. Basically speaking, it’s an adult game. It has it’s rating for a reason.

 

   For your counter argument it was supported up until harrow and the later WarFrames sunk the game into a grind fest that isn’t enjoyable anymore.

[Herisen_Version1.0]

I hate the RNG. 

Edited December 20, 2019 by Herisen_Version1.0
sry mistake

[nslay]

8 hours ago, Jjackal said:

Univac

Yeah, they should have never doubled down on supporting ancient Univac computer systems.

I know what you meant, but I had to search the Internet. What a terrible name for 'universal vacuum'.

[844448]

7 hours ago, aligatorno said:

Also 310 employeed is probably more than the vast majority of dev studios have. From Software for example only have 283 and they pump out amazing and highly detailed games constantly. That is because they are focused and have a clear plan, DE doesn't either. 

Also, do people on From Software keep getting demands from people breathing on their neck and nagging them from forum thread to YouTube videos about "no content" and demand for "sustainable content"?

We have that sustainable content people keep asking which basically a festival of RNG for the best stats and now we get complaints for RNG they keep asking before? This community can be very bipolar very often

[Kerberos-3]

44 minutes ago, (XB1)XGN DrFeelGood said:

The nerfs, Grendel and Guass, then the r n g to Railkack deserves the college grade critique it’s getting. This isn’t boarding school gaming like cod. This is critical thinking from the senior and college level. Basically speaking, it’s an adult game. It has it’s rating for a reason.

 

   For your counter argument it was supported up until harrow and the later WarFrames sunk the game into a grind fest that isn’t enjoyable anymore.

However, to play devil's advocate with regard for some of the later Frames, it is rather easy to chalk up their difficult grind with a community that just cannot be satisfied with anything. Quests take time to make, but the vocal part of the community is voracious and wants content immediately, and cry content drought when it doesn't come. Locking Frames behind difficult grind to buy to time for said new content results in them crying about said grind. The most vocal parts of the community, the one DE sees the most, are the ones that complain about anything and everything.

[844448]

Well OP, being free to play doesn't mean they can go free from complaints but this is how the community going, a demanding and sometimes bipolar community

DE made the grind to be one and done and people complain "content drought" because they refuse to play after chasing the new things (really, what's wrong with visiting earth again after you got things like Gauss, etc? Does someone close to you dies or gets killed if you do that?) and they want sustainable content

Now we have it, in railjack and kuva weapons and people complain it's too much grinding

Really, I haven't seen a free pve game that has sustainable content that doesn't involve RNG and massive grind yet so bring me an example for that

Also,

8 hours ago, Rasdan said:

Or Bungie, developer of Destiny 2 who most players (i came across) happen to compare Warframe with. It has around 600 employees. The game is improving (thanks for nothing Activision) and somehow became a serious competitor for Warframe.

Improving my ass, they have DLC and season pass on top of that now so let's see if that season of dawn is available for you if you don't pay for the pass since vex offensive is not available if you don't buy shadowkeep that has the season pass bundled with it

Gameplay itself is still doing strikes, raids or whatever reskinned activities in it

[Fleuria]

In my opinion, there's several mechanics here:

(1) People who want to complain have [relatively speaking] extremely loud voices, because the people enjoying playing the game would rather play the game. (There's something near or over 50000 people playing the game at any time, and probably 500+ people who complain loudly.)

(2) The game has some rough edges and things that need fixed. Some of them feel like the sort of thing that you get when new coders start in and older ones move on.

(3) Testing is hard -- often things seem fine from one perspective, but then other things combine in strange and unanticipated ways.

(4) Everyone has their own ideas of how things to be.

(5) It's a game, and that means it has game-type limitations.

There's probably other things going on also?

[Hypernaut1]

People can whine all they want, there really is no better game in the genre or developers. DE knows this. I'm sure they ignore GD for the most part anyway. 

[844448]

6 hours ago, Mikaer88 said:

Probably because Hidetaka Miyazaki is a genius and a visionary. FromSoftware is on another level compare to any western developers.

Edited December 20, 2019 by 844448
Can't resist the urge to put this meme as an Asian

[lukasystem]

The new updates suck on many points and are objectively bad.

Now can they fix it? of course, are they doing it? at a certain pace, hotel? Trivago.