Dev Workshop: Healing Defendable Targets

[Redfeather75]

This is AMAZING news! 😵

I think it would be very impactful and interesting in the long run if the numbers were scalable based on the enemy spawn level range.

 

 

[Okami_Amaterasu]

28 minutes ago, Revanx said:

  

Ah....... rip

Looks like I'm switching to Naramon then.

[PETI258]

At lest do it the right way this time.

For example in a low tear mission the 500 health is good and it should be the minimum but with the scaling MD/Def targets it should represent like a 10% heal over that 5 sec.

[(NSW)Kadet]

Glad to see some consistency applied toward whats heal-able and whats not.  I never understood why things like lures could be blessed, but not excavators, when they are both machines.

[AlphaPHENIX]

57 minutes ago, [DE]Rebecca said:

Vazarin - Protective Dash

5 seconds invulnerability

60% Heal over 5 seconds
_

No invulnerability

Heal for 500 over 5 seconds, can’t stack
_

Works at full effect

So no more clutch saves on Excavators for me, got it.

Ya I will just be here, joining the ''user hasn't logged on in triple digit number of days'' club, good night.

[Diavoros]

Things were this way for months or years and all it took for you guys to think that they were "overpowered" was taking the time to play your own game which you surely are with the current pandemic situation 🙄
Players have always found a way or ways to trivialize challenge, to cheese the game, and just now you are becoming aware of the workings for such intended features?
I dread what other "fixes" come in light of your discoveries about how the game is actually being played.

[Nemesis]

For now these numbers are alright for low levels but since they're not percentages they will not work very well for high level defense targets that do scale with level such as arbitration, defense, excavation and mobile defense (Think sortie 3). A low percentage would be more appropriate? Though that would have negligible impact on the targets that don't scale such as the kuva harverster (change this) if they heal 20hp/s. A minimum hp/s maybe?

[xRufus7x]

So this seems interesting. I have one question though, how will this be relayed to players in game when they work differently from the way the ability normally works?

I can't help but think that these abilities should follow their default behaviors for consistency and simplicity and that abilities like Bless and Mend should get a deeper look.

Also, can't help but  notice that Well of Life isn't on the list. Even you guys have forgotten it.

[-AncientWarrior-]

Oh dear, DE again not really thinking how the game works, scaling is part of this game, flat heals do crap all at higher levels.  How you came to flat rate is mind boggling.  Crazy stuff from Devs again.. the idea is good but the implementation is just like someone else, who doesnt know the game, has made the final decision.  Still these days what DE does actually doesnt ever surprise me.

[Gene_Freak]

I appreciate all the recent attempts to bring consistency to the logic of the game. The biggest issue I can see here is the fixed healing numbers - the types of defensive objective we're talking about here all have scaling health, many comfortably reaching five digit values. Having the healing rates be tied to a flat value nearly across the board means that these changes aren't going to make enough of a difference in higher level play, and higher level play is the only place where healing objectives actually matters.

[fuzzySoup]

With all due respect, is this really the most important thing to be working on for Warframe?!  I find it hard to believe that nerfing defense target healing a critical priority.

[TavisNamara]

I'd appreciate if you didn't go so hard against Vazarin. The objective healing is one of very few reasons I still keep Vazarin as my main. Sure it'll still be great for personal and ally survivability, but that is a VIOLENT nerf you're doing as written. 100/s and no invuln makes it go from one of the best high-level options on defense to completely insignificant, especially as it has to be constantly focused and re-upped while in operator mode, meaning you can do almost nothing else but focus on the healing if you want it to work. I'm not saying that it should remain as it was, but at least give it, say... 20% over 5 seconds, no invuln, or 100/s+invuln. Give it SOMETHING to be an advantage and not just... Well... Useless.

An Oberon, after this change, would be able to match half a Vazarin's healing while providing burst heals and SO much more as well as using primary weapons and all of the other primary abilities of Oberon and Frame mode, while a Vazarin, who specs specifically to protect and defend, as many of us have, will end up doing nothing but dashing back and forth just to keep up.

[MvgTarget]

Is the Railjack itself considered a defense objective?

[PurpleNyxPrime]

all the flat 500 over 5s seems awful considering defense target health scaling but this is still a huge step in the right direction if those 500's could be changes to a % like 3-5% max health that would be great

[Kamachi]

This is utterly ridiculous. In any situation that you would need to actually heal a defense object these microscopic flat values will make absolutely ZERO difference. 

I honestly hope you will take on board what players are saying in regards to these proposed changes because if you don't it'll just lead to another wave of players quitting or taking extended breaks from the game. 

You guys continually prove to the player base that you have absolutely no idea about how this game is played, especially at the higher levels.

The proposed Vazarin change is mind-blowing, from overpowered to completely and utterly useless, you might aswell just remove it from the game.

 

[Eiddew]

Honestly I'm quite happy with this, it's a good change and I think is healthy for the game. Looks like all this time at home has allowed for fixes and adjustments after all! If flavor is a reasonable thing to use to balance, maybe have Blood Altar only affect living targets? So things like defense coffins and operatives, but not Mobile Defense consoles or OpLinks.

However, lolvazarin.

[AlphaPHENIX]

...

[WarriorSoundwave]

I like that there are a lot of choices for healing abilities but they are all flat numbers. Defense targets do scale DE. 500hp/5s is nothing to a defense objective with 100k health being shot at by enemies that do thousands of damage.

The Vazarin nerf hurts the most though. At the very least that one MUST be a percentage. 

[Madway7]

30 minutes ago, Gendalph said:

How would this affect Eidolon hunting? Right now, Trinity is used there to keep lures alive, and this change would make Tridolon PUGs hell.

I'm assuming the lures are not included in this since they can currently be healed by them while the notes say that the healing cap and  DR cap are for objectives in which it currently doesn't do anything.

[NekroArts]

3 minutes ago, Madway7 said:

I'm assuming the lures are not included in this since they can currently be healed by them while the notes say that the healing cap and  DR cap are for objectives in which it currently doesn't do anything.

I hoping for this a lot. Those lures are the ones that are hard to consistently protect relative to all the other things. 

[Hackfield]

hace 1 hora, [DE]Rebecca dijo:

 

Hildryn - Haven	500 Max Shields 80% faster Shield recharge	Fine as is, will inherit the Normal effect behaviour.	On live does nothing

 

Will Haven provide Shield-gating to defense objectives?

 

If not, can at least provide it to Sentinels/companions?

 

 

[MunsuLight]

I think your team is missing the point at all with all these changes.. We dont want your team to rewrite the damn code and change the value of skills.. We just want consistencies all over the board.  

I dont think that burst healing a la Equinox trin, etc should heal the damn thing when it wasnt specified at first .. Giving DR seems alright

Problem is the OVERNERF for Vazarin Dash.. Do you really want no one playing with operator at all , because with Lockdown nerf combined to that, you are making Operator mostly usable only for the zenurik energy dash..  You are removing everything interesting about them.. Like when you did remove the Void Stalker buff to AMPS and to Guns..  With all these examples of nerfs you are just removing way to play the game DIFFERENTLY..  I know Vazarin dash is kinda OP, but you are just killing it for people that are doing super long missions . I wouldnt personnaly mind that nerf, but stop axing some fun for these peoples

i think you also Have other more important thing to do than changing these kind of things..  Focus on the foundation first and after you can change the brick little by little.. You dont build a house (game) by adding more and more bricks until it crumble because the foundation are not solid enough

[Urlan]

Vazarin heal doesn't work on oplinks in live, while excavators yeah, it heals without making them invulnerable, defense missions it can make them invulnerable while healing so perhaps it is currently working differently in Dev? I would feel that Vazarin focus would need some more benefits to the existing other nodes since the dash right now is the main function with the shadow node's expanding defense field being quite unreliable while the Tenno hold charge attack shield drains energy for hits, and enemies tend to shoot around you at targets while often shooting your Tenno's feet. All of the healing magus seem like they were taken from Vazarin's school anyway, how about some form of them attached?

[Rude_Zuud]

Even if DE was to change the flat heal/time to a % base, that doesn't help the issues with the objectives eventually just getting 1-shot. If they don't want players feeling forced into cheesing every aspect of the game, maybe have the game not cheese the player into losing. Objectives simply don't have the survivability they need to handle the onslaught a warframe can handle, and they won't 50 times over if this worthless update comes out. What we need instead is a repeat of Disruption, honestly, with specialized enemies capable of actually dealing damage to, or outright destroying, defense points that the player HAS to deal with while being suppressed by the trash and infantry defending the specialist doing its thing. Railjack has something like this as well, with the saboteurs planting bombs around the railjack if they aren't taken care of (although they usually are taken out before that becomes an issue, but it's the idea that counts). DE could give nullifiers armor-ignoring weaponry that deals True damage or Grineer with a new guided rocket launcher using the new Arm Cannon weapon type that deals catastrophic levels of True damage that CAN NOT be ignored without significant risk of mission failure. Ordis could announce spotting particularly dangerous weaponry incoming and pointing a market at the target. They've already shown us how much base survivability they're willing to give to enemies with units like Bursas having both shields and alloy armor and Grineer Crewship Captains having extremely high level 1 armor.

[Caliboom]

Vazarin doesn't need a nerf, it's fine as it is.