Do you think the nail is in the coffin?

[(PSN)GEN-Son_17]

7 hours ago, BlueMartian said:

I don't know. Are we allowed to comment without it being an "insult to DE"?

You serious? That's usually the norm. The pattern is:

A) insult DE on the update and question their jobs.

B) insult DE's ability to keep the game alive.

C) Watch YouTubers bash DE with half of them never actually playing the game.

D) find out that people actually like the updates after the usual bashers finish complaining.

E) Poster asks if they can post something "negative or constructive" about that game without it being considered an "insult to DE".

F) Repeat after next update.

Edited April 9, 2020 by (PS4)GEN-Son_17
Grammar error

[(PSN)robotwars7]

I think people are being extremely overdramatic, even by forum standards, which is saying something. warframe has had ups and downs before. anyone remember Specters of The Rail? yeah... then what came after? The Second Dream, one of the greatest and most loved updates in the game and a massive high point that wouldn't be truly repeated until Plains of Eidolon. people seem to think it's the beginning of the end, when really we've had a few updates that were sub-par, and wiull take time to be fixed completely.

could DE do better? certainly, and they should listen to the Community more, hard as it is to filter constructive critiscism form the infernal screeching of "muh content drought" and "omg the game is dying DE suck". saying that the game is on it's way out though is a ridiculous stretch: warframe will be around for years to come, the question is will YOU, reading this, still be around? will I even? nobody knows. 

[Helch0rn]

12 hours ago, VitalAmprex said:

Honestly, with the release of scarlet spear in its poor state, the poor reception of pitches, the less than stellar release of railjack... do you think DE could reverse the course of Warframe this year?

 

What would YOU ask them to do, or what would you do first to fix Warframe.

 

I agree that warframe revised was a step in the right direction. 

doom and gloom about the games impending demise are as old as the start of the game.

your thread is not the first one and I guarantee you it won't be the last.

as for the "poor" reception of SS. I see a lot of busy flotillas for an event that is hated "so much"

[(PSN)SolarPhantom82]

7 minutes ago, Helch0rn said:

doom and gloom about the games impending demise are as old as the start of the game.

your thread is not the first one and I guarantee you it won't be the last.

as for the "poor" reception of SS. I see a lot of busy flotillas for an event that is hated "so much"

But poeple are grinding because they have too.  Not because they want too. . To top up their arcines...

[vegetosayajin]

Nail in the coffin for older players/vets maybe.

For the casuals, new players, non-min-maxers etc. the game is better then ever before.

[SneakyErvin]

I'm not really seeing the issue with Scarlet Spear. Yes it was buggy, but outside of that it is an event in the veins of other events, just with far better rewards.

They've all been repetative, they've all been centered around doing the same thing, the grind has been more or less. I think Scarlet Spear actually was an improvement to other events since there are two different things we can actually do with slightly different gameplay.

And the most fun thing is, I said in a thread regarding the bugged kill codes that there is a big chance parts of it comes from people not actually planting their satellite before heading into the Murex. And what was in the notes of the latest patch? Exactly that as part of the "issue" to non-recieved codes, so they even had to go and "bug fix" for drunk, stoned, sleeping or stupid players aswell. So it is kinda funny when people say DE doesnt care about bug fixing when they even go and implement safeguards for straight up player errors that they could have just ignored. Guess the issue was so common that it was easier to "fix" it than have to take care of floods of false reports that are just rooted in player errors.

[Kaotyke]

53 minutes ago, (PS4)SolarPhantom82 said:

But poeple are grinding because they have too.  Not because they want too. . To top up their arcines...

What kinda of insane logic is this... That logic can be used for ANYTHING in this game if you want something. 

Just change your "arcines" for a certain prime part, Warframe part, change circumstances to Plague Star for Formas, Eidolons for Arcanes...

If people do not want to they won't do it. This is not a job. They have the option here. Want an example? I only got Ivara Prime and Baza Prime last week, because I didn't want to grind at the time, but when I wanted, I went and got them. Still don't have Aksomati Prime, I don't see the point of having it now, but I might want to have it in the future. Same with the new Primes. They are out there, I will grind in this looter game when I feel like it.

Hell, I don't even have the Lato Vandal because I don't find ESO to be very fun! 

[(PSN)SolarPhantom82]

4 minutes ago, Kaotyke said:

What kinda of insane logic is this... That logic can be used for ANYTHING in this game if you want something. 

Just change your "arcines" for a certain prime part, Warframe part, change circumstances to Plague Star for Formas, Eidolons for Arcanes...

If people do not want to they won't do it. This is not a job. They have the option here. Want an example? I only got Ivara Prime and Baza Prime last week, because I didn't want to grind at the time, but when I wanted, I went and got them. Still don't have Aksomati Prime, I don't see the point of having it now, but I might want to have it in the future. Same with the new Primes. They are out there, I will grind in this looter game when I feel like it.

Hell, I don't even have the Lato Vandal because I don't find ESO to be very fun! 

Ok if you don't like my logic. Here are some facts.   Event numbers are down 18000 players sense it started on steam. .  Players that have gotten want they want have left.  Thats not a shot at the event.   This event has done better numbers then railjack. ... which says more about railjack. ...

[Kaotyke]

12 minutes ago, (PS4)SolarPhantom82 said:

Ok if you don't like my logic. Here are some facts.   Event numbers are down 18000 players sense it started on steam. .  Players that have gotten want they want have left.  Thats not a shot at the event.   This event has done better numbers then railjack. ... which says more about railjack. ...

No. Your logic makes no sense. Period.

Every event had grind, every event had a rewards, people had to grind to get the rewards.

And People getting what they want and leaving happens with every event. Every event has a spike in numbers and then a decline.

[(PSN)SolarPhantom82]

13 minutes ago, Kaotyke said:

No. Your logic makes no sense. Period.

Every event had grind, every event had a rewards, people had to grind to get the rewards.

And People getting what they want and leaving happens with every event. Every event has a spike in numbers and then a decline.

Ok   I don't think we disagree then..

[Hypernaut1]

Can someone explain to me how SS Is grindy (by Warframe standards)??? 

I found it easy to get the unique rewards. Aren't the arcanes the cherry on top? It's super efficient shortcut to a grind that would normally take years. Is there some super rare rewards I'm not aware of or something? 

If anything, I find this to be the least grindy event ever in Warframe. It's involves mobile defense, railjack, archwing, two factions to fight, 2 styles of objectives to do, and it's last over a month. 

How can you expect DE to really take you guys seriously? 

If Warframe dies before it's time, it'll be because of toxicity spreading and people repeating false ideas like SS is grindy. (Which is very unlikely to happen because even the complainers are playing SS to complete they're favorite arcane sets to continue grinding in a game that's apparently been getting worse for the past 2 years)

Edited April 9, 2020 by Hypernaut1

[Aesthier]

This is only one of many nails in the coffin but nowhere near the last. (Bigger coffins need more nails)

[Kaotyke]

13 minutes ago, Aesthier said:

This is only one of many nails in the coffin but nowhere near the last. (Bigger coffins need more nails)

They need bigger nails, because the ones the Forum Warriors are claiming to be used do not go past the wood of the lid.

[(NSW)Matt-S]

24 minutes ago, Hypernaut1 said:

Can someone explain to me how SS Is grindy (by Warframe standards)??? 

I found it easy to get the unique rewards. Aren't the arcanes the cherry on top? It's super efficient shortcut to a grind that would normally take years. Is there some super rare rewards I'm not aware of or something? 

If anything, I find this to be one of the least grindy events ever in Warframe. It's involves mobile defense, railjack, archwing, two factions to fight, 2 styles of objectives to do, and it's last over a month. 

How can you expect DE to really take you guys seriously? 

If Warframe dies before it's time, it'll be because of toxicity spreading and people repeating false ideas like SS is grindy. (Which is very unlikely to happen because even the complainers are playing SS to complete they're favorite arcane sets to continue grinding in a game that's apparently been getting worse for the past 2 years)

What I personally don't understand is people complaining about a grind in a grinding game.

I definitely understand disliking a grind that's way too long and is unrewarding while you're doing it (Liches, for example, are still here in my opinion), while also combatting RNG, but sometimes I get the impression if people aren't able to get everything they want in a few hours, it's "too grindy".

What do people want? Because when everything is obtainable quickly, the response is always that the content isn't enough, and it's simply not possible to create content faster than people complete it.

Edited April 9, 2020 by (NSW)Matt-S

[Ham_Grenabe]

Nail in the coffin is a high bar to meet: it would have to be a lot worse than what have been pretty par-for-the-course DE releases (i.e., buggy and insanely grindy). 

If they just stopped releasing or updating anything that would be the sign that it was over. Otherwise, Warframe can idle along probably forever on prime releases and new guns and cosmetics. There will always be players available to purchase new things. 

[(PSN)Napalm13b]

          Only time will tell if DE can pull a fix for some of the issues people have currently out of their tooshies. If i'm not happy with a game (or anything else really)

I don't support it. In the first year I spent quite a decent amount of money on the game (enough for a few car payments). In the past 8 months I have been less 

than pleased with updates, new warframes, and events to the point where I don't give DE a dime. I still play once every two weeks or so for a few min to see what

changes have been made. 

       If enough players stop blowing cash, I would assume DE would address problems in a timely matter. Until then, I think the gaps between my log ins will grow 

to the point of moving on to other games entirely. Whether this is the same for other players, I do not know. Great game with great potential, but that seems to be 

all it has, potential. Shame.

[Felsagger]

9 hours ago, Goodwill said:

Let's not be hyperbolic. DE does play their own game. They don't play it as a player though.

Think about it, if they did play as a player, we'd be looking at 2 content drops a year at best with NO guarantee it will actually be better.

And the forums will still be filled with complaints. When dealing with humans, it's always going to be a lose lose situation in the court of public opinion.

 

 

Hyperbolic? You answered your own question, sir. "They don't play it as a player though. 

In other words DE IS NOT PLAYING THEIR OWN GAME, Simple. 

A developer should go throughout every detail as a normal player go through without the cheat codes or the infinite platinum option or the dev tools. They always enjoy the game but they don't go through the design process of testing the new parameters. It is very basic. Yes they play some aspects of it but they don't know how is 'down here'. The design decisions are informed when there is a COMPLETE EXHAUSTION PROCESS on all the details. Those are the foundations of game design. I should not ask this to professionals. It is the same as asking an architect if he knows the number of users that will be in his designed building. How can he design a building if he doesn't know such number? 

What happened with the two years of Rail jack? Where they absent all that time? I'm not here to write complaints about a game. If I don't like Warframe I get a cup of coffee, my Oreos with milk and do something else like playing Chess in Chess.org. The game is free, my bishops are not gimped, my queen is not gimped and my pawns are not gimped. The rules are the same but my mods are the apertures and my skill is the capacity to reason in my mind different situation trees without moving my pieces. 

DE doesn't owe me nothing. I'm here on my free will. However DE is taking heat because THEY ARE NOT PLAYING THEIR GAME. Content quality is guaranteed when they go through a complete exhaustion process. When that happens their delivery remains professional. Even a snail complaint about their speed. But in a forum we are here to point out and converse why they are taking heavy flack fire. Things doesn't happen out of the blue. Leyou Technology invests but they want their money back. DE must do some measures in order to stress their community inducing economical gains without closing even on a fiscal year basis. They survive if they make money. We know how that show runs. But when you do business you have to keep your clients HAPPY. THAT IS THE VERY BASIC. Why we return to the very basic when new content arrives? Is it lack of professionalism? Is it a business strategy called programmed obsolescence? Is it simply that DE wants to NOT play test the game because that imply investments in game testers? 

 

See the problem? 

[Felsagger]

"Think about it, if they did play as a player, we'd be looking at 2 content drops a year at best with NO guarantee it will actually be better."

1. With top quality without bugs. There will be few but the quality will be very high. 

2. With good game performance, no gimps or random nerfs. The enemy will be powerful enough and there will be real content instead of fashion frame paraphernalia. 

3. There will be thought out weapons, there will be new tileset levels and there will be deep thinking on the moves they make. 

4. At the current rate DE is irking more the community, there is no reason to stay. Their mindset is not settled on veterans because they don't produce money with veterans. However Veterans market their game for free.

5. A free to play game depends on contributions of the players and of course on the pinwheel of platinum and value of time. But if I stay on a game that requires time then it is a nuisance to go through lots of bugs, shortcomings and nerfs every time they release new content. That reasoning is counterproductive to the goals they are seeking. 

See? 

Edited April 9, 2020 by Felsagger

[Helch0rn]

2 hours ago, (PS4)SolarPhantom82 said:

But poeple are grinding because they have too.  Not because they want too. . To top up their arcines...

DE has yet to put a gun to my head and force me to grind for content that is the definition of optional.

if you can't play without arcanes, then I have bad news for you

[Felsagger]

1 hour ago, Helch0rn said:

DE has yet to put a gun to my head and force me to grind for content that is the definition of optional.

if you can't play without Arcanes, then I have bad news for you

I have good news for him. He can pick another game. He can postpone the search for maximum meta and power creeping. He can try other Arcanes or trade for them. He can change his way of thinking by adapting, adopting and evolving. He can choose another play style and work throughout the game without the need to grind the Arcanes. 

Chorn, I think that explaining him the options in a positive way makes your message more illustrative. 

[(NSW)Greybones]

What do you do when you play Warframe, @Felsagger? 🤔

[(XBOX)Calliber]

This is nothing more than a bump in the road.  They can rebound.  The majority of negative reactions are just kneejerk.

[Zimzala]

The games change, but the doomsayers never quit.

The funny part for me is simple...let's say the doomsayers are correct and the game is now on it's way out of the maerketplace...

The only people that lose are the ones that are living from the proceeds of the product.

Players already got to play, they already got thier entertainment, at most they lose an opportunity ofr entertainment.

So, why all the angst and hate?

IMO, it comes from people who judge thier decisions based on how many other people make the same choices - the herd mentality.

So, the overall population takes a dip for a while...so what? Really, so what? You can still play the game.

So, you cannot play the OP thing you like to play now - is that really the only reason you played the game? If so, perhaps you just need a new game, or a break.

So, you might not actually being playing the game all the cool kids are playing...so what?

Having some loud players angry the evil game company cannot keep them endlessly entertained with constant new, perfect content is the same refrain we have been hearing about all live games, all the time, since there have been live games.

The llama drama is just that - worthless drama created by hateful/bored/mad gamers that like to tear down things to make themsleves feel better, IMO.

[Goodwill]

13 hours ago, Felsagger said:

 

Hyperbolic? You answered your own question, sir. "They don't play it as a player though. 

In other words DE IS NOT PLAYING THEIR OWN GAME, Simple. 

A developer should go throughout every detail as a normal player go through without the cheat codes or the infinite platinum option or the dev tools. They always enjoy the game but they don't go through the design process of testing the new parameters. It is very basic. Yes they play some aspects of it but they don't know how is 'down here'. The design decisions are informed when there is a COMPLETE EXHAUSTION PROCESS on all the details. Those are the foundations of game design. I should not ask this to professionals. It is the same as asking an architect if he knows the number of users that will be in his designed building. How can he design a building if he doesn't know such number? 

What happened with the two years of Rail jack? Where they absent all that time? I'm not here to write complaints about a game. If I don't like Warframe I get a cup of coffee, my Oreos with milk and do something else like playing Chess in Chess.org. The game is free, my bishops are not gimped, my queen is not gimped and my pawns are not gimped. The rules are the same but my mods are the apertures and my skill is the capacity to reason in my mind different situation trees without moving my pieces. 

DE doesn't owe me nothing. I'm here on my free will. However DE is taking heat because THEY ARE NOT PLAYING THEIR GAME. Content quality is guaranteed when they go through a complete exhaustion process. When that happens their delivery remains professional. Even a snail complaint about their speed. But in a forum we are here to point out and converse why they are taking heavy flack fire. Things doesn't happen out of the blue. Leyou Technology invests but they want their money back. DE must do some measures in order to stress their community inducing economical gains without closing even on a fiscal year basis. They survive if they make money. We know how that show runs. But when you do business you have to keep your clients HAPPY. THAT IS THE VERY BASIC. Why we return to the very basic when new content arrives? Is it lack of professionalism? Is it a business strategy called programmed obsolescence? Is it simply that DE wants to NOT play test the game because that imply investments in game testers? 

 

See the problem? 

Okay, you go and develop a game, and tell me if it's even physically possible to create a complete game, without playing it to an extent. I've created games before and you NEED to play them to see if a single button is even working.

I never said you were wrong, I said you were being hyperbolic. You could've just said, "okay, I'm being hyperbolic but point still stands". I don't completely disagree with you and calling someone hyperbolic is not disagreement. Like if you were to say, "my backpack weighs a ton", I would say you were being hyperbolic. But I get it, the backpack is heavy.

Thing is, NOBODY on the forums is offering solutions. That's why it seems like DE isn't listening because feedback, criticisms and suggestions are NOT solutions.

[GreyDeath789]

4 minutes ago, Goodwill said:

I never said you were wrong, I said you were being hyperbolic. You could've just said, "okay, I'm being hyperbolic but point still stands". I don't completely disagree with you and calling someone hyperbolic is not disagreement. Like if you were to say, "my backpack weighs a ton", I would say you were being hyperbolic. But I get it, the backpack is heavy.

Thing is, NOBODY on the forums is offering solutions. That's why it seems like DE isn't listening because feedback, criticisms and suggestions are NOT solutions.

Pot meet kettle..."NOBODY on the forums is offering solutions"...hehe...

Go watch the Home Time stream...around 5:40 DE Rebecca has some interesting information for the player community.

(https://forums.warframe.com/topic/1183780-thanks-for-watching-home-time-3/?tab=comments#comment-1149426