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Railjack Revisited (Part 1): Railjack Balance Feedback Megathread


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Greetings Tenno!

We have made a lot of changes to the way Railjack plays and feels, and we are looking to get your collected feedback.

In this mega-thread, we will be discussing RAILJACK BALANCE.

  • Time-To-Kill on Railjack Enemies
  • Overall Health and Damage of Enemies
  • Survivability of the Railjack
  • Difficulty of Boarding Parties

If you have feedback to leave on the subject of balancing, then please do so in this thread. Please remember that you should keep your feedback constructive and civil. If you like an aspect of the Railjack changes, tell us what you like. If you do not like an aspect, then tell us why, and what you would change to make it better!

Please bear in mind this is not a place to leave bugs you discover while playing. If you do need to report a bug, please use the Railjack Revisited: Bug Report Megathread.

Thank you!
 

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Here's my initial feedback from reading the patch notes, as I download (or attempt to download the update)

eqDX7v0.jpg

Most of these changes seem good, but halving the foot-soliders health kind of sucks for me as a veteran. I enjoyed fighting tankier enemies. My damage output is so high, I don't like losing out on enemies that take more than half a second to kill. Please throw us veterans a bone and give us a place to flex our end-game builds without forcing us to spend hours inside endless missions (falling asleep at our keyboards) before we get to enemies that are actually tanky compared to our ridiculous damage output.

Instead of reducing the explosion time of fighters, why not just keep their tailspin animation and simply have them drop the loot at the beginning of the animation instead of at the end? Then we'd get the best of both worlds: A cool animation, and also faster loot pickup.

The increase in credit rewards is nice to see. Can we get Axi relics from end-game railjack missions too?

Increasing revolite crafting amounts seems nice. Although it does make Railjack easier and less challenging in some sense.

Overall it seems like you've made Railjack easier and more accessible to new players. Now the question is, how are you going to challenge us veteran players? We are borrrrrrred. Give us something actually hard to do.

 

I put my feedback into a video here 

 

Edited by Flying_Scorpion
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I guess technically you hit the mark with the strength of the enemies for their respective levels, but now being a veteran I find myself completely unchallenged. I can breeze through any railjack mission solo in a short amount of time now, regardless of command intrinsics existing or not. I'd love to see more nodes, more different mission types and way higher levels or level sliders(+appropriate rewards) next.

 

EDIT: I'm sure that's kind of what a lot of players had actually wished for, but it was one of the only truly co-op experiences in the game with a decent amount of challenge, which is why I decided to address that here. I'm not mad, I am just hoping for a more challenging future for those of us that want it.

Edited by BlackCat500
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About the revolite cost change. Just no. 1 breach and 1 fire and it's a mandatory passage to the forge. Basically, you spend more time managing the revolite that you spend playing /fighting. The mods should no be mandatory to allow us to focus on the mission. This change needs a better balance. 

Ty for the update, for the rest, a lot of positives changes. 

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1 hour ago, Flying_Scorpion said:

Here's my initial feedback from reading the patch notes, as I download (or attempt to download the update)

eqDX7v0.jpg

Most of these changes seem good, but halving the foot-soliders health kind of sucks for me as a veteran. I enjoyed fighting tankier enemies. My damage output is so high, I don't like losing out on enemies that take more than half a second to kill. Please throw us veterans a bone and give us a place to flex our end-game builds without forcing us to spend hours inside endless missions (falling asleep at our keyboards) before we get to enemies that are actually tanky compared to our ridiculous damage output.

Instead of reducing the explosion time of fighters, why not just keep their tailspin animation and simply have them drop the loot at the beginning of the animation instead of at the end? Then we'd get the best of both worlds: A cool animation, and also faster loot pickup.

The increase in credit rewards is nice to see. Can we get Axi relics from end-game railjack missions too?

Increasing revolite crafting amounts seems nice. Although it does make Railjack easier and less challenging in some sense.

Overall it seems like you've made Railjack easier and more accessible to new players. Now the question is, how are you going to challenge us veteran players? We are borrrrrrred. Give us something actually hard to do.

Oh gods....

 

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Technical issue:  Level 10 'Tactical' does NOT teleport you to fellow crew member.  It just dumps your Tenno out into space.
NOT cool.
Please HOT-FIX A.S.A.mf.P.  
Thank you.
NOT a 1337 tryhard here so the damage reduction on the G'neer was welcome.  (and before you 'vets' start saying git-gud; I've been on deck when we still had endurance bars; so back the [cesnored] off.)
Was sick of getting one shotted regardless of my build / frames.

A few other technical / animation glitches
~the re-appearance of the archwing weapons carried when returning to the railjack 
~flicker of doom on the particle ram 
~weird fan-like aura when my archwing was boosting

Otherwise, not bad for a first pass.
I'm sure there will be numerous hot-fixes in the future.

"Keep the faith, stay safe and keep your Skana's sharp."🤘😎🤘
 

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Time to kill on foot? Nice. They're still more lethal than the average goon, but now I'm not contending with enemies that have more health than our raid bosses, the Eidolons, which is nice. No real complaints.

 

But, I'd like to bring something up about the space side. I was worried about the Health/armour nerf to space enemies, and I had right to be. Railjack fighters and even crewships are insanely squishy now. A fully powered railjack barely needs to do anything to almost instantly obliterate space-bound enemies without a second's thought. This is a bit disappointing, as I felt their durability before was pretty nice. You needed to invest a moment whilst dogfighting enemies at full power, but you were still definitely top dog once kitted out. Even Crewships. Disabling engines before was a process - it felt like actually taking on a target on the same 'level' as you - crewship to crewship - even if you were definitely the better vessel. It took several missiles and full charges of weapon fire to fully take out the engines.

I must say, on this (and thus far only this) I'm disappointed. Warframe doesn't need more mindless content - mindless content is what got us into this rut in the first place.

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In this mega-thread, we will be discussing RAILJACK BALANCE.

  • Time-To-Kill on Railjack Enemies

To low by far even without maxed avionics

  • Overall Health and Damage of Enemies

How would I know they instantly die now.

  • Survivability of the Railjack

Never was an issue, and certainly isn't now.

  • Difficulty of Boarding Parties

What boarding parties? You cannot think ramsleds will ever make it aboard now.

 

As someone that plays railjack primarily solo, this patch pretty much just train wrecked railjack, for me. The movement is no longer fun, what was done to boost is a travesty. The sprites coming off destroyed turrets looks horrible. The new graphic for particle ram looks terrible. The game mode was just turned into a snooze fest, and as an added bonus some of the graphics now look worse. WHY? By the way the tactical map now in certain cases overlaps the transport for the forge, and now Ivara is having severe missing body parts when in prowl on the railjack.

I'm highly disappointed... Railjacks been trivialized to the point it brings tears to my eyes.

Below is video of a couple things I would like to see addressed. A UI issue explained, and some other requests. Almost forgot how about a timer for void cloak?

Any chance this list will ever be addressed? The ship map on the tactical UI shifts depending on where you are in the ship. There is no timer for void cloak. While in the tactical menu loot drops block the view of the tactical menu(bottom avionic and warframe skill). I can't mark enemy crewship. The breach graphic is not very eye catching, then again I am mostly blind so maybe it's just me.We can't keybind the tactical avionics, and they don't have a default like the battle avionics, as PC gamers clicking is a last resort, and it aggravates me to no end. Why does 10 engineering anastasis, block the use of 3 tactical command link? Are you really telling me my drones can't finish a repair order while I teleport to another part of the ship? Can we not get a dome charge count on the pilots heads up next to the ordnance count? How about keybind default tacticals while piloting? 

Any chance of a survival mode any time soon, for those of us that actually want a challenge?

Edited by Nichivo
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Railjack Balance feedback:

With regards to the boost changes, appreciate the top speed increase, can live with the reduced boost multiplier. But for the love of god please revert the boost cost changes. I can barely hold my drift maneuver for long enough to circle a crewship. Very counter productive to use a quick repositioning tool to try and get behind a crewship for a good shot, only for you to get flung past the crewship and end up right where you started.

Not that you need to bother with positioning any more. I was able to leave my railjack and waltz through the ground objective on Ruse War Field (the highest level RJ mission), without the railjack taking much damage. I didn't have to bother with my void cloak, because the enemies tickle the railjack. I got back in the pilots seat, pressed 3 a couple times (I swapped out void hole for missiles since the duration of VH makes it not worth using any more) and nuked about 2/3 of the 30-odd fighters that were attacking me. Got in the main cannon and offed 2 crewships without even targeting their weakpoints. The only time I had any sort of hassle was when I was putting out a fire and kept missing the mark to put it out instantly.

Boarding parties were significantly easier than before, which is a good change but you overdid it a bit - they're way too easy now.

Overall, if your goal was for high-tier Railjack missions to be playable by beginner players: You hit that spot on. For those of us who have invested time into Railjack: this is a slap in the face. I read the update notes while it was downloading and had low expectations for this rebalance - I knew it was going to be a lot easier - but this is the part where I grab an MR10 friend, let them do the mission and just sit in the front cannon the whole time being bored.

TL;DR Railjack is too easy and now feels like a chore. I'm glad I burned out on railjack missions during Scarlet spear, because it looks like I'm not gonna be playing them much any more.

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While I understand the rationale behind the nerf to RJ speed boost, the magnitude of the nerf has made Boost effectively useless. Was that your goal? If it was, you have certainly achieved it here.

Edit: the cost increase is the problem here. It simply doesn't last long enough to remain useful.

Edited by Cyanide2018
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Any chances we get a wall display with Munitions and Dome Charges amounts in the Engineering bay? Constantly opening-closing the Forge to check remaining payload is uncomfortable.

Edited by Dargadon
Correcting
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New avionics made modding railjack too simple. Cost is simply too low and capacity is no longer a restrictive factor anymore. Before the patch I had to decide if I should put zetki bulkhead for maximum health or use lower quality one to save up reactor capacities for something else instead. Now I can literally fit fully upgrade avionics on every single slots on and still have like 10+ cap to spare. 

 

I understand that simplified thing is good but this new system take a way the uniqueness of railjack build. Feel like ability to make decision has been taken away 😢 For example, my old build used to have vidar bulkhead and hull weave, not because I can't find zetki version but because I choose to use lower capacity version to put zetki predator, section density and hyperstrike and Lavan conic nozzle and ion burn for maximum speed instead. I'm quite proud of my old railjack build since it's such a speedy glass cannon, that's what make my railjack unique, what made it fun. Now every railjack you find will have very similar build on them.

 

Let's not talk about how hard it is to farm those rare zetki avionics in the first place. Last I remember people were selling zetki hyperstrike for around 90-100 platinum, it's all gone now. I don't personally mind it that much since I usually farm them myself but I can see why people might be outrage by this change.

Edited by Laggyman
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I read all the patch notes and they seem to be good exept for the reward systom hasnt been looked at the RNG and grind are still the same i posted on the pacing page that if the rewards arnt worth geting the pacing dosent change anything much it just makes it a small bit easyer you wouldent want to play eather if your doing the hardest mission area and for your reward you get somthing you dont need or want like relics or more resourses you have over almost 1 million of  i think the rewards should be buffed or the systom changed completly 

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Time-To-Kill on Railjack Enemies:

Greatly improved overall.
I think the pacinc still feels a bit like playing "catch" with every single fighter rather than a dogfight, but besides that it's definitely more engaging than before.

Overall Health and Damage of Enemies:

Seems good.

Survivability of the Railjack:

Seems good, but was good before too. The limit to hazards is very nice though.

Difficulty of Boarding Parties:

Diffifculty is fine, but the frequency seems a bit high.
It would be nice to have a cooldown on their spawn after one boarding party hits the Railjack. This would avoid situations where the crew has cleared a boarding party and is returning to stations, only for another one to hit the Railjack as soon as they are in the turrets.

Misc:

Boosting could use a faster recharge rate considering its higher drain. Right now when moving from place to place the time spent recharging is way longer than the one spent boosting, and the difference in speed also seems hardly worth it.

In regards to the Valence Fusion, could we have preview of the materials that will be used, compared to how many we own? Or perhaps make it similar to the repair contribution.

There's an issue with the tactical menu's map that has become even more prominent after the update: the map centeres on the player's position, but this causes it to slide too far down to reach the forge or remotely repair hazards from the pilot seat:

Spoiler

WzO4uzp.png

Balancing:

I'd like to give my feedback in regards to the avionics rebalance.

The duration reduction on Void Hole feels unnecessary and inappropriate.
I assume that the intention here was to incentive more gameplay variety, however I don't think lowering its effectiveness compared to the other options is a good way to go about it.

Please consider balancing the battle avionics to be as powerful and worth using as Void Hole, not the other way around.

Edited by -CLM-Joker
Added boosting
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The increased drain on boosting and drifting is terrible, they hardly last at all anymore. Just revert the drain costs back to what they used to be, while keeping the new stats for base and boost speed.

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Boost feels like it does nothing at all any more. 75% nerf to its speed was way too far. The boost consumption increase was overboard too. Now it's useless and costs far too much. Overall it feel a #*!% of a lot sower than it used to.

Edited by Nyrakav
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Time-To-Kill on Railjack Enemies:

Seems good. It is possible to reasonably kill enemies with weapons now - as opposed to before, where abilities were 20x as fast.

Survivability of the Railjack:

Too high. The Railjack appears to be invulnerable, even during solo play of the highest level missions. This is with only 2 defensive Avionics, Bulkhead and Hull Weave. I suggest adjusting their numbers down, and maybe increase mobility in turn - to make you dodge some shots instead of tanking.

Difficulty of Boarding Parties:

Seems fine. You can always introduce harder content later, it is probably a good idea to give less experienced players a fighting chance in the beginning. Personally I'd like them to get tougher on the high end though.

Edited by Traumtulpe
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Ruse Warfield: The hardest Railjack mission in the veil before this patch now reduced to a "child's plaything....." 

I'm going to be blunt. Is this a Joke??

Two-shotting the hardest fighters is better? 

When did this game become more focused on letting MR 2 players be able to do what Mr 20 players do in a couple of seconds with no time or effort. This update I feel is a huge slap to the face of all those that actually devoted their time and effort to this game mode only for it to be made easier than normal warframe Earth missions? I understand that the game mode was not perfect, it has room for improvement with fixing glitches and expanding missions and not making railjack missions overly repetitive and like a chore, however making it easier was never the solution. What has happened now has made Railjack feel more like a chore and has made it soul crushingly boring to the point where we as the player now just want to complete the mission rather than play the game. Some of the UI changes to this patch were good i.e. the aiming cursers for moving ships (applause for that), but resetting avionic to rank 0 and making us have rerank avionics again and not implement a rank up systems similar to how mods are currently being done (choose rank to upgrade to and confirm) and not a repetitive rank up and confirm.

DE I hope that this message doesn't come across as ungrateful but please re-evaluate these changes that have been done and bring Railjack back to a Less buggy and less repetitive version of its former glory.

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here is my take on the changes done:

  • crewships are now rather shy in both, getting to the railjack and especially sending off ramsledges - i just played a veil mission with sentient-ship present in solo and had only one crewship even bother to send out a single ramsledge toward me, even when 3 of them were present at the scene (and that was more like an accident, since the other CS's didn't bother much getting to me even when i fired upon them from afar, which before triggered them to move to me). the stations and capital ships seems still normal in this way, sending out rams in the usual intervals and in pairs like before. not sure if that all is intended for players in solo mode, which might be a good choice for some new railjackers out there, but at least in the veil missions i'd like some more action, solo or not...
  • the age-old problem with companions (cats, dogs and robots only) when doing either a manual transition between ground and space still is an issue - meaning our pets might be shown as dead when we enter a ship or base (still, oddly enough the multiple effect on them like vacuum and radar still work - likely because they are not dead at all...). ofc, this fixes itself after repeating the process of exiting and entering again, but that's not the point, right? it might have to do with certain mods in use (the 'linked' ones...) for it only happens with those mods in the pet and neither ever happen when using sentinels instead.
  • the survivability of the railjack is now a bit too good... sure, i have maxed hull, armor and shield avionics in use, but not even once in a mission getting a little hull breach or fire on board (in addition of not getting any bording parties) make this a little too easy for my taste... oh yes, i'm speaking of veil-missions ofc...
  • the reduce of the void-hole active timer would have been ok if the force and range would really compensate for it, which isn't the case. idk, what you named 'force' here, but i'm talking about the speed of which the enemy fighters are being 'sucked' into the singularity - and this is still far too slow to compensate for the halved duration of the void-hole. make the speed double, regardless of the ships inertia (which always felt somewhat wrong, physic-wise, even before).
  • the booster change was uncalled for - and ofc you still not changed the (mostly) useless forward jump after vectoring ends (yes, make the jump toward the direction you actually vectored to). if you want to lessen the use of the booster, then at least double the booser energy recovery too - just because you doubled the bast speed, which is good and was certainly necessary regardless of any other reasons, doesn't mean the need of a boosting system should be rendered useless... yes, useless! using the booster now feels totally as if it was not in use at all - and i even have all booster related avionic at max active... revert it back to its former speed (based on the new base-speed), double the booster energy consumption but in turn double its recovery too. also, the change to the 'dodge' is nonsense too - not only was it of little use before (due to vectoring) the energy use of it was already far too high for the little effect it had. now it's even more useless...

the other changes are either good imo, or i didn't test them yet.

all in all, you made the railjack a bit too easy for those players who have a maxed-out ship and (maybe) a full set of intrinsics - again, speaking of testing all this in solo and veil-missions only so far... but there is a good guess that with a full team and/or more lower regions that easiness will only be more noticable. if that was the intention of the changes, then i'd say it was done correctly... if not, then i say you overshot the target ^^)

Edited by fr4gb4ll
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I like a lot of these changes, the increase to base speed feels nice but...

The Boost changes, frankly, feel absolutely terrible. 

Before, good maneuverability came from mastering the Drift Maneuver. Now Drift is completely gutted. I feel slower than ever, and I feel like all of my Intrinsics that had to do with Drifting like Combat Drift are completely wasted. Railjack combat has become less dynamic for me now that it's just WASD movement with no key combos to really boost my speed. Drifting felt akin to how bullet jumping, dashing and dodging should be used to increase speed in land mode.  This is like slightly boosting base run speed and giving Bullet Jump and Dodge a 5 second cooldown. 

Edited by Gelkor
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2 hours ago, Laggyman said:

New avionics made modding railjack too simple. Cost is simply too low and capacity is no longer a restrictive factor anymore.

don't know about your ship or the avionic you used before, but me with a +100 avionic-cap still have 3 leftover cap when i use the exact same avionics as i done before... ok, i could put the tow last ranks into one of the battle avionics that before did not fit with max capacity but that is only a little more extra capacity in the end compared to what we had before - no way this now 'too simple'

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