Can we talk about Kuva Bramma, MR 15 weapon, one of the best primary in the game right now, usable by MR 0 basically(mr5)?

[--EC--Adrenaline]

Imagine starting a game, and almost immediately you can get your hands on one of the best weapons available. For the rest of the game you just stomp your way through the game in super-easy mode.

-Only challenge for new players is basically to not die.

-Difficulty curve is deleted for most of the gameplay (quests, unlocking nodes, most boss fights, excluding arbitration etc.)

-No challenge in gameplay = unrewarding = lower gameplay quality = boredom

Not completely sure so don't quote me on this but I assume Kuva liches were meant to be part of "end game content", a thing you do after you complete most stuff (plains, vallis, main and side quests etc.) but that's just non-existent.

I literally saw a few times newbies typing in recruit chat looking for a specific mission/farm and adding that they have a Bramma

I'm very curious about the balance reasoning behind this, it's not possible that after so much time since release it's just a bug that players lower than MR 15 can use it, so they intended this to happen.

How is this good for the game?

Edited May 15, 2020 by --EC--Adrenaline

[GPrime96]

> MR 0

What Drugs have you been taking?

[freeformline]

I've not heard of the situation you're talking about, but I agree that the Kuva Bramma is bad for the game for its VFX if nothing else. It's like the Synoid Simulor spam days all over again.

[Traumtulpe]

Can't you also buy weapons from the market, and use them regardless of MR?

[trst]

The difficulty curve is already non-existent to people who look up what the easiest progression path is or that found a random partner that wanted to make easy youtube bucks by spelling it out for everyone. But just getting a Bramma is still a lot of little steps that all take time to be able to do even if you know what they all are; if players want to fast track to that then let them.

Besides practically speaking it's no worse than the Hek has always been as it still trivializes the starchart and all it requires is mr4 and five Neurodes.

Edited May 15, 2020 by trst

[GPrime96]

Just now, Traumtulpe said:

Can't you also buy weapons from the market, and use them regardless of MR?

I know PA Weapons can be received without any MR Restrictions but normal Weapons from In - Game Market, not sure.

[spirit_of_76]

umm how? the liches are locked behind the new war an MR 5 quest with most of the stuff you need to start hunting lihces locked till MR10 (mostly quality weapons)

[bad4youLT]

To get to the war within player must be atleast mr5 but I do see your point , kuva weapons really do need actual mastery lock , like you cant claim weapon if your under ranked.

[Talinthis]

no, we cant.

 

[--EC--Adrenaline]

il y a 21 minutes, GPrime96 a dit :

> MR 0

What Drugs have you been taking?

"MR 0 basically" understand context.

 

il y a 13 minutes, spirit_of_76 a dit :

umm how? the liches are locked behind the new war an MR 5 quest with most of the stuff you need to start hunting lihces locked till MR10 (mostly quality weapons)

MR5 yes but liches are unlocked after the war within, that's it. Any kuva weapon you get from that point on you can use regardless if you stay at MR5 or not.

 

il y a 7 minutes, (XB1)TyeGoo a dit :

I'd like to see skillfull changes to be made. For example a reload mechanic being implemented where you have to time reloading for max benefit, much like gears 5 had.

Because I sure enjoy teammates finally being able to compete with me.

Something like that is would be pretty nice.

Edited May 15, 2020 by --EC--Adrenaline

[Drachnyn]

I think you need to be atleast MR 5 to complete War Within, which is required for larvlings to show up. My advice to anyone finishing War Within is to not bother with liches yet as they are usually way beyond what your typical MR 5 coming out of war within can handle. With how high of a level liches usually get i'd put them way later in the quest progression. 

Effects only need to be toned down for allies, I like my bramma effects for me personally. Not just for the bramma but for other visual effect barrages like ember'4, staticor, simulor and others we need an option to turn down ally effect intensity like FF14 has for example or like we have already for ally mandachords and shawzins.

[Wiz3rd]

So far I've only seen new players shy away from doing Liches for the simple fact that they were getting destroyed.
What you say might happen in some very fringe cases, but other than that you're blowing the thing waaaaay out of proportions.
Seriously.
How many MR 0-10's have you seen with a Kuva Bramma?

[-AoN-CanoLathra-]

As I proposed in another thread:

21 hours ago, -AoN-CanoLathra- said:

One could fix the Bramma pretty easily, by essentially side-grading it.

Critical Chance: 35% -> 40%

Critical Damage: 2.1x -> 2.5x

Status Chance: 21% -> 30%

Radial Attack: 839 Blast -> 420 Blast

Attack Radius: 8.3m -> 8m

Radial Falloff: 90% -> 80%

Cluster Bombs: 6*187 Blast -> 6*100 Blast

Ammo Capacity: 15 -> 10

(all stats not listed remain the same)

By halving the base damage, but improving Crit and Status, it becomes more focused on status effects (including HM) instead of killing merely through raw damage. It also means it kills heavy units over time instead of instantly. By not nerfing the clusters as hard as the main attack, and by making the radial attack deal almost the same damage at its maximum range as it did before, it retains its ability to delete fodder, while taking more care (and typically a second shot) to remove heavy units. The slight reduction to radius is mostly just to clean up DE's weird math from when they changed AoE size, and make Firestorm a little easier to calculate. A reduction to Max Ammo forces players to go pick up ammo more often and not just sit in a corner hitting everything from far away.

Since every hit will crit with just Point Strike, Hunter Munitions will have a chance to proc with every hit. With 30% status chance, along with a 30% slash status chance from HM, you can semi-reliably proc viral and slash on heavy units to ensure they die with only one shot, but not as instantly as pre-change.

Overall, it has slightly lower sustained DPS, but the same amount of fodder clear, while still taking out heavy units, but with a more measured approach.

[(PSN)grayhyh]

25 minutes ago, Traumtulpe said:

Can't you also buy weapons from the market, and use them regardless of MR?

I did a new acc and... You cant apparently.

[--EC--Adrenaline]

il y a 3 minutes, Drachnyn a dit :

I think you need to be atleast MR 5 to complete War Within, which is required for larvlings to show up. My advice to anyone finishing War Within is to not bother with liches yet as they are usually way beyond what your typical MR 5 coming out of war within can handle. With how high of a level liches usually get i'd put them way later in the quest progression.

I've seen too many ask for help to kill their lich or just join public matches instead, hoping someone will be there to do the heavy lifting, same situation as it is for sorties.

And yeah I agree on putting them possibly after Chimera Prologue.

 

[0_The_F00l]

The Kuva Bramma was a mistake on many levels,

Poorly balancced ,

poorly setup for VFX ,

supports braindead playstyle.

 

I have raised multiple issues with that and a specific frame loadout.

 

On a side note "Brahmastra" is very apt and accurate to its soource term ,

The one weapon that is thematically consistent with its name (kinda) and its totally bonkers.

[(PSN)grayhyh]

23 minutes ago, spirit_of_76 said:

umm how? the liches are locked behind the new war an MR 5 quest with most of the stuff you need to start hunting lihces locked till MR10 (mostly quality weapons)

the liches weps mr gets ignored becuase you get the wep ready to claim in your foundry after you beated the lich... i see mr8-11 often with a bramma lol i saw one mr 10 with luva ogris which has like mr13-14 req iirc? the mr req of the kuva weps gets ignored so yeah only TWW is locked behind mr 5 but you can pretty much get kuva bramma at mr 5 if you desire so,i have mine since mr12 on this second acc lol and bramma is mr15.

[Drachnyn]

vor 5 Minuten schrieb --EC--Adrenaline:

I've seen too many ask for help to kill their lich or just join public matches instead, hoping someone will be there to do the heavy lifting, same situation as it is for sorties.

And yeah I agree on putting them possibly after Chimera Prologue.

 

Part of the problem is also new people not realizing what they are getting themselves into. Another reason to put it at a later spot and possibly behind its own mini quest aswell.

[Voltage]

1 hour ago, --EC--Adrenaline said:

How is this good for the game?

It's not, but DE doesn't seem to understand their previous mistakes and got themselves caught into the same problem again. You see Tonkor, Synoid Simulor, Telos Boltace with slash AoE, Saryn's old Miasma, Mesa's old Peacemaker, Catchmoon, Scoliac with 365% modded Range, and Kuva Bramma all have the same thing in common from an imbalance perspective and each of these items has a timeline that goes back 5+ years. DE now has to somehow address Kuva Bramma without another PR disaster taking place like Empyrean, Scarlet Spear, and Kuva Liches. I just hope for once DE addresses the core issue and does not bandaid it like they usually do (cough cough Riven Disposition).

We are going further down the rabbit hole of letting players invest time, resources, and/or money into updates and gear that will disrespect that investment later. This is nothing new and it's sad that this has been the development cycle for many years.

Edited May 15, 2020 by Voltage

[Stonehenge]

Can we talk about Kuva Bramma,

 

Yep why not. In my opinion, it's a garbage, not because it's weak, or unaesthetic (I love grineer design usually) but because it incentivises the laziest gameplay, and the ugliest, like all the "Splash-BIG AOE-nuke weapon-kaboom-you r all dead-it's so fun." Just like catchmoon did once. I simply hate this kind of braindead weapon, like someone said it before me. And like all the weapons that suddenly Youtube says it's the new meta and 90% of players think they absolutely need it, it will get nerfed. As usual.

 

Edited May 15, 2020 by Stonehenge

[SneakyErvin]

34 minutes ago, --EC--Adrenaline said:

MR5 yes but liches are unlocked after the war within, that's it. Any kuva weapon you get from that point on you can use regardless if you stay at MR5 or not.

What is the problem at that point though? You say they get the Bramma and it turns all quests into trivial things. But they've already done most of the star chart and quests when they're done with TWW. If they actually struggle through and beat their liches at that point in progression they deserve the weapons. I wish the liches were of that challenge level for the rest of us aswell and not some instagibbed speed bump with a poor attitude.

IMO it is a perfect spot to place them at MR5/TWW since it actually gives newer players something many of the rest of us are looking for, a challenge and something to work towards overcoming, both the lich nodes aswell as the requiem fissures.

People getting carried is another question, but legit players that may love to experience overcoming a challenge should not be cockblocked by some gate being put in place to stop people from getting carried.

[zehne]

This topic is re-occurring, for good reason imo.  I'll just leave these:

EDIT:

5 minutes ago, SneakyErvin said:

But they've already done most of the star chart and quests when they're done with TWW. If they actually struggle through and beat their liches at that point in progression they deserve the weapons.

...

People getting carried is another question, but legit players that may love to experience overcoming a challenge should not be cockblocked by some gate being put in place to stop people from getting carried.

It's pretty much a guarantee they got carried, or got the lucky RNG and killed lich 1st/2nd attempt.  Look at the profiles, how likely is it that those weapons even with maxxed mods and max forma would actually scratch a lich?  How likely is it that those players have maxxed mods?

Edited May 15, 2020 by zehne

[Stonehenge]

il y a 26 minutes, Voltage a dit :

It's not, but DE doesn't seem to understand their previous mistakes and got themselves caught into the same problem again. You see Tonkor, Synoid Simulor, Telos Boltace, Saryn's old Miasma, Mesa's old Peacemaker, Catchmoon, Scoliac with 365% modded Range, and Kuva Bramma all have the same thing in common from an imbalance perspective and each of these items has a timeline that goes back 5+ years. DE now has to somehow address Kuva Bramma without another PR disaster taking place like Empyrean, Scarlet Spear, and Kuva Liches. I just hope for once DE addresses the core issue and does not bandaid it like they usually do like Riven Disposition.

We are going further down the rabbit hole of letting players invest time, resources, and/or money into updates and gear that will disrespect that investment later. This is nothing new and it's sad that this has been the development cycle for many years.

This.

[xcrimsonlegendx]

How is MR5 basically "MR0"?

[Magus_Tahir]

4 minutes ago, Stonehenge said:

Can we talk about Kuva Bramma,

 

Yep why not. In my opinion, it's a garbage, not because it's weak, or unaesthetic (I love grineer design usually) but because it incentivises the laziest gameplay, and the ugliest, like all the "Splash-BIG AOE-nuke weapon-kaboom-you r all dead-it's so fun." Just like catchmoon did once. I simply hate this kind of braindead weapon, like someone said it before me. And like all the weapons that suddenly Youtube says it's the new meta and 90% of players think they absolutely need it, it will get nerfed. As usual.

 

Well technically "Splash-BIG AOE-nuke weapon-kaboom-you r all dead-it's so fun" is my prefered play style and I'm sure it fits right in with many people. Nothing puts a smile on my face while using a 280% Range Vauban, or Volt Aoe/Bramma, and my fave Nezha and point blank Explosions Bramma. I'm not a Volt main for nothing ya know. 😇

Going on twenty years playing Mages in many many games AoE is the essence of my entire power fantasy, it also works out as I have nerve damage in my wrists so I can't do pin point precision without an extremely high sensitivity setting which drastically affects the rest of the game for me. I will admit the bow is a beast, and it is too powerful. However I can not see how they can adjust it without causing a PR nightmare. The other reality is there is always going to be a meta, the players demand one and they always find one. DE has to find a new way and honestly I think they need to make it part of their next test cluster if or when they do decide to change the bow. 

If I had to wager when they may change the bow id say when Kitgun Primaries come out, and I would say there is a 60% chance of it being hit with the nerf bat and thats being conservative. Until then I will love my Bramma her name is Mimi. Say hai to Stonehenge Mimi.

 

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