Any proof that DE reads the forums properly?

[(XBOX)Ancient Mutt]

I get it, there are probably hundreds of thousands of threads to read every week. So many ideas and discussions, so few staff and so little time. 

The problem I see is that even the little and poorly written posts have goldmines of ideas and points of view that seem to just get ignored. It's a waste. Ok, a lot of the time the posts aren't worth anybody's time or effort, but sifting for gold is kinda the point here.

DE want us to post feedback and bug stuff in the appropriate areas; support tickets for such things aren't acceptable policy anymore. Most of the time, I suspect that bugs aren't even read... they're subjects just tossed into the mountain of 'to do' and never seen again. The odd patch note mentions a mention of a bug report, but that seemed way too 'rigged' to me. 

I have no confidence in DE's support or seriousness in how they cater to the community. Heck, it's not even a requirement to listen to us, they can do what they want and community be damned. We just play the game they make and pay money to bend the rules in our favour. DE don't really need to lift a finger other than to run their business and pay salaries and taxes.

I have no confidence, but this can easily be remedied if we saw more active involvement from the top brass in these areas of the forums - with actual deeds and consequences!

Sometimes, a king should visit the lowest tavern of their capital city, even if it is dirty and dangerous and ill-advised. Let's see DE_Steve and Co. in here and be more vocal with the masses and actually implement fun ideas big or small, even if just a trial run. Be braver with the design council, even.

We're not always that revolting, right?

 

... I could be wrong, of course.

Edited June 16, 2020 by (XB1)Primus Patronum

[KimikoLastchance]

going out on a limb and saying the fact that things people complain about all the time get the Nerf  bat is a good evadance.

[(XBOX)Ancient Mutt]

1 minute ago, KimikoLastchance said:

going out on a limb and saying the fact that things people complain about all the time get the Nerf  bat is a good evadance.

No, that's just daddy taking the toys away from kids who can't play nice. The nerf bat always seems a bit of a lazy method to deal with imbalances, in my point of view. The latest 'refinement' of the Bramma seems refreshingly fair to me, though!

[KimikoLastchance]

1 minute ago, (XB1)Primus Patronum said:

No, that's just daddy taking the toys away from kids who can't play nice. The nerf bat always seems a bit of a lazy method to deal with imbalances, in my point of view. The latest 'refinement' of the Bramma seems refreshingly fair to me, though!

i agree with you on the brama fix that thing needed a rain in i was using "nerf bat" in a fun half joking way but DE does address concerns people have on this forum as a result i do feel they do read this forum 

[(XBOX)Ancient Mutt]

2 minutes ago, KimikoLastchance said:

i agree with you on the brama fix that thing needed a rain in i was using "nerf bat" in a fun half joking way but DE does address concerns people have on this forum as a result i do feel they do read this forum 

It would be encouraging to see acknowledgment from them, though. Even if it's a few simple words of 'Seems interesting..." or "We tried that... it's a 'no' at the moment," even be brave enough to tell an ugly truth such as "We cannot spare the time or resources to do that right now." 

A sticker system might work too, just to show 'this idea has been recorded and thrown in the pile for a review at a later date' = purple circle, applied only by top brass accounts, on topic title, moved to feedback and closed. Other colours might mean something else. 

Anything. Any organisation or system to demonstrate strong community involvement.

 

[BDMblue]

A lot of devs have a Twitter/ reddit account and honestly they use it mostly for none work. They go from the posts about some tv show they watch and flip to Warframe then to some other thing to kill time. Logging into the official form is only work related so less viewed by the whole team.

 

its not just the devs of this game but all games. Give your employees access to a site like that and they won’t only use it for work.

[vanaukas]

I wish they could, but people would start to expect dev answers and they will rage of they don't get one... Even I sinned on that when I asked / demanded a more fair rework for vazarin with the healing changes. I was begging for an answer and then let go on a rant, I feel very ashamed for that, but I still think that vazarin needs changes, the whole school system scream for rework. I wish operator mode could be more enjoyable for the masses or if we could kill those myths around them created by mediocre youtubers who put zero effort on them and then calling them trash. I wish that because more popularity over something, the more balance it have from the dev team (very reasonable tho).

Edited June 16, 2020 by vanaukas
typos

[NekroArts]

 

[Yasha-7HS]

Do people not know this tab exists? 

https://forums.warframe.com/discover/1896/

It's right at the top of the page. 

[TARINunit9]

1 hour ago, (XB1)Primus Patronum said:

We're not always that revolting, right?

 

... I could be wrong, of course.

Steve's official response is that they don't PERSONALLY read the feedback, but they have a system for getting as much as humanly reasonable. And that system is (with some paraphrasing on my part) they have interns, community managers, personal assistants, etc. trawl through the forums and partner videos. They filter out the personal attacks and unconstructive bile, and once they're left with actual feedback they package it for the devs to consume

1 hour ago, (XB1)Primus Patronum said:

Most of the time, I suspect that bugs aren't even read... they're subjects just tossed into the mountain of 'to do' and never seen again. The odd patch note mentions a mention of a bug report, but that seemed way too 'rigged' to me. 

I was once told by a big studio developer that any project that ships with a deadline has a thousand bugs the team already knows about. Thus I have two theories:

1. Most of the bug reports we give them are more like "priority markers" or "help replicating the bug to narrow it down", and very rarely do we blindside them with a bug they didn't know about

2. Most bugfixes got a dozen bug reports, and DE aren't going to bother linking to them. In addition to this, most patch notes are actually just copy-pastes straight from Google Docs (DE's own admission) so if they left a forum or Reddit link in there as credit to us for finding it, it was because they wanted to keep track of the bug itself so they wouldn't forget about it

[Librus_107]

Combing through all the stuff that flows through here is a monstrous task - but posts have been made before on the systems in place to try and find relevant and interesting stuff, as well as teams of admins and moderators who check in on this place on the regular. If you find one of those accounts with a green name, you can follow them - and they respond quite often, though usually to quell riots or lock threads when they go sour. 

And we've seen seemingly random posts in the sea of text here get replied to by devs on occasion - so they do see! 

I've done community moderation work in the past, and it is brutal - so I can imagine it being a huge undertaking for a team to sift through a community on the scale of legit millions of users. But there are systems in place, and people running patrols - so I think odds are you are probably spotted at some point. Just maybe ignored for a multitude of legitimate reasons, like the bug being already filed, or the feedback having already been reported before. Gamedev is hard, hard work, especially with a community this large responding constantly.

That said... I wouldn't mind some more transparency on this sort of thing from time to time - more references to bug reports in the patch notes, perhaps. 

[BRZZAFK]

Rebecca did ask question that people talking on forums in devstream. 

But that doesnt mean everything people come out on forums will be deal with even if devs want to.

[Fallen77]

I have no confidence in you to spend any time considering how massiv of a task it is to make a game. 

It is SO easy to complain when you don't know what you're talking about. Let me demand that DE just does pretty much everything we tell them to, they're game developpers right ?

Also a huge portion of the proposition made by the community, weither in feedback or elsewhere, are overly simplistic and/or don't take everything into account and/or are plain ludicrous.

Also wtf support ticket are not an acceptable policy ? How in the fludge do you want to do this ? You expect a dev to stop in their tracks to take care immediatly of every single hickup in the instant ? God forbid we ever have to wait for anything right ?

[(PSN)STR8L8CED]

DE gives zero #*!%s unless its a mass revolt on Reddit or Twitter.

[trst]

The fact that there are lists of bug fixes every patch and that there are regular changes that are related to various complaints and common suggestions get added should be proof enough that they do. They are slow, often incredibly so, in making some of these changes but they do happen regardless of whether people ignore when or why they do.

Just look at every Nightwave change that has happened since its addition. Nearly every change, act nerf, and reward adjustment have been things suggested by players. Even the existence of Nightwave itself as an alert replacement is something players requested.

The Bramma nerfs which given DE's track record in being reluctant to nerf things it likely would have taken far longer if there wasn't a portion of the community also pushing for it.

Or even the entire debacle of self damage removal which was a direct request players made for years while the self stagger addition likely would have never happened if there wasn't the pushback to the original suggestion by players who wanted to keep self damage as a punishment.

[(PSN)robotwars7]

5 hours ago, (XB1)Primus Patronum said:

We're not always that revolting, right?

to be fair, DE haven't done too bad as of late: they had the test server thing for Railjack, and Deadlock Protocol seems like a more old-school type of update, the kind which a lot of players have wanted: where old stuff is made new again and we get a few toys to play with, as well as a quest. there's definitely been far worse updates *railjack launch*, and I think they do read the forums, just not very often. myself and a few others kept saying on the forum how much we'd love Aklex Prime and Akvasto Prime, and while it took years, it eventually happened. we also spent ages asking for reworks of frames like Ember and Vauban, and now both of those frames are stronger than ever.

you have to be INSANELY patient, more patient than most can handle, but eventually, things we want can and do get done.

 

[LoneWolveYoutube]

I think they do.  I made a post about a status chance bug that existed for like 9 months, and they finally fixed it 2 days after my post. 

[(PSN)Vexx757]

I have proof that DE listens to feedback but unfortunately, it`s not where they should be looking (imo) and this “idea” has made using this bad,I was going to post this on my post first but since someone is asking for proof and I have it, I will present it.

Someone gave an idea on how Ash`s bs could work and DE Rebecca replied to it (which I don`t have proof of coz I can`t find it anymore), my issue with this is that ppl have been posting and posting for years and get no reply, but out of the blue someone at DE replies to a player and her reply ticked me the heck off.

I can`t 100% remember what she said but she said on the lines of “I like this idea and we will use it” firstly, you should not just randomly reply to someone when other ppl have not been listened to, they could have had a better solution to Ash`s bs and get irritated that someone at DE didn`t reply to their ideas but you reply to someone else. Secondly If you are going to reply to ppl, you need to do it on a consistent bases not just a one off and thirdly you main focus should be looking at feedback on the warframe forums but instead you go to the reddit which you know most ppl don`t bloody go their compared to the warframe forums.

As much as it will make me look bad for admitting it (but I don`t give a frig), I was the person that got irritated when I saw that reply rebecca made, I would of rather her say nothing and use that idea than to actually say something and acknowledge it IN PUBLIC, I’m not upset at the ppl giving the idea I’m upset that someone at DE replied to an idea they don`t have consideration of who might see it and how they might feel DE Rebecca… SHAME ON YOU FOR DOING THAT THINK FIRST BEFORE YOU TALK (watch the fan boys/girls cuss me out for this) and that DE don`t play their own game (besides Pablo thank bloody goodness), even someone had the damn sense to realise that this idea is a bad and called it out before it was even implemented (which I have proof of but I’m saving that for another time). Imo the marking mechanic should never be tied to damage EVER and I feel my solution to bs caters to both sides so for the ppl that don`t like bs, you now know the history of how the idea came to be, the first marking mechanic implemented the wrong way and why bs is mostly un-usable and ineffective to this day and I will admit, on paper it makes sense however if it “making sense” makes an ability not fun to use and doesn’t work in practise I say frig making it make sense (hydroid`s 2 makes no bloody logical sense).

As for the proof I do have, it`s someone giving an idea of how you are not forced onto the animation (which is still a bad idea imo and this person didn`t think through the issues it could have) which was back in 2018 before this was implemented.

Spoiler

 

Spoiler

Besides the dumb marking mechanic, the solution is pretty simple; press to jump in the animation and hold to send clones out to kill, it should be common sense why this is much better than what we have now if you play Ash.

You must be thinking “well you talking all this bloody crap what solution do you have?” well I do. Here is a post presenting Ash`s issues and the solutions to fix them and consistent posting of info relating to Ash.

 

 

Also here are some ideas for reworks, revisits and QOL`s for every frame.

 

But again, DE do need to give some sort of indication that they are actually reading our feedback and taking heed to them CONSISTENTLY so your idea about the purple stickers, I agree with and should happen so please keep pushing that idea.

 

Edited June 16, 2020 by (PS4)Vexx757

[Magus_Tahir]

7 hours ago, (PS4)Vexx757 said:

But again, DE do need to give some sort of indication that they are actually reading our feedback and taking heed to them CONSISTENTLY so your idea about the purple stickers, I agree with and should happen so please keep pushing that idea.

We do have that in video games. Its under the technical term of "Patch Notes".

Due to the very nature of how forum feed back is sifted, correlated, and condensed for Devs to cover having to spend the same time reverse engineer that just to mark posts is not feasible or a good way to spend time and resources. We dont know what points in said feedback will be found actionable and they are sorting through pages upon pages a day across multiple platforms. 

 

 

Edited June 16, 2020 by Magus_Tahir
Platformals what a typo I love it.

[(XBOX)Ancient Mutt]

Wow, cool replies! Thanks everyone!

[Fl_3]

9 hours ago, (PS4)STR8L8CED said:

DE gives zero #*!%s unless its one certain person who's a friend of the devs on Reddit or Twitter.

I fixed that for you.

The ability to use universal medallions to buy rank in Conclave was removed from the game after one person (who claimed to be a friend of [DE]Steve or so the story goes) posted on a Reddit subforum about them and how unfair it was to give something to people who hadn't had to grind through the awful that is Conclave.

DE does listen, but only if your some kind of significant person to one of them.

Edited June 16, 2020 by Fl_3
I don't do Grammar apparently :(

[kwlingo]

Better luck on Reddit.

[KosmicKerman]

12 hours ago, (XB1)Primus Patronum said:

 

... I could be wrong, of course.

I'm going to assume that you never look at the patch notes, never watch at the live streams, and never read the dev workshop threads. The patch notes frequently reference posts that report bugs, community sentiment is not infrequently mentioned during live streams, and the dev workshops exist in no small part to get community feedback on proposed changes. So, does DE listen to the community? Yes. Are they perfect? No. More importantly, listening is not the same thing as doing and the two should not be conflated. Plenty of people ask DE for things that would be financially harmful to DE (most of which boil down to requests to change systems so that players are less incentivized to spend plat). For obvious reasons, no amount of "listening" will cause DE to make those changes. Another problem is that the community as a whole is fairly schizophrenic. A lot of players have desires that are in direct opposition of the desires of a lot of other players. Finally, there's also the problem of the vocal minority. The people active in forums are not always representative of the player base as a whole. So just because DE doesn't implement a change you want doesn't mean they don't pay attention or listen to the community.

[nslay]

Here's some evidence:

 

[Tesseract7777]

Over the years it is clear to me they read the forums... especially if you put stuff not as rants in general, but in the proper feedback forums, and especially the megathreads.

However, some have admitted before that they don't read feedback if it come across as at all rude or hostile in any way, so you might get ignored if you aren't kind. 

As for them posting, would you want to? The devs don't really like to post because... I mean really, just imagine how much they would get spammed about changing or not changing things? They would be hit with dozens of notifies any time they replied to a post. 

 

I can tell you personally that I have been very outspoken over the years, and I have seen far too many suggestions I made addressed in some way or another, and sometimes very close to what I suggested to believe they don't pay attention. 

Edited June 16, 2020 by Tesseract7777