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[DE]Rebecca

THE STEEL PATH! Upcoming 'Hard Mode'.

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This should be really fun. I am curious how scaling will feel on disruption nodes, as they already scale pretty quickly. It will be nice to actually have a reason for my overly forma'd gear.

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Posted (edited)
9 minutes ago, --Q--FSK41 said:

It was always and will always be possible to kill enemies at high level with slash procs that are buffed by mods and other things such as viral. It is in the nature of Slash as it bypasses armour,the old scaling would help because now any melee can kill most level 9999 far to easy,its like I cough at them and they die,also giving a cap to shield gating or at least something like a extending timer so you it looses reliability over time (for example needs 10 seconds cooldown and gives 0.1 seconds protection after u used it 100 times) would make the game harder over time.

I'm no expert on the RNG side of the game, but if a challenge is what you're looking for, perhaps limit yourself to weaker setups during missions that aren't as strong as the effective ones you might have spent hours working towards. It could make the efforts and rewards feel worthwhile if you do show a level of experience to work for it, rather than just winning the easy way. Try and create a challenge for yourself that you can be proud of.

Edited by (NSW)Glaive-012
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Just now, SutraKami said:

Will Teshin be our objective announcer?!?!?!?!

That would be at least an interesting change for such a deal; but I wouldn't figure since its just the same nodes as normal. Akin to how nightmare are just the same nodes generally with a higher enemy level and a negative applied (as well as boosting enemy damage by 300%+ and making specters thrown out go hostile on the players of course)

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Just now, SneakyErvin said:

Yes, but just being sponges doesnt add any challenge, it adds tedium.

Actually this is not really the case. Bullet sponges only "add tedium" if the previous case is that enemies are already dangerous/fighting back, but in Warframe, they are not, because we have ways to shut that down quickly. Things having HP and being able to fight back makes the game more tactical and requires you to actually strategise in some way, as you can't just pump things full of lead and get rid of them immediately.

However, between Warframes who scale endlessly (Octavia, Revenant) and those that completely shut enemies down (Banshee, Vauban, Limbo), no amount of HP is going to make Warframe difficulty, nor is any change in the enemy's AI.

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Just now, --Q--FSK41 said:

It was always and will always be possible to kill enemies at high level with slash procs that are buffed by mods and other things such as viral. It is in the nature of Slash as it bypasses armour

Exactly why scaling isn't the solution.

1 minute ago, --Q--FSK41 said:

,the old scaling would help because now any melee can kill most level 9999 far to easy,its like I cough at them and they die,

That wasn't the scaling changes. All melee got a dramatic buff in 2.9 and further buffed with the status changes that allow us to exceed 100% status chance as well as the damage multiplying nature of Viral.

3 minutes ago, --Q--FSK41 said:

,also giving a cap to shield gating or at least something like a extending timer so you it looses reliability over time (for example needs 10 seconds cooldown and gives 0.1 seconds protection after u used it 100 times) would make the game harder over time.

I mean, sure for the frames that use their shields to survive high level content, which is to say none of them really. Again, people were pushing these boundaries before scaling was adjusted and it was never a matter of difficulty, just patience and risking a trade ban if you stayed in mission too long and a few minutes googling a build. You have an overly nostalgic view of how old scaling worked and how hard it was to get around. Fact is, DE allows us way too much freedom with our powers and builds. As long as armor bypass is a thing, armor won't be a challenge, same with shields and as long as we can apply massive amounts of damage resistance to our frames or in some cases make them literally invulnerable, not to mention 6+ revives with proper gear, death won't be an obstacle. As long as we have access to infinite energy/health/ammo/shields via our gear as well as meat shields, which in turn can buff us further and we can reach damage multipliers that exceed the damage cap of the game, reverting armor scaling will do nothing. A new solution is needed or people need to except that Warframe is not intended to have significant late game challenge.

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6 minutes ago, Rapid said:

Unclear what this means:

I guess my main questions is: Can a player taxi a friend(s) to Hard Mode Mission if they don't have every node completed? Or will they be locked out in an arbitration situation? I am personally worried that some clan-members or friends cannot join me on Hard Mode runs if they don't have the starchart completely mastered.

 

You can't get a taxi to Arbitrations. I don't think you'll be able to get a taxi here.

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I am glad that the rewards are just cosmetic things and not some new weapons that would make people demand hard hard mode.

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vor 7 Minuten schrieb KIREEK:

pump the breaks compadre

hold on

You have to understand that most players, even pre lvl 5 lich missions, need help so that the missions don't drag on, you can see this because they will look or host murmur farm, if they don't host and simply jump into a mission, it's likely they may end up alone, there are players that want the gamemode similar to arbitration, sorties and lich missions, but they can't handle them

The game obviously punishes you from doing, missions will take more time, you use more time in recruit chat, you get less, you farm less and the grind increases, a snowball effect

You can see this because they are unable to kill, don't understand objectives or worse, made no improvements into making garantees that the mission succeed.

Your kill count isn't amazing and there can be several reasons for that, maybe the teams are constantly to competitive, maybe you chosen not to kill, maybe you support others, maybe there is difficulty in killing them *wink wink*

Regardless, you put effort in completing missions right? at 75% completion rate and an insane 20% quit rate i find that maybe you are asking something way above the competence of the general playerbase, including you.

Remember, the game has been becoming easier, you can self revive, parkour improved, operator mode exists, others can revive you in interceptions, riven mods exist, warframes are hardly 1 trick pony and often do several things, so you're not suffering the consequences of the old warframe game, you quit 1 in 5 missions and you're far from the minimally acceptable 85% completion, so telling that you need harder content to players who do better is a tad strange.

My sugestion is simple, get consistant good results 1st, with randoms, with clanmates, in solo, with different missions, make sure that any combination that the game trows at you isn't to hard.

Funny you checked my account. I ll tell you how I came to  have a 20% quit rate : Speedruns (if the tile is too big abort),Old features,Getting good maps for Defense/ Survival etc etc etc. 

My Kill Count is not amazing,this is true but I can give u numerious screenshots and proves I did long and hard missions,my Sqaud was most likely the first Sqaud(I say squad on purpose coz there was one ivara,  feature guy that did it first) that reach 560 waves on Defense. I don't have the highest kill count because I often played Support Frames Such as Loki in old Defense, Banshee in Survivals, Nekros etc. 

If u question  my possibility or knowledge I can tell you I am well aware of what I am doing.

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2 minutes ago, VentiGlondi said:

I am glad that the rewards are just cosmetic things and not some new weapons that would make people demand hard hard mode.

  

1 hour ago, [DE]Rebecca said:

What it is:
 Higher Difficulty Series of content that rewards exclusive cosmetic decorations, emotes, and mastery.


Mastery is attached to it, so that means weapons likely

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4 minutes ago, (NSW)Matt-S said:

Actually this is not really the case. Bullet sponges only "add tedium" if the previous case is that enemies are already dangerous/fighting back, but in Warframe, they are not, because we have ways to shut that down quickly. Things having HP and being able to fight back makes the game more tactical and requires you to actually strategise in some way, as you can't just pump things full of lead and get rid of them immediately.

However, between Warframes who scale endlessly (Octavia, Revenant) and those that completely shut enemies down (Banshee, Vauban, Limbo), no amount of HP is going to make Warframe difficulty, nor is any change in the enemy's AI.

Actually, allow me to reword this.

Bullet sponges only add tedium when things do not functionally change between low HP and high HP. This is actually the case in Warframe, as regardless of if the enemy is level 1 or level 9,999, we have ways to completely shut them down with various crowd control.

However, assuming we get rid of this (so crowd control, while effective, does not completely disable the enemy's ability to do anything), bullet sponges are important for the game as they allow enemies to fight back. If enemies have a HP level that they cannot fight back at all, there is no challenge, but now if it takes 10 bullets to kill them, this is a good thing as you will now need to use strategies to overcome them.

In other words, things need HP that allows them to survive against us, at least for a small period of time. This makes it so that there is more to consider than "how do I kill things as fast as possible?", as you'll need to make sure you're able to survive against them, while also giving you an incentive to actually make sure you are as strong as possible too.

Right now in Warframe, most builds are completely overkill and things like range, speed and other parameters are much more important than damage.

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Posted (edited)
4 minutes ago, VentiGlondi said:

I am glad that the rewards are just cosmetic things and not some new weapons that would make people demand hard hard mode.

There's mastery involved. It's no different.

1 minute ago, (XB1)TheWayOfWisdom said:

  Mastery is attached to it, so that means weapons likely

Not necessarily. It could be tied to node completion like in normal mode.

Edited by Jarriaga
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Just now, (NSW)Matt-S said:

Actually this is not really the case. Bullet sponges only "add tedium" if the previous case is that enemies are already dangerous/fighting back, but in Warframe, they are not, because we have ways to shut that down quickly. Things having HP and being able to fight back makes the game more tactical and requires you to actually strategise in some way, as you can't just pump things full of lead and get rid of them immediately.

However, between Warframes who scale endlessly (Octavia, Revenant) and those that completely shut enemies down (Banshee, Vauban, Limbo), no amount of HP is going to make Warframe difficulty, nor is any change in the enemy's AI.

I said "if they are just sponges". If there are other mechanics involved the spongeyness helps, but alone it will never add anything but tediousness. And mobs in WF lack those extra things, so the sponge just results in drawn out TTK. That is why DE needs to introduce new units that helps the enemy survive while putting some form of pressure on us. DR units, dispell units, negation units, cleanse units etc. so we cant rely on our things working at an optimum in all situations. Eximus units would be perfect for this if they decide to rework them. And ancient healers for instance should have their damage reduction effecting themselves aswell, making them far more prominent on the battlefield since they no longer die to a stray shot or a harsh sneeze.

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vor 1 Minute schrieb SneakyErvin:

I said "if they are just sponges". If there are other mechanics involved the spongeyness helps, but alone it will never add anything but tediousness. And mobs in WF lack those extra things, so the sponge just results in drawn out TTK. That is why DE needs to introduce new units that helps the enemy survive while putting some form of pressure on us. DR units, dispell units, negation units, cleanse units etc. so we cant rely on our things working at an optimum in all situations. Eximus units would be perfect for this if they decide to rework them. And ancient healers for instance should have their damage reduction effecting themselves aswell, making them far more prominent on the battlefield since they no longer die to a stray shot or a harsh sneeze.

Can we just agree that they should implement the old scaling for at least THIS mode alongside other ,,mechanics'' to make enemies harder?

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1 minute ago, --Q--FSK41 said:

Funny you checked my account. I ll tell you how I came to  have a 20% quit rate : Speedruns (if the tile is too big abort),Old features,Getting good maps for Defense/ Survival etc etc etc. 

My Kill Count is not amazing,this is true but I can give u numerious screenshots and proves I did long and hard missions,my Sqaud was most likely the first Sqaud(I say squad on purpose coz there was one ivara,  feature guy that did it first) that reach 560 waves on Defense. I don't have the highest kill count because I often played Support Frames Such as Loki in old Defense, Banshee in Survivals, Nekros etc. 

If u question  my possibility or knowledge I can tell you I am well aware of what I am doing.

Yes, but hard mode isn't going to be a single mission, it's the entire starchart and rewards may require you to replay the areas several times, solo possibly, outside your clan mates, playing with randoms who strugle easier missions, what you going to do? quit the mission? likely. Fail the mission? probably.

The account gives an overall look, doing something bad once won't matter much, everyone makes mistakes, even me, but it does reveal how frequent it is, bugs don't cover for all of that

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Posted (edited)
1 minute ago, SneakyErvin said:

I said "if they are just sponges". If there are other mechanics involved the spongeyness helps, but alone it will never add anything but tediousness. And mobs in WF lack those extra things, so the sponge just results in drawn out TTK. That is why DE needs to introduce new units that helps the enemy survive while putting some form of pressure on us. DR units, dispell units, negation units, cleanse units etc. so we cant rely on our things working at an optimum in all situations. Eximus units would be perfect for this if they decide to rework them. And ancient healers for instance should have their damage reduction effecting themselves aswell, making them far more prominent on the battlefield since they no longer die to a stray shot or a harsh sneeze.

Unfortunately, mechanics which shut us down tend to be extremely negatively viewed upon, even though I agree that the enemies need these tools.

That being said, better AI specifically won't help the enemies, since as mentioned before, we have ways to just instantly shut them down so they can't do anything. We are far too strong for any AI adjustment to work, and it baffles me that people keep asking for it when we have map-wide disablers ourselves.

Edited by (NSW)Matt-S
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2 minutes ago, xRufus7x said:

Exactly why scaling isn't the solution.

That wasn't the scaling changes. All melee got a dramatic buff in 2.9 and further buffed with the status changes that allow us to exceed 100% status chance as well as the damage multiplying nature of Viral.

I mean, sure for the frames that use their shields to survive high level content, which is to say none of them really. Again, people were pushing these boundaries before scaling was adjusted and it was never a matter of difficulty, just patience and risking a trade ban if you stayed in mission too long and a few minutes googling a build. You have an overly nostalgic view of how old scaling worked and how hard it was to get around. Fact is, DE allows us way too much freedom with our powers and builds. As long as armor bypass is a thing, armor won't be a challenge, same with shields and as long as we can apply massive amounts of damage resistance to our frames or in some cases make them literally invulnerable, not to mention 6+ revives with proper gear, death won't be an obstacle. As long as we have access to infinite energy/health/ammo/shields via our gear as well as meat shields, which in turn can buff us further and we can reach damage multipliers that exceed the damage cap of the game, reverting armor scaling will do nothing. A new solution is needed or people need to except that Warframe is not intended to have significant late game challenge.

Perhaps whatever this new feature may offer, or for future implements like this, it could impose restrictions on whatever equipment is available to us (e.g. Disabled gear item use, impaired weapon/ability strength and damage, warframe restrictions, etc). We could also impose these restrictions to ourselves by using substantially weaker builds than ones that might just rely too much on overkill; a means to create challenges we impose on ourselves. 

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Gerade eben schrieb KIREEK:

Yes, but hard mode isn't going to be a single mission, it's the entire starchart and rewards may require you to replay the areas several times, solo possibly, outside your clan mates, playing with randoms who strugle easier missions, what you going to do? quit the mission? likely. Fail the mission? probably.

The account gives an overall look, doing something bad once won't matter much, everyone makes mistakes, even me, but it does reveal how frequent it is, bugs don't cover for all of that

I am not sure what we are arguing about here tbh. I am not saying I am a perfect player but saying a quit rate shows how good someone is is like saying a 100% win rate from capture spamming makes a  good player

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6 minutes ago, (XB1)TheWayOfWisdom said:

  


Mastery is attached to it, so that means weapons likely

I wouldn't jump to conclusions there. You get a tiny amount of mastery for each star chart node you complete. These could simply be considered as new nodes for mastery purposes.

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Posted (edited)
20 minutes ago, Urlan said:

You get mastery rank for the current nodes, its pretty piddly to be frank.

It is enough to get you quite a few ranks and if the relays are available to unlock again you will get a descent chunk there. Plus people are still complaining about the missing MR from the founder items.

 

20 minutes ago, Urlan said:

Teshin is about having us do things that are to push us in being better warriors, how is doing this anything related to that?

It is literally harder content. Fight stronger enemies, become stronger yourself.

 

20 minutes ago, Urlan said:

Conclave provides progression albeit weak and non-productive within its own context despite being malus mods

Still, you will get more progression for the MR towards the standard game, even if the amounts are small, and like Teshin has given out trophies in the past. Quick Steel event, several Conclave exclusive cosmetics. Dude likes his status symbols.

20 minutes ago, Urlan said:

Honestly, I had just hoped more from his characterization since War Within.

I mean, we really don't know enough either way with the limited information we have but this doesn't really seem like an opportunity to heavily characterize any character.

 

20 minutes ago, Urlan said:

 but I see no reason for this to be its own thing, when Arbitration is right there and cosmetics could be acquired from their Vitus shop if it doesn't offer some actual method for betterment.

Unique cosmetics, higher base level starting point towards the end of the star chart, no special characteristics like nightmare mode modifiers or arbitration drones/death mechanic. People have been asking for ways to play the game at higher levels for years without anything more complex added to it. This is meant to fulfill that request. If that is enough for you, well that will have to be a decision you will have to make on your own.

Edited by xRufus7x

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vor 3 Minuten schrieb KIREEK:

Yes, but hard mode isn't going to be a single mission, it's the entire starchart and rewards may require you to replay the areas several times, solo possibly, outside your clan mates, playing with randoms who strugle easier missions, what you going to do? quit the mission? likely. Fail the mission? probably.

The account gives an overall look, doing something bad once won't matter much, everyone makes mistakes, even me, but it does reveal how frequent it is, bugs don't cover for all of that

What happens when your randoms are bad? You just carry them.

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