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Public Test Weekend #3: Update Notes (Deimos: Arcana Preview).


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1 minute ago, -QueenUnicorn- said:

All my solo runs where afk/macro free runs that lasted into the 2 hour range, honestly its more of a kick in the face to assume that all long runs are afk/macro based and is honestly such a dishonest thing to propagate that ideology. To be frank it #*!%ing horrid to think that DE actually thinks that any long run is only done by people who are afk/macro abusing and shows a complete disconnect from their player base. Dishonest and Disgusting 

I don't think they're disconnected at all. 

This is pretty malicious if anything. They're trying to shift the blame into other players so people will try to blame each other for this nerf instead of criticizing them for doing this nerf. 

Its already happening on reddit with threads of people blaming "afk macroers" when it's nearly impossible to afk macro Odin for example. 

Its easier to say "We nerfed this because you people took it too far" 

Everyone understand that and sides with dev side rather than say 

"We nerfed it because getting 100-200 SE per run is too good so needs to be nerfed" 

Most people will get mad at this because "no fun allowed" "Grindframe", etc. 

 

Pretty disapointed overall 

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6 minutes ago, -QueenUnicorn- said:

All my solo runs where afk/macro free runs that lasted into the 2 hour range, honestly its more of a kick in the face to assume that all long runs are afk/macro based and is honestly such a dishonest thing to propagate that ideology. To be frank it #*!%ing horrid to think that DE actually thinks that any long run is only done by people who are afk/macro abusing and shows a complete disconnect from their player base. Dishonest and Disgusting 

I think you are kinda overreacting, I'm also a endurance player and also I really hate AFK-macro-cheese. They know wich one of use uses macro and who doesn't, AFK macro farm is dead because the acolytes will wipe your ass if you try to go in that direction :)

Edited by vanaukas
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Seems like Spectral Scream could use some of that Airburst additional damage per target hit, now that it can chain out a bit. Remember that Chroma is trading his weapon usage (which deal way more damage more quickly) and needing to stand 10 meters next to a crowd of enemies, while constantly draining energy.

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1 hour ago, Caramello said:

Drop the bamboozle act with steel essence cool? You know very well people are doing legitimate farm for SE now in Odin since you "nerfed" Ophelia, no "afk macro" situation going on there, is technically impossible by the nature of the mission itself, active play on interception is a requirement.

You could have done all the research and number crunching in the world, and i bet there was no intention to ever go above 3 per alert and 2 per acolyte. Its all about kuva nerfing, and we all know it. (Expect more riven complaining on the horizon btw, you refuse to make your cashcow feature any better for years now, and you just nerfed the only thing that alleviated the situation for the riven people, i dont think it will sit right with them).

The best part of it all, is that you say you want to disincentivize long play or afk´ing, but all you gonna do is make people do even longer runs to farm for acolyte spawns, or even afk while waiting for them to show up once they are done with their daily alerts (this is warframe after all, it will not sit right with people having to farm 7 days worth of alerts to get the operator suit or a frigging umbra forma, there will always be tryharding) the difference is, they gonna do the same old long runs, and get a fraction of steel essence, i wonder who will have to hear the complaints about it 🤣

 

P R E A C H. This man laying down the truth.

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Chroma:

  • In addition to Chroma being able to select elements in mission real-time (the biggest change), Chroma’s selectable element HUD now uses colour coding in addition to icon coding. 

  • IS IT POSSIBLE - Casting Elemental ward in selected element to get that element buff and then changing to another element to get that element buff with both getting stacked
                                Like Casting in Heat to Get Extra health Then casting in Electricity to get extra shields bonus?
     

 

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1 hour ago, [DE]Rebecca said:

This week on PC! 

Must be today since tomorrow is Friday and players will complain of playing with bugs thru weekend spoiling their weekend.

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vor 1 Stunde schrieb [DE]Rebecca:

In our view, it’s better to reward broader diverse play than hyper reward idle strategies, and the stats confirm this to be the case. On paper the absolute Top 1% of missions will see less Steel Essence per hour (i.e the single strategy AFK-Macro-run), every other mission strategy will see more.

Thank you DE. This is what we needed.

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Great changes all around, and some of these responses to player feedback, such as damage type buffs on certain Theorums, and especially the changes to Nekros, are pretty clever ways to address issues without just tweaking numbers! I think this will be a very solid update now.

I still have a couple of concerns from the test cluster weekend, namely:

  • Chroma's Spectral Scream Augment could really use some love, the extra projectile damage is quite low and would benefit from some form of buff. Maybe something similar to one of the changes you made for the Theorums, where hitting an enemy with the Augment's projectile also makes them weak to weapon fire of the element they were hit with?
  • Bone Widow changes are great (particularly the energy economy/vacuum changes) but I still feel like it needs some QoL stuff in the "oomph" department, like
    • Giving its exalted weapon some melee combos
    • Some kind of mechanic that better encourages and rewards wading into the fray, like innate Rage-like energy regen or innate berserker on the exalted blade. This would also give it a bit more flavor vs. the Voidrig

I'm definitely willing to give Bone Widow a fresh slate and another look after these changes, though! Looking forward to the patch.

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5 minutes ago, DRAG0NFALC0N said:

Currently, higher-level players with the right build can farm ~200+ Steel Essence in 1.5 hours vs. about 200 in a week, MAYBE with DE's new change, and that's with intentional and far more extensive play-time. Change is great for casual and new players who likely cannot or do not have time to farm SE, and I applaud that part of the change. For everyone else who farmed it, it is undoubtedly an extreme nerf. Simple as that. 

While yes it is technically a nerf do you really think the current farming meta is appropriate?

First of all I got 450 essence in a 2 hr mission last night. That's 400K kuva in 2 hrs. This is grossly unbalanced. 

The new system has acolytes spawning in all missions on steel path. Compared to the previous system if you clear all mission nodes you'll have received a minimum of like 450 essence compared to, what, 40-50 right now?

Steel Path was never intended to be a meta farming mode but it turned into one due to people finding a way to exploit the system so you could essentially farm in 2 hrs what it would take days/weeks to get normally.

The new system is a major buff to the intended method of acquiring essence but is a nerf to the meta-exploiting. I really don't see this as a bad thing (I do see it as unfortunate because who doesn't like stockpiling millions of kuva?).

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1 minute ago, Leqesai said:

While yes it is technically a nerf do you really think the current farming meta is appropriate?

First of all I got 450 essence in a 2 hr mission last night. That's 400K kuva in 2 hrs. This is grossly unbalanced. 

The new system has acolytes spawning in all missions on steel path. Compared to the previous system if you clear all mission nodes you'll have received a minimum of like 450 essence compared to, what, 40-50 right now?

Steel Path was never intended to be a meta farming mode but it turned into one due to people finding a way to exploit the system so you could essentially farm in 2 hrs what it would take days/weeks to get normally.

The new system is a major buff to the intended method of acquiring essence but is a nerf to the meta-exploiting. I really don't see this as a bad thing (I do see it as unfortunate because who doesn't like stockpiling millions of kuva?).

I don't understand why is so hard to get that

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41 minutes ago, ReaverKane said:

A few were added to the rewards on the new bounties, and supposedly, yeah the drop rate has increased.

Excellent thank you for the info.

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1 hour ago, [DE]Rebecca said:

Increased ammo pool from 7 to 9

Could we have that for the bramma please? I think an ammo pool of 7 or God forbid 9 would make it better while keeping it in line with what you want it to be

 

1 hour ago, [DE]Rebecca said:

Shield Maiden

Is this a channel ability of just a one time energy cost to deploy/retract it?

 

Also last, honestly worst thing you missed: MORE INFESTED K DRIVE PARTS PLEASE. Idk about every thing else, but that is the highlight for me xD

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Just now, vanaukas said:

I don't understand why is so hard to get that

People are highly resistant to changes they feel affect a system that is currently beneficial to them. Even if the changes are inherently for the better people will get pissy about it. Its like going to the store and getting a loaf of bread that is mistakenly marked at 90% off instead of 10% off. Most people will grab the bread and not say anything about it. People tend to seek out ways to beat the system.

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Thank you for all the revisions. They look great and I can't wait to test it on the public build asap. Thanks for listening to all the feedback.

That being said, I do have to express my disappointment with the Steel path (non)changes. 

I really DO want to belive that statistics and data that you have show what you are saying they show... But unfortunately it AGAIN has that bad optics that I wish is not true.
(Same as with the Xoris and a lots of other dramas before.)

When Rivens became a thing you promised they will not affect Warframes, but they do and you did nothing about it.
Everytime when something does affect rivens (Xoris, Kuva from SP, etc.), you do changes that do NOT benefit players.
These changes always punish people and I could respect it, if you were upfront about it. But hiding it behind stats and data and literal lies (like when you "explained" why the Xoris needed nerf) is just in a reaaaaly bad taste. 

The "changes" to SP will change nothing. People will still afk for hours to spawn acolytes. The only change will be that now people will get less SE (less kuva).
Players who grinded the SE already have it. They are already stockpiled and if "kuva for hour" on SP will be bad they will just move on to the old ways, while people who are not willing to pay money for "ridiculus Jawsword statstick 5000p rivens" will lose the way to get high amounts of kuva -> roll their own rivens.

Normal players who are not exploiting the LOOTBOX of Warframe are punished again.

I sincerelly hope that I am wrong about at least half of this.

The point I am trying to make is that the need for Steelpath changes will not be solved by nerfing it. I can promise you that this problem will come up in another part of the game later, because the problem is the BUG that Rivens affect Warframes.

While this is still part of the play, there will always be situations like this.

Rivens are a problem and need to be fixed. Also they were meant to be a help to weak weapons, while they only push meta weapons even beyond super saiyan. If you fix rivens, you will magicly fix all the problems.

Edited by Cerikus
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58 minutes ago, [DE]Rebecca said:

Chroma:

  • In addition to Chroma being able to select elements in mission real-time (the biggest change), Chroma’s selectable element HUD now uses colour coding in addition to icon coding. 
  • Increased Spectral Scream damage from 200 to 400 Damage Per Second at Max Rank. This, combined with 100% Status Chance and Chaining should lead to some more deadly or useful scenarios, especially since you can use all 4 elements now!

Can we have Chroma starting element on missions works like Equinox day/night form? so who trade his 1 with Helminth can still use different elements by the emissive colors.

Edited by Kadesfy
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42 minutes ago, [DE]Rebecca said:

Arcanes: Theorem and Residual 

The Theorem and Residual Arcanes were the most contested items on the Test Cluster over the weekend (well, second most next to Bonewidow but it was close)! We have made a concerted effort to reset how they work in context (mainly where the AoE spawns) and rebalance. The next steps for us are receiving feedback on the newer flow and newer stats for these upon release!

Notable changes include:
 

  • Residual Arcanes will now leave their AoE at the position of the enemy at the time of death. You will see a ring on the ground (with upgraded FX) that you can enter to begin your Residual/Theorem buffing process. This means you will not need to search for corpses that may have been blown off in the distance -- instead, you should have an easier and faster means of finding these AOE rings.
  • Significantly increased the active Duration of your stacks after leaving the AoE (from 5 to 20 seconds). 
  • Theorem Arcanes now go up to 5 Ranks with Stats to reflect this. 


 

THEOREM INFECTION 

Before: Standing in a zone created by a Residual Arcane increases damage of companions and summoned allies within 60m by 4%/s stacking up to 15x. Effect persists for 20s upon leaving the zone. 

After: Standing in a zone created by a Residual Arcane increases damage of companions and summoned allies within 90m by 24%/s stacking up to 15x. Effect persists for 20s upon leaving the zone. 


 

THEOREM CONTAGION 

Before: Standing in a zone created by a Residual Arcane creates a globe that orbits the player every 2s. The globes will strike the nearest enemy within 5m dealing 100 damage and applying a Status Effect. Globes will persist for 8s upon leaving the zone. 

After: Standing in a zone created by a Residual Arcane creates a globe that orbits the player every 2s. The globes will strike the nearest enemy within 15m dealing 150 damage and increasing their vulnerability to the globe’s damage type by 200% for 6s.  Globes will persist for 30s upon leaving the zone. 


 

THEOREM DEMULCENT 

Before: Standing in a zone created by a Residual Arcane increases weapon damage by 4%/s stacking up to 15x. Effect persists for 5s upon leaving the zone.

After: Standing in a zone created by a Residual Arcane increases weapon damage by 12%/s stacking up to 15x. Effect persists for 20s upon leaving the zone.

 

OTHER ARCANE CHANGES:

  • Theorem Infection increased from +90% to +360% Companion damage at max rank and stacks
  • Residual Boils spawns cysts on the ground inside the trigger instead of on the enemy corpse.
  • Residual Shock now fires Lighting from a spike instead of the enemy corpse.

While that is definitely nice to hear, the mechanic is still far from enjoyable and requires a lot of effort to max them out.
Not to mention the need to pair a warframe with specific weapons in order to use Theorem effects at all.

I would suggest (as I did in the public test) to combine the Theorem and Residual effects together and make them available as kitgun arcanes. The result would be one arcane for each Theorem effect, with all 4 elements selectable.
I mean, the only difference between the Residual arcanes is the element and damage amount. I don't see why they couldn't be fused into one and use a selector, since Hystrix already does a very similar thing.

Furthermore, Theorem Contagion's damage simply will not matter on level 25+ missions. By that time any other modded weapon will perform much better and be much faster.
It should be % based instead of flat damage. Even something as low as 10%-15% would be much better.

1 hour ago, [DE]Rebecca said:

Bounty Changes:
Pacing and bugs for the new bounty types have been reviewed, with some specifics to call out:

Codename: Polyp Juggernaut Bounty:

  • Decreased frequency of random Juggernaut sniffing by over 50% to improve pacing. 
  • The Juggernaut moves faster. 
  • Increased the likeliness of a ‘truffle’ being closer to improve pacing 
  • General pacing improvements. 
  • Enemies now spawn on your Polyp Juggernaut’s position, making battle phase more engaging 

Codename: Purifier Bounty:

  • Purify Cell Carrier spawn rates increased to improve pacing. 

Codename: Fluid Sac Encounter:

  • Reduced ranged enemy presence, increased enemy density and reduced delay between reinforcements. Increase sac explosion radius from 10 to 13 meters. 

That sounds pretty good overall, will have to try it out to confirm.
I'm mainly concerned about the Purifier Bounty, as the incline i've seen from players is to just carry the Purify Cell around until they find a fissure, which leads to an easy loss on the bonus.

1 hour ago, [DE]Rebecca said:

General Necramech Changes

  • Necramechs (Bonewidow and Voidrig) now have a built in vacuum!
  • Enemy Necramechs now have the ‘Lich’ treatment with vulnerability to Status Effects!
  • Increased Shared Affinity Range in Landscape missions to 250 meters from 50 to assist with all things levelling on Landscapes (when Necramechs in non-Landscape missions come, this will of course change the levelling dynamic). 
  • Would be nice if we could get the full vacuum effect from sentinel mods, along with Animal Instinct and aura mods effects.
  • Any chance you'll review enemy Voidrigs? Currently their Storm Shroud makes it nearly impossible to kill without dying multiple times, since there is no other strategy than to receive damage in order to inflict it.
    Also the ability often refreshes as soon as they become vulnerable.
  • Does the increased affinity range apply to wildlife capture?
1 hour ago, [DE]Rebecca said:

Exalted Ironbride 

  • Increased the damage overall for Exalted Ironbride since its attack speed is slower by design. 
  • Less energy is now required to sustain Exalted Ironbride.
  • Slam attacks are better performing and more intuitive.

Any chance the attacks will have a higher mobility or forward movement?

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1 minute ago, Leqesai said:

People are highly resistant to changes they feel affect a system that is currently beneficial to them. Even if the changes are inherently for the better people will get pissy about it. Its like going to the store and getting a loaf of bread that is mistakenly marked at 90% off instead of 10% off. Most people will grab the bread and not say anything about it. People tend to seek out ways to beat the system.

What a wonderful world

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19 minutes ago, DRAG0NFALC0N said:

Currently, higher-level players with the right build can farm ~200+ Steel Essence in 1.5 hours vs. about 200 in a week, MAYBE with DE's new change, and that's with intentional and far more extensive play-time. Change is great for casual and new players who likely cannot or do not have time to farm SE, and I applaud that part of the change. For everyone else who farmed it, it is undoubtedly an extreme nerf. Simple as that. 

Even for casuals, because probly will be 10min survival or 10 waves in defense + acolyte

Steel path will be complete dead in 2 weeks after the update, take a screenshot

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11 minutes ago, Leqesai said:

While yes it is technically a nerf do you really think the current farming meta is appropriate?

I never stated one way or another. It honestly does not matter to me. I farmed it a little bit, but not to a great extent, and never planned to. I was merely pointing out that it is an extreme nerf to how efficiently it can be acquired currently. A factual statement, that is all (unless otherwise disproven after this change). Thus, it is not "technically a nerf" it is an extreme nerf. 

Fine by me either, DE makes the rules. 

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AFK/Macro and Odin in the same sentence is the most stupid and poorest excuse dear DE, the way an organized group farms Odin and the way the mission itself is structured i can guarantee you that doesn't allow for that so called afk'ing/macroing thing.

You got pissed off that another good farm was found after the changes to Ophelia and the community outsmarted you end of story.

You want to just drop the hammer on the best way to farm kuva but you should ask yourself : why people are so obsessed with it ?

Because the way your dear riven RNG layers and rolling costs work mean it's hundreds thousand kuva into a gambling machine, whose original purpose was to give more revenue and boost less used guns...( of course you can unroll or get a godroll within 10 tries but i bet that would just be like that 1% you mentioned above )

All those layers of rng are surely helping, because when you roll negatives such NEGATIVE damage, ms etc it's surely gonna be an improvement. yeah right.

How about you start addressing the kuva costs for rolling and remove some kind of bi_tch negatives like neg dmg/cc/cd/ms, and reduce the costs from 3500 to 1750?

How about you significantly boost the gains from Siphons and Floods? 650'ish kuva for a siphon without a booster what kind of joke is that?

For years people have been asking for scaling kuva rewards the longer you stayed in a mission to incentivize a longer run but nooooooo

Or perhaps when more people can afford more rolls you're afraid that rivens with godlike stats will be more common so prices may drop and less people will open their wallets to buy plat ?

Mhhhm

Edited by --RV--arm4geddon-117
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Overall, I think this is a rather solid set of tweaks. I'm personally looking forward to building out each of the weapons and tinkering with the updated weapon mechanics. Bubonico in particular looks like it's going to be more interesting and useful. Ammo economy was certainly an issue on the test build.

The arcane buffs are particularly welcome given the investment required to take advantage of their effects. Major buffs were absolutely needed to keep them from being completely ignored by the player base. I'm still not certain these changes will do it on their own, but on paper they seem far more appealing than before.

One additional bit of feedback: for future test cluster weekends, assuming these continue, can we leave the test cl uster feedback threads open for a little bit after the servers close down? 12-24 hours, perhaps? It would be good to have a little bit more time to compose a coherent response post.

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