Excalibur's Passive isn't impactful or unique enough, compared to today's Zephyr's 150% crit chance in air (and other recent unique passives)

[(PSN)Hopper_Orouk]

I am aware there are a lot of awful pointless passives out there on other Warframes that deserve more attention, but i'm just talking about Excalibur's passive, i know it's not that bad, i never said it was, but i think it's outdated, and in general minor stat boosts as passives belong in more strategic games where you don't have access to a lot of resources and buffs and tremendous damage like in Warframe 

so a 10% sword swing speed and damage boost is not really something you'd notice today in Warframe, when Melee damage is more than enough and melee attack speed is extraordinary fast

Compared to Zephyr's 150% critical chance in the air, is something you can actually notice. 

what i would've hoped, is buffing their stats to match pressure point and Fury, 120% melee damage for swords, and 30% attack speed for swords

this would really improve Excalibur players choice for modding, you have two passive melee mods on you at all times, so you can replace pressure point and melee speed mods on your loadout and go with something else.

this, And/or Make his Exalted blade his own passive like Garuda's talons, and replace His 4 with something else that is still appropriate for a sword Warframe

thoughts?

[Aldain]

I somewhat agree, but at the same time despite being an Excalibur diehard I don't think it really needs anything else...other than maybe for the passive to also effect 2-hand Nikanas.

At most they could increase the bonuses to like...20% tops I'd say, but yeah frames like Loki and Rhino need more help than Excalibur when it comes to passive abilities.

Now if we were talking about how Radial Javelin needs a buff/change I'd say "GOOD GOD YES" because boy is that ability outdated, and it's augment is literally "Make Melee overkill even more" for some reason.

[PsiWarp]

Make it something cool like... block x amount of damage with your melee weapon, once enough the next swing unleashes an exalted blade wave that benefit from melee combo counter.

[(PSN)Madurai-Prime]

So every frame needs a ridiculous stat buff for a passive just because Zephyr has one?

[(PSN)Madurai-Prime]

40 minutes ago, Aldain said:

I somewhat agree, but at the same time despite being an Excalibur diehard I don't think it really needs anything else...other than maybe for the passive to also effect 2-hand Nikanas.

At most they could increase the bonuses to like...20% tops I'd say, but yeah frames like Loki and Rhino need more help than Excalibur when it comes to passive abilities.

Now if we were talking about how Radial Javelin needs a buff/change I'd say "GOOD GOD YES" because boy is that ability outdated, and it's augment is literally "Make Melee overkill even more" for some reason.

It's not "for some reason":

"Excalibur is a sword-themed Warframe." Straight from the wiki.

[taiiat]

of what Excalibur currently has as a Passive, i'd just extend it to cover all Melee Categories that are a single Weapon and are generally Bladed in nature. yes, all of them.
and then add on Excalibur has +10 Degrees of default Blocking Angle on all Melee Weapons.

39 minutes ago, PsiWarp said:

Make it something cool like... block x amount of damage with your melee weapon, once enough the next swing unleashes an exalted blade wave that benefit from melee combo counter.

i'd buy that for a dollar.

[(PSN)Hopper_Orouk]

23 minutes ago, (PSN)Madurai-Prime said:

So every frame needs a ridiculous stat buff for a passive just because Zephyr has one?

To some extent, yes.

I was mainly comparing how Today, DE is putting good care when designing new passives, compared to Warframes that never get attention these days like excalibur.

And i talk about excalibur not every frame in this thread, because he's one of my favourites

For example, lavos literally has a mod-able version of Saryn's 25% status duration.

And Wukong has 3 extra get out of jail free with 5 random buffs.

Atlas gets extra rubble armor on top of his innate primed sure footed.

All these are recently reworked or recently released frames

Notice the pattern?

 

[vegetosayajin]

27 minutes ago, (PSN)Madurai-Prime said:

So every frame needs a ridiculous stat buff for a passive just because Zephyr has one?

YES!

 

[(XBOX)C11H22O11]

23 minutes ago, (PSN)Madurai-Prime said:

So every frame needs a ridiculous stat buff for a passive just because Zephyr has one?

I don't think they mean overpowered, just something that helps him and it's noticable. Adding something else on top of the damage up wouldn't hurt.

Titania had a trampoline and they added healing to her passive that was great

[(PSN)Hopper_Orouk]

57 minutes ago, PsiWarp said:

Make it something cool like... block x amount of damage with your melee weapon, once enough the next swing unleashes an exalted blade wave that benefit from melee combo counter.

Reminds of avenging justice mod for silva and aegis.

But yes that's also one of my issues with this passive.

A passive is something that you should not use manually, but you can notice and see it happen.

This is why i can appreciate something like gara's passive radial blind, because i can actually see it happen, and it comes so natural, it's cool

[Hierarch777]

What I would do:

-Have the current passive affect all blade-type weapons (swords, dual swords, nikanas, zweihander nikanas & rapiers) and maybe increase the damage and attack speed bonus to 20%. 

-Add an override to blocking angle, giving him 360° blocking angle with weapon types listed above. Visually, he could have new animations for each side he blocks (left, right, front & back). 

Excal is a sword frame, and you should get rewarded for building around his thematic. 

[(XBOX)Apoll0 666]

3 hours ago, (PSN)Hopper_Orouk said:

what i would've hoped, is buffing their stats to match pressure point and Fury, 120% melee damage for swords, and 30% attack speed for swords

 

How about no?... He shouldn't have a passive that matches 2 max rank mods. I will say excaliburs passive is a tad underwhelming but that's because it doesn't need change. The better and more well-designed warframes usually have crappy passives that offsets their well rounded/powerful ability kit. Take a look at Mesa's passive, she's one of the most powerful frames and yet her passives are kinda dumb and useless to some extent. Excalibur is nicely balanced and very well rounded so he doesn't need much of a neat powerful passive. I'm not saying his passive isn't underwhelming but still, if I were to suggest a new passive for excalibur it'd be something along the lines of "The first strike from a melee on an enemy does 1.5x damage and counts for 5 combo counter hits" or something along the lines, people in this thread are confusing "swordsmen" with "art of the blade ninja". His name is literally Excalibur.

[Zeddypanda]

I think a good passive influences how you play the frame. Nezha, Zephyr (not the crit), and Limbo are really good examples on this. Nezha's passive isn't strong or anything, but the slide speed is just enough that you almost entirely stop bullet jumping.

Excal's passive does more or less what it's supposed to for my sake. I never play him without a sword.

[Teridax68]

While I can agree that Excalibur's passive needn't be massively strong, I can also agree that it could easily be made more appreciable than just a permanent, minor stat boost. Even something as basic as "melee kills give you X% bonus melee attack speed for Y seconds" would likely feel more interesting, and give Excalibur everything he'd want from his current passive.

[Guybrush88]

well.... at least its not as bad as Rhino's passive...

[Soy77]

I agree that excalibur's passive is not impactful at all. But i actually don't mind. It still suits his theme as a sword frame.

Some other passives on the other hand... Gentleman above me mentioned rhino, which is just an extra step to a free move inside the game. Some already mentioned about mesa: don't carry the most OP thing inside this game to get whopping extra 50 health. Which I'm sure will be very useful since mesa is such a tank! A health monster! A damage sponge! Sarcasm ends, It sends confusing message about what kind of frame she is.

Excalibur is the sword frame. His passive might not send a strong message, but at least it send a clear massage.

[RazerXPrime]

Warframes have passives?

[(XBOX)Ampathetiic]

32 minutes ago, Soy77 said:

Which I'm sure will be very useful since mesa is such a tank! A health monster! A damage sponge!

The crazy part is that she is (not a health monster, but a tank and damage sponge), with some of the higher EHP values in the game with not too much effort. She has no reason to be as tanky as she is.

Shatter Shield + Adaptation + Pillage = Good luck dying

This goes for a lot of frames, but Mesa has that extra reduction on Shatter Shield, which stacks with Adaptation's DR to give her a few thousand extra EHP. It's quite stupid :/

As for Excalibur's passive: Yea it's not existent. iirc the extra stats are additive with mods, which makes them so minor that they don't make any difference. Idk why people are so scared to give him a better passive, since he has no passive to lose. Even just changing the math for the existing passive would be good, just so it has an existing effect.

[Soy77]

3 hours ago, (XBOX)Regxxh said:

The crazy part is that she is (not a health monster, but a tank and damage sponge), with some of the higher EHP values in the game with not too much effort. She has no reason to be as tanky as she is.

Shatter Shield + Adaptation + Pillage = Good luck dying

This goes for a lot of frames, but Mesa has that extra reduction on Shatter Shield, which stacks with Adaptation's DR to give her a few thousand extra EHP. It's quite stupid :/

i haven't actually tried adding pillage into the mix, but i imagine you'd be perfectly right.
and yeah, you're spot on as well: that pretty awesome combo got nothing to do with health.

mesa's health bonus passive is just one of those thing that i never understand inside warframe. like... "what is it doing there?"
excal's agreeably bad, but at the very least it fits his theme as the sword frame.

[Lutesque]

 

13 hours ago, (PSN)Hopper_Orouk said:

what i would've hoped, is buffing their stats to match pressure point and Fury, 120% melee damage for swords, and 30% attack speed for swords

Nope.... Just give him a new Passive.... Preferably something that has nothing to do with Damage....

13 hours ago, (PSN)Hopper_Orouk said:

thoughts?

To be Honest with you.... Both Excalibur and Zephyr's Passives are a Problem simply because they are just Numerical Damage Buffs... And I'm going to lump my Precious Booben in there aswell....

 

Atleast Zephyr's Old Passive would never get Outdated because it has no Standing in the Power Creep Hot Topic that her new Passive Does.... Even if it was useless....

 

So yeah.... Passives shouldn't be like that to begin with....

12 hours ago, (PSN)Hopper_Orouk said:

And Wukong has 3 extra get out of jail free with 5 random buffs.

Now that's a Passive !!! 😳

12 hours ago, (PSN)Hopper_Orouk said:

This is why i can appreciate something like gara's passive radial blind, because i can actually see it happen, and it comes so natural, it's cool

Probably one of the Best Passives in the Game.... On some Tilesets it's actually pretty Strong....

10 hours ago, Zeddypanda said:

and Limbo

Guaranteed Best Passive in The Game 😈 !!!

5 hours ago, Guybrush88 said:

well.... at least its not as bad as Rhino's passive...

It maybe be bad but Atleast it's Unique-ish (There's actually a Mod that Replicates it for Every Frame)....

What Rhino and Nova need are just Range Buffs to their Passives.... 

 

[Aldain]

6 minutes ago, Lutesque said:

It maybe be bad but Atleast it's Unique-ish (There's actually a Mod that Replicates it for Every Frame)....

Uh...if it can be replicated by a mod I don't think that really qualifies for being unique anymore.

Not to mention that the mod itself is considered a joke due to both doing no real damage AND knockdown/stagger being free on almost every melee weapon (assuming blind swings don't just kill them outright).

Even with more range the whole "Knockdown passive" is kind of antiquated on every frame that has it, I mean Revanent has one too, and it is outright useless because of Mesmer Skin existing.

I'd rather something decent if predictable than bad and "unique" personally.

[Lutesque]

23 minutes ago, Aldain said:

Uh...if it can be replicated by a mod I don't think that really qualifies for being unique anymore.

Because Mod Real Estate is a long running problem in Warframe... Rhino having it for Free makes it unique by Authority of Convenience 😁 !!!

It's sort of the Same Story with Mirage.... She gets the faster Rolling without needing to mod for it.... And that would be nice if Amalgam Barrel Diffusion wasn't so damn good....

27 minutes ago, Aldain said:

I'd rather something decent if predictable than bad and "unique" personally.

LoL.... It's literally the opposite for me 😁 !!! Il take Bad Unique Passives over whatever they did to Zephyr...

 

[Marvelous_A]

Just make it multiplicative

[GEN-Son_17]

I don't think it should change honestly. He's already insanely potent all around and is way too versatile to give him even more power. 

[Tesseract7777]

On 2021-04-05 at 4:38 AM, (PSN)Madurai-Prime said:

So every frame needs a ridiculous stat buff for a passive just because Zephyr has one?

I think that's an unnecessarily reductive way to look at it. 

I looked over all the passives recently, and the vast majority of them have been updated to a point where I don't feel the need for more additions or upgrades, but Excal is one of the few I think could still use something more. 

It's like the opposite of the same reason DE should be defended for nerfing king of the hill weapons. If a handful of frames have a really weak passive compared to everyone else, I see no reason we cannot revisit them and make them feel a little more up to speed with the scale of the rest of the game. That doesn't mean we need huge buffs, but it needs to feel like it does something. Can you tell me Excal's passive is really even noticeable? 

Whereas stuff like Nova, it doesn't scale, isn't impactful damage wise outside of insanely low level, but I'm fine enough with it because it does something useful (knocks down enemies) that you can actually notice happen. 

Excalibur's passive has a damage bonus that is almost never going to make any real difference in your kps.