So how about Arch Guns which are supposed to be limited use superweapons? Why does DE ignore them?

[XaelathRavenstorm]

With the gun buffs through mods and arcanes, I think Arch guns should get a buff as well. These weapons are supposed to be limited use heavy power weapons but now they're a lot worse than ever.

They should add Galvanized Arch gun mod variants and Arch gun Deadhead/Merciless arcanes. Even with these added, I still think they're weaker than normal guns so base stats and/or riven disposition should be increased like 2-3x higher. This will make them feel more like a superweapon rather than a utility tool used for one boss fight.

What are your thoughts?

EDIT: I'm talking about surface Arch guns which are deployed via Arch gun deployer. Arch guns on Archwing missions doesn't need any changes at all.

[DrivaMain]

They are probably holding it off until Modular Archwings are a thing.

[fo3nixz]

could be worse: de entirely ignores horrible arch melee

[(PSN)robotwars7]

6 hours ago, XaelathRavenstorm said:

What are your thoughts?

I wholeheartedly agree. once Galvanized mods go live and start being used, the differences between Primary/Secondary and Archgun will be night and day. Archguns are objectiveley worse for a number of reasons:

- low chance to drop ammo

- smaller ammo pool

- require specific items (Archgun Deployer & Fitted Catalyst + Gravimag) to use.

- less overall damage

- cooldown after using them (up to 3 mins if all ammo used)

most Primary and Secondary weapons have none of these disadvantages and will be significantly stronger than the "heavy" weapons, which makes zero sense. Archguns need to be given proper buffs, or their own Galvanized mods: there are nowhere near as many of the Archguns, so if DE go through each one and buff their stats now, it won't be as much work as if they leave it. 

[XaelathRavenstorm]

1 hour ago, (PSN)robotwars7 said:

I wholeheartedly agree. once Galvanized mods go live and start being used, the differences between Primary/Secondary and Archgun will be night and day. Archguns are objectiveley worse for a number of reasons:

- low chance to drop ammo

- smaller ammo pool

- require specific items (Archgun Deployer & Fitted Catalyst + Gravimag) to use.

- less overall damage

- cooldown after using them (up to 3 mins if all ammo used)

most Primary and Secondary weapons have none of these disadvantages and will be significantly stronger than the "heavy" weapons, which makes zero sense. Archguns need to be given proper buffs, or their own Galvanized mods: there are nowhere near as many of the Archguns, so if DE go through each one and buff their stats now, it won't be as much work as if they leave it. 

Completely agree. They can even squeeze it in on the update.

[MonsterOfMyOwn]

a few archgun are worth it, and the Mausolon is stupidly strong, which is stupid for a "default" weapon that you get for free with your Necramech (compared to dual decurion prisma.... that you get at baro and is bad, or the Kuva ayanga which is good but requires killing a liche and ~5 forma).

If they were to buff archgun with those arcane thingy that proc "on kill" why not, but it will prolly make the mausolon (and its charged alt fire) even more strong.

[-Augustus-]

1 hour ago, MonsterOfMyOwn said:

If they were to buff archgun with those arcane thingy that proc "on kill" why not, but it prolly make the mausolon (and it's charged alt fire) even more strong.

And yet, still strikingly weaker than a couple blades on a stick.

[Aldain]

Coming soon...the ability to buy an Arcane Unlocker from Steel Path Honors for Archguns and a Archgun Merciless Arcane which gives 30% per kill stacking up to 12 times...

Because that seems to be DE's only solution to power gaps...not looking and going "Huh, a lot of these old Archgun stats were bad even when they launched, let's fix that".

[xcrimsonlegendx]

They should probably just manually buff the arch-weapons that are under-performing since there are so few arch-guns rather than put a band-aid on the entire class of weapons so we don't wind up making the good ones OP (moreso) and cause them to eventually be nerfed after the fact.

[DoomFruit]

I'd rather they put in some base mechanic changes for archguns - namely making them able to completely ignore arbitrary damage resistance that some enemies have (nox, juggernaut, thumper, the utterly inexplicable corpus treasurer). It's an anti-vehicle weapon which we are only able to wield because we have it fitted with an inertial dampener. It should deal full damage to things with vehicle-level armour. Then you'd have a real reason to choose them over your normal arsenal. Blades and small arms for normal infantry, heavy weapons for heavy enemies.

[Soy77]

On 2021-06-19 at 5:02 PM, XaelathRavenstorm said:

These weapons are supposed to be limited use heavy power weapons 

I actually just realized that. And it sounds like a terrific idea. Turning super for a couple of seconds is not a new concept in videogames (exalteds doesn't count cuz we all make builds to keep em on forever).

I always thought of the deployer as mere proprietary phase for profit taker quests, and I just forget about it everywhere else because let's be honest hitting the enemies a couple more times with your weapons is way faster than summoning the archguns.

[(XBOX)GearsMatrix301]

Still waiting for them to buff the archgun mods like they said they would.

[TARINunit9]

I have to wonder if DE is looking at the old Archwing missions (Salacia, Caelis, etc.) In those missions Archguns are more powerful than ever, even with the hitscan nerf

The original problem with Archguns, back when Profit Taker was released, wasn't the numbers, the problem is they were changed from "big fish in a tiny pond" to "big fish in the ocean." Even in launch day Railjack they were actually really powerful (DE had to nerf them by 90% for a while)

But going forward? Yeah I think power creep is starting to outpace them outside their native space combat environment

[(PSN)sister-hawk]

To answer the title, because of the same reason why DE ignores so many of the game’s systems: lack of foresight. They keep coming up with new stuff to cram into the game with no long-term plan for how it will all fit together. To be blunt, arch-guns were created purely as a way of making us grind for power before we could fight profit taker. Just an arbitrary hoop to jump through. I doubt they ever gave any serious thought to how they fit into the meta.

And honestly no, I really don’t want yet another set of band-aid mods to have to grind for just so my massive auto-cannon, which is so heavy it literally needs to be fitted with an anti-gravity device just so I can wield it, isn’t completely outclassed by a pistol that fits into my back pocket.

[Lakais]

I'll say what the "problem" with arch-weapons is: They are working properly. 

Arch weapons were brought into the game AFTER the whole nightmare of this game's mod system was realized. By keeping it separate from the main gameplay loop, DE did not have to deal with the stacking-scaling nonsense that the basic modding system allows. So they have kept the list of mods small and curated. I honestly can't blame them for it. AW's don't need it. 

Are some of the normal weaponry more powerful then AW's? Yes. And usually you have to jump through quite a few loops to get and build them up. Effort-to-effort, I'd argue that AW's ARE more powerful then standard weapons at sheer base value. It's just that the many times bigger catalog of mods that normal weapons have just lets them be built up to a higher level of insanity. 

AW's are stuck in a place where to make them the "superweapons" they were advertised as, DE either needs to expand their mods list to allow for it or limit the capabilities of other weapons. The former is a recipe for disaster and the later is attempted suicide. 

The only "easy" solution I have come up with is to fundamentally change how ground AW weapons are modded and deployed. You mod them by using normal primary weapon mods, allowing for the absolute game-ruining insanity that some crave. BUT, you have to sacrifice two weapon slots for it because you have to equip it before the mission starts AND you can't replenish ammo for it. What you bring is what you have to use for the entire mission.
So you get your world-ending weapon of mass destruction, but there is a limitation in place as to how much face you can wreck. Is it a good idea? I don't know, but it's the best one I can come up with without curbstomping what little challenge or difficulty this game has left into the dirt. 

[mrpyro12345678]

В 19.06.2021 в 13:02, XaelathRavenstorm сказал:

These weapons are supposed to be limited use heavy power weapons but now they're a lot worse than ever.

I'm sorry, what.

В 19.06.2021 в 21:04, MonsterOfMyOwn сказал:

The Mausolon is stupidly strong, which is stupid for a "default" weapon that you get for free with your Necramech (compared to dual decurion prisma.... that you get at baro and is bad, or the Kuva ayanga which is good but requires killing a liche and ~5 forma).

How the heck?!

What is this cancer this thread is spewing?
1. Archguns were not supposed to be a temporary super at first - they're the default weapon of a vehicle, them being usable on the ground was by lack of foresight as sister-hawk stated.
2. The Mausolon is technically not an archgun, but a necragun. Think about it, you're sticking a default weapon of a mech to an aerial vehicle, of course it's going to stand out from the rest of the archguns, because they're designed around space and archwings, while the Mausolon's designed around a giant extremely armored vehicle on the ground. Not to mention, the Mausolon's secondary is very easy to miss with in outer space. It's like putting a tank gun onto a plane. A good comparison would be the fictional prototype aircraft from Ace Combat - The ADFX-05 Morgan, which quite literally HAS A GIANT LASER WEAPON SLAPPED ON THE TOP OF IT (WHICH WAS ORIGINALLY A GIANT SUPERWEAPON BUILDING-).

That said, I'm not against mods to scale them. It's just for all the wrong reasons right here.  Right now, Railjack's got enemies so strong that the Archguns need better scaling mods, which you can put somewhere in the earlier proximas, it'll work.

[MonsterOfMyOwn]

il y a 39 minutes, mrpyro12345678 a dit :

I'm sorry, what.

How the heck?!

Archwing missions are not relevant, archwing in railjack are not relevant, sharkwing are not relevant.

What matters is warframe. And as far as warframe is concerned, Mausolon is stupidly strong compared to other archguns and most primaries and tbh.

About "heavy weapons" (it you prefer that spelling) it was supposed to be limited ammo / high damage, damage which were so high that it could damage profit taker. Corvas 1HKO parts in solo, imperator vandal has high dps with chroma buff, but... then comes the Mausolon that has same dps as imperator vandal, but with an alt that deals million damages in AoE...

[mrpyro12345678]

11 минут назад, MonsterOfMyOwn сказал:

Archwing missions are not relevant, archwing in railjack are not relevant, sharkwing are not relevant.

What matters is warframe. And as far as warframe is concerned, Mausolon is stupidly strong compared to other archguns and most primaries and tbh.

About "heavy weapons" (it you prefer that spelling) it was supposed to be limited ammo / high damage, damage which were so high that it could damage profit taker. Corvas 1HKO parts in solo, imperator vandal has high dps with chroma buff, but... then comes the Mausolon that has same dps as imperator vandal, but with an alt that deals million damages in AoE...

How can someone miss the entire point of the topic here AND a counter to that topic- Like wth-

I'll just slowly dissapear into the night...

[MonsterOfMyOwn]

Il y a 2 heures, mrpyro12345678 a dit :

How can someone miss the entire point of the topic here AND a counter to that topic- Like wth-

I'll just slowly dissapear into the night...

I don't get what you don't get. The entire "buff guns" is made for warframe steel path, and for this purpose heavy guns are usually not worth it appart a few, and among them the mausolon - which is a damn "default" weapon - is strong.
I agree that heavy weapons needs buffs, but a rebalance should have to be done before at the same time as any "arcane that proc damage buff on kill", otherwise it'll narrow the meta even more.

[Venus-Venera]

Am 19.6.2021 um 12:02 schrieb XaelathRavenstorm:

With the gun buffs through mods and arcanes, I think Arch guns should get a buff as well. These weapons are supposed to be limited use heavy power weapons but now they're a lot worse than ever.

They should either add Galvanized Arch gun mod variants and Arch gun Deadhead/Merciless arcanes. Even with these added, I still think they're weaker than normal guns so base stats and/or riven disposition should be increased like 2-3x higher. This will make them feel more like a superweapon rather than a utility tool for bosses.

What are your thoughts?

EDIT: I'm talking about surface Arch guns which are deployed via Arch gun deployer. Arch guns on Archwing missions doesn't need any changes at all.

yes, they are actually already much worse because the ammunition runs out too quickly. protea skill is of little use if you have to shoot all the time.
there are also too many single target weapons or weapons with a very small aoe radius. that is also a huge disadvantage!
even unlimited ammunition wouldn't help much here if kuva nukor offers absolutely top performance -> especially with good CO mele!

[TARINunit9]

5 hours ago, (PSN)sister-hawk said:

To be blunt, arch-guns were created purely as a way of making us grind for power before we could fight profit taker. 

This is... Either just plain wrong because they give you a free Gravimag two minutes before you fight Profit Taker, or extremely flagrantly wrong because Archguns were added in 2014, while Profit Taker came out in like 2019 or so

[(PSN)sister-hawk]

44 minutes ago, TARINunit9 said:

This is... Either just plain wrong because they give you a free Gravimag two minutes before you fight Profit Taker, or extremely flagrantly wrong because Archguns were added in 2014, while Profit Taker came out in like 2019 or so

Ok well I would think it obvious I was talking specifically about arch-guns as heavy weapons, considering that is what this thread is about. That was added along with profit taker to give us something to grind for in order to be able to fight her.

And speaking of the grind, I’m referring to the fact that a lot of players did not have their arch-guns properly powered up when Fortuna released, because why would you? You clear the arch-wing nodes on the star chart once and then never touch them again. So if you wanted your arch-gun to not be garbage in the fight, you had to turn around and grind for the mods.

Anyway whether or not you had to grind for them isn’t really the point. They were made for that purpose, to be yet another thing you have to acquire to play the game mode. Like I said, an arbitrary hoop to jump through.

[TARINunit9]

8 minutes ago, (PSN)sister-hawk said:

And speaking of the grind, I’m referring to the fact that a lot of players did not have their arch-guns properly powered up when Fortuna released, because why would you? You clear the arch-wing nodes on the star chart once and then never touch them again. So if you wanted your arch-gun to not be garbage in the fight, you had to turn around and grind for the mods.

I can only say "speak for yourself" because we had been doing Formorian Sabotage for over two years. You want a PotatoForma Archgun for that in order to hit the 2 million damage reward, so it was the natural choice for us to just use that for Profit Taker

[ebrl]

Y'all forgetting that DE balances the entire game around a hypothetical player that is, like, only about halfway through the Star Chart.

[Zeddypanda]

Buffing Archguns to be powerful would be cool except for the part where maintaining it forever is trivial.

Realistically I think we could get some small stat/mod buffs and speeding the deployment animation by quite a lot so that we have a viable backup weapon.