Update 30.5: Helminth Update Feedback Megathread (Read First Post!)

[sunderthefirmament]

3 minutes ago, taiiat said:

oh. i went looking at the thing you interact with for it, seemed like the place that it would be at. just expectation vs reality then, i suppose.

It shows up for me when I go to the chair.  Do you mean the mouth itself?

[sunderthefirmament]

Duplicate.  Apologies.

[taiiat]

7 minutes ago, sunderthefirmament said:

It shows up for me when I go to the chair.  Do you mean the mouth itself?

yes, i expected to look at Helminth rather than the Chair.

[-Augustus-]

16 minutes ago, taiiat said:

oh. i went looking at the thing you interact with for it, seemed like the place that it would be at. just expectation vs reality then, i suppose.

The chair is where you interact with it in the way that matters. The mouth is where you see non-functional BS with a kavat or whatever.

[DarkSkysz]

On 2021-07-06 at 1:58 PM, Tesseract7777 said:

ou worked to grind those frames, but you subsumed them knowing that overlap xp was just "poof" gone. You did it anyways, and got the full benefits of the system for it. 

I wonder if those people complaining about lost xp are those that leave on round 1 of every mission beucase they don't want to 'waste' any affinity on their weapons. lol

[Lancars]

I didn't like this system when it was first announced cause its RNG jury-rigged Band-Aid.

And today I find it even more stupid. I decide to open it up and low and behold.

Lavos: 250% Melee Damage. +2 Energy Rate

This system doesn't even look at the frames its giving these buffs to. Can't wait for that shield buff to Inaros and Nidus.

[Andele3025]

Invigorations seem like a mistake. Those buff rotations should have been the actual arbi buffs instead of the flat +200% strength.
Especially if they came at cost of something better like ability to respec rankup bonuses or infuse a augment to be permanently part of the ability if one doesnt want to helminth over something (and maybe making it immune to dispel/cancel; it could still be suppressed, just the buffs not stripped or channels disabled).

Also at least give people a way to suppress a infusion (be it because something like +5 jumps messes with muscle memory or plain old new build testing) if activated.

[Lancars]

3 hours ago, Andele3025 said:

Invigorations seem like a mistake. Those buff rotations should have been the actual arbi buffs instead of the flat +200% strength.
Especially if they came at cost of something better like ability to respec rankup bonuses or infuse a augment to be permanently part of the ability if one doesnt want to helminth over something (and maybe making it immune to dispel/cancel; it could still be suppressed, just the buffs not stripped or channels disabled).

Also at least give people a way to suppress a infusion (be it because something like +5 jumps messes with muscle memory or plain old new build testing) if activated.

Issue is they won't remove it. They think its good for us cause its a band-aid to get us to play other frames they say when most of the buff suck or don't do anything. Something a frame can't use like my example.

[Funkzie]

PLZ allow Invigorations to be applied without having to equip the proper Warframe, 

explanation : when visiting helminth u are presented with 3 invigorations options, I would like to be able to simply press (apply) on these options without having to go back to the arsenal and equip the corresponding Warframe.

[MonsterOfMyOwn]

Invigoration is a bad idea, and the result is either dumb or OP.

Infuse / invigoration is a way to create fake diversity without having to make a proper frame rework, and feels like a huge slap in the face of mid / hard core gamers.

This week I have 

+1000HP / +200% melee crit chance for Nidus

+1000 armor / +100% duration for Octavia

+200% strength / +75% sprint speed for Baruuk.

All are OP. What was the point of nerfing melee if you introduce that ?

[(PSN)moonlitxshadow]

Why aren't vets getting helminth xp from already subsumed frames? Why punish vets and give newer players an unfair advantage? Infusing and removing abilities over and over just to level up helminth is a huge waste of time and resources. Feels like a huge middle finger to players that have stuck around with you.

I haven't maxed my standing with the entrati because it's tedious and annoying. So I don't have invigorations yet. And tbh I wasn't that excited about a temporary system anyway so I was just gunna mostly ignore it.

I just want the finder ability!

Recap:

punishes vets for doing things early.

Tries to force a new system locked behind another grind.

Invigorations are very meh cuz they disappear after a week.

Best New ability is placed at the end of the new levels that you can't get with out massive investment of time and resources you should already have from having subsumed some frames previously.

[master_of_destiny]

On 2021-07-12 at 1:24 PM, Lancars said:

I didn't like this system when it was first announced cause its RNG jury-rigged Band-Aid.

And today I find it even more stupid. I decide to open it up and low and behold.

Lavos: 250% Melee Damage. +2 Energy Rate

This system doesn't even look at the frames its giving these buffs to. Can't wait for that shield buff to Inaros and Nidus.

 

I...have a similar story.  Lavos.  +250% melee damage, +200% energy maximum.  

The first is good hands down.  The second...on Lavos?  

 

 

My feedback thus far is that these bonuses are a terrible joke.  Let me express exactly how I feel.  You introduced the system as a gigantic resource sink.  That was obvious, because we had a 24 hour wait and 40+ frames.  That's resources, a month of feedings, more resources, and if you wanted to actually use it even more resources.  It's...locked behind a mastery rank cap...so whatever that is.  It's also got a resource scaling cost...so multiple time gates.  It's obviously a ploy for people to either wait a long time, or spend an enormous amount of stuff to get the content.

I say this as a person who had plenty of stuff...but couldn't make myself spend the insane amounts of resources.

 

Now we've got a constant material cost.  We've got weekly bonuses that are so RNG as to be a terrifying joke.  Said bonuses are capable of making certain frames amazing...while others are simply insane.  Best of all, DE disrespects the minority of the player base that went out, did all of the grind to get every frame, and now is being told that despite that they've got several more weeks of grind to unlock and try these new powers....combined with more material costs...combined with literally nothing that can be counted upon.  The rank 15 power is basically the same as the loot radar, animal instinct, or primed animal instinct mods...  So...I don't get it.  

 

How would one fix this?  Well, first would be to list potential bonuses.  Second would be to list their weighting.   Third, make the infusions a consumable of some sort.  We're back again to removing the "reward" ranks that expand your amount of subsumes, and back to using these ranks to unlock infusion slots in the helminth.  As an expansion on the third item, any frame receiving the infusion is allowed a week of bonuses, chosen by the player, but develops a reactive immunity that prevents infusing again for three weeks.  Why?  Well, this means players will need at least 9 frames to have an infusion applied, their "core" choices will be out of the loop for the better part of a month, and this will allow people to choose their less used frames that match each infusion.  This gives us choice, but also forces people to adapt.  Finally...let's talk about the costing.  Remove it.  This incentivizes play and engagement, instead of creating a whole new resource sink that will immediately put off new players.

 

 

 

Alternatively...maybe you can insult the player base more.  From someone who ran more than 200 Eidolon captures and couldn't put a single R3 arcane together, I can assert reasonably that RNG rewards are not rewards.  They're a trap. 

[addamrobin2]

it's been more than a week

where is this mythical "toxicity" that has been prophesize by the all-knowing players?

i checked recruitment tab, can't find any? where are the "oNLy +200% stReNGtH RhINo REE"? "oNLy +200% cRIt hArroW REEE"

[TheLexiConArtist]

21 minutes ago, addamrobin2 said:

it's been more than a week

where is this mythical "toxicity" that has been prophesize by the all-knowing players?

i checked recruitment tab, can't find any? where are the "oNLy +200% stReNGtH RhINo REE"? "oNLy +200% cRIt hArroW REEE"

A) Way too much depth of probability in getting A stat on B frame among C number of players present in D region at E time wanting to do F activity.
B) No presented way of verifying your squadmate has that invigoration (or indeed any invigoration) active.

This was predictable. Maybe we'll see one or two edge cases after a few weeks when the 10-invigoration 'pick your frame' starts being potentially available, but even then, the probability depth is still pretty abyssal.

[addamrobin2]

1 hour ago, TheLexiConArtist said:

A) Way too much depth of probability in getting A stat on B frame among C number of players present in D region at E time wanting to do F activity.
B) No presented way of verifying your squadmate has that invigoration (or indeed any invigoration) active.

This was predictable. Maybe we'll see one or two edge cases after a few weeks when the 10-invigoration 'pick your frame' starts being potentially available, but even then, the probability depth is still pretty abyssal.

my point exactly

seems like people that complain about invigoration buffs can somehow see the future?

or is this another case of "i watch one youtube video of a known player that complain about it, so i too go ape*%$& about it" kind of thing?

[Leqesai]

The new status immunity mod can lose all of its charges near instantly due to no protected time between status loss.

I suggest changing how this works so there is a 0.25s delay between each loss on the counter.

[Leqesai]

On 2021-07-13 at 5:45 AM, MonsterOfMyOwn said:

Invigoration is a bad idea, and the result is either dumb or OP.

Infuse / invigoration is a way to create fake diversity without having to make a proper frame rework, and feels like a huge slap in the face of mid / hard core gamers.

This week I have 

+1000HP / +200% melee crit chance for Nidus

+1000 armor / +100% duration for Octavia

+200% strength / +75% sprint speed for Baruuk.

All are OP. What was the point of nerfing melee if you introduce that ?

To encourage frame diversity in squads...

[SrDarion]

Hi here is my first Feedback post and is for HELMINTH INVIGORATIONS,

I liked the new mechanic but I had an idea to make it cooler
EVERY WEEK, our Helminth will have an Affinity toward 3 Warframes
to gain select Weekly Buffs, 
I wish I could pay tribute to the helminth once a day to reroll my 3 buffs and warframes,
so i wouldn't have to wait a week to check my helminth again.
 

 

[NanoFox006]

Please reduce the cooldown of the Golden Instinct to at least 10 seconds, so that it can really be useful in the search, and not just as a yes/no indicator. And remove the spark launch animation or attach it to the warframe. Because after all the words about pace of game, you make people stand still for 2 seconds and wait for the bird to fly out.

[DarkSkysz]

1 hour ago, NanoFox006 said:

Please reduce the cooldown of the Golden Instinct to at least 10 seconds, so that it can really be useful in the search, and not just as a yes/no indicator. And remove the spark launch animation or attach it to the warframe. Because after all the words about pace of game, you make people stand still for 2 seconds and wait for the bird to fly out.

Tbh... if they make it even easier... better just sell the statues for credits in the market?

 

The skill is to help you find, and not to automatically place it in your inventory.

[(PSN)Boomstickman98]

So all im hearing is a bunch of whining children that they want free stuff. I never sacrificed all my frames because I knew I wasn't gonna use over half of the abilities, so now I gotta grind to even hit level ten, the same as those complaining have already done. There is no way to skip the grind to my knowledge, so stop the complaining. DE aren't your personal helicopter parents.  As to those who realize there is no issue, kuddos.

[Alpheus]

41 minutes ago, (PSN)Boomstickman98 said:

So all im hearing is a bunch of whining children that they want free stuff. I never sacrificed all my frames because I knew I wasn't gonna use over half of the abilities, so now I gotta grind to even hit level ten, the same as those complaining have already done. There is no way to skip the grind to my knowledge, so stop the complaining. DE aren't your personal helicopter parents.  As to those who realize there is no issue, kuddos.

"It isn't a problem for me, so it's not a problem at all!"

[(PSN)Boomstickman98]

5 minutes ago, Alpheus said:

"It isn't a problem for me, so it's not a problem at all!"

more like "stop your childish whining, its a actual nonissue. Stop trying to make it into one."

[(PSN)Boomstickman98]

3 minutes ago, master_of_destiny said:

 

One, I didn't say you said anything.  Maybe you should read one more time.

 

43 minutes ago, master_of_destiny said:

I should really appreciate the grand logic of someone calling everyone that disagrees with them "kiddos."

Seems to sound, at least to me, as though you are putting words into my mouth. Because I don't call everyone that disagrees children, only those that cry they want free stuff when they knew what they were getting into.

 

7 minutes ago, master_of_destiny said:

3) DE does allow you to get to rank 15 on day 1.  Infuse ability, remove infusion, feed helminth, give sentient materials to reset bonuses, repeat.  Each of these steps, barring the infusion removal, give xp.

That...I was genuinely unaware of. Granted, it sounds tedious as all crap to do that.

I'll admit I came off as abrasive, I guess my emotions clouded my judgement once again. Thanks for pulling me back from that. I'm usually very reserved. I just get like this when I feel particularly strong about something. Those are very valid criticisms.

[Alpheus]

6 minutes ago, (PSN)Boomstickman98 said:

Seems to sound, at least to me, as though you are putting words into my mouth. Because I don't call everyone that disagrees children, only those that cry they want free stuff when they knew what they were getting into.

It's not free, it's getting a delayed return on a non-repeatable investment. We aren't talking about getting all the XP from every resource plugged into the Helminth. Some people like myself fed frames to Helminth simply for the sake of collection even if we had zero intent to use the abilities and were at XP cap, and some of those same people feel cheated out of what could have been a massive source of XP because they no longer have access to the same methods that non-participants now do. It's been a year since the initial Helminth release which is more than enough time for even the most casual players to have filled out the Helminth log. It's not just the die-hard week 1 level cappers that aren't happy about this, contrary to what a lot of the defenders here seem to be echoing.