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RIVEN Capacity Outdated!


(PSN)nitto420s
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I'm mr31 have 180 riven can't do sortie. Have over 10,000 Platinum that I can use other then get cosmetics. With soooo many weapons in game. Riven capacity is way way to low. Mr30 n up should be allowed 300 minimum. I can have millions of mods, n arcane etc. Makes no sense. Your in this to make money on your free to play game thar I have 1000s of dollars invested in. Bad enough I have absolutely nothing to do in game but farm things I don't need. Weapons I would love to get riven for, millions of Kuva with nothing to role anymore. PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE increase capacity. We all are begging you! 

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19 minutes ago, (PSN)nitto420s said:

I'm mr31 have 180 riven can't do sortie. Have over 10,000 Platinum that I can use other then get cosmetics. With soooo many weapons in game. Riven capacity is way way to low. Mr30 n up should be allowed 300 minimum. I can have millions of mods, n arcane etc. Makes no sense. Your in this to make money on your free to play game thar I have 1000s of dollars invested in. Bad enough I have absolutely nothing to do in game but farm things I don't need. Weapons I would love to get riven for, millions of Kuva with nothing to role anymore. PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE increase capacity. We all are begging you! 

ho you got 10 000p ? selling riven right?

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47 minutes ago, (PSN)nitto420s said:

I'm mr31 have 180 riven can't do sortie. Have over 10,000 Platinum that I can use other then get cosmetics. With soooo many weapons in game. Riven capacity is way way to low. Mr30 n up should be allowed 300 minimum. I can have millions of mods, n arcane etc. Makes no sense. Your in this to make money on your free to play game thar I have 1000s of dollars invested in. Bad enough I have absolutely nothing to do in game but farm things I don't need. Weapons I would love to get riven for, millions of Kuva with nothing to role anymore. PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE increase capacity. We all are begging you! 

I know players like you exist, but it is amazing to see them in the wild like this. To have played so much that you've literally done everything including super high end fashionframe, maxed everything in the game and all mods and such, and have literally the max amount of rivens and not a single one you would be willing to get rid of.

That is an incredible amount of dedication to the game. I mean, I don't see why they couldn't let people pay plat to have even more rivens, the amount of outliers doing it would, I imagine, hardly put any noticeable strain on infrastructure, unless there is something I am missing about how they store data. Regardless, I doubt many people are begging for this. 

People like you are probably like, the 1% OF the 1%.... 

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I think its rather healthy if you have limited slots and are forced to improve and refine your current mods. It's not like you can really use more than a fraction of the total capacity.

I understand 99% of Warframe is zero consequence loot hording but the restriction to Rivens is fine imo.

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21 minutes ago, Tesseract7777 said:

I know players like you exist, but it is amazing to see them in the wild like this. To have played so much that you've literally done everything including super high end fashionframe, maxed everything in the game and all mods and such, and have literally the max amount of rivens and not a single one you would be willing to get rid of.

That is an incredible amount of dedication to the game. I mean, I don't see why they couldn't let people pay plat to have even more rivens, the amount of outliers doing it would, I imagine, hardly put any noticeable strain on infrastructure, unless there is something I am missing about how they store data. Regardless, I doubt many people are begging for this. 

People like you are probably like, the 1% OF the 1%.... 

I highly doubt all 180 of those Rivens cannot be improved in one form or another.

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If you genuinely want this, you'll want to post this in the Feedback section, that's where the devs actually look.  General Discussion is just for players.

Odds are the hard limit exists because of either programming or database issues.  I imagine that whether they implement this or not will come down to how significant those issues are.  But good luck to you.

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I don't think it's a programming or database issue, we have many more variables that have no cap.

It's a market control mechanism in my opinion.

Hate it or love it , rivens are some of the most traded and in demand items in the game with a very variable plat value.

Having limited capacity means you must discard some of the rivens , and since new weapons are regularly being released and riven dispos are frequently updated , the riven market is always in flux.

So that shiny amazing thing you have now could be less shiny later , and you would prefer to replace it with a different one that is more effective , thus encouraging you to trade plat for it (and then spend more time rolling it)

I understand what the OP feels , but I do not see DE increasing that limit until we cross another weapon count threshold.

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27 minutes ago, (XBOX)TheWayOfWisdom said:

Yea have fun "improving and refining" your rivens. Kinda funny given who it's coming from.

I mean if you want to settle for 180 mediocre mods and then complain the cap is too low, by all means. I still don't see how removing or raising the cap for Riven capacity would make any reasonable improvement to the system. Inventory management is a thing this game has hints of, and I am sort of a fan of it. You're free to not like it and that's fine too.

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5 minutes ago, Voltage said:

I mean if you want to settle for 180 mediocre mods and then complain the cap is too low, by all means. I still don't see how removing or raising the cap for Riven capacity would make any reasonable improvement to the system. Inventory management is a thing this game has hints of, and I am sort of a fan of it. You're free to not like it and that's fine too.

So I think DE should cap frame slots at 20 and Weapon slots at 50 so you are forced to improve and refine your current builds. I  don't see how having unlimited frame and weapon slots would make any reasonable improvement to the system. Inventory management is a thing this game has hints of, and I am sort of a fan of it.

See how nonsensical that sounds?
If you're allowed effectively infinite weapon/frame slots, why shouldn't you be allowed effectively infinite riven slots.
 

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6 hours ago, Tesseract7777 said:

I mean, I don't see why they couldn't let people pay plat to have even more rivens, the amount of outliers doing it would, I imagine, hardly put any noticeable strain on infrastructure, unless there is something I am missing about how they store data. Regardless, I doubt many people are begging for this. 

I think you answered your own question. Unlike normal mods that don't vary in stats, you just have n amount of instances of it each, riven is stored in a special part of the table/db. Thus the limited amount of riven slots. Per individual player, it probably seems like a mundane amount, but it adds up over the total player base.

Edited by Megalomaniakaal
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1 minute ago, Megalomaniakaal said:

I think you answered your own question. Unlike normal mods that don't vary in stats, you just have n amount of instances of it each, riven is stored in a special part of the table/db. Thus the limited amount of riven slots. Per individual player, it probably seems like a mundane amount, but it adds up over the total player base.

Yeah I admit there could be limitations that I don't fully understand. 

I know just enough about programming to know that I would be talking out of my ass to say with certainty if it would be a simple thing to increase the amounts a lot without reworking their data storage infrastructure. 

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1 hour ago, Megalomaniakaal said:

I think you answered your own question. Unlike normal mods that don't vary in stats, you just have n amount of instances of it each, riven is stored in a special part of the table/db. Thus the limited amount of riven slots. Per individual player, it probably seems like a mundane amount, but it adds up over the total player base.

I always believed this was the reason for the riven cap. However they also keep a record of every lich. They seem to be in a similar situation to rivens. It makes me wonder how much bearing data storage really has.

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The liches are probably easier to store, but it's likely also a older system design vs newer one. I.e. lessons learned from the older ones have been implemented for newer ones, but without a rework the older design is still plagued by it's (hard) design issues. And god knows should they go reworking the rivens system there is going to be whole oceans worth of tears spilled over it here.

 

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2 hours ago, Megalomaniakaal said:

I think you answered your own question. Unlike normal mods that don't vary in stats, you just have n amount of instances of it each, riven is stored in a special part of the table/db. Thus the limited amount of riven slots. Per individual player, it probably seems like a mundane amount, but it adds up over the total player base.

That claim has never made sense to me, either when DE's made it or when it's been explained by someone else. There just isn't enough data you'd need to store for it to be such a big problem unless DE's doing something exceptionally stupid with their databases. I think there are only like 13 or 14 data points you'd need to track per Riven: weapon, polarity, MR requirement, number of rolls, mod rank, the stat type and value of each of the 4 possible stats, and I think one more I'm forgetting a unique ID for the mod itself. Fewer if they're clever. Rivens aren't free to store, obviously, but compare 14 bytes and ints to how many settings and options exist just for a single Warframe:

  • 3 different mod loadouts each with:
    • 10 mods
    • 2 Arcanes
    • Helminth options
  • 3 different Conclave mod loadouts
  • Affinity, Level, Forma Count, potato, Exilus Adapter, and Focus Lens
  • Mod slot polarities
  • 3 appearance configs each with:
    • Skin, Helmet, and Animation set
    • A set of 8 colors
    • 5 attachments, an auxiliary attachment, an Ephemera, and a set of 8 colors
    • A Syandana with a set of 8 colors
    • 2 emblems
    • 2 sigils each with 6 sliders and a color
  • And probably more I'm forgetting

You can also double the number of mod and appearance configs for any item, and each extra config costs only 10p - half that of a single Riven slot - yet has far more information that needs to be stored. You can also buy more item slots without any limit I'm aware of and fill each of those slots with a new unique item with its own unique set of mod and appearance configs. Primaries, secondaries, melee, and some pets can also be renamed with plaintext DE has to store somewhere, and that ain't cheap either. Just how much data needs to be stored for that, data which gets bigger every time DE adds some new feature? But somehow Rivens are supposed to be too expensive...?

Edited by PublikDomain
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4 minutes ago, (PSN)Shelneroth said:

I always believed this was the reason for the riven cap. However they also keep a record of every lich. They seem to be in a similar situation to rivens. It makes me wonder how much bearing data storage really has.

Interesting point about the liches.

I'd have to make a blind assumption and think they are somewhat low impact, after all the hounds in the foundry caused DE issues that they fixed.

"If you’ve engaged in the Adversary hunts with Kuva Liches and Sisters of Parvos, your Foundry might be suffering from some unavoidable clutter. The amount of Hounds and weapons sitting in your Foundry have grown to not only take up room in your list but also within the database itself!"

Maybe it was a small issue that they fixed before it could grow though.

 

On another thought, there are 40,756 possible combinations per riven, (quick wiki check.) unless I've missed something each stat is random within the 90-110% range of a set value and runs to a 0.1 decimal place (?).

So lets look at 3p1n melee CC, 180% is the valve.

The actual stat values are randomly chosen between 90% and 110% of the base value, multiplied by the Disposition, and then multiplied by the following value 0.9375.

So with a 1.5 dispo the range is between 227.8 and 278.4% possible CC, to one decimal place is 506 possible valves per this stat alone.

Needless to say that unless my math is wrong or DE have weighted the system somehow the number of possible riven rolls is absurd and each one has to be stored by DE.

The layers of RNG are not great for players or DE it seems, DE don't want to handle more Riven storage so players have a cap, I'd guess the current system couldn't handle anything near every player being at the riven cap.

     
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29 minutes ago, PublikDomain said:
  • 3 different mod loadouts each with:
    • 10 mods
    • 2 Arcanes
    • Helminth options
  • 3 different Conclave mod loadouts
  • Affinity, Level, Forma Count, potato, Exilus Adapter, and Focus Lens
  • Mod slot polarities
  • 3 appearance configs each with:
    • Skin, Helmet, and Animation set
    • A set of 8 colors
    • 5 attachments, an auxiliary attachment, an Ephemera, and a set of 8 colors
    • A Syandana with a set of 8 colors
    • 2 emblems
    • 2 sigils each with 6 sliders and a color

I tried searching for a certain post, but I couldn't find it. There was a glitch for a short time where the player linked their riven and got all sorts of text values that represented that riven. Anyway, my point was this limit of space may have less to do with memory and more to do with exponential spaghetti code clogging up the pipes.

 

Hypothetical scenario: a single loadout slot takes 100kb**. This includes everything you listed above including what weapons, companion, mech, kdrive, heavy weapon, emotes, and gear-wheel. It is 100kb for a new player with no mods/customization and it is 100kb for a veteran player.

Because of the lengthy text rendering of the riven (whos post I couldn't find), that adds 8kb** of variable data to the mix (more if you include the other mod loadouts). So now this "clean system" needs speghetti code to add riven funtionality and... [blah blah blah]. (**=hypothetical values)

 

I'm out of my depth about coding, I'm just trying to use my imagination. But DE has worked to make modding ...modular. More modular than zaws and kits! Click-and-drag mods, builds, rename builds, hell-mint injections, copy-and-paste build linking and sharing.

I also do not believe it is a matter of storage space on a server. Maybe they put a limit to force players to learn to trade, I know that's why I learned to trade. Or they think it is good for the in-game economy. Or maybe Cephalon Samodeus threw a fit and restricted how many pieces of "art" players were allowed to own, all because DE refused to allow Samodeus to paint all rivens bubble-gum pink! Maybe they don't want players with money to have unlimited rivens?

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