Don't nerf AoE, instead

[Metalgearfox]

Buff headshots/vital point damage multiplier.

That way, aiming gets rewarded more.

[(PSN)Lollybomb]

That won't really solve anything.  Players will still nuke everything because it'll still be the easier and more effective method.  Why shoot one target, when I can shoot all targets just as effectively?

[-Krism-]

You can buff headshots as much you want, aoe will still kill more enemies faster

 

Seriously, before posting, ask yourself the question, if aoe still one shots enemies, is there really a point to buff anything else?

[----Legacy----]

It won't solve anything, even AoE deals overkill damage on most of the content anyways. To make things worse, it's a flashbang in the face of snipers while scoping since most people tend to run AoE with bright colors and even the "reduce allied vfx" isn't enough to prevent those random flashes.

[(XBOX)Ampathetiic]

When we're talking about overkill damage, your damage done per shot is effectively equal, so when choosing between a Rubico and a Bramma, the question becomes "would I rather kill one enemy per shot? or eight enemies per shot?"

[Miser_able]

even if they buffed headshots, precision weapons would be uneffected since the meta ones like rubico p already kill instantly.

[PublikDomain]

Let's say you buffed weakpoint damage 1,000x. Well, there's a minimum number of shots it takes to kill an enemy (1) where you can't go any faster no matter how much it's buffed. In 99% of the game we're already past that point, what's changed? Single-target weapons can now one-shot enemies (and could before), but AoE is still one-shotting entire groups of enemies. AoE is still going to be better.

[Petroklos]

So we'll go from being able to one-shot every Enemy with any decent Gun+Build, to being able to one-shot every Enemy with any decent Gun+Build but with bigger numbers.

First of all, the AoE kings need nerfs, this should not even be debated. They're significantly overtuned before we even consider how much they overshadow every other Weapon.

For AoEs in general, being able to blindly bullet jump from room to room, nuking them by just shooting at you feet, isn't how the game should be. Old Spin Attacks were like that and they got nerfed. Old Mesa and Saryn were like that and they got significantly Rework to require some Aim or Resource Management. If you at least had to manage your Self Stagger, AoE Weapons wouldn't be so mindless.

Getting full Self Stagger Immunity with just one Mod or Ability, removes the only real downside of AoE Weapons for no real trade off. One could argue that Ammo Economy is another downside of AoE Weapons, but if you don't have to use Cautious Shot in their Exilus Slot, you just slap in an Ammo Conversion instead and call it a day. If all sources of Self Stagger Resistance acted like Cautious Shot and they stacked with each other, it'd at least demand much more Build Investment to reach (near?) Self Stagger Immunity.

Then, I'd honestly just want Buffs to existing Single-Target-to-AoE options. For example, Thunderbolt and Concealed Explosives should be 100% Chance and their Damage should scale based on the Weapon's Mods. Gas and Electric should have their AoE increased to more closely match what AoE Weapons can do, instead of Grouping Abilities being mandatory to get any value out of them.

Converting Blast Status Effects to also deal AoE would be nice, but we're risking AoE Weapons double dipping on AoE effects with their innate Explosion plus Blast's new AoE Status Effect. Maybe all AoE Weapons could be converted to have forced Blast AoE Procs instead of innate AoEs.

[BiancaRoughfin]

They should just bring back Self Damage but instead of instantly killing the player it would leave them with 1 health and a brief invulnerability moment kinda like Shield Gate to give them time to take cover. This gating would only occur from Self Damage and have a 60 seconds cooldown.

Thats being Generous, by me it should just kill the player instantly.

[Tiltskillet]

Quote

Don't nerf AoE, instead

Quote

Buff headshots/vital point damage multiplier.

 

[Mr.NoodleHair]

I don't think AoE is the whole problem, though. In a looter shooter where you're incentivized to kill as many things as possible, AoE is going to naturally be the go-to. Single weapons can't compete with a Bramma, or a Kuva Zarr, or any other AoE weapon.

I think buffing the crap out of Eximus units is the way to make AoE slightly more balanced. As in they're resistant to all damage, and while they're alive, they make enemies near them resistant to all damage as well, or they give enemies around them certain buffs that lets them ignore shield gating.

AoE, in this case, is still good for clearing rooms, but will be just as good as any other weapon when dealing with hella powerful eximus units

[Voltage]

1 hour ago, Metalgearfox said:

Buff headshots/vital point damage multiplier.

That way, aiming gets rewarded more.

You know Tonkor (and other AoE options) can headshot right?

[(NSW)Greybones]

Hm? The AoE meta is fine; people use it because it’s lovely and does what they want it to do. If someone wanted to use single target, they would and the grind will still happen, but AoE lets it happen that bit more optimally, which is what the game is all about, doncha know

edit: 🤔 Multiplayer with randos can suffer for it, but buffing single target isn’t going to make it that different

[Josh486]

It wouldn’t help at all, headshots are already a x4 multiplier, making them deal more more damage won’t help. 

[Berzerkules]

I don't understand why everyone has a hard on for nerfing aoe. 

It wouldn't change anything. Since our basic farms are against low level enemies people would just move on to any of the dozens of other ways to speed clear missions. 

[Darkduprey]

Il y a 1 heure, Metalgearfox a dit :

Buff headshots/vital point damage multiplier.

That way, aiming gets rewarded more.

And that would be useful because?...

In any relevant content outside of what people push just for personnal challenge, we can already one shot targets.

More damage is useless if you already one shot.

[Hypernaut1]

Don't nerf AoE, buff enemies resistance to it instead. AoE should be for trash mobs and trash mobs only. 

[Soy77]

don't try to change warframe.

instead enjoy it for the horde shooter it is.

 

you want steak, don't go to a vegan restaurant.

[Surbusken]

As to OP's line of thinking, you need to create gameplay that has a point to it.

So for instance you add NPCs that can only be headshot with precision weapons.

That way singelshot has a point, AOE has a point.

 

Same way each damage type has to have a point. It all starts with a notion of meaningful gameplay. Or all mods, focus school and so on.

Does anyone want k-drives added when they can fly. Does anyone want to use k-drives as movement on tiny maps. It's malpractice.

You don't go adding something just cuz', first you find out what the point even is. Then you have to decide if and how it can be fun.

Adding railjack as a way to manually transport friends off the surface off of open world maps. That's crazy talk. The whole game is based on quick loading maps, warping in and out.

Even if they had been able to do it, who is going to stand around for 15 minutes waiting for a ride in warframe?

 

 

[Leqesai]

2 hours ago, BiancaRoughfin said:

They should just bring back Self Damage but instead of instantly killing the player it would leave them with 1 health and a brief invulnerability moment kinda like Shield Gate to give them time to take cover. This gating would only occur from Self Damage and have a 60 seconds cooldown.

Thats being Generous, by me it should just kill the player instantly.

This is a good suggestion.

 

The only realistic way to balance AOE damage is to apply a cost to the player. The stumble mechanic is not very troublesome (especially since it can be fully mitigated) so AOE has steadily grown in popularity ever since it was introduced. Self damage really is the only viable solution IMO.

[(NSW)Greybones]

Here’s a fun one; self damage should remain gone, but self-staggers should de-rank the player’s equipment and “Mastery” rank

edit: 🤔 Or self hits, rather, since the stagger won’t always be a thing.

It can be a randomly-chosen piece of equipment in the arsenal as well (or maybe all of the equipment)

[----Legacy----]

7 minutes ago, Leqesai said:

This is a good suggestion.

 

The only realistic way to balance AOE damage is to apply a cost to the player. The stumble mechanic is not very troublesome (especially since it can be fully mitigated) so AOE has steadily grown in popularity ever since it was introduced. Self damage really is the only viable solution IMO.

To make things better, the biggest complaint against self damage (insta kills) would still be nullified by shield gating, so there is no excuse to not bring it back.

[PublikDomain]

9 minutes ago, ----Legacy---- said:

To make things better, the biggest complaint against self damage (insta kills) would still be nullified by shield gating, so there is no excuse to not bring it back.

Self-damage might even be enough to avoid further changes to the ammo economies or range/falloffs. It'd also be a good opportunity to revisit shield gating as a whole as well to reduce the current mechanics abuse.

[Numerikuu]

2 hours ago, Tiltskillet said:

 

*Sees Banshee icon*

[Tiltskillet]

1 minute ago, (NSW)Greybones said:

Here’s a fun one; self damage should remain gone, but self-staggers should de-rank the player’s equipment and “Mastery” rank

Ordis:  Oh no!  You've been caught in your own blast radius, Tenno!

[roll 1d6...]

1.  You're staggered

2.  Your Warframe dies

3.  You lose any accumulated mastery in that weapon

4.  One random equipped weapon, arcane, or cosmetic is destroyed

5.  Three random equipped mods are destroyed

6.  The auto-install button is activated on your frame and all equipped weapons, and the Randomize button on all appearance tabs