Yareli is not the worst Warframe in the game (spoiler alert: it's Caliban)

[CRCGamer]

32 minutes ago, KitMeHarder said:

IMO it's a three-way race between Caliban, Nyx, and Hydroid for the worst frame in the game

Hold up. Nyx is nowhere near worst though she has a play style that isn't conducive to big room clearing DPS which is what the game has devolved into. You just replace her 1 or 3 with another ability and move on. Generally I prefer replacing Chaos personally. Mind Control can nab a eximus unit or other things with which to tilt a fight. Her two with only 125% power strength fully strips all armor and shields. Her fourth ability with augment in conjunction with adaptation can give one close to a million effective health while still being mobile. Though most builds running an augment for a replacement ability will have around a half million durability instead. She does quite well for herself as a weapons platform as long as the energy holds out. So yeah she has a slight dinner plate addiction in very high level content. She simply is a fairly simple CC frame in a game where crowd control that doesn't kill has been phased out of meta and power creep has made anything that doesn't kill entire rooms in an eyeblink "bad". And once you replace her 1 or 3 with something more useful to the current meta she's very usable.

[CosoMalvadoNG]

I would still do some tweaks to hydroid, although I would like his 4th ability to be completely redone.

Change passive to 100% chance.

Tempest Barrage: It's not that bad compared to other first abilities.

Tidal Surge: Change it to a wave similar to sevagoth 1st ability (don't launch yourself) but keep the function of gathering enemies.

Undertow: Only launch yourself with Tidal Surge if you are turned into a puddle first. 

Tentacle Swarm: Either make it an aura ability or just replace it with something else, as long as hydroid has better mobility (I usually change this with some helminth ability). 

Edited April 16, 2023 by CosoMalvadoNG

[RichardKam]

59分钟前 , CRCGamer 说:

Hold up. Nyx is nowhere near worst though she has a play style that isn't conducive to big room clearing DPS which is what the game has devolved into. You just replace her 1 or 3 with another ability and move on. Generally I prefer replacing Chaos personally. Mind Control can nab a eximus unit or other things with which to tilt a fight. Her two with only 125% power strength fully strips all armor and shields. Her fourth ability with augment in conjunction with adaptation can give one close to a million effective health while still being mobile. Though most builds running an augment for a replacement ability will have around a half million durability instead. She does quite well for herself as a weapons platform as long as the energy holds out. So yeah she has a slight dinner plate addiction in very high level content. She simply is a fairly simple CC frame in a game where crowd control that doesn't kill has been phased out of meta and power creep has made anything that doesn't kill entire rooms in an eyeblink "bad". And once you replace her 1 or 3 with something more useful to the current meta she's very usable.

No, trust me Nyx is the worst. Nyx Prime has been my favorite waifu for a long time. Don't use her Tenno. No way.

Better don't tell people how to use Nyx to do archon interception solo in 9 mins, or how to solo the entire SP chart, or how to cheese every bosses in this game including lich and acolytes and stuff. Some secrets are better left hidden. Hush.......

[LordOfThePovos]

3 minutes ago, RichardKam said:

Better don't tell people how to use Nyx to do archon interception solo in 9 mins, or how to solo the entire SP chart, or how to cheese every bosses in this game including lich and acolytes and stuff. Some secrets are better left hidden.

share your nyx fashion frame or I share the secrets :p

Edited April 16, 2023 by LordOfThePovos

[Hypernaut1]

1 hour ago, (PSN)thowed said:

Why does Atlas always get left out of these discussions?  Id rather play Hydroid or Yarelli any day than run around hoping my power punch kills the strong enemies while my armor drains faster than a water bottle with a hole at the bottom.

It's not trendy to hate in Atlas yet because he's forgettable. 

[trst]

2 hours ago, quxier said:

Damage boost of 2nd is very small. Just cast 4th to armor strip. There might be some synergy with lifted status (school, mods etc) but I'm not sure if it's worth it with potentially flying enemies.

Free DR is very small. For that level (narmer bounties) you won't even notice it. And it doesn't work with Adaptation (no faster stacks gain or something).

Shield gain is very inconsistent. When I've been testing it I may get very small amount of shield then Sentients go somewhere taking shield regen.

A damage boost is still a damage boost and it has a higher base range than his 4. Lifted also isn't much of a detriment especially in enclosed spaces which is the majority of the game. So it at the least has some situations where it's more practical to use than his 4.

Free DR is still DR and synergizes with his own shield gating synergy from his 3. At the minimum it stretches out how long his shields hold before hitting shield gating.

And that's not been my experience with his 3 at all. There is a range where his Sentients can be too far to give you shields but too close to teleport back but most tilesets are too small for that to happen much at all. The real problem with his 3 is how much energy it costs to sustain all three and balancing enough duration into his build.

 

But even if he can be justifiably be called a "bad" frame he's still absolutely not the worst when we have Hydroid still flopping around. Or frames like Loki, Trinity, and Inaros with their glaring issues are far worse off than Caliban.

[taiiat]

idunno, Sentient Wrath is pretty good. as long as the Enemies aren't just immune to fun, ofcourse.
it's similar to Sea Snares, but is more focused on controlling large groups of Enemies, while Sea Snares is aiming towards singular or small groups.

but most Warframe Abilities suck against Enemies that are immune to fun, so that's pretty much equal for everyone.

 

and ofcourse, the answer to People that dislike Lifted Status..... idunno, there's nothing to say other than git gud or something
it's a beneficial effect, it's up to the Player to be capable of utilizing their tools.

 

 

both Warframes would fall into the clunky bucket, i'd agree, but Yareli is far more if you ask me. and the Hoverboard is just primo clunk city.

[(PSN)Hopper_Orouk]

6 hours ago, sunderthefirmament said:

Merulina is wildly unsuited for the tilesets we have in the game.  Let me just head off your claims of "but if you invest the time to master it" with a "it's not worth it, and it's really, really, really buggy."

This is what i mean, i should've explained further but this is not a Yareli thread tho.

8 hours ago, Tiltskillet said:

Are you not up to date on the Yareli boosts, Hopper?

Personally I'd say inaros is the worst by a wide margin.  Caliban's below average, but I'm not sure if he's bottom 5.  He's inordinately frustrating though since there are several obvious things wrong with him and he's received close to zero attention.  And unlike Inaros it's not like DE has the excuse of Cali being popular despite those shortcomings.

I have seen her buffs, but Merulina still has the most amount of bugs

[(PSN)Hopper_Orouk]

4 hours ago, LordOfThePovos said:

Ok I hear you but check this out:

Caliban is a warframe that is made out of sentient parts designed to resemble a sentient, some might even call him an imposter sentient...

A lot of people who were aggrieved by Caliban's lack of playability versus effort to acquire normally feel the need to vent about it...  

The fact that Digital Extremes seems to have "forgotten" this warframe while at the same time he was pulling low sales is suspicious some might say...

Looking at all this data and points made so far point to the fact that something more devious is at play and I am calling an emergency meeting to discuss any hidden meaning to it...

 need I say anymore?

6 hours ago, gamingchair1121 said:

dude.

yareli is top tier.

how do you even think she's bad

Merulina guys, I hate merulina...i know she got buffed and her bubbles got buffed to increase damage but they still didn't fix her kit

[Slayer-.]

Nope, the worst Warframe imo is the one you can't seem to get a grasp of or don't understand it yet until later on when you have an epiphany moment and think ok wasn't that bad, there are players out there will be able to play and understand other frames better than the other player and be able to make them into a killing machine given the right circumstances. 

[Marvelous_A]

Caliban's ult has a really bad execution that completely outweighs its powerful defense-stripping effect. An unnecessary and pointlessly long animation lock is disgusting.

 

4 hours ago, (PSN)thowed said:

Why does Atlas always get left out of these discussions?  Id rather play Hydroid or Yarelli any day than run around hoping my power punch kills the strong enemies while my armor drains faster than a water bottle with a hole at the bottom.

His 1st still kinda works even in SP and that's pretty much everything about him. 

Edited April 16, 2023 by Marvelous_A

[RichardKam]

46分钟前 , Marvelous_A 说:

Caliban's ult has a really bad execution that completely outweighs its powerful defense-stripping effect. An unnecessary and pointlessly long animation lock is disgusting.

 

His 1st still kinda works even in SP and that's pretty much everything about him. 

Well his 1 packs a punch (hehe), gives him brief invincibility, and even CC with augment. It even costs 0 energy as well.

Caliban ult is an area armor strip. Who else can do that better? Nekros. You replace his ult with terrify and he actually becomes a better Caliban. 

[KitMeHarder]

5 hours ago, CRCGamer said:

Hold up. Nyx is nowhere near worst though

Nyx is the most overrated frame in this game and she is easily one of the worst. I don't know if it's rose-tinted-glasses or what, but these forums love to overrate her. She has exactly all of the problems I bullet pointed in my comment. So lets break down her abilities.

• Passive - An insignificant accuracy decrease for enemies, many of which this has no effect on. And it even has no effect on many gun wielding enemies, as accuracy has such a different impact on each weapon. (Try Heavy Caliber on various weapons, you'll see it has very unequal penalties.) And it does nothing during her 4.
• 1 - Worthless. Literally the best case you can make for it is using it on an Ancient Healer... But you'd be 1000% better off just using a specter you can tell to hold still.
• 2 - The low strength requirement means nothing when it comes to such a pitiful enemy cap, as well as a duration most enemies that you care about stripping, will quickly become immune to. There's no place for this ability in a age of Gaze, Terrify, Pillage, Fracturing Crush, Tharros Strike, Unairu, etc...
• 3 - A soft CC that has little reliability in protecting you, augment reliant because of it's 75 energy cost, AND you can slap radiation damage/status duration on any AoE weapon for a better effect. Cedo, Epitaph, Cyanex, etc...
• 4 - Plenty of frames do damage mitigation/status immunity better, and they don't have a horrendous movement penalty (the operator does not fix this). And even on a Primed Flow and 175% efficiency build, it only gives her a max of 319k hit points (3 mods and a massive energy drain).

Now lets get to frames that completely invalidate her.

• Xaku
  • Passive w/ 4 active - 75% damage/status immunity to all direct damage and 75% damage reduction to AoE damage. No movement penalty.
  • 1- A significantly better weapon damage buff than the worthless and almost never active one Nyx's 4 gives. It's also easily replaceable with helminth.
  • 2 - One of the best damage abilities in the game.
  • 3 - A significantly better version of Nyx's 1, 2, AND her 3. And then it even has another ability on top of that.
  • 4 - A movement speed buff with a damage debuff to make his 2 even better. It also gives your abilities near infinite duration, plus all the build diversity that comes with it. Annnd it's the best box breaker in the game
  • Etc...
• Revenant
  • Slap on Tharros Strike and you literally have a carbon copy of Nyx that is 10x better. As well as having a movement ability that deals true damage.
• Etc...

"And once you replace her 1 or 3 with something more useful to the current meta she's very usable."

So again, everything is usable... doesn't mean you should use it. There are 52 frames... if a frames does nothing unique and deals no (ability) damage, you can't say they aren't worthless.

6 hours ago, CRCGamer said:

Her fourth ability with augment in conjunction with adaptation can give one close to a million effective health while still being mobile.

Tested it multiple times in the simulacrum today, Adaptation has no effect on her 4 from what I saw.

6 hours ago, CRCGamer said:

she has a play style that isn't conducive to big room clearing DPS which is what the game has devolved into.

I would not call it a "devolution". Killing will always be more fun and engaging than CC and the like.

6 hours ago, CRCGamer said:

She does quite well for herself as a weapons platform

Not to mention the frames that specialize in this category (Gauss, Mirage, Volt, etc...).

[Rathalio]

4 hours ago, KitMeHarder said:

Nyx is the most overrated frame in this game and she is easily one of the worst.

That's simply because she used to be the queen in the old CC meta a few years ago and had been for a while but then she got overshadowed by new warframes and new meta game. And her small rework just made her 2nd ability useful, for the rest the damage buff when you exit you 4th ability is pointless since it expires as soon as you go back in bubble mode (would have been great with the augment otherwise). These tweaks were definitely not enough to make her meta again. That's mostly nostalgia speaking when people try to argue she is strong. She is definitely playable but really not strong at all in todays standards.

I would love to see her back in the meta though but her gameplay didn't age well and is slow af...

Edited April 16, 2023 by Rathalio
fixed typo

[-Krism-]

9 hours ago, quxier said:

Hydroid can boost your loot (4th), can soft/hard cc (1st or 4th) and its passive doesn't disappear.

We already have other frame far better for loot, & for CC, also his passive is 100% useless

[quxier]

6 hours ago, trst said:

A damage boost is still a damage boost

Yes, and apples are apples... so?

Doing for example (!) at base 1 000 damage and an ability boost it to 1 001 is damage boost. It's however not worth spending any energy and time (potentially locking your frame) where you can just deal that damage other ways.

6 hours ago, trst said:

Lifted also isn't much of a detriment especially in enclosed spaces which is the majority of the game.

For enclosed places like small corridors? Sure.

For majority of games it's not enclosed spaces.

6 hours ago, trst said:

Free DR is still DR and synergizes with his own shield gating synergy from his 3. At the minimum it stretches out how long his shields hold before hitting shield gating.

Again, it's still argument like with +1 damage above.

6 hours ago, trst said:

And that's not been my experience with his 3 at all. There is a range where his Sentients can be too far to give you shields but too close to teleport back but most tilesets are too small for that to happen much at all.

Then you are lucky or I'm unlucky.

6 hours ago, trst said:

But even if he can be justifiably be called a "bad" frame he's still absolutely not the worst when we have Hydroid still flopping around. Or frames like Loki, Trinity, and Inaros with their glaring issues are far worse off than Caliban.

I gave my arguments pro Hydroid.

Loki while being from old era it's still not bad. It's however more niche frame, which is fine. When playing spy or similar he can go invisible or switch to target. Then he have strong CC in form of disarming. Sure it doesn't work with Eximus but that's the case  probably with lots of frames.

Trinity is support frame. Nowadays they make frame goes something more than such things. However is she bad? I don't think so.

Inaros would be called bad but it's same case with Caliban - 2 abilities fine, passive & other 2 abilities are bad or not great. Inaros being only HP based (no shield) isn't something great but it's the case nowadays that enemies deal so much damage that you are going to have some sort of immunity or ridiculous ehp.

5 hours ago, taiiat said:

it's similar to Sea Snares, but is more focused on controlling large groups of Enemies, while Sea Snares is aiming towards singular or small groups.

Sea snares (with recent updates) can stuck to Eximus, not CC them but giving you damage boost part (or something).

3 minutes ago, -Krism- said:

9 hours ago, quxier said:

Hydroid can boost your loot (4th), can soft/hard cc (1st or 4th) and its passive doesn't disappear.

We already have other frame far better for loot & for CC

That doesn't mean Hydroid cannot get loot ability.

3 minutes ago, -Krism- said:

also his passive is 100% useless

Nope. Not sure if it's very useful but at least it's there (50% chance) while caliban's passive with Adaptation JUST DON'T EXIST.

[(PSN)Joylesstuna]

10 hours ago, KitMeHarder said:

IMO it's a three-way race between Caliban, Nyx, and Hydroid for the worst frame in the game (and Hydroid relies on his augments to not be a definitive last.). Most other frames mentioned in this thread don't even get close to how bad these 3 are.

• No reliable damaging ability (there's plenty of room for utility frames in this game, but these 3 ain't it).
• 99% of the time their individual abilities (and even their wholistic kits) are done better by other frames.
• They're not even frames that are good and "only" have merit in endurance, like Citrine, Ash, etc...
• There's a difference between usable and good. I have a Caliban build that does just fine in SP (kuva survival)... Does he do it better than any other frame? Nope. Does he even have a (worthwhile) unique trait to make up for the lower performance (i.e Desecrate)? No... Everything in this game is usable... doesn't mean you should use it.

You did not just bring nyx into this.... Is she boring? yes. Bad? Not even close. I read your reasoning and other then your points on her 1st ability, you are completely wrong. But its ok to be wrong. Xakus armor strip is terrible compared to hers. There is a huge difference between not liking and frame and one being bad. 

Edited April 16, 2023 by (PSN)Joylesstuna

[-Krism-]

1 hour ago, quxier said:

Nope. Not sure if it's very useful but at least it's there

I just said it's useless, & you answer with "No, but it's not useful"

10/10 argument

[(PSN)Madurai-Prime]

Every frame is great with Ensnare lol.

I tried it on Caliban and he's much better. 

[KitMeHarder]

56 minutes ago, (PSN)Joylesstuna said:

You did not just bring nyx into this

Then articulate why I should use her over the other 51 frames. Either in part or wholistically.

58 minutes ago, (PSN)Joylesstuna said:

Xakus armor strip is terrible compared to hers.

Hmmm. Two near permanent 33.6m circles, which full strip through walls, that VIPs can't build resistance to, can be made into invulnerable aggro draws, etc... Or 6 enemies in LoS, for 11 seconds...

[sunderthefirmament]

1 hour ago, (PSN)Joylesstuna said:

You did not just bring nyx into this.... Is she boring? yes. Bad? Not even close. I read your reasoning and other then your points on her 1st ability, you are completely wrong. But its ok to be wrong. Xakus armor strip is terrible compared to hers. There is a huge difference between not liking and frame and one being bad. 

She’s bad. Mind Control is a meme. Psychic Bolts has been outclassed by Helminth abilities and has a clunky target limit. Chaos is overrated and unreliable. And absorb is useless, even with the augment. 
 

Xaku eats her alive, though I am of the opinion that there’s a time and place for most defense stripping abilities. They all have their uses, even Ember’s glitchy 3. 

[Felsagger]

Some of you forces my hand but what I've read here convinced me of doing it. 

 

I'm going to consider the phrase "GIT GUD U NUBS." If this continues.  

Every frame that is mentioned here are extraordinary tools if they are worked with the meta and actualization of the version. Nyx, Atlas, Kaxu, Sevagoth and Caliban are considered top tiers and highly destructive frames. 

Edited April 16, 2023 by Felsagger

[(PSN)Joylesstuna]

9 minutes ago, KitMeHarder said:

Then articulate why I should use her over the other 51 frames. Either in part or wholistically.

Hmmm. Two near permanent 33.6m circles, which full strip through walls, that VIPs can't build resistance to, can be made into invulnerable aggro draws, etc... Or 6 enemies in LoS, for 11 seconds...

Psychic bolts is not los and hits enemies around corners and thought cover. Xakus strip has to be put on ground in one spot . Chaos never was unreliable. The only time an enemy will target you is if an enemy is extremely close AND there is no enemy for them to target or if they are an exilus. Chaos is one of the few cc abilities that indirectly cc eximus as well. Nyx is used for level cap for a for a reason, because she is good.

Edited April 16, 2023 by (PSN)Joylesstuna

[quxier]

45 minutes ago, -Krism- said:

I just said it's useless, & you answer with "No, but it's not useful"

10/10 argument

Well, you started with "it's 100% useless because I think so". No proof. Nothing. You don't even tried that feature. My proofs are self evident so I don't need to proof anything.

 

[Felsagger]

Are you guys going to throw away frames without even trying their respective meta? 

 

............Jesus Christ.......