This game needs actual endgame content.

[4thBro]

And by this, I mean, content with max level enemies, and rewards for being able to do this type of content.

 

I don't know if this is going to sound elitist of me... (which is generally the preface of elitist comments, but here we go)

But I get triggered when I see random people sweeping through an Arbitration with an Arca Plasmor, against Grineer (and we all know damn well it's like, pure viral or something), and they have 95% damage done and probably have ZERO survivability... but it's okay. Because it's just Arbies. Even though they were supposed to be hard content, endgame, etc... but they just aren't.

 

I get triggered when it's like... how do I even put it...

I spend so much time planning out my Frames to be able to not just KILL max level armored Grineer, but also be able to handle Corpus (nullifiers) as they are a whole other obstacle type, then also be able to SURVIVE these two factions (and this is relevant because of orokin faction maps), and I look around and it's just like... ... ...

There is NOWHERE to utilize this effort that I put in.

I look around, and it's just Arca Plasmor users (not always literally, but this gun is my meme example) sweeping through a room of Grineer, because everything is so low level that it doesn't matter if you build poorly or plan poorly.

 

Even in the highest starting level content, it's just, "Okay, we're staying 5 minutes then extracting." Because... well, why not, I guess?

And even for those that WANT to fight max level challenging content, NOBODY wants to sit in a game for LITERALLY EIGHT HOURS just to get to it. And then, there's not even a reward for it???

It's just so bizarre. And so frustrating for those that want to be an upper-end gamer. IS THAT ELITIST TO SAY? Honestly... I don't think so. I know many people will see it as such, but I'd have that debate with them.

 

If you want to play casually, nothing is stopping you from doing that.

However, if you want to play on a higher level, the game IS stopping you from doing that. And that's my focus here.

 

If you wanna sweep through low level Grineer with a poor gun choice just because you like it and it makes you feel good, by all means, do that.

But why can't people like me build smart, build strong, and then go test it out and get rewarded if it works?

 

Just ugh, dude.

I dunno. Whatevs, lol. Cheers!

[Felsagger]

Here we go again. 

Edited June 17, 2023 by Felsagger

[4thBro]

2 minutes ago, Felsagger said:

Here we go again. 

Yeah, I figured this was gonna be one of those "here we go again" topics, but I mean... What can I say?

Here we go again, I guess.

 

And now I'm here, so it's just "here we go" for me.

[Felsagger]

"Should I remind you the definition of insanity?"

[(PSN)Hopper_Orouk]

This community will never be satisfied.

[Felsagger]

Just now, (PSN)Hopper_Orouk said:

This community will never be satisfied.

You understood. 

[Slayer-.]

8 minutes ago, 4thBro said:

And by this, I mean, content with max level enemies, and rewards for being able to do this type of content.

 

I don't know if this is going to sound elitist of me... (which is generally the preface of elitist comments, but here we go)

But I get triggered when I see random people sweeping through an Arbitration with an Arca Plasmor, against Grineer (and we all know damn well it's like, pure viral or something), and they have 95% damage done and probably have ZERO survivability... but it's okay. Because it's just Arbies. Even though they were supposed to be hard content, endgame, etc... but they just aren't.

 

I get triggered when it's like... how do I even put it...

I spend so much time planning out my Frames to be able to not just KILL max level armored Grineer, but also be able to handle Corpus (nullifiers) as they are a whole other obstacle type, then also be able to SURVIVE these two factions (and this is relevant because of orokin faction maps), and I look around and it's just like... ... ...

There is NOWHERE to utilize this effort that I put in.

I look around, and it's just Arca Plasmor users (not always literally, but this gun is my meme example) sweeping through a room of Grineer, because everything is so low level that it doesn't matter if you build poorly or plan poorly.

 

Even in the highest starting level content, it's just, "Okay, we're staying 5 minutes then extracting." Because... well, why not, I guess?

And even for those that WANT to fight max level challenging content, NOBODY wants to sit in a game for LITERALLY EIGHT HOURS just to get to it. And then, there's not even a reward for it???

It's just so bizarre. And so frustrating for those that want to be an upper-end gamer. IS THAT ELITIST TO SAY? Honestly... I don't think so. I know many people will see it as such, but I'd have that debate with them.

 

If you want to play casually, nothing is stopping you from doing that.

However, if you want to play on a higher level, the game IS stopping you from doing that. And that's my focus here.

 

If you wanna sweep through low level Grineer with a poor gun choice just because you like it and it makes you feel good, by all means, do that.

But why can't people like me build smart, build strong, and then go test it out and get rewarded if it works?

 

Just ugh, dude.

I dunno. Whatevs, lol. Cheers!

 

2 minutes ago, Felsagger said:

Here we go. 

The player does sound triggered. 

They want unique stuff for elitist well-planned group play, I guess it sounds like a dummy spit of sorts against players who want to play for a short time.

Me, I do 2-hour runs myself and get bored, I don't expect special rewards because I can go Solo for two hours or more, I get bored outa my brain.

I seriously don't know how a group can go eight hours at a time, host migration must be crazy at times.

[Felsagger]

4 minutes ago, Slayer-. said:

 

The player does sound triggered. 

They want unique stuff for elitist well-planned group play, I guess it sounds like a dummy spit of sorts against players who want to play for a short time.

Me, I do 2-hour runs myself and get bored, I don't expect special rewards because I can go Solo for two hours or more, I get bored outa my brain.

I seriously don't know how a group can go eight hours at a time, host migration must be crazy at times.

 

It's the same crap of staying on a clutch for 12 hours straight with the risk of getting banned from trade chat a week or just a way of making platinum fast enough. 

I'm tired of the same horse excrement to be honest. 

Edited June 17, 2023 by Felsagger

[4thBro]

13 minutes ago, Slayer-. said:

 

The player does sound triggered. 

They want unique stuff for elitist well-planned group play, I guess it sounds like a dummy spit of sorts against players who want to play for a short time.

Me, I do 2-hour runs myself and get bored, I don't expect special rewards because I can go Solo for two hours or more, I get bored outa my brain.

I seriously don't know how a group can go eight hours at a time, host migration must be crazy at times.

It sounds like you agree with me, despite prefacing this with... what you prefaced it with.

[0_The_F00l]

While i can kinda understand what you mean ,

You have to realise that warframe is a live service game ,

And endgame is always going to be a temporary phase.

What can be fixed is the powercreep we have seen and that will need a proper stat squish to work.

[Felsagger]

11 minutes ago, 0_The_F00l said:

 

You have to realise that warframe is a live service game ,

And endgame is always going to be a temporary phase.

 

Correct.

In my opinion, the thread ended here.

The player decides what is endgame for him or for her. It can be fashion frame, trolling the fanboys on a random forum board, staying 12 hours on a game repeating the same thing, making builds for fat numbers or power creeping, collection of everything, be completionist, be the fastest speed runner, find out of map glitches on the game, be the player with the greater numbers of kills or survivability in a particular game type among many other things. 

 

 

[4thBro]

14 minutes ago, Felsagger said:

Correct.

In my opinion, the thread ended here.

The player decides what is endgame for him or for her. It can be fashion frame, trolling the fanboys on a random forum board, staying 12 hours on a game repeating the same thing, making builds for fat numbers or power creeping, collection of everything, be completionist, be the fastest speed runner, find out of map glitches on the game, be the player with the greater numbers of kills or survivability in a particular game type among many other things. 

 

 

I agree that the player must make their own "endgame," in the sense of... find what it is that you play Warframe for.

I DO agree with this.

 

But you're kind of [intentionally?] missing my point. Let me try putting it this way:

There's this WHOLE ENTIRE AREA of Warframe (endgame character building) that is currently being completely unused by the game itself. A lot of players want to play Warframe for this. But they can't.

 

Think about what YOU play Warframe for. Now, imagine that, instead of being able to do that, you instead can't do that, even though that content has been datamined as "being under development" since the game came out.

Try to imagine that. Please.

[trst]

Sadly the chances of getting content that warrants an entire optimized loadout is an absolute zero. DE doesn't want it, a lot (most?) of the community doesn't actually want it, and the game can't even support it without massive nerfs (which DE and a lot of player's don't want).

DE wants the game to be casual friendly plus it's easier to market/monetize a GAAS appealing to such an audience.

You only see complaints the moment anything even slightly difficult enters the game. Which historically only sees nerfs either directly to the content or indirectly via powercreep with no balance adjustments the other way. As well a lot of mechanics have been effectively deleted from the game like Ancient/Scorpion grabs, effective enemy knockdowns, Manics in general, and a number of effective Eximus/heavy unit abilities.

And powercreep is at such a point that many systems are complete binaries where you can choose to take damage or turn off enemy damage, same goes for enemy HP and even AI for the most part (and you can have all of these turned off at once). And when the community acts the way it does over non-impactful nerfs (like the massive drama over the AOE ""nerfs"") there's no way the game would survive an actual rebalancing and massive stat squish.

 

The best bet at seeing anything remotely close is more content like Archon hunts or systems outside of the standard gameplay like Duviri or Kahl. But those have their own problems and aren't actually an answer to the desired content being asked for here.

[(PSN)slightconfuzzled]

Uh, I sympathise with frustrations you might have. You also don't seem that elitist to me, per say... More, that you want something highly specific and centred around your own specific and niche preferences, which by definition may be unrealistic. 

Like even the term "end game content" carries around a lot of baggage with t, because peoples ideas around it can be so different and not just compete but conflict. Like what do you mean by survivability? You mentioned how you spend time planning out your build to survive, and no where to utilise the amount of effort you put in... but what of the player who views end game content as being able to survive without effort or builds being relevant and just pure mechanical skill via movement? Like if you just like fighting against max levelled enemies, SP Circuit scales pretty fast, confronts you with a variety of different mission types, and has an RNG element. Or if you dislike RNG element, Cascade is pretty fast in reaching max levels too. Except you then start bringing up rewards... Which adds a whole other layer of complexity to such matters. 

One persons end game may be a mode with max level enemies, which requires you to use every tool at your disposal to max proficiency. Warframe, Operator, Archwing, K-Drive, Railjack, all in one quest. Another is 6x3 Tridolon. Another is the idea of the Tungsten Path. Another is PVP. Some peoples definitions may be of an inclusive manner, or exclusive, they may lean towards the subjective (this game has a few different end game activities depending), versus objective, (its definitely this mode, because this reason!). 

For myself, personally, the way I view what Warframe attempts to be, its model, its never going to be a game I play for its challenge, as a main or central appeal. I think it doesn't really fit with the game model. I think its suppose to have a relatively low entry barrier, its challenge ceiling can't get too high, at least as far as being tied to rewards. Thats not to say there can't be challenge, but like... I think of a game like Monster Hunter World, that I think there are some similarities and differences with. A lot of people played Monster Hunter World, but not a lot of them say, soloed Master Rank Behemoth/Extremoth. There is a lot for people to do before getting anywhere near that though, and yeah there are also a lot of Warframe players that can't solo Profit Taker or Tridolon but... I view those as much much easier mechanically, but in a way that makes total sense in context. There are also some games with a higher barrier entry too, but a lot of such variables are relevant to how challenge is created. 

Again for myself, Warframe in the subjective sense, already has end game activities, as far as how I personally define it, but it will never have something like Extemoth or super bosses, or what some other games end game may be to some individual players. Have to consider the model, accessibility of rewards, the nature of grinding them for said rewards, possible trade aspects. Plus ongoing releases. Like I consider SP Circuit a decent end game activity too, shaving times off PT and Tridolon decent as well, but I don't consider them exclusive or objectively end game, because I think Warframe has so much variety within it, that people could carve out respective end game activities for themselves. There might be players out there who can play the Shawzin so masterfully, one player could suggest a song in secret, they could play it and those who don't know would identify it with ease. Some players will will be masters at level cap Disruption and decimating Demos fast. Or someone who can do that across all the games activities, even the unpopular ones. Depends. 

So even if the game, hypothetically made something close to what you consider endgame... such threads will never end, because someones else's definition and preferences. I personally like challenge, but I also like and think I prefer Warframe being relatively accessible to people of any skill level, that can overcompensate with tools/gear or team work. Plus they tend to add stuff here and there. I think SP Circuit is a nice addition, with next update we are getting those extra Portals that are said to be a bit more difficult. A third Orb Mother may be fun/challenging. More so than PT? Not sure, maybe on par once you deal with its mechanics. I use to think PT was hard when I first ran it, but now I find it relaxing and calming. Though, always looking to shave seconds off my time as well. 

[RichardKam]

The only endgame is fashion frame.

Last offer. Non-negotiable. Deal?

[BR31]

Sp disruption level cap is 2.5 h. Void cascade is a bit over an hour. Sp curcuit is about 1-1 20. Your 8 hours are outdated. Also endurance runs now get the most benefit ever (there's some debate about the old keys, but it was much more stationary). Sp fissures take a bit of time to get the maximum benefit, you stack with other multipliers. Sp farming on release was a bit better, but that's about it.   And your average arca user doesn't do any damage without a proper setup and is permanently dead in those settings Shruge. 

[SirKnum]

If you want something that needs decent builds that work against corrupted enemies and where you get rewarded for staying longer than I recommend Steel Path fissure missions. You get boosters every couple of rounds which will double even Steel Essence drops.

And you do not need to stay eight hours in a mission to reach level cap, in SP Circuit or SP Void Cascade it takes less than 90 minutes and about 2 to 2.5 hours in SP Disruption. Granted, Circuit level cap is obviously way easier than any other because you have a ton of decrees at that point but still a lot faster.

[(PSN)Joylesstuna]

It's probably never going to happen. However I would love a game mode (maybe survival or a horde type mode) where the enemies scales extremely quickly into the thousands. Don't wanna use random weapons in sp circuit just because it scales quickly. It wouldn't be about rewards I just want to test builds and weapons.

Edited June 17, 2023 by (PSN)Joylesstuna

[CatboyPrincess]

yeah i like your idea OP; another Steel Path, but this time Steel Path+, and the nodes start at level cap. (all of the nodes)

[Pakaku]

I couldn't think of anything less imaginative and bland than a level-cap end-game.

[Raqiya]

It's never going to happen. For this to happen Warframe would need a complete and I mean complete utter rebalance and at this point that is too much of a undertaking for their team.

1) Warframe's and builds would have to be nerfed to the ground which would cause players whine constantly about it.
2) Weapons would have to sit in a strict tier system in terms of damage output so that they can be balanced around enemy levels.

There's a lot more other stuff to consider and as you can see, it would be a lot of work for DE. It would include a lot of changes the player base wont like and then there would be people crying for the old game back and for their "Power Fantasy".

Edited June 17, 2023 by Raqiya
Easier to read.

[SneakyErvin]

3 hours ago, 4thBro said:

Because it's just Arbies. Even though they were supposed to be hard content, endgame, etc... but they just aren't.

They uh kinda were at one point in time. But then we got more power creep items, removal of self damage and so on.

And the same applies to many other things, like initial Fortuna, Profit-Taker, Railjack and so on. The problem is just that we creep further and further away from it with more and more power.

[(PSN)haphazardlynamed]

SP Circuit is kinda endgame

?do you have the time and resources to build Every Last weapon and warframe as SP effective? such that no matter what RNG shows up at Teshin's Cave you can make it?

 

[Raarsi]

2 hours ago, 4thBro said:

There's this WHOLE ENTIRE AREA of Warframe (endgame character building) that is currently being completely unused by the game itself. A lot of players want to play Warframe for this. But they can't.

I know, I miss lunaro too.

Joking aside, let me correct something for you.

2 hours ago, 4thBro said:

A lot of players on the forums want to play Warframe for this. But they can't.

Fix't, especially because people whining about how easy content is on the forums tend to be too self-indulged to realize that live service games need money, and making difficult or more challenging content will always result in a net monetary loss because it caters to such a tiny (yet still noisy) fraction of their total playerbase.  This goes harder on F2P games like Warframe because players wanting to do that sort of content will always be less inclined to spend any money on the game.

In short, if you want actual endgame, fashionframe is always there for you.  If you want hard content though, you really need to sell it in a way that would show how the game would make a good amount of money off it....at least more than some of those whales running around with arca plasmors or kuva nukes or whatever it is the cool kids are using these days.

Also, this reminds me of when AotZ first came out and DE was going on about wanting harder content by ramping up the levels on the Zariman story missions....I think I nearly got whiplash from how fast they 180'd on that after the complaints.

[(PSN)robotwars7]

by this point, DE have made it pretty clear that they are leaning more towards the power fantasy aspect of warframe; the game isn't supposed to be uber-difficult, it will have modes that are harder than others, but that isn't the focus. plus on the few occasions we've had actually difficulty, people rallied against it until it was reverted to being much easier (Zariman missions are a good example).

if it's challenge you're looking for, you may have to look elsewhere, because warframe doesn't have it.