Nightwave + alerts removal feedback

[Thrymm]

 

21 minutes ago, Graavarg said:

 

I think it is inherently stupid that players that DON'T like something and don't want to do something should be able to get it removed from the game. This "adapting everything towards the middle"-syndrome kills variation and makes everything "the same", not just in Warframe but in other games, and you can see the same destructive views IRL everywhere. If you don't like the missions, just don't do them. Doing them (voluntarily) and then complaining about it is sort of... well, I'm not going to say it.

Or maybe we should have a system where we vote on everything in Warframe and then simply remove all the content that doesn't get majority approval. What a brilliant idea... not!

I think it's inherently stupid that players that like something that others do not believe they are entitled to inflict it on others.  Keep in mind that this stuff doesn't go away with just simple forum whining.  It wasn't three or four loud voices that "got it removed". despite the vast majority enjoying something.  Rather, the participation or completion numbers, combined with a variety of other metrics(incompletes that could be from host migration, etc) had to have shown something amiss in such an activity to merit removing or reducing it---a few forum gripes simply doesn't accomplish these things all alone.

Besides, it's not removed.  You can start an endless survival today and finish sometime next week if you really want to stay in one that long.  No, it won't get you your weekly standing, but that in no way changes the way the missions work.

The way it is right now---with stuff like this not used for weekly challenges--actually offers this content for both parties in an even handed way.

[(PSN)BJwobbleDix]

NO. 100% No.    These "Elite" missions that are 1 hour long in one sitting with no checkpoint designs are awful concepts.  They are only Elite in the fact that you dont fall asleep. 

And this is NOT for everyone like youre stating.   You end up gating a lot of Nightwave standing (half a level) by creating a content that a majority of people loathed and it was clearly stated on here on these forums. 

The way to make a Survival mission Elite status is by having it a 20 or 30 minute mission that has debuffs on Tenno or major buffs on enemies.  Could even do things like "life support drops at double the rate" or "tenno that are downed lose overall life support."

Edited March 30, 2019 by (PS4)ImTooHungover

[(XBOX)Tornicade]

4 hours ago, NinjaFramer said:

Oh my gosh! You've been the best source of information I've seen on this Game. You're not judging, not critical, just very helpful.

Got a real problem though. I have Essential tremors and guiding through the levels can be a challenge at times. I started out with Excalibur, nice frame, but I've yet to master him. I tend to forget what he can do when I'm in the heat of battle. But that's on me. I should have started out as Volt. Running would be better than bullet jumping into doorframes. Lol. My problem is trying to keep up. The others will be waiting for me at extraction before I can get started or they're on the other side of the map which leaves me fighting for my life. Lol, but that's on me.

I'm having a blast but I sometimes get a player or two that are super critical of my "Style" lol. Rushing like others through the levels adds a level of stress that really causes me to really make mistakes. 

So, all in all, I've managed to make friends that are understanding. And really, I'm not that bad. I just can't fly through spy missions.

You've been super helpful. Thank you.

4 random people can be doing the same mission 4 different reasons...one might be scanner hunting..one might be affinity farming,one might be farming lockers and crates, and the 4th might be clearing node so they can do a mission on a connected node...DE made a huge change when they set up free roam squad leaving and another when they allowed certain mission types to have one tenno evac....if you like to farm than do so...if others are skipping kills to speed up mission thats on them....

On a side note when your relevelings items keep one at least one slot at max... then do defense missions as youll get squad affinity for others kills . If solo stick to stuff you can kill with that lower ranked weapon.   not sure why its so hard to find squads in dark sector missions as those have bonus xp by weapon type.....imo amann is better than hydron for xp and resources but people goto hydron cause they get relics and full squads...your equipment will typically rank up faster with a full squad.. At least in excavation, defense, mobile defense, and survival cause its more likely group will stay in affinity range.

 

Just wanted to add although i am just mr7 after 3 months.. I have 4 frames with 3 that have benn formad multiple times as wll as at least 7 weapons that were formad 3to 4 times...i am constantly ranking up weapons and my frames. I also like to get mileage out of my weapons so i have no need to rank up up new stuff just for mastery at this point

 

Edited March 30, 2019 by (XB1)Tornicade
Mr

[(XBOX)Tornicade]

1 hour ago, Graavarg said:

I think the biggest problem is the basic premise of the alerts, that is if "everyone" should be able to do "everything" or not. The driving force behind "maxing" stuff is strong, so the current three-tier level system doesn't really work as a separator as most players try to do all missions regardless of being equipped or experienced enough to do them. This was especially apparent with the 1-hour missions, where you had a lot of players joining that barely could manage 20 minutes. Which is perfectly fine (trying out tougher missions), but which also was extremely irritating for higher MRs which did not want to rinse-and-repeat due to half the squad having dropped out at the half-time mark.

However, if the missions gets adapted for "everyone", everyone will actually end up with less. Less variation, less difficulty, less challenge. Less "good loot", since a system that just distributes good loot to "everyone" isn't possible. And all this in turn will lead to less interest, especially for more experienced players (who are in this just for the new goodies, since they already have all the other stuff).

I think giving in to the gripe and making everything easier and possible for everyone is exactly the wrong way to go. Instead it should be pushed into the other direction, keeping the tough missions and adding even tougher ones.

Commenting on the three mission types on the list:

• my only gripe with the Ayatan mission was that it punished players that put stars inte their sculptures immediately (like me 🙂). I had around fifty already filled ayatan sculptures "in storage", so I had go out and get more (which is quite easy, since arbitrations run 24/7). However, my lazy friend had around 30 unfilled sculptures, so he just filled five of them. Overall I think it was a perfectly valid (and interesting) new mission type.
• The survival challenges have been the best missions in the series so far, and finally something with a real bite to it. Super-great! I also think it is the player's own fault if they don't see the possibility of combining several challenges in one (which has become a sort of new and fun meta-challenge once a week).
• this is the only one where I side with the complainers. I think it would be ok if players that are friends or clan members would get an additional in-mission buff (more damage, more shields, more something per friend/clan member in the squad), but forcing players to "make friends" or join a clan in order to be able to even take part in a mission is... well, it is actually quite "bad". 

I have to admit I didn't like this change at first, but now I think it could become something quite brilliant. I have a few suggestions...

1. First of all, please kill the idea that everyone should be able to do all missions, and after killing it bury it somewhere where no-one will ever find it.
2. The premise that not everyone can do everything should also be applied to more experienced players, by adding missioin where you have to select doing either the "easier" or the "harder" version (with some appropriate spread in standing to reflect the different difficulty level).
3. One of the really nice things with the new system is that the mix of players in the missions has increased (even though this at the same time has been an irritant in the tougher missions). Mixing different experience and equipment levels is a very good thing, but I think it should be handled differently, by adding a mission type that is based on experience slots, for instance 1 slot for MR20+, 1 for MR15-MR20, 1 for MR10-MR15 and 1 for MR5-MR10. The mission would not start until every slot was filled by a player of appropriate level, and in order to facilitate cooperation it would not conclude successfully unless all four players extracted together. This forces higher MR players to actually help and support others, and at the same time allows lower MR players to play with "fully equipped" Lords of the Game, as well as to see in practice what fully forma'ed and modded weapons and warframes, arcanes, focus schools etc. can do.
4. From the arbitration system I would adapt the idea of using specific warframes for specific missions, but expand on it to have a mission type where using certain warframes is mandatory. That is, unless you select one of the four(?) warframes defined for the mission, you can't join (like the weapon gate system in sorties). Both Primed and non-primed versions of the applicable warframe should of course be allowed.
5. Instead of a mission type forcing the players to use a specific weapon (as in no. 4 above) I would like to see a mission type where Lotus provides the weaponry (pre-selected and pre-modded). Basically players can join the mission using any warframe, but have to use the pre-selected weaponry in-mission. This would have the double benefit of allowing players to test weapons and forcing players out of their "I always use this/that"-zone.
6. The daily challenges forcing us to kill using specific damage types are great and instructive (even if easy for more experienced players). I would like to see more and much "crazier" instructive missions. One that immediately comes to mind is a "kavat/kubrow patrol" mission, where the warframes' weapons and active abilities (1-4) are locked and you are dependent on your pets. And an equivalent mission for sentinels. And an "operators-only" mission.
7. I understand that the current set of standing rewards and the wolf credit market has evolved from the old alert system, but I think it would work better if the store was for fashion & weapons and all the resources were including in the standing rewards. In addition I think the standing reward progression would be a lot more interesting (and functional) if every third standing reward would consist of three options of which you can select only one (like the daily login reward). This would allow for resources like catalysts, orokin reactors, forma etc. to be present at several reward tiers, while at the same time allowing players that need them to select them and players that don't to select one of the other two options.

Please dont refer to nightwave challenges as missions...challenges are things you can do within missions and people keep seeeming to miss the distinction .  Btw.. some items in cetus and fortuna were made more available...seems like de responding to feedback

[(PSN)Double991]

The 1 hour missions were fine. Some people just want every reward but don't even want to play the game. There's more than enough nightwave standing to go around.

[MagPrime]

7 hours ago, Aldain said:

I could easily get behind this idea 100%.

I'd do 240 minutes of survival TOTAL before I'd do 60 consecutive minutes in one mission against the same enemies while also wondering if host migration would rear its ugly head.

The hardest part comes down to not getting bored for most players, not because of short attention spans but because for most people running a single mission for longer than about 15 minutes starts to crack Warframe's gameplay loop by stretching it too thin.

 

That and the lack of compelling rewards.  If they actually ramped up the longer you were in the mission, I'm willing to be more people would stay longer but, I've spent over an hour in a Survival only to get a Bronze of Silver mod.  That's not a reward worth that much time and effort.  (Doesn't stop me from doing it though lol but that's for different reasons)

[German]

There should be hourly activities (or as frequent as alerts).

[random__noob]

40 minutes ago, German said:

There should be hourly activities (or as frequent as alerts).

You mean, like the hourly Arbitrations?

Or more sporadic like Rifts and Invasions? Or more of a slow frequency like Sorties, Weekly Relic hunts and Clem mission?

If you want, you can create a topic about the reward pool of the arbitrations...

[(PSN)NemitheNem]

Thus far I like Nightwave, mostly (the five sortie thing was horrible).  I have friends that would like it more if they could turn off Nora.

But...I wish just as Dailies can roll over I wish some weeklies would too

[zoffmode]

2 hours ago, Graavarg said:

I want them back. It was the best challenge so far in the new Nightwave-cycle, even if there were problems with a lot of players joining a mission they hadn't experience and equipment for.

I think it is inherently stupid that players that DON'T like something and don't want to do something should be able to get it removed from the game. This "adapting everything towards the middle"-syndrome kills variation and makes everything "the same", not just in Warframe but in other games, and you can see the same destructive views IRL everywhere. If you don't like the missions, just don't do them. Doing them (voluntarily) and then complaining about it is sort of... well, I'm not going to say it.

Or maybe we should have a system where we vote on everything in Warframe and then simply remove all the content that doesn't get majority approval. What a brilliant idea... not!

Hey man. I really like K-drive. There should be a Nightwave act where you have to do k-drive tricks for 1 hour straight. You only need 60% acts to get everything after all, right?

[Graavarg]

3 hours ago, Thrymm said:

1) It wasn't three or four loud voices that "got it removed".

...

2) Rather, the participation or completion numbers, combined with a variety of other metrics(incompletes that could be from host migration, etc) had to have shown something amiss in such an activity to merit removing or reducing it---a few forum gripes simply doesn't accomplish these things all alone.

...

3) Besides, it's not removed.

...

4) The way it is right now---with stuff like this not used for weekly challenges--actually offers this content for both parties in an even handed way.

1 & 2: Pure speculation.

3: Exactly, it is in some sort of "paused" mode, and I want it back.

4: This is BS, I explicitly liked this mission as part of the Nightwave series, since it is the ONLY mission type that has any challenge at all. Yes, I know many players just want it "quick and easy", but I happen to like a challenge. According to your logic most other Nightwave missions could then also be removed, since they are very much like other content in the game.

Griping about a mission that is completely voluntary is... sort of strange. Kindly put. If others like it, why remove it? Just don't do it, there are plenty of other missions and approx. 60% redundancy in order to achieve full standing, so there is no actual need.

[Graavarg]

3 hours ago, (PS4)ImTooHungover said:

You end up gating a lot of Nightwave standing (half a level) by creating a content that a majority of people loathed and it was clearly stated on here on these forums. 

The way to make a Survival mission Elite status is by having it a 20 or 30 minute mission that has debuffs on Tenno or major buffs on enemies.  Could even do things like "life support drops at double the rate" or "tenno that are downed lose overall life support."

Not true. The need to do all the missions is just in your head, approx. 60% of the missions are needed to achieve full standing. It is ok to want easy missions, I like a little bit more challenge. Even though I don't quite understand why you want the missions easier, if you are so über-good that you fall asleep fighting lvl 150-160 Grineer… Maybe you would get more out of it if you equipped a more challenging warframe and non-META equipment (it might actually be fun, you know 😉).

[Ohforf3]

If you want to encourage people to do longer survival, the answer isn't nightwave.  There are 2 reasons to fight stronger enemies and 1 of them is already satisfied by the normal survival missions.

1. The Challenge.  As stated this is already covered by the current system but even then many who want a challenge don't want to have to sit through 30 min of low level stuff to get it.  Higher level mission nodes with the current rate of scaling are needed for those who want to have fun now instead of falling asleep waiting for something interesting to happen.
2. Rewards besides bragging rights(2 hour survival gives same reward as 6X20 min survival).  DE had the right idea to fix this but then they only made it part of the arbitration.  AABC repeating in that loop makes doing another 4 waves less efficient than extracting and doing another round.  They need to make ALL endless AAB then C to infinity for 4th reward and on.

[(PSN)FriendSharkey]

No thank you..Did my time in the one-two hour mark zone on defense missions for some helmet or system blue print enough for one lifetime, I have no wish to drop that on anyone's head...also...It's bad enough I have to forgo 5000 standing for another 5000 due to it being a hour long defense or interception because I can't stand the thought of having friends...yuck....

Edited March 30, 2019 by (PS4)FriendSharkey

[(XBOX)Tornicade]

This is a discussion forum for an ongoing topic of nightwave and how it can be improved ...removing nightwave is not really constructive feedback imo and doesnt fall within the de how to post constructive feedback post that is stickied..

Nightwave is a comprehensive reward system that includes a shop that includes old alert rewards.

We have

@ syndicate missions

@cephalon scan missions

@sorties

@invasions

@nightmare missions

@relic fissure missions

@kuuva siphon missions

@vault/derelict missions

@Cetus 

@fortuna

Then you have the  base mission types and orbiter related functions

All this stuff has their own set of challenges. 

Nightwave itself has 30 tiers of rewards plus its own shop with stuff and a cap on how many tiers you can get in a week.

So far. I do not like resource and faction dependant /group challenges as weeklies... Gilding an amp should be a season achievement.

The fugitives should net more standing or better yet...the fugitives should net nightwave credits in addition to the tier credit reward....5 to 15 wolf credits would certainly allow a bit more randomness to the nightain crowd.....or give the fugitives a chance to drop something

I also think the rare gem and fish achievements should of been just generic fish and gems at higher numbers. 

 

[LoneWolf9989]

On 2019-03-18 at 10:51 AM, Lodeion said:

EDIT: "I think it's possible to satisfy both people who like and people who dislike 1-hour challenges, and that's what I want."

When Nightwave came out, I was very satisfied with its elite weekly 1-hour acts and I want more of them - it's a second week without them and I'm getting worried I'm not going to get them again.

I know these acts have been getting a lot of negative feedback from the community, but there are people who love these challenges, and I think it's fair for those people to have them. Especially because 1-hour acts don't seem to harm players who don't like them.

Positives of 1-hour acts (Why I and others like them):

1. They encourage players to upgrade equipment and learn mechanics of the game: Without these acts, there are no good reasons to push weapons and frames to their limits.
2. Survival missions are very fun above 20 minutes and it's probably the best content Warframe has at the moment. The new bosses can be more frustrating than fun.
3. Without Nightwave rewards, long survival missions are not rewarding enough to do them instead of more rewarding content - no matter how fun they are.
4. If other activities are included into Nightwave, and survival doesn't, in a way it becomes even less rewarding than other content.

Negatives of 1-hour acts (Why people dislike them):

1. It may be difficult/impossible to complete without a team.
2. It is impossible to complete for people who can't play for 1 hour at a time.
3. It's not for a new players.
4. They might be too easy for hardcore players.

It's possible to unlock all of the rewards while skipping 1 or 2 weekly challenges, so people affected by negatives can safely skip the undesired acts. If that is not the case, it should be - that's way better option than removing niche acts from Nightwave.

Other suggestions:

1. If skipping is a problem, there could more challenges available with a cap on how many challenges can be completed each week.
2. Challenges could be made shorter in length if the difficulty of 1-hour survival was accessible earlier.
3. I also wouldn't mind if elite acts were made more difficult to make hardcore players interested.

So, yeah, I 100% support 1-hour acts. I think they are/were a great addition to the game - like the rest of Nightwave.

Jeez, give DE some room to work. You can't expect them to organize that EVERY week because there are far more people who would complain if that happened

[(NSW)ForTheGhostsWithin]

If you like 1 hour mission so much, just do it yourself. Or recruit someone who has same fetish.
Please don't make these niche things being forced to anyone. If you really like doing extreme stuff, you don't need rewards for doing it.

[000l000]

Le 04/03/2019 à 22:47, [DE]Bear a dit :

In the end, we wanted to make a series of challenges that spoke to every type of player, but we do not want to do so at the cost of enjoyment overall.
 

Endless challenges are challenges that spoke to every type of player since they're already doing this kind of missions all day long. There's no cost of enjoyment except for a few reasons:

First many people will whine about anything cause that's what they do, in any game, in real life, anytime anywhere. Tbh don't even try to please the ones who can't be pleased - You're wasting your time here.

Second the major flaw of this kind of mission isn't necessarily the difficulty but the time we need to achieve it. 40min is really long, most players aren't even staying more 10min in such missions. That doesn't mean they can't stay longer but let be honest a sec, 40min is really really long. And i don't even talk about people who have other things to do (casual or not), family, job, friends, children in real life. Not every player is a nolife who's farming kuva all day long.

Third, if a few people are complaining here, that doesn't mean everyone agrees with them. This is only a forum and people are always more eager to complain than any other thing. Be cautious with the vocal minority or you'll lose any objectivity. Tons of people play this game on a regular basis, not so many come here. You can't base any assumption upon a few aficionados - it's working this way in every single game now.

Fourth, i don't know how you're calculating the whole nightwave reward system, but i'm pretty sure there's some anxiety around it. If people knew they could avoid some specific challenges and still be able to grab every rewards, you'd be saving a lot of trouble.

Fifth, you can't please everyone. That's your job to design stuff and make choices, not player's. Try to pick the good one and stick to it - most peoplle will adapt anyway and tbh most people don't like much changes so this is a long story. Unless you're making mistakes of course. 😓

Edited March 31, 2019 by 000l000

[(XBOX)Tatakai no Kami]

13 hours ago, NezuHimeSama said:

But that was never the issue, was it? And then here you are, setting up stupid bait questions to try and trap out an answer that suits you, despite having answered this several times already.

What isn't a chore is whatever I want to do at that time. What is a chore is all the things I don't want to do, but am obligated to by design. In other words, the vast majority of Warframe's content, on it's own, is not a chore. What is a chore is forcing players to play this or that specific thing lest they miss out on some time limited reward. And since everything about nightwave is both time-gated and expires, nightwave is a series of chores by design. This is a bad thing, and was a bad thing when every other game did it.

Again, even though I've already explained it before. Not that you'll remember it in a page or two, because it would be inconvenient to recognize that there are legitimate concerns with how horrible nightwave is by design, and that it's not just a bunch of kids jumping on the complain train to feel included.

Yes, but as usual your answers were vague and when I pointed out that everything in the game told you how to play the game when your last response was that you don't like being told how to play the game. You never clarified your answer.

I  was going to break down everything in the game and whether it was time-gated or not, but the forums crashed for me this morning.

So I'm just going to put it like this. 90% of the game content is time-gated and therefore in your opinion a chore. Alerts were super time-gated so must have been massive chores. My takeaway from this is no matter what changes they make to Nigth Wave, it will always be a chore for you and you will never be happy. Because you don't like being told what to do.

So that means based on the majority of your replies here, you are not here for Nigthave improvements, you're just here to attack the people who are clarifying things people misunderstand about nightwave. The people who are trying to allay unfounded fears about.
 

Mostly you are here to derail the thread, because you yourself find everything to be a chore except on the few days you wake up and decide you want to do that thing so it is no longer a chore.
 

if you want to learn what real Chores are in a game go play Fortnite Save the World.

[taiiat]

is this the right Thread for this?

• for the Sabotage Cache Nightwave task, Hive Sabotage and Grineer Sealab Sabotage don't count towards the progress.
  these are Sabotage Missions, and have Caches, so they should count.

[Saerrin]

I hate this Nightwave bs and am not bothering to read any of the 60+ pages on this thread as I'm already on the fence about uninstalling this game as is, so here's my possibly not so unique ideas on how to improve it if the old alert system isn't coming back (either alongside Nightwave or without Nightwave):

-Don't lock Wolf credits behind tiers. Perhaps make the challenges give a small number of credits and make fugitives give credits on capture. WoSS should also drop credits as well. Decrease the value of an individual credit for more accurate pricing if you have to, just please don't make Nightwave feel so intrusive. This means people that play less frequently can choose to grind their time on Nightwave OR other things and still get some progression to Nightwave, while those that play more frequently get rewarded for it as well. More options is a good thing in video games!

-Remove the idea of daily/weekly challenges completely. Scrap them for a number of challenges you can do based on in-game progression that are replaced with new random challenges after completion. Add in a free number of daily rerolls, and make it so rerolls can be earned in some way or another while playing the game more or less normally. Elite challenges can still be a thing but for actual higher level players as a bonus and not a necessity for Nightwave progression. Also if you don't want people that no-life the game to get everything too easily, add a limit to how many challenges you can do in a day or week or whatever. It achieves the same effect but with less frustration. This idea can be balanced in so many different ways.

-Make Nightwave permanent. Nightwave seasons with tiered rewards can come and go, but don't toss the credits and rewards out, that's really frustrating. Maybe add smaller random rewards while Nightwave seasons are out for those that like to do Nightwave stuff a lot. Also give a large disclaimer saying "The Umbra Forma is exclusive to Nightwave, and one will be available in (the next/a future season). If you can't get it now, don't worry!" or something. Assuming that's what's going to happen, I don't know, just a guess. Haven't paid much attention to it, too many other things to learn.

-Make the shop rotate more frequently. It can hold less items, just have it rotate out daily or bi-daily. Or have it display every item from the beginning, nobody would complain about that. It isn't by any means necessary, however.

 

I'm sure I and many others cane come up with more ideas, just please improve this system. It is sucking out all the fun I want to have from returning to the game after so many years and seeing all this new content.

And DE, if you use my ideas and nobody else has already suggested the same, please give me credit by mentioning me. Would also love a free name change. 🙂

Edited March 31, 2019 by Saerrin
wording

[sam686]

Bug, restriction, and idea:

1. Communicator (daily) bug: I can't mark Kubrow eggs, only shows as "Waypoint" that fails to count for this Nightwave challenge. This is on PC platform. Doesn't matter if I am host, client, or solo. Still can't mark them. https://forums.warframe.com/topic/1076314-cant-mark-kubrow-egg-other-players-walks-on-top-of-it-did-not-get-it/

2. Cache hunter (weekly): Find all three caches in sabotage missions.. The only minor problem is, Mars Ares (Mars), Ker (ceres), Thebe (Jupiter), Okoabiel (Europa), and Sao (Neptune), have no caches. It might help to show which missions have caches, like Cervantes (Earth) have caches. What's next? cache hunter on exterminate mission? I only know of one exterminate mission that have caches: Plato (Lua).

3. Just an idea: While in orbiter or relay, it may help to let us click Nightwave challenge that requires a specific location like Earth Fisher (Plains of Eidolon) and Test Subject (Sanctuary Onslaught), to ask "Start this mission?", or show list of possible missions like Sound Sleeper show all available Nightmare missions and Cache Hunter should show Sabotage missions that have Caches.

[(XBOX)Tornicade]

3 hours ago, Saerrin said:

I hate this Nightwave bs and am not bothering to read any of the 60+ pages on this thread as I'm already on the fence about uninstalling this game as is, so here's my possibly not so unique ideas on how to improve it if the old alert system isn't coming back (either alongside Nightwave or without Nightwave):

-Don't lock Wolf credits behind tiers. Perhaps make the challenges give a small number of credits and make fugitives give credits on capture. WoSS should also drop credits as well. Decrease the value of an individual credit for more accurate pricing if you have to, just please don't make Nightwave feel so intrusive. This means people that play less frequently can choose to grind their time on Nightwave OR other things and still get some progression to Nightwave, while those that play more frequently get rewarded for it as well. More options is a good thing in video games!

-Remove the idea of daily/weekly challenges completely. Scrap them for a number of missions you can do based on in-game progression that are replaced with new random missions after completion. Add in a free number of daily rerolls, and make it so rerolls can be earned in some way or another while playing the game more or less normally. Elite missions can still be a thing but for actual higher level players as a bonus and not a necessity for Nightwave progression. Also if you don't want people that no-life the game to get everything too easily, add a limit to how many missions you can do in a day or week or whatever. It achieves the same effect but with less frustration. This idea can be balanced in so many different ways.

-Make Nightwave permanent. Nightwave seasons with tiered rewards can come and go, but don't toss the credits and rewards out, that's really frustrating. Maybe add smaller random rewards while Nightwave seasons are out for those that like to do Nightwave stuff a lot. Also give a large disclaimer saying "The Umbra Forma is exclusive to Nightwave, and one will be available in (the next/a future season). If you can't get it now, don't worry!" or something. Assuming that's what's going to happen, I don't know, just a guess. Haven't paid much attention to it, too many other things to learn.

-Make the shop rotate more frequently. It can hold less items, just have it rotate out daily or bi-daily. Or have it display every item from the beginning, nobody would complain about that. It isn't by any means necessary, however.

 

I'm sure I and many others cane come up with more ideas, just please improve this system. It is sucking out all the fun I want to have from returning to the game after so many years and seeing all this new content.

And DE, if you use my ideas and nobody else has already suggested the same, please give me credit by mentioning me. Would also love a free name change. 🙂

You want to replace challenges with missions.  last thing i want is more missions... As of now. I can do majority of nightwave while doing what i want to do......

 

 

[German]

vor 15 Stunden schrieb random__noob:

You mean, like the hourly Arbitrations?

Or more sporadic like Rifts and Invasions? Or more of a slow frequency like Sorties, Weekly Relic hunts and Clem mission?

If you want, you can create a topic about the reward pool of the arbitrations...

Like alerts but still different. Nightwave removed alerts and gave us a different system, I think they should have kept and reworked the hourly alerts and have them next to Nightwave.

[(PSN)guzmantt1977]

20 hours ago, (PS4)AyinDygra said:

I would say a person's opinion is always correct for them.

There is no "you're wrong to not like that" reply that is correct here. (including perceptions of things that may not exist as things)

Opinions are fine, but they're usually based on our reaction to certain facts. An opinion that is based on facts that we know are wrong, and have known for a long time can be changed by pointing out that those facts are false and giving the correct ones. 

An example is "nightwave is bad because we are being forced to participate". That is not an opinion it's a statement of objective fact, and is simply not true. Most of the people voicing this here seem to be multi-year veterans who already have most or even all of the alert rewards. They want the umbral forma and the cosmetics, but claim to dislike the challenges which are drawn from all parts of the game. 

When asked what they do like about the game as a reference point, they refuse to give straight answers, and the answers that we get indicate that they would have had the exact same opposition to the alerts system. (This happens to be entirely believable as many people skipped the alerts that they already had the rewards for, so there's a good chance that they would not have participated anyway.) 

Another false fact that we've seen is "70% participation/completion required" which we were told from the very beginning that it's intended to be between 60 to 65%. The complainant that we're not told this in-game is valid, but anyone on the forums has no excuse as the 70% has been corrected way too many times. 

Now it appears that the majority of the false facts are being used by the same individuals, over and over again. By and large these are also the ones claiming that anyone correcting those false facts, or holding a different opinion, are "toxic and trying to derail the thread". 

 

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What I've seen done here, in "correcting" people, is adjusting their goals from what is presented in the game as what they should aspire to (mid-point of rank 30 was "expected", with everything beyond that being "prestige" ranks that they are not expected to get without putting in more than the usual effort),

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(If people want to run with the whole "elite" tag on "elite challenges" and hold DE to their own inflated exaggerated opinion of what that should mean about the relative challenge they should hold, I'm going to hold them to "prestige" too.) It's silly to have to do that, but it is what it is.

to what is currently achievable by those people, so they no longer have expectations not being met. I wouldn't call that a good thing. The expectations of the Nightwave system was to replace Alerts and "make it better" for people with little time to play the game. In my experience, this has not happened, and in fact, Nightwave has made it worse for people with little time to play.

You mean like when we say that it's unreasonable to expect all day-1 newbs to be able to participate in or complete the "Elite" challenges? 

Or if we point out that because many of the challenges synergise many people can complete all of the challenges in a few hours a week, and can gain 4 ranks a week which guarantees that players with limited time to play can get a lot more stuff from the store Nitain in a given week than under the previous system without the time based RNG? 

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As I've said before, Nightwave is good in THEORY, but badly implemented, to fulfill the stated goals of the content. (replacing Alerts)

If Alerts continued as before, alongside Nightwave, I'd say 50% or more of the feedback against Nightwave, seen here, would not exist.

The other 50% that would remain, is in the intrinsic design of Nightwave being time-limited event-exlusive rewards with expiring currency (the rewards of which may come back in easier or more difficult to obtain ways at some vague future time, negating the argument to just wait for it to come around again - especially if that "way" to get them means getting prestige ranks in future Nightwaves, when it's hard enough now, for some just to reach the mid-point of 30 ranks.)

Based on the fact that the old alert system generated a lot complaint especially wrt Nitain and having to wait weeks under regular play to get enough, and the fact that many of the complaints are allegedly about not being able to get the rewards they want, from the mission type they want, at the time they want I'd have to say that we wouldn't be getting fewer complaints, just different ones. 

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No arguments will change my mind on the failure of design present in what I see here. It's also not a plaintive cry from someone who won't get those rewards (I'm rank 18 already - slowly farming up a buffer in case there are a ton of stupid challenges I don't want to do or my schedule prevents me from playing later in the season), but I know many others are not so far along - and it is these people, and future me (in future seasons, with different future circumstances) that I am voicing these concerns for, to make this event better for MORE people, not just for who it's already good for, right now.

Well it's sad that you have decided in advance to have a closed mind about this. Since the alert rewards are specific to the creds store, I'm going to ask you if you are going to stop after rank 24?

If so you probably have quite a large buffer right now. If you are aiming for rank 30 then you probably are doing just fine, but I would suspect that you are after something other than the alert rewards, and if you are trying to prestige for bonus creds, you are probably behind where you should be by this stage, there's at least one dude who will be able to collect his first prestige ranks before tomorrow. 

I'd love to hear which of those applies to you. 

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As it is, Nightwave is set up to be an EVENT, rather than a core game system. Limited time, limited rewards, progress disappearing at the end. And most events are just fine in Warframe, where people focus on the goals of that event for a short time, like 2 weeks... and then relax and go back to playing how they want to, with their own goals on their own timetables. Nightwave isn't just 2 weeks... it's 10 weeks, and if you don't put in enough effort every week, you stand to lose out on some of the rewards (or all of the rewards that matter to you) if you fail to put in the required time-frame dependent work.

You are right, Nightwave is also an event. But the bit about if we miss a week we will lose out on our rewards is weird. We only need 60-65% of the total standing. So if we can, and choose to do all of the challenges, we'll be done in 6-7 weeks. We should be able to miss up to 3 whole weeks and be fine. 

And it being time dependent can't be the problem, because most alerts were time dependent. Even the Gifts of the Lotus we'd get every couple of weeks were locked to 24 hours. That very generous 24 hours is 3 times less than what we get under Nightwave, isn't it? 

 

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Several things have been brought up that could fix these issues, and yes, they're ISSUES. And just telling people to "live with it" or "git good" or "skip it"... are all invalid for the discussion at hand.

 

Well isn't it great that by opening up and letting everyone know what you think and why, we've had an open avenue for civil discussion and you haven't gotten any of those? (But I'm afraid that I still think that "skip whatever you don't feel like doing" will always be a valid response to anyone claiming that they are being "forced" to do stuff in a video game.) 

 

Have a fantabulous day Tenno. Hope that I'll see you in your Wolf armour holding a bushel of Nitain, when we get to that finish line. 😊