Dog Days Exploit Hot Fix Red Text, Don't talk down at your supporters DE

[Klokwerkaos]

8 minutes ago, (PS4)Bigboodyjuudy said:

 

If it aint about you why are you b-hurt? 

The only ones that logically should be mad at this are people that exploited the event. 😏

I think you did not comprehend my argument at all.  I praised them fixing the exploit.  You, like many others have not understood anything about the origin of the salt, just as an FYI.  If you're curious, perhaps go back and read again if you want to contribute to the issue. 

I have a legitimate gripe, and it's not about patching the exploit.

[BrenBlaze]

It seems like some people are missing each other with this discussion. 

A point a lot of people are trying to make is that the design of this event encourages everything from glitches to afking disproportionately compared to any other content in Warframe. 

My take is that I can't blame AFK'ers or glitchers for skirting the content.i haven't done so because the rewards don't interest me to even risk glitching or afking.  It has no platinum market value, mission can't be sped up, nor can you earn extra. So it's not hurting the other players, and would be greatly fixed by just making us feel like we are earning something, working, improving, not just the same 5 min waiting game. 

Design of the game mode itself is neat though. 

 

[(PSN)guzmantt1977]

27 minutes ago, BrenBlaze said:

Can't remember how to quote partial on mobile, but I agree this is a much better take on my thoughts. 

Highlight, quote selection. 

 

28 minutes ago, BrenBlaze said:

didn't suggest something so robust because DE seems hell bent against making tough content that directly rewards performance

Not so much robust as less broken. Including the fact that the two post mission kill counts don't always match up. 

[(PSN)Bigboodyjuudy]

20 minutes ago, Klokwerkaos said:

I think you did not comprehend my argument at all.  I praised them fixing the exploit.  You, like many others have not understood anything about the origin of the salt, just as an FYI.  If you're curious, perhaps go back and read again if you want to contribute to the issue. 

I have a legitimate gripe, and it's not about patching the exploit.

 

Except that it is. Why else would you talk about the red text? The only people DE were making fun of were the exploiters. 

[(PSN)Bigboodyjuudy]

7 minutes ago, BrenBlaze said:

It seems like some people are missing each other with this discussion. 

A point a lot of people are trying to make is that the design of this event encourages everything from glitches to afking disproportionately compared to any other content in Warframe. 

My take is that I can't blame AFK'ers or glitchers for skirting the content.i haven't done so because the rewards don't interest me to even risk glitching or afking.  It has no platinum market value, mission can't be sped up, nor can you earn extra. So it's not hurting the other players, and would be greatly fixed by just making us feel like we are earning something, working, improving, not just the same 5 min waiting game. 

Design of the game mode itself is neat though. 

 

 

Actually the capture scene can be traded for, so that will eventually have some value to it. 

[(PSN)AotoSatou14]

This thread has lived longer than it should have.

Edited August 7, 2019 by (PS4)AotoSatou14

[(XBOX)ECCHO SIERRA]

10 hours ago, (XB1)GaussPrime said:

Oh my God I can't believe I found a comment having common sense.. thank you for existing. 

 

I also think what redtext said was nothing but the truth, there were LITERALLY people using the exact same method COMING here to complain how boring the game is.. it's just stupid.

Thank you. I feel like the forums have been somewhat more uh... "excitable" lately.

 

Ps hit me up on xbox if you want fam

[BrenBlaze]

1 minute ago, (XB1)ECCHO SIERRA said:

Thank you. I feel like the forums have been somewhat more uh... "excitable" lately.

I'd agree with this notion. 

I really don't get why people are getting so worked up here. It's a trivial mode with mostly trivial rewards. And then why people get equally worked up that people are voicing their opinions. 

[Tinklzs]

20 hours ago, BiancaRoughfin said:

They do but every time they make something harder or more challenging in the game, some people come to the forums harassing them for making something too hard.

Take Arbitrations and Nightwave for example.

For those players I'd say they need to learn to be better (did that sound better than the typical git gud?).

Warframe has the ability to have proper balance, rivens not be a broken mess and also have different forms of potential 'endgame'. If boss-fighting is your thing (or fighting big things) Eidolons is the way to go. But requesting something like eidolons (or in your example arbitrations/nightwave) to be nerfed because.. it's "too hard".. yeah, means you aren't ready for that content yet, be it lack of experience or mods.   

 

The rest of us who like something shouldn't suffer and have that game mode nerfed because someone else doesn't want to rise up to the challenge and overcome it.

As for what DeMonkey said (how game needs balanced for us to have endgame etc) I completely agree with, as I've been an advocate for a complete rebalance for awhile now. We can still be powerful and have power fantasies, then have certain game modes/sortie/arbitration etc. Require teamwork and coordination and challenge players, without needing to go to stupid enemy levels to do so, and without the enemy one shotting us somewhere in-between.  It just requires DE to actually do something and the players to hold their ground.

[DeMonkey]

4 hours ago, (PS4)tissot555 said:

You cant see past your own opinion to admit the fact that content can be inspired. No wonder you were a wukong fan while he was the most boring frame in the game.

Ad hominem does absolutely nothing to further your point.

None of your "inspired" points do anything to solve the core gameplay issues that I have presented. Your solution to working around these core gameplay issues that Warframe has is to completely avoid the core gameplay altogether.

Warframes are broken? Lets make endgame content that involves not using your Warframe at all, despite it being the name of the game and the reason most people play. For someone who said my argument that we can't have endgame was rubbish, the examples you've provided are vague and poorly thought out.

1 hour ago, Klokwerkaos said:

Any other problematic ability, I'm sure I can address too.

The huge discrepancy between squishy frame EHP and tank frank EHP? You have 3 options.

Enemies deal damage such that tankier frames do feel some pushback, and as such are dealing thousands of damage a shot.

Enemies deal damage such that squishier frames actually have a chance to survive, and as such the enemies are dealing hundreds of damage a shot, which for some of these squishier frames is still quite painful, especially if they have means with which to ignore invisibility.

Enemies deal some degree of percentage damage, meaning they're equally effective against tankier frames and squishier frames, which then creates the problem of why even bother building tanky? Could of course have only some enemies deal percentage damage, which then means you're still relying on one of the above options as well.

1 hour ago, Klokwerkaos said:

Got an infinitely invisible player? give a unit heat vision goggles, does this mean the invisibility is useless, no, it means that you need to avoid running into LoS for that unit

Will this heat vision unit also ignore aggro? Because otherwise this still doesn't counter Octavia, likewise the Aggro ignoring "leader" type is also not a complete counter, because she's still invisible.

You'd need both enemies at the same time in order for Octavia to feel any push back, which unless these units are very common, seems like a once in a blue moon type deal (e.g. I rarely run into a Nullifier and an Ancient Healer at the same time). You're also reliant upon the anti-aggro Leader type appearing right as you cast mallet, and stopping nearby units from giving it any damage to work with, otherwise there's a chance that they and any heat vision units will just die before they can actually do anything.

1 hour ago, Klokwerkaos said:

Got another issue, I'm sure I can figure out how to counter it.  If I can figure it out in seconds, why can't DE?

You're bordering on the territory that's caused arguments before.

[BrenBlaze]

5 minutes ago, DeMonkey said:

Will this heat vision unit also ignore aggro? Because otherwise this still doesn't counter Octavia, likewise the Aggro ignoring "leader" type is also not a complete counter, because she's still invisible.

Confused, maybe I missed something in the back in forth but where does aggro play in? 

I thought the idea was the goggles allow a single unit type to simply ignore invisibility. That should work for all Warframes? The Warframe ability is nullified in a sense but the mechanic of stealth is still alive through the games basic stealth system. 

If my understanding of that is right that's a fix for one end game mechanic, but I understand your point. That's a fix that wouldn't really be felt as much as handling some AoE nukes or armor abilities ect. 

[DeMonkey]

2 minutes ago, BrenBlaze said:

Confused, maybe I missed something in the back in forth but where does aggro play in?

Here.

1 hour ago, Klokwerkaos said:

What if you just make a leader enemy type that allows them to cast pbaoe focus fire buff and they are immune to aggro abilities (such as saryn 2) but will focus on the player that presents the most threat to their squad?

 

[(PSN)tissot555]

40 minutes ago, DeMonkey said:

Ad hominem does absolutely nothing to further your point.

None of your "inspired" points do anything to solve the core gameplay issues that I have presented. Your solution to working around these core gameplay issues that Warframe has is to completely avoid the core gameplay all together.

Warframe has been out for six years and is wildly popular, yet you want to rework the whole game. I just want to make better content for it and I could. 

[(XBOX)Demon Intellect]

21 hours ago, BiancaRoughfin said:

They do but every time they make something harder or more challenging in the game, some people come to the forums harassing them for making something too hard.

Take Arbitrations and Nightwave for example.

Nightwave isnt hard, it's just extremely boring. Arbitrations arent hard, again, just really boring.

[(NSW)Lunavay]

Geez, it's just discouraging people from exploiting the game. Why do people get so hurt even if their action is questionable in the first place? 

[(PSN)death404]

I get a kick out of people who mention "white knights" in their OP. Basically stating outright that anyone who disagrees with their rant is blinded by Love of DE. 

It makes it easy to see who is actually up for debate or who just wants to *@##$, which makes it easy to decide which posts to engage with.

[Tinklzs]

1 hour ago, (NSW)Lunavay said:

Geez, it's just discouraging people from exploiting the game. Why do people get so hurt even if their action is questionable in the first place? 

You're looking at the symptom (idling/afk) and not the actual problem (the event is boring, so boring infact players would rather idle it). 

Solution to problem? Make it more entertaining, and make it so idling can't happen. So, problem gets fixed and quality of content goes up (win win).

[Firetrucksrule]

18 hours ago, VanFanel1980mx said:

if "end game" content is meant for the challenge then the rewards need to be more symbolic (like, literally elite cosmetics or something) and less practical like resources and weapon components

That's exactly where elite mods and maybe even extra systems like arcanes should exist. If endgame is over as soon as you have a few skins then it isn't an end game, it's just another regular game function. The point of running end game content should be to make you better equipped to push further into end game content. Getting cosmetics should be the added reward, making them the whole reward just makes a system unsustainable. If you're done with a new game system within a week then it probably isn't end game. That's what happens when the only reward is a functionally useless cosmetic. 

[Tinklzs]

28 minutes ago, Firetrucksrule said:

That's exactly where elite mods and maybe even extra systems like arcanes should exist. If endgame is over as soon as you have a few skins then it isn't an end game, it's just another regular game function. The point of running end game content should be to make you better equipped to push further into end game content. Getting cosmetics should be the added reward, making them the whole reward just makes a system unsustainable. If you're done with a new game system within a week then it probably isn't end game. That's what happens when the only reward is a functionally useless cosmetic. 

Eidolons could be used as a stepping stone of preparation to get arcanes needed to do raids in the future.

[(XBOX)YoungGunn82]

Edited August 7, 2019 by (XB1)RDeschain82

[(XBOX)EternalDrk Mako]

personally the grind for "pearls" and bad PUB matches, afkin squads  has made this so unfun, the solo method was the only way i could play it stably and get the needed "pearls" at a decent rate, now this has become a chore to get stuff (again) , now grinding this event  is a hard NO now as its not fun and   its sad as the concept for it was nice , to bad the grind wall (yet again) kills this for me 

[Aldain]

5 hours ago, (PS4)Bigboodyjuudy said:

 

If it aint about you why are you b-hurt? 

The only ones that logically should be mad at this are people that exploited the event. 😏

Hey look a "You're mad so you must be -insert label here-" comment.

How quaint.

[Klokwerkaos]

4 hours ago, DeMonkey said:

Ad hominem does absolutely nothing to further your point.

None of your "inspired" points do anything to solve the core gameplay issues that I have presented. Your solution to working around these core gameplay issues that Warframe has is to completely avoid the core gameplay altogether.

Warframes are broken? Lets make endgame content that involves not using your Warframe at all, despite it being the name of the game and the reason most people play. For someone who said my argument that we can't have endgame was rubbish, the examples you've provided are vague and poorly thought out.

The huge discrepancy between squishy frame EHP and tank frank EHP? You have 3 options.

Enemies deal damage such that tankier frames do feel some pushback, and as such are dealing thousands of damage a shot.

Enemies deal damage such that squishier frames actually have a chance to survive, and as such the enemies are dealing hundreds of damage a shot, which for some of these squishier frames is still quite painful, especially if they have means with which to ignore invisibility.

Enemies deal some degree of percentage damage, meaning they're equally effective against tankier frames and squishier frames, which then creates the problem of why even bother building tanky? Could of course have only some enemies deal percentage damage, which then means you're still relying on one of the above options as well.

Will this heat vision unit also ignore aggro? Because otherwise this still doesn't counter Octavia, likewise the Aggro ignoring "leader" type is also not a complete counter, because she's still invisible.

You'd need both enemies at the same time in order for Octavia to feel any push back, which unless these units are very common, seems like a once in a blue moon type deal (e.g. I rarely run into a Nullifier and an Ancient Healer at the same time). You're also reliant upon the anti-aggro Leader type appearing right as you cast mallet, and stopping nearby units from giving it any damage to work with, otherwise there's a chance that they and any heat vision units will just die before they can actually do anything.

You're bordering on the territory that's caused arguments before.

sure, why not mix the equipment, load in one every two or three squads.  we didn't always have cold nullies, but we do now.  seems entirely doable.

then with health, why not make a vampire ability that targets effective health pool and maybe even leeches %... also doable.  additionally octavia wouldn't work half as well if she had no energy, make an energy vampire unit/sapper, not like the ones that drain through walls with persistant drain, but as an actual attack, maybe it converts it into a pbaoe shield for it's allies too so they aren"t so squishy...  that solves a good number of frames right there...

you can also do other things too, like give them alt fire that does a proc of some kind.  actually make them somewhat competent as ai, all that stuff...

and the thing is, we don't need to do that on every generic map, just the ones with the elite rewards for an endgame notion where there needs to be substantial challenge to justify the reward.

i mean the only real thing you have to do in order to do stuff here is to identify the problem, figure out why it's so broken and then add in the appropriate fix and the appropriate enemy level.

the answer isn't a single fix though, but by adding many fixes, like that plus smarter ai, engaging challenges for maps that go beyond surface level the encourage coop and coordination, things like that... all that stuff together will make a slight increase to challenge each, which ends up adding up over time.  it's the 1000 cuts principle.  you don't negate the player and take their stuff away, but you can chip away at it with this thing, and that, and that, until the effective advantage Isn"t so broken that it makes all sense of game balance impossible.

that said, the main issue i see Is less with frames and more with rivens, since appropriate riven combos can vastly outperform frames in most situations.  the answer there is pretty easy though, which is to create units that scale their armor better and faster and give resistances to certain things, maybe elite units that have a unique bonus with a bump to health/shields and maybe are a guaranteed rare resource for the map or something...

either way, the problems are solveable, so long as they are identified.

just like we have nullies with multiple abilities< we can make other units with multiple abilities and give them a percentage spawn rate.

in this way it doesn't make the frames useless, but that people need to be a little more careful, think a little, strategize a little, pay attention to what they are doing instead of running to extract at top speed.  that would go a long way to fixing a lot of the issues.  then of course, if content takes a bit more to complete< you adjust drop tables accordingly as well so effort put in still equals reward put out.






 

Edited August 7, 2019 by Klokwerkaos

[Fire2box]

5 hours ago, BrenBlaze said:

I'd agree with this notion. 

I really don't get why people are getting so worked up here. It's a trivial mode with mostly trivial rewards. And then why people get equally worked up that people are voicing their opinions. 

Because people HAVE to be right. people HAVE to agree with them. 

[o0Despair0o]

On 2019-08-06 at 10:41 PM, Klokwerkaos said:

the Devs still don't take seriously or want to understand the problem of people complaining about warframe being too easy,

You lost me there. Warframe isn't hard, but it definitely isn't easy UNLESS you grind for the best stuff you can possibly get. And Rivens made it worse.

If you're a casual player - like most people in this game, let's be real here - there's a fair amount of difficulty past level 30. I remember when I was new here, T1 void missions were hard AF to solo for me back then. I didn't even dare to play T4 unless I had friends with me.

 

The REAL problem with Warframe is that the Dev's seem to prefer taking "advice" from narrow minded people who don't even understand the basic game mechanics and make changes based on those - because the casual playerbase is where the money is. As a result, Veteran players feel like it's getting too easy. But that's wrong. While the game definitely is not as hard as 4-5 years ago, it also isn't easy. Again, unless you grind for the best stuff available.

Most threads complaining about difficulty often (note that I said "often", not "always") "recommend" things like adding even more enemy spawns, or increasing enemy damage output. But that's not making the game harder - it's just making it even more unbalanced. Take Profit Taker for example. It's basically Knockdown Simulator 2020. The challenge isn't in the boss itself, it's in the fact that you don't even get to fight it due to being stunlocked 24/7.

 

Really, if you want a "real" challenge, remove your mods and build a low-tier weapon like Aklato and the regular Boltor - and go play a level 40+ mission. There's your challenge.

Edited August 7, 2019 by o0Despair0o
typo