With Umbra Echoes on the way, will Umbra Forma´s give us the same Effect?

[(PSN)robi191291]

hace 3 horas, sleepychewbacca dijo:

Prime Time. 

And yeah. No abilities not permanent + DE's brilliant AI mechanics? 

It's essentially going to be a Specter. I'm personally not going to bother with it, even if it's cheap. 

 

And the worst, this is all about the new mechanic of helminth. 

No lore, no something engaging. Nothing. 

Just DE wasting our time and their time once again. 

 

[Kaotyke]

1 hour ago, 844448 said:

Amps are pretty insane if you have the build (shwaak prism has 9000 raw damage that doesn't have reduction outside armor) great for unarmored enemies like corpus, as tanky as valkyr, and have many insane arcanes you can try and that's not talking about full focus system yet

And if the problem is armor: Virtous Surge + Magus Melt.

The kicker is that Magus Melt will ADD to your damage like a Hellfire mod, so you will do 18k Radiation (You WILL die AKA Go back to the Warframe if the explosion hits you though). But we have other Amps that dont deal Self damage.

Edited August 23, 2019 by Kaotyke

[Kaotyke]

I dont like the Umbra Echo.

While I can see the appeal of having your Mods being applied to a "Specter", the moving freely should have been UMBRA's niche. Not something we can just give to other frames, even if its for a limited time.

[SneakyErvin]

I really dont understand why they limit it to a 24h buff. As said previously here, we soon have over 40 frames, that means we'll have to visit each of those new disruption places atleast 40 times each. And that is by holding out a longshot hope for the thing to drop in every single run. We are likely looking at far more runs than 80ish even with a high drop rate.

They will also be a worse version of Specters because they will use no abilities at all.

What exactly is the point in getting them?

[Autongnosis]

Il y a 1 heure, NocheLuz a dit :

It is almost confirm to be One-Time use. Since they did said they want player to revisited those node.

Best way to have me never even touch the mode. Jesus christ. 

[LarryOtter]

vor 1 Stunde schrieb 844448:

Amps are pretty insane if you have the build (shwaak prism has 9000 raw damage that doesn't have reduction outside armor) great for unarmored enemies like corpus, as tanky as valkyr, and have many insane arcanes you can try and that's not talking about full focus system yet

 

vor 13 Minuten schrieb Kaotyke:

And if the problem is armor: Virtous Surge + Magus Melt.

The kicker is that Magus Melt will ADD to your damage like a Hellfire mod, so you will do 18k Radiation (You WILL die AKA Go back to the Warframe if the explosion hits you though). But we have other Amps that dont deal Self damage.

Still having to farm 2x 0,2% drop chance is not worth for some extra fire power while in operator mode for 24 Hours.

also you will never achieve as much power with an OP as you have with a warframe 

[Melkfet]

To make this worth our time it has to be tied with some other update. A mission/open world/emyrion/TNW/etc.

Because if it's just a stand alone aspect of gameplay, it is usless

[(PSN)Hikuro-93]

4 minutes ago, Kaotyke said:

I dont like the Umbra Echo.

While I can see the appeal of having your Mods being applied to a "Specter", the moving freely should have been UMBRA's niche. Not something we can just give to other frames, even if its for a limited time.

Agreed. Either keep it for Umbra only, or give all frames equal terms and make it permanent honestly. It's almost like they went trough the effort of offering what so many people wanted (not me, though, as I'd keep it Umbra-only) and delivered a half baked and very poopy version of it for heck's sake.

Such depth to the rewards they said they'd improve on this release. I really hope there's more to it since at this point Kuva Disruption is the only one that stands a chance at being played regularly. And even then I'm curious to see how Disruption's way of working (by skewing the rotations) will affect rewarded Kuva quantities.

I dream of a time where DE doesn't rely mainly on hype to calm the crowds, just to then fail to live up to it. Which I see as spitting upwards and hoping the spit doesn't land on the face. But it does.

[Moriscu]

I'll just leave here what I posted in another feedback thread.

Quote

there are going to be such weird things like sentient Garuda targeting her own Blood Altars, just as all the pet/specter AIs do, rendering herself or other sentient warframes completely useless in that mode, and exactly the same thing would happen to Titania and her Lantern. As you can see, these poorly designed in terms of friendly AI behaviour abilities are literally blossoming with a trolling potential. Not sure if there are other warframes that have similar abilities. I hope some dev will read this and do something before rolling out the mainline.

 

[KIREEK]

Disruption in lua and kuva fortress sounds sweet, altought as usual, in order to play those missions, other missions are left in the dust, unless you have alot of free time to do just about everything in equilibrium.

The reward itself is an option really, specters scale in level, making them more powerfull than players, you can also craft several of them, so replacing them  isn't an issue.

Specters however use unmodded stuff, so the utility is hard to get, umbra excall doesn't suffer from that.

There are disadvantages however, AI isn't smart to move around like a player, so the static and almost damage imune warframe is replaced with a squishy frame that moves ata a snail pace, so there is a high chance that when you return to your warframe, you may near death.

A powerfull combination is to enter operator mode when you have low health and then heal the warframe while you dish out damage and CC in those few seconds, when you get back to your frame you resume gameplay at full health, even under heavy fire your warframe can endure alot more damage than normal when the operator is being used, with CC and damage in the mix your warframe becomes unkillable and will only die in 1 hit kills or in heavy damage situations where you don't react fast enough (or the game, depending on ping)

So having the memories can potentially kill your warframe when you enter operator mode, i personally wouldn't recomend using the mode, on lower level content it's fine and a good gimmick that does has it's uses to increase efficiency, let's be honest, having 2 things killing enemies is better than just 1, altough the AI isn't all that great and we can discuss if 2 is really better than just 1.

The potential for afk gameplay will obviously skyrocket and so will the reports, so i sugest that under the umbra mode, don't go afk with your operator, because regardless of the kills, you may still get warned from that behavior if someone provides clear evidence that you were afk in your operator mode, so please don't compromise your account over something this gimmicky, because if your goal to using this is to remain afk while your rhino does all the work, get ready to get reported.

[SneakyErvin]

1 hour ago, 844448 said:

Amps are pretty insane if you have the build (shwaak prism has 9000 raw damage that doesn't have reduction outside armor) great for unarmored enemies like corpus, as tanky as valkyr, and have many insane arcanes you can try and that's not talking about full focus system yet

9000 raw damage, no mods to buff it, low crit chance (even worse if you wanna focus on a damage type aside from void), poor scaling, limited reach, horrible RoF and so on. Why would I ever use it over an actual WF gun?

People (you included) also seem to miss that specters are extremely cheap and come in large bundles when crafted, they also come with useful abilities that the echo simply wont allow. I mean the whole reason for specters is that they come with useful abilities. Then aside from that we have the farming possiblities of the specters, which have a guaranteed 100% drop chance of the type you want. I doubt echos will be 100% and eitherway you need 2 different parts.

Sure if you played for 24 hours they'd be useful compared to specters, but that just isnt the case. So a stack of specters will very likely last you longer than an echo either way.

After that you need to take into consideration that umbra mode will drop any and all channel skills, so the usefulness will be even smaller across the roster. Not to mention that it will also clunk up eidolon hunting for the specific frame during the 24h period since umbra mode removes the damage reduction that operator mode provides to frames.

[Marvelous_A]

This item is kind of useless given its non-permanent nature and it totally breaks the lore. 

[Circle_of_Psi]

36 minutes ago, Blexander said:

They're trying out new things, I wouldn't fault them for it, but my god have some of showcased additions to game been all over the place. Shawzin? It only exist for people who know how to make/like to listen to music.

The new features they release follow a linear path of "add something new -> see if the community likes it -> they like it? ok; they don't? promise to fix it soon(tm)".

I think they're just lacking focus, but they can't afford not to please every single group, from the vets to the newbies to the niche groups like people who make songs for Octavia.

Yeah, sure trying new things, but this is unacceptable. And not sure if you kown, but if the Community don't like it, they leave it and never return to it and then add new content to try sweep what they did under the rug. Same thing happened to ESO and Arcwing.

17 minutes ago, SneakyErvin said:

I really dont understand why they limit it to a 24h buff. As said previously here, we soon have over 40 frames, that means we'll have to visit each of those new disruption places atleast 40 times each. And that is by holding out a longshot hope for the thing to drop in every single run. We are likely looking at far more runs than 80ish even with a high drop rate.

They will also be a worse version of Specters because they will use no abilities at all.

What exactly is the point in getting them?

Excaly this, we have over 40 frames (42 once the two male ones come out). so ofc we'll vist each to get each one.

There is no point in getting them.

9 minutes ago, (PS4)Hikuro-93 said:

Agreed. Either keep it for Umbra only, or give all frames equal terms and make it permanent honestly. It's almost like they went trough the effort of offering what so many people wanted (not me, though, as I'd keep it Umbra-only) and delivered a half baked and very poopy version of it for heck's sake.

Such depth to the rewards they said they'd improve on this release. I really hope there's more to it since at this point Kuva Disruption is the only one that stands a chance at being played regularly. And even then I'm curious to see how Disruption's way of working (by skewing the rotations) will affect rewarded Kuva quantities.

I dream of a time where DE doesn't rely mainly on hype to calm the crowds, just to then fail to live up to it. Which I see as spitting upwards and hoping the spit doesn't land on the face. But it does.

This

5 minutes ago, (XB1)GaussPrime said:

Just yesterday someone made jokes about the changes that came when this Chinese company took over half of DE ^^

Ooof

[NightmareT12]

Just now, Marvelous_A said:

This item is kind of useless given its non-permanent nature and it totally breaks the lore. 

I don't think it breaks the lore, as it's transferring memories. Could be handled better, yes.

I think the 24 hours is simply too short but I get why they don't want it to be permanent. Should be 72 hours to make it properly efficient, to be honest.

[Drachnyn]

vor 2 Minuten schrieb KIREEK:

The potential for afk gameplay will obviously skyrocket and so will the reports, so i sugest that under the umbra mode, don't go afk with your operator, because regardless of the kills, you may still get warned from that behavior if someone provides clear evidence that you were afk in your operator mode, so please don't compromise your account over something this gimmicky, because if your goal to using this is to remain afk while your rhino does all the work, get ready to get reported.

I dont understand why DE keeps implementing this stuff when at other points their intention is to stop afk gameplay. Yet Umbra got this passive, Wukong got his celestial twin and now this.

[sungod1]

This is about worthless as a cosmetic. 

[Moriscu]

2 minutes ago, Drachnyn said:

Yet Umbra got this passive, Wukong got his celestial twin and now this.

It's funny how people started discovering cooperation with an AI only after Wukong's and Umbra's implementation, putting it in that way as if Duality has never existed.

[NightmareT12]

Just now, Morisabeau said:

It's funny how people started discovering cooperation with an AI only after Wukong's and Umbra's implementation, putting it in that way as if Duality has never existed.

Or Warframe specters.

[Cubewano]

20 minutes ago, (PS4)robi191291 said:

And the worst, this is all about the new mechanic of helminth. 

No lore, no something engaging. Nothing. 

Just DE wasting our time and their time once again. 

 

We don't know if there is lore yet, the update has not arrived. It's also good the helminth room is gaining some more use than just cyst draining, it lost its originally purpose several years ago and since then has just waiting idly for better re-purposing. 

And you don't have to waste your time if you don't want to, it is an optional feature in an optional mission in an optional game, your life will very much go on regardless of if this reward happens or not without impedance. It being a waste of time on DE's end is yet to be seen however as it isn't out yet to gather numbers from, though things being wasteful is exactly what brought them to this direction to begin with, past reward methods proved lacking or problematic so they're clearly trying for something else. 

Frankly I'm fine with a gimmicky expiration item that provides a brief bend on play that can be casually picked up as you like via farming. Not everything needs be a compulsive power progressor/creep to be burnt through and then turned forgotten.

[SneakyErvin]

10 minutes ago, Morisabeau said:

It's funny how people started discovering cooperation with an AI only after Wukong's and Umbra's implementation, putting it in that way as if Duality has never existed.

Except duality requires you to build for it, rendering the rest of the kit nearly useless. Neither Umbra or Wukong give anything up for their clone/specter to work well.

10 minutes ago, NightmareT12 said:

Or Warframe specters.

A specter will never give you the possibility to afk a mission, their damage just isnt high enough.

[844448]

39 minutes ago, SneakyErvin said:

9000 raw damage, no mods to buff it, low crit chance (even worse if you wanna focus on a damage type aside from void), poor scaling, limited reach, horrible RoF and so on. Why would I ever use it over an actual WF gun?

People (you included) also seem to miss that specters are extremely cheap and come in large bundles when crafted, they also come with useful abilities that the echo simply wont allow. I mean the whole reason for specters is that they come with useful abilities. Then aside from that we have the farming possiblities of the specters, which have a guaranteed 100% drop chance of the type you want. I doubt echos will be 100% and eitherway you need 2 different parts.

Sure if you played for 24 hours they'd be useful compared to specters, but that just isnt the case. So a stack of specters will very likely last you longer than an echo either way.

After that you need to take into consideration that umbra mode will drop any and all channel skills, so the usefulness will be even smaller across the roster. Not to mention that it will also clunk up eidolon hunting for the specific frame during the 24h period since umbra mode removes the damage reduction that operator mode provides to frames.

I see echo as a placeholder while crafting specters since they take quite a while to craft and a saving of a charge/extra power along with specters (take it as a fifth specter)

[Kaotyke]

1 hour ago, LarryOtter said:

Still having to farm 2x 0,2% drop chance is not worth for some extra fire power while in operator mode for 24 Hours.

also you will never achieve as much power with an OP as you have with a warframe 

What the hell are you talking about? We are talking about Magus and Virtous Arcanes, which can be bought with Syndicate Standing. Not the Umbra Echo.

[Midas]

Mistake on D.E.'s part to force people to grind an unnecessary thing

* Low percentage of players actually get to operator usage in game

* Umbra really makes no difference imo with his passive

* Specters are dumb AI

These echos are unnecessary and another bs reward that is not achievement based and is not worth our time.

Edited August 23, 2019 by Midas

[sinnae]

Low drop chance, particular to one niche game-type, temporary consumable - is exactly the kind of thing I decide not to grind for at all.

I'm all about the permanent boosts to my character and kit. I'll grind focus all day, do mindless tasks for umbral forma, etc. but I won't grind for something with a 24 hour expiry. I would grind a thousand of these if it meant I could unlock "Umbra mode" on one frame permanently.

Edited August 23, 2019 by sinnae

[Lokidus_Prime]

4 hours ago, sinnae said:

Low drop chance, particular to one niche game-type, temporary consumable - is exactly the kind of thing I decide not to grind for at all.

I'm all about the permanent boosts to my character and kit. I'll grind focus all day, do mindless tasks for umbral forma, etc. but I won't grind for something with a 24 hour expiry. I would grind a thousand of these if it meant I could unlock "Umbra mode" on one frame permanently.

As someone who avidly despises most consumables in almost any game, I 100% agree with this. 

Edited August 23, 2019 by Lokidus_Prime