People are too quick to hate something new, IE Combat Discipline

[Autongnosis]

Il y a 2 heures, Dr.Tursko a dit :

Oh my god.

Okay maybe this does have a really small use with Barruk then.

Only if it doesn't bypass DRs, which I'm sure it does considering DE's history. 

[Otobai]

People are too quick to like something new, IE Combat Discipline. 

[belanya]

Maybe cause they are doing mistakes after mistakes after mistakes?

They cant provide decent rewards with their new/recycled content.

Il y a 3 heures, Dr.Tursko a dit :

Thats right, DE wants you to try something new. Your meta build will just burn you out, 

Since they cant get better stuff than what we currently have they are trying to give different options. Yeah i get it. But they fail... They really fail, cause there is already plenty of different options. They cant even provide good meme material, and anyways there is already tons of meme material in the game to really bother with that...

Just the healing pet aura. Tell me when you want that?

Or the wall latch set with disruption release. Tell me how much player ll enjoy playing like that?

 

So yeah : New =/= Intersting

 

They are just out of ideas and they dont want to work on the major issues of the game. Since they prefer to recycle their player base than to keep them.

Oh, and absolutely no need to play meta in this game to crush 99% of content.

 

The only good thing i could use would be the combo counter aura, since it open a free slot on your melee it could be good.

But here is the secret, at higher level, when your aura choice ll matter, corosive projection is far better than anything else and at lower level it doesnt matter since everything ll die anyways...

 

Also there is far more people very entusiastic about anything DE release than what you think. Just look at steam reviews, always overwhelming outside of very recently cause of a weird thing with chinese community.

[Midas]

3 hours ago, Dr.Tursko said:

I wont lie, the second I saw that arcane, i was bewildered.

But when you take a step back and think, you realize that you can make new and interesting builds with this. It just requires the right frame.

Thats right, DE wants you to try something new. Your meta build will just burn you out, 

 

Combat discipline will work great with Barruk, or even with Inaros/Nidus. You can heal yourself easily while also making it so you get energy from Hunter Adrenaline. 

 

What other builds do you think could work with these new arcanes and auras?

If it is inefficent and pointless with the current damage system, i'm not wasting my time to develop "unique" builds.

[Aldain]

It just really has no place in Warframe right now, too much "Kill everything before it can shoot you" going on.

The entire selection of Aura mods is also lopsided as only about 2-3 of them are particularly good and this can't compete with even the second string auras because of the fact that it PUNISHES YOU FOR PLAYING WARFRAME.

Warframe currently doesn't need a healbot because the damage (both incoming and outgoing) are so utterly messed up at higher levels that healing isn't relevant because things start dealing massive damage which in turn demands, not healing, but killing even faster because of the threat of getting one-shot.

At lower levels this mod isn't useful because low level enemies TICKLE even the weakest frames, even at mid level things aren't designed for needing a healbot, the game just isn't designed for something like this right now.

[(PSN)Double991]

On it's own the aura is borderline a waste however when stacking multiple, you can create something interesting at least.

[Dr.Tursko]

4 hours ago, Afterburner_X said:

Combat Discipline: Allies gain 20 Health when they make a kill, but the aura bearer loses 10 Health when the bearer makes a kill. Mhh okay... Let's see what other Aura mods exists...

Corrosive Projection: Aura mod that reduces armor for all enemies in a mission by 30%. Whoa... This one seems to be pretty good. 

My conclusion is that I don't like that new Aura. It's bad. Or maybe Corrosive Projection is just too strong. ^__^

CP is really, REALLY good.

[nslay]

Corrosive Projection is not very strong solo, kinda mediocre with 2 players using it, stronger with 3 players using it and extremely effective when all 4 players use it.

I made a bunch of plots of damage reduction vs armor and even did some math for the peak maximum difference between N CPs and 0 CPs and yeah... you really want 100%+ armor reduction of armor for the "protracted" endless msision or CP isn't going to keep up with armor scaling. For everything else, it doesn't matter as much.

[Diavoros]

The mod is nice unless you are a caveman saryn nuker, of course you will get yourself killed using the aura! It works great for frames that don't need to kill stuff or that can kill without being worried about suicide like Limbo, Inaros, Valkyr, etc

[seprent]

5 hours ago, Afterburner_X said:

Combat Discipline: Allies gain 20 Health when they make a kill, but the aura bearer loses 10 Health when the bearer makes a kill. Mhh okay... Let's see what other Aura mods exists...

Corrosive Projection: Aura mod that reduces armor for all enemies in a mission by 30%. Whoa... This one seems to be pretty good. 

My conclusion is that I don't like that new Aura. It's bad. Or maybe Corrosive Projection is just too strong. ^__^

*Cannot remember the last time legit using Corrosive projection because it's boring* 

[Aldain]

32 minutes ago, nslay said:

Corrosive Projection is not very strong solo

It is nearly 1/3rd of the enemy armor being removed when used solo, 30% less armor is still more damage on average than the increase in damage than a weapon boosting Aura because it cuts down on enemy damage reduction.

30% less armor is strong because armor as a whole is strong, anything that reduces it helps because the net gains on reducing armor scale as exponentially as armor does (with the exception of 0 armor reducing the bonus damage of elements strong against armor, but that is a different story).

[GPrime96]

24 minutes ago, seprent said:

*Cannot remember the last time legit using Corrosive projection because it's boring* 

I’m the same with ^^. Can’t see myself using that Aura with the Weapons and Frames we got in the Game.

[seprent]

6 minutes ago, GPrime96 said:

I’m the same with ^^. Can’t see myself using that Aura with the Weapons and Frames we got in the Game.

well i dont use it because

1. am a shotgun fanatic
2. so many easy ways to apply slash procs (true damage ignores armor entirely)
3. my default element is corrosive or radiation that does i think 75% bonus damage to armor (if i get both im a happy camper) 
4. i generally aim for headshots or center of mass (does not have much to do with it besides head shot multiplayers) 
5. Crit build viral ignis wraith is far more effective then one could expect (War crimes are fun) 

[tzadquiel]

7 hours ago, (PS4)drpunk-yo said:

Apart from wiki says does not trigger rage or hunter adrenaline.

well we can already see the non triggering rage part across the community

[nslay]

41 minutes ago, Aldain said:

It is nearly 1/3rd of the enemy armor being removed when used solo, 30% less armor is still more damage on average than the increase in damage than a weapon boosting Aura because it cuts down on enemy damage reduction.

30% less armor is strong because armor as a whole is strong, anything that reduces it helps because the net gains on reducing armor scale as exponentially as armor does (with the exception of 0 armor reducing the bonus damage of elements strong against armor, but that is a different story).

In terms of damage reduction as a result of the 30% armor reduction is not actually a lot. The difference between 1 CP and 0 CP has a maximum percentage difference of just under 10%. So no, it's not very strong solo. We've all been fooled by the meta crowd... the conventional wisdom is nearly moot except for the case of 100% armor reduction.

Here are my plots and math:

On 2019-09-14 at 12:16 PM, nslay said:

I've plotted 0, 1, 2 and 3 CP's effect on enemy damage reduction using the formula documented on the wiki

https://warframe.fandom.com/wiki/Armor

  Reveal hidden contents

And I've plotted the absolute difference between 0 CP and 1, 2 and 3 CP.

  Reveal hidden contents

As you can see, 1 CP doesn't seem to make an enormous difference (only around 10% damage reduction difference max). I guess that's why I have to bring Akjagara Prime mod'd for armor stripping to solo T5 Cetus bounties in order to 1-2 shot level 60 drop ships with any of these snipers (Rubico Prime, Lanka, Vulkar Wraith) despite using CP.

And a little more!

On 2019-09-14 at 2:27 PM, nslay said:

Using a bit of basic calculus, here are some surprisingly nice formulae as a function of armor remaining (1-armor reduction).

  Reveal hidden contents

EDIT: And here's a plot of that

  Reveal hidden contents

 

 

[DrBorris]

9 hours ago, sleepychewbacca said:

Or you know, imagine that people just can have different tastes?

You like it, I hate it. 

That's not too hard to imagine isn't it?

Not commenting on Combat Discipline directly, but just because you hate something it does not mean it is bad. I hate the taste of peppers, but I can also recognize that other people like them. Peppers are not "bad", I just don't like then. Don't confuse disliking something for thinking something is bad. You are entitled to your opinion but your opinion does not determine something's value, it is a very useful skill to be able to look past your bias.

[(PSN)Silverback73]

11 hours ago, sleepychewbacca said:

Or you know, imagine that people just can have different tastes?

You like it, I hate it. 

That's not too hard to imagine isn't it?

Oof...fumbled at the 2-yard-line.

[Rogunz]

5 hours ago, nslay said:

In terms of damage reduction as a result of the 30% armor reduction is not actually a lot. The difference between 1 CP and 0 CP has a maximum percentage difference of just under 10%. So no, it's not very strong solo. We've all been fooled by the meta crowd... the conventional wisdom is nearly moot except for the case of 100% armor reduction.

You are misunderstanding how DR works.

If something has 99% DR and you reduce it by a mere 1% you are doing double the damage.

If something has 90% DR and you reduce it to 85% that's 1.5x damage.

Armor is so strong that even the slight reduction from 1 CP can give you more than any other aura.

2 CP is so much better that no other aura even comes close.

[nslay]

29 minutes ago, Rogunz said:

You are misunderstanding how DR works.

If something has 99% DR and you reduce it by a mere 1% you are doing double the damage.

If something has 90% DR and you reduce it to 85% that's 1.5x damage.

Armor is so strong that even the slight reduction from 1 CP can give you more than any other aura.

2 CP is so much better that no other aura even comes close.

If you do 2% damage instead of 1% damage, you are indeed doing double the damage. But you are actually still doing 2% damage... which is still worthless. You are better off stripping the armor than relying on less than 100% armor reduction for the "protracted" endless mission.

And the math doesn't lie. Two CPs peaks at 22 percentage points of damage reduction difference compared to 0 CPs at ~474 armor. Any armor quantity less than 474 or greater than 474 yields a damage reduction difference of less than 22 percentage points. If you have, for example, an enemy with 10000 armor, the difference in damage reduction is about 4% (97% with 0 CPs and 93% with two CPs)... But hey, why let the fact that you are doing an abysmal 7% damage instead of just 3% damage stop you? Relatively you're doing 133% more damage than 0 CPs! Amazing that 7% damage you'd be doing!

And 1 CP? You are besting the enemy's damage reduction by a quantity of less than 8.9%. And as with two CPs example, this is the peak value! The absolute difference tapers off too with more armor.

Edited September 20, 2019 by nslay

[sleepychewbacca]

On 2019-09-20 at 5:24 AM, DrBorris said:

Not commenting on Combat Discipline directly, but just because you hate something it does not mean it is bad. I hate the taste of peppers, but I can also recognize that other people like them. Peppers are not "bad", I just don't like then. Don't confuse disliking something for thinking something is bad. You are entitled to your opinion but your opinion does not determine something's value, it is a very useful skill to be able to look past your bias.

No bias, but merely commenting that it's perfectly normal for people to dislike something mate? In this case OP likes it, so I took the opposite stance merely for illustration. 

Do point out where I mentioned said Combat Discipline is bad?

[ChromeKat]

This mod could use a buff on what it does at the expense of forcing you to avoid kills or using it on a DPS frame.

Sacrificing your own gameplay for 10 HP per ally kill isn't great. Also, the aura only heals allies if they score a kill themselves. You're basically encouraged to AFK to let allies do all the work as killing enemies yourself will cut your HP.

Frankly, if you're running it on a Support/Healer setup like Oberon/Trinity/Inaros/Nidus they already have healing abilities which heals at a better consistent rate and doesn't cut your HP.

If you're planning to use it on a non-healer frame, Magus Repair exists. It doesn't take up an aura slot and also heals much faster than Combat Discipline (albeit in a 20m radius, which is still fairly okay).

[Aesthier]

I don't hate it.

I just find it useless in my style of play which suits me just fine:)

One less thing I have to grind for and one more thing to sell if I get one.

[Ryim_Drykeon]

.

Edited September 21, 2019 by Ryim_Drykeon

[Hypernaut1]

On 2019-09-19 at 9:26 PM, nslay said:

If you do 2% damage instead of 1% damage, you are indeed doing double the damage. But you are actually still doing 2% damage... which is still worthless. You are better off stripping the armor than relying on less than 100% armor reduction for the "protracted" endless mission.

And the math doesn't lie. Two CPs peaks at 22 percentage points of damage reduction difference compared to 0 CPs at ~474 armor. Any armor quantity less than 474 or greater than 474 yields a damage reduction difference of less than 22 percentage points. If you have, for example, an enemy with 10000 armor, the difference in damage reduction is about 4% (97% with 0 CPs and 93% with two CPs)... But hey, why let the fact that you are doing an abysmal 7% damage instead of just 3% damage stop you? Relatively you're doing 133% more damage than 0 CPs! Amazing that 7% damage you'd be doing!

And 1 CP? You are besting the enemy's damage reduction by a quantity of less than 8.9%. And as with two CPs example, this is the peak value! The absolute difference tapers off too with more armor.

I'm too slow to understand this. So you're trying to say CP is not doing much? What? 

[Kaotyke]

I'm trying it out with Nidus.

Might be good if I'm using a frame like Nyx and am paried with a Mesa or a Saryn.

GladOS: It requires further testing.