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Lykk3

Riven Disposition changes only makes things worse, never better.

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1 minute ago, Valiant said:

That's good and well, until a new variant comes along and usually ends up destroying the nice benefits you enjoyed when having a riven as there's a sudden rise in popularity, which is only tempory.

Then that's even better. The weapon I enjoy will get a naturally better variant, that doesn't need a riven to push it further.

You can even keep using the riven, which will probably be still better than any other mod you could use, or just sell it for those "day 1"-high prices.

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How DE is handling Riven disposition is not only how they intended the system to originally work but is exactly how players wanted them to handle it after they started dropping the ball on updating them. This is one of the many times where what DE is doing is exactly what a lot of players wanted.

But beyond that people put way too much stock into this system considering Rivens have no practical benefits besides seeing higher numbers and making more weapons viable. Higher numbers mean nothing and weapon viability only matters for variety but is in no way necessary. Even something like TriCaps don't provide a purpose when you can just as easily abuse the shot combo on a Rubico to one shot limbs without a Riven.

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59 minutes ago, (NSW)Fiftycentis said:

All while also not having a proper endgame where a riven makes the difference because we can clear all content with close to any weapon if decently modded 

Yes and no. 

Although we could do everything in the game even before rivens, it's easier to do it after them. Especially when you have to carry a team for whatever reason. 

You're never going to have a WoW/EQ style endgame. It's simply not going to happen the way this game is configured. The most you might ask for are difficulty sliders similar to what you see in Diablo 3. DE hasn't really telegraphed where they're planning on going with all this. At a guess, we might get a clue with the PoD. 

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I pretty much exclusively collect and use Rivens for underused weapons. If you're looking for that "majority of players who collect rivens for the weapons with the best stats and/or mechanics", you can count me against.

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If the idea of the dispo passes every 3 months is to increase the viability of all the underused/trash weapons, there should be literally dozens of weapons getting their rivens buffed each time.  Yet that's not what we see.  Instead, the communities favourite weapons get hit each time and a tiny number of trash weapons get buffed.

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I don't have a small enough violin to play for this problem.

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It's worse for the people that depend on their precious plat economy. I'd be peeved too if I was some 1 percenter selling and buying and reselling rivens. But no one is gonna die because they have 60 CC instead of 89.

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1 hour ago, trst said:

This is one of the many times where what DE is doing is exactly what a lot of players wanted.

And cue people coming out of the woodwork to say the previously popular suggestion was mentioned by absolutely nobody and DE is obviously just trying to hurt the players. DE can't win with the much vaunted community around Warframe.

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After confirming that riven stats change with disposition and NOT with new rolls after changes then I decided to scratch my approach to them, transmute, sell them and completely forget about them, I used them as wildcards to replace mandatory mods in a single slot but turns out they can still change without me noticing until I see the stats once again, that means they won't even turn MR fodder weapons into something useful because the moment they become popular they turn said weapons into MR fodder once again.

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Daily reminder that Rivens are completely unnecessary for general gameplay and only offer a plus for the ALREADY STRONG weapons that have the highest nerfs on disposition. If you are dumb enough to pay overpriced rivens for popular strong weapons, be ready to have your precious investment ruined on every new Prime Access disposition changes.

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1 hour ago, (XB1)Hyperion Rexx said:

If the idea of the dispo passes every 3 months is to increase the viability of all the underused/trash weapons, there should be literally dozens of weapons getting their rivens buffed each time.  Yet that's not what we see.  Instead, the communities favourite weapons get hit each time and a tiny number of trash weapons get buffed.

Not every weapon needs to be touched each pass. Several are in the middle area.

We saw 15 buffs this last pass and 11 nerfs.

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1 hour ago, VanFanel1980mx said:

After confirming that riven stats change with disposition and NOT with new rolls after changes then I decided to scratch my approach to them, transmute, sell them and completely forget about them, I used them as wildcards to replace mandatory mods in a single slot but turns out they can still change without me noticing until I see the stats once again, that means they won't even turn MR fodder weapons into something useful because the moment they become popular they turn said weapons into MR fodder once again.

The moment a fodder weapon becomes popular and thus drops in disposition is the moment said weapon has a purpose and is no longer fodder. Which really is the entire point of the shifting dispositions.

Also It takes an incredibly low disposition for a Riven to not have a stat higher than an existing mod, not even considering the fact that they can have three beneficial stats.

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I honestly would like to see some data about total kills/damage in game being perfomed by weapons and what percentage by warframe powers. Soo much aching about rivens when any saryn/equinox/mesa/gara/volt or whatever nuke frame will control most maps with impunity. Warframes dont have rivens but i wouldnt be surprised if those are the main DPS source, so why all this complaining about rivens? Why even put in all that time if your weapon isnt your main source of dps?

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9 minutes ago, trst said:

The moment a fodder weapon becomes popular and thus drops in disposition is the moment said weapon has a purpose and is no longer fodder. Which really is the entire point of the shifting dispositions.

Also It takes an incredibly low disposition for a Riven to not have a stat higher than an existing mod, not even considering the fact that they can have three beneficial stats.

I had a +280 Damage Cernos riven with two other beneficial stats, as long as it can go 165% (Full Serration) I consider it a substitute.

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First thing, nerfing because of usage is bad. In most games, most players are either average or bad, you can see this in any game that has any form of ranking, either because of natural talent, because people don't try to improve at it or tecnical problems (bad computer, bad internet, etc), and Warframe is no different. There are some weapons that are strong building in a way but most people won't know, because they are bad at building, they are still watching Leyzar build guides. Man, if you go at Konzu Eidolon bounty, you can still see Chromas that take 3 magazines to destroy a limb (don't blame rivens plz).

Nerfing should be because of common sense, if it is strong = nerf, if it is weak = buff, not just "usage".

I know it is what has been since they created  RIven, but it is bad, and lazy, and idiot, and a retard way to nerf things.

Let's take snipers, a eidolon hunt takes 40-50 mins with a group of four, four of them are usually with a Rubico, but are they four using it??? Generally not, only the DPSer (Chroma, Rhino, etc) and that's 40-50 mins that there were four people with Rubico even though only one was actually using it to do dmg.

Snipers would be a group of weapon of Rivens that could easily be put on a good disposition by just asking people that know how to do it, ask Doublexxf, Luxxf, etc. If I were to put snipers Riven dispo in a good place, I would put.

 

Rubico -> 0.55 - 0.6 
Lanka -> 0.9 - 1.0
Vectis -> Think Vectis is good at 0.8, could be more

Vulkar ->1.3 and above is a good spot

Snipetron -> Should be above Vulkar, just this.

Edit: Just checked my profile, Rubico is my most usage weapon even though, I don't use it for nothing other than eidolon, and I usually don't use it when I'm on eidolon too (unless I'm the dpser). I don't actually use the weapon even though, I'm with it.
 

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12 minutes ago, MPonder said:

First thing, nerfing because of usage is bad. 
Nerfing should be because of common sense, if it is strong = nerf, if it is weak = buff, not just "usage".

They don’t adjust disposition purely on usage anymore. Now they also take into account an “internal power ranking” that they have yet to disclose, with the intention seemly being the stabilization of Riven disposition.

They reference this in the recent Prime Access disposition workshops.

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38 minutes ago, ExcaliburUmbra said:

They don’t adjust disposition purely on usage anymore. Now they also take into account an “internal power ranking” that they have yet to disclose, with the intention seemly being the stabilization of Riven disposition.

They reference this in the recent Prime Access disposition workshops.

Oh, I read that one time, but I completily forgot, since it was one time. Thx.

-----------------------------

Continue about riven dispo changes, Dispo changes are still too slow. Like some people already said, riven is like something that keep people playing, since it is kind a end-game upgrade that some people want (me included), even though, there is no end-game, HAHAHAHA. And this riven dispo change hurt these people because there is a lot of time, pl grind and the time you waste on sites, forums, trade chat and sometimes even on discord to look for the Riven you want for the weapon you want.

Again with Rubico, released on September of 2018 if I'm right, it took so long to nerf its Riven. Riven dispo nerf has to be faster, 2 and 2 months, and more hard, like from 1.0 to 0.55 all the way in one Update, so people know what they will get when they get Rivens and if they get #*!%ed with it, it is because they rushed to buy it. Stop with the 1.0 normal dispo for when a weapon is released, put it in a place that you guys from DE think it is right, if you guys release a weapon with dispo of 1.0, should mean the weapon is balanced by your standards, now if you guys nerf all the way to 0.5, mean you guys are bad at it by releasing such unbalanced weapons (like catchmoon). Why release it in the first place.

But also, by now, people should learn and stop rushing to buy riven for OP weapons, use your brain and think ahead if the dispo of the weapon will be nerfed or not when a Weapon is released.

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1 hour ago, MPonder said:

Nerfing should be because of common sense, if it is strong = nerf, if it is weak = buff, not just "usage".

It's not (just?) usage anymore.

In one of the last few disposition balance threads, it was mentioned that DE would use an internal criteria power level ranking.

Source: https://forums.warframe.com/topic/1063503-riven-changes-part-2/

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 Many people leave weapons in their gear using only one weapon most of the time. For example, if  you bring a  rubico on your mission but you use only a melee every time and in every mission,  the rubico will increase the stats of most used weapons even if you don't shot a single bullet with it and this is pretty stupid.

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49 minutes ago, bibmobello said:

 Many people leave weapons in their gear using only one weapon most of the time. For example, if  you bring a  rubico on your mission but you use only a melee every time and in every mission,  the rubico will increase the stats of most used weapons even if you don't shot a single bullet with it and this is pretty stupid.

That's assuming their usage stats are based solely on having them equipped. DE has never given us the exact metrics they use besides calling it "usage".

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Seeing as how 15 of the 26 disposition changes in the last update were actually BUFFS I'd say this isn't entirely true. 

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I'm sure DE can see what weapons and frames you bring into each mission.  In fact I know that for a fact otherwise how would they know what frame is most and least popular on a pie chart.  

'No one uses these weapons they buffed' false.  I guarantee you that someone is using any weapon on a given day.  Are there a lot of people using the weapon they buffed?  No.  Otherwise they wouldn't buff its disposition.  Tonkor is getting to be a lot better though with how much they've buffed the disposition while it won't go back to it's useage levels prior to the self damage aspect of it being nerfed I can realistically use the tonkor if I get a good riven for it and likely see it perform at a very high level with hunter munitions in the mix now.  

This whole riven disposition complaining though is just classic people will complain about anything, even if people asked for riven disposition updates for years before they finally picked up the slack and started doing dispo changes.  Did I wish they never nerfed rubico rivens?  Absolutely, I had a beautiful rubico riven before the prime came out and it's dispo was untouched that had cc, cd, multishot of 100.3%, and -ammo max.  It was incredible on the base rubico, and even nicer on rubico prime but that was the nail in the coffin that and people using snipers almost exclusively for eidolon hunts.  

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9 hours ago, Xenonthetenno said:

 

11 weapon people uses most(don't understand akjagara and cyanex though. People loved them but they was not THAT popular) goes down

16 which almost noone uses got buffed. Ive never seen tonkor user since DE killed it.

weapon user zero = zero people buffed

The problem is most of the unused guns are outdated. Maybe the stats are too low, or they have mechanism people don't prefer. No matter how much you sharpen the blades, a stone axe is still a stone axe. DE needs to change their blades into steel if they want us to use them

One could look at it as a way of DE subtly trying to get people out of the rut they have dug themselves into by only using the meta weapons and actually go out and find that the non meta weapons are just as good. Of what got buffed this round much of that is hardly out of date (unless your a extremely blinkered meta feta consumer)

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1 hour ago, AzureTerra said:

One could look at it as a way of DE subtly trying to get people out of the rut they have dug themselves into by only using the meta weapons and actually go out and find that the non meta weapons are just as good. Of what got buffed this round much of that is hardly out of date (unless your a extremely blinkered meta feta consumer)

I can see that many weapon that got buffed is the one which were meta or popular before. Marelok, gammacor, simulor, etc. The ones people had already used potato and forma. Seems to me DE is trying to say "you remember those good ol' days you spent with these?" So yes, i think it is true DE wants us to use various weapons.

But again, there are reasons people dont use them anymore and i am quite sure existance of the catchmoon is most of the reason but not the only reason

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There are some weapons that are really good with rivens but few people use them. Naturally, the people who do use them won't advertise it because then they might become popular and their rivens nerfed :-P.

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