(PC) Kuva Liches / Parazon / Kuva Weapons / Etc. Feedback

[SilkTerror]

ive done like 9 Magnectic liches for their ephemera after the increased drop rate of ephemeras  im on 10th and it has no ephemera am i unlucky or is there something im doing wrong ?

[Ham_Grenabe]

15 minutes ago, SilkTerror said:

ive done like 9 Magnectic liches for their ephemera after the increased drop rate of ephemeras  im on 10th and it has no ephemera am i unlucky or is there something im doing wrong ?

Just RNG, I think. I saw someone posting that it took like, 45 Liches to get a particular ephemera. 

[(XBOX)The Neko Otaku]

Liches feel too separated from the rest of the game as they're lock off in separate missions. Thralls should have a random chance of showing up in other missions on controlled planets, not as much as a lich territory mission but enough where i can get decent progress when needing to do other activities. Then liches themselves need to be able to attack you out of their territory as our personal rival doesn't feel personal when they're restricted to a small handful of missions and it becomes laughably easy to avoid this rival that's suppose to be hunting you down.

[HANGMAN_37]

While i have a myriad of problems with the lich system, I think the biggest problem facing the system is ending up with a low quality active lich. There is no value whatsoever in a 27% magnetic quartakk lich with no ephemera, and ending up with one as your active lich kills all motivation for me to play. At least in my experience, noone wants to trade for a lich like described, due to its poor stats, and it contributes nothing as an "ally". So knowing i'm going to need to spend 2-3 hours to get rid of it, just to try again with no reasonable belief that the next one will be better, which completely kills my motivation to play. To boil the issue down simply:

1. It takes too long to get rid of a lich with a bad roll, and they provide no meaningful reward (no, adding kuva doesn't help. You can get that elsewhere for much less effort)
2. Converted liches aren't worth anything, except to sell, and even then they aren't exactly in demand unless they have a good roll and/or an ephemera. (This may change with Empyrean but that doesnt matter at the moment).

I would suggest adding the ability to sacrifice ONE of our converted liches to instantly remove our currently active lich (or kill, or destroy, or placate, whatever. So long as they are gone permanently). This would provide no rewards (no return on stolen items, no weapons, no ephemera). This adds utility to converted liches, and allows people to skip some of the grind without completely trivializing the system.

I think this is relatively balanced, since you would need to convert one lich per lich removed. I would caution against doing any less than a complete removal (such as just having it grant murmurs regardless of quantity), since reducing something bad doesnt turn it into something good. And i dont know what you could add that could make me interested in a 27% magnetic quartakk, or my 3rd low rolled brakk, or my 4th mediocre Kohm. Making that ordeal take less time doesn't make me want to engage with that system, it just makes it slightly less of a chore.

[(XBOX)GearsMatrix301]

3 hours ago, Gabbynaru said:

It would not be any different than the times they added Noxes, Bursas, Bailiffs and any other originally event only enemies into the main core of the game. Literally nothing will change, you'll just have these enemies spawn in normal missions rather than their own nodes. That's all. And just like with the previously mentioned enemies, you can just waltz past them if you can't be bother to deal with them.

Except Noxs and Bursas don’t ACTIVELY STEAL YOUR MISSION REWARDS!

[Gabbynaru]

Just now, (XB1)GearsMatrix301 said:

Except Noxs and Bursas don’t ACTIVELY STEAL YOUR MISSION REWARDS!

That part's already integrated in the main core of the game, what are you on about?

[Tsunamie101]

12 hours ago, v1ld_wf said:

- Grind the relics (guaranteed drop from one mission type, but I'm not running any single mission the sheer number of times needed by the decision to make the necessary drops uncommons, ugh)
- Grind the void traces (!!!!!!!! seriously??????)
- Spin the RNG wheel and hope you get the 8 things you require while feeding the random relic+void trace monster, all of which are apparently uncommon drops (!!!!!!!! !)
- Then figure out which 3 of that 8 are needed by grinding a bunch of Thrall missions
- Then figure out which of the 6 possible sequences of those 3 it is

And the requiem mods expire after 3 uses, just to rub in how grindy this entire mess is.  

And the rewards are weapons you may not want (RNG) with another RNG number added to it just in case you did not think there was enough random involved in this process.

I did not want to activate it and I did. There was warning with someone saying something as I was mindlessly running Lua.  But hey I ignored it and now it's active. 

Take your time with it.
You can get on average 3-4 relics each hour. Run them in a group of 4 and there is a good chance you get several of the mods.
You get traces just from doing the requiem fissures anyway, and the mods only being uncommon it's not that necessary to pump traces into them.
Figuring out the combination really isn't that big of an issue, just go at it with a plan and not just randomly. There should already be plenty of guides available.
3 uses of a single mod is plenty of time to get a 2nd copy as long as you don't rush Liches.

You can control what kind of bonus stat the weapon has by choosing specific warframe to spawn the Lich (Gauss will get bonus impact, Nidus will get bonus toxin, etc.), but yeah, the % is random and in the future we should see improvements to that.
Kill the active Lich and you will never have to do one ever again if you don't want to.

[(PSN)AbBaNdOn_]

Interesting Lich/Murmur feedback from console.

So my friend and I both had new Lich's and we both needed to go farm murmurs yesterday.   HIs Lich was on Jupiter and mine was on Earth (in the beginning).

-Doing Murmur missions in his Lich's turf resulted in my Lich never gaining aggression towards me.  This can be good or bad depending on the type of player you are.   I face my Lich and throw down with him whenever he shows up.  My friend likes to play the other way and unlock his req mods first and take on a weak lich.

After realizing this we swapped and starting going after my Lich.  Out of my 5 previous Liches it is Rare for me to need my 3rd murmur to figure out my final mod/sequence for my Lich.  But with my friend, even with a maxed out Lich, he would just never show and we ended up having to farm the 3rd murmur.  And im pretty sure it feeds into this next observation....  After we took care of my Lich it was time to go after his.....

All my friend had to do was figure out his sequence because he was maxed out murmurs.   So all we needed was Lich fights but his Lich would never show up.... now when we were doing my Lich my friend was blood thirsty and went after all the thralls.   When we go to his Lich his blood lust went non existant lol and he just went after objectives was happy to do node after node... or wait in a single node forever even though nothing was happening....  but I was killing all the thralls... so it got me to thinking... 

I started marking all the downed thralls and making my friend spike them and what do you know his Lich started showing up...

-So im not sure exactly how the aggression system works.   But it looks like your Lich's aggression only goes up or has a chance to spawn if YOU are the one doing thrall spiking.  If this is true then it needs to be changed.   If you are in a Lich's sphere of infuence then ANYONE who spikes a thrall should build aggression in THAT Lich and or trigger it to spawn.   

--------------------------------

So most people will just run with randoms and this will never be an issue because they are only clicking on lich missions where their lich is active.   But if you have 2 players helping each other or you have a friend who doesnt even have a lich helping you then there can be problems...   The first problem I talked about I just bring up for thought, not sure DE would want to let people abuse it.  And on the other hand some players may WANT to abuse it.  

The second problem though I dont see any benefit to leaving it as is.   Its kinda broken and needs fixed.  It actually makes things harder when your being helped by a no Lich person or a person with a lich who isnt active in the nodes your playing.   

Edited November 27, 2019 by (PS4)AbBaNdOn_

[(XBOX)DarknessZeref]

LOVE the Kuva Ogris, make BIG BOOM! Love the Kuva Kohm, not gonna lie though everyone is asking the SAME question about that...

1) who thought it would be a good idea to buff Kohm and
2) why buff it just to nerf it, in other words- are you gonna nerf it? Or any of the kuva weapons for that matter. Don't wanna get attached or anything. 

The Ice lichs are particularly DEADLY, I love the amount of challenge they bring at level 5. My last radiation one even killed my Mesa when I had the killing combo waiting for it- that's a mission failure players at my level rarely see. 

One thing I'd love to see:
Less randomness with the lichs. Not wiping of RNG, necessarily but there's one too many layers at one specific point. Your randomly generated lich comes with a random weapon. Your control lies in the progenitor weapon bonus, some argue that we should receive weapons in some "unknown to us" order. Whether that be based on your story decisions, Nora night or some other methodology- you may consider that. 

I, however believe the "straw breaking the camel's back" in the context of murmur farming and the entire idea of the lich is that you don't know the final order of the parazon mods. That final uncertainty won't allow someone to efficiently kill kuva lichs for one reason or another. It essentially guarantees they'll level up as you hopelessly try to stop it from dominating the galaxy (Thinking of Empyrean upgrades). By giving us the "You can't kill me without the password" system, I just want the password- plain and simple. Even if it was simply the order which the mods become unveiled that is the order and they still float around, confusing those who weren't paying attention if they don't jump right on it.

Since even that is random at the moment, it's just a tedious hassle dealing with them and in the long run, they'll be a devastating assassin that you cannot hope to conquer, stealing your rewards at critical moments that you have no hope of gaining an advantage over, other than your hand at luck- I did kill one lich with my first guess. But luck is not challenging. Luck is gimicky. 

Thanks for the update on Xbox One, kinda peeved it's not updated but I appreciate the opportunity to experience this awesomeness. Ya'll are great

[Mediloric]

It's been a bit of time since I posted my feedback so heres a follow up. 

The Lich system is still pretty fun, a little bit too heavy on the grind maybe but I think it's understandable and for the most part, reasonable with a bit of planning which honestly I prefer/like but it's not for everyone. The changes so far have for sure been for the better, but I do agree with a common series of posts i'm seeing about murmur sharing on Lich stab being brought back. it made the grind more reasonable, and employed Co-op play more. Right now groups of 2 seems to be the best way of Murmur farming. (least to me)

Though on the other hand I can see why it's likely not going to be reinstated, it really did clear a lot of murmur progress quickly which in turn allowed people to kill/convert Liches quickly. So bit of gating and spreading out  was understandable to me, least we burn through it too fast but that's just my two cents of that, personally I'm fine with the er... "stab-guessing-murmur-gate" we have right now but other peoples ideas/feedback for it for sure are valid. 

I do kinda hope we get more types of weapons for the Kuva Lich, would be great to see different takes on various underused Grineer weapons with a different take on their mechanics. Weapons like the Ack & Brunt, or the Argonak, I never see those weapons much despite being fairly cool. I do love some of the new weapons for the Lich, the melee weapon is pretty fun and feels great to use, the Grenade launcher looks and handles great. feels powerful and the sound work is top notch! Great work on that! 

Now onto the slightly rougher bit, The Kill / Convert problem. 

As of right now, killing and converting Liches don't really feel that rewarding, sure the Lich is out of the way till you get another but it  feels like you get very little in return.

 Killing only grants the weapon and nothing else, no Kuva (which would be great if killing gave a decent amount of Kuva for the kill and linking it to power level for a stronger reward, might give intensive to make your lich stronger.), No additional resources or special rewards, just the weapon. Which I gotta say... is a bit of a slap in the face with all the work that goes in on the lich, sure the fights can be fun and chaotic (which I prefer) but it doesn't feel like I'm getting a good reward especially if I already have  the weapon and/or it's weaker to what I have right now.  What I'm saying for killing, the weapon isn't enough to justify the grind for it there needs to be more. a decent amount of Kuva would be a good answer and maybe something else? 

Converting is another matter completely, right now Converts only appear if you are in bleedout or close to bleedout, nothing else. There doesn't seem to be any other triggers for Liches coming to help you and that's a real shame! It was one of the features I was really excited about and honestly, it's a bit of a let down.

As I said in my previous feedback: the whole mysterious stranger idea behind converting is pretty cool but it's not enough especially since they don't revive you from bleedout (which would be a bit neat) and have about 2 minutes of duration which really is far too little.. it's not really enough to justify the converting compared to killing. 

There needs to be a bit more to it, the mysterious stranger idea is good but maybe flesh it out more especially if you want to keep the duration, have them use powers (since they don't when converted least I never had it) maybe draw aggro, revive you, just something to feel like those two minutes isn't for nothing aha. cause it's a real shame that after all that work from both dev and player, 2 minutes is all you get for converting.  

Maybe this will get expanded with railjacks release (which is what people are hoping for it seems) 

Overall I have to say despite my few misgiving here and there, the Lich system is great! a fantastic addition and I hope more comes to it! 

[(PSN)BloodyHell]

Originally left this as a comment on reddit but though it might be useful here as well. This is in regards to the whole "getting killed by your Kuva Lich over and over again" issue. I think this would be a fairly good compromise. 

If you fail the first requiem, you still get killed by your Lich exactly as it is now (One suggestion: your Lich starts out with no Tenno helmet on their model when they're birthed, but will gain a new helmet on their shoulder based on whichever Tenno they melee kill). If you pass the first requiem but fail the second, you no longer die but take 75-90% health damage and your Lich retreats. Pass the first two but fail the third, you take no damage and they retreat. And passing all three ends like it currently does. Now there's a logical progression to overcoming your Lich without the feeling of undue failure when you have some of the appropriate requiems. It'd make sense for a Lich to wreck your S#&$ if you have none of the requiem mods right, but now you get a sense of overcoming your nemesis as you figure out the order, and even get to feel extra cool if you managed to guess one or two of the mods correctly the first time. Maybe DE could even add in special animations or Kuva Lich lines for these stages.

[GruntBlender]

Is this thread even being read? If so, I made some suggestions a while back that are still apt.

tl;dr:

Lich hunt is separate from the game, feels isolated. We're hunting liches, not them hunting us, they don't feel like an enemy, but rather like prey. Solutions:

• Lich spawn more like the stalker in all missions
• Thralls spawn in low amounts in all missions, like Zealoids/Fugitives
• Lich assassination mission on Sargas Ruk tileset
• High level thrall missions reward whispers on completion, maybe more whispers required to compensate.

I get that the relic and requiem mechanic is sacrosanct as per the last dev stream, that's fine, I'm just after better integration of the lich into the overall game. I assume some of these things will be part of Empyrean, or at least there will be more integration in some way, these are things to consider for that upcoming update.

Regarding lich being a challenge, that can be increased with an adaptation mechanic. Every time the lich is made to go away, the element that did the most damage will become an immunity and previous immunity becomes a resistance, with previous resistance disappearing.

 

Positive feedback: Love the dismissing lich mechanic with 3 takedowns. That was really appreciated. Also actually fighting the lich is fun, and having high level grineer missions on non-grineer tilesets is refreshing.

[Kalvorax]

Lich armor scaling.....TONE IT DOWN PLEASE!!!!!

Its so sad that a RESCUE TARGET is the only way to do ANY decent damage to it 😐 it was doing CHUNKS of damage (visible chunks no less) compared to me, WITH THE SAME WEAPON NO LESS



im pissed off due to horrid rng and the fact ive been at a level 5 FOR OVER 2 WEEKS NOW (or however long its been live for) and he has nearly every planet in the system now and im always losing resources (not too much of an issues) but the "time to pay the idiot tax" pisses me off to no end

[Duality52]

This may have been said numerous times, but the main issue I find is how contradicting the fight is in regards to their lore. To elaborate:

• They talk about dying over and over only to come back, yet to died a grand total of once or twice (Vanquished) only if you have the right Requiem mods.
• Them killing us for using the wrong Requiem mods makes no sense either, as even the wrong mods should disrupt the Kuva in the Lich or perform a "false death". That means they died, but they revived themselves to level up and harass or threaten us even more. You might as well throw a Lich at the Sentients to win the New War.

Upon checking back at the "counter" or "power-reversal" animations where a Tenno manages to free themselves from the Lich's instant kill means that the system is incomplete, and I sincerely hope the system doesn't get ditched in favor of Empyrean.

[Kaadu]

I got a lighting lich (was level 5) as my ally, but if they come to help. They don't use any powers.
Considering they only come for a limited time, I thought they would be more impactful.

[AvatarShine]

1.1 On Killing screen Lich (A+D) pressing "T" or have opened chat locks keys  "A/D" so you cant finish

  1.2 On Killing screen Lich (A+D) after pressing "A/D" and then "T" locks all keyboard keys in chat

 

2.1 Stab lich or smth (don’t remember,can’t reproduce ). can give archgun rivens(imperator vandal) shooting without pressing mouse-1

 2.2 At normal in-opertor +"hold mouse-1" and back to "warframe with archgun" dont give seamless for convenience shooting

Edited November 28, 2019 by AvatarShine

[(PSN)KresTias]

Im not a PC player, but.

Dear, DE: 

• Whenever you add something important like lich trade or no duplicates in a row, make sure it goes live on console asap.
• Add some sort of beacon or something to force lich to spawn, let say you converted lich and you get 1 consumable beacon bp. Im sick of waiting lich to spawn, sometimes it takes 40-50 mins of mission grind just to finally kill him. Right now im waiting 24 or 25th (almost lost my sanity lol) lich to spawn and get another duplicate weapon tht i dont need and after 8 attempts i KNOW the sequence.
• Add any sort of promt before mission if player start mission with wrong sequence tht he already tried. Like i said i already lost my sanity and couple times i forgot change mods and wasted lich spawn. Yes i know its my problem, but i cant hunt lich for 2-3 hours and stay 100% focused all the time. I had enough punishment from rngsus with karaks and quartakks dupe combos.

Thanks

PS, And for the love of god nerf lich's hallowed ground, grab damage (900-1000 damage? for real? do you guys ever tested it? Like few warframes can survive this) and aoe damage from some of his weapons like kraken and ayanga. 

Edited November 28, 2019 by (PS4)KresTias

[Mos-Eisley]

Lich Feed Back - 

I have not been grinding away on the Liches as many have. I've been casually acquiring a Lich, while making sure I always have enough of the parazon mods stocked up, while playing other content as well. 

My main complaint is the weapons, and the RNG nature of which they are acquired. My first two weapons were the Kraken, this was prior to the patch to ensure you would not receive the same weapon twice in a row. After that I picked up the Brakk, Drakgoon, Ogris, Ayanga, then another Ogris, then a Karak and then yet another Kraken. Out of 9 weapons total. 4 are duplicates. Yes I know RNG, but coupled with the fact that the weapons are re-skins of weapons I've already ranked, and dumped because I didn't like any of them, it REALLY is not encouraging me to attempt yet another. 

[Ikusias]

No change has been made to the fact that murmur grind is stupidly boring and utterly segregated from actual gameplay...

On wrong parazon mods combo our frame gets broken in two for no freaking reason  - we have defeated the lich and are finishing it, this reversal is b..it! Losing against RNG is stupid.

No changes to mitigate RNG^4 on weapon acquisition with better elemental bonus benefitting from absorbing worse versions.

No actual end prize beside gun/ephemera not compensating enough for the stupid grind.

Stupid grind= needlessly repetitive and isolated grind for thralls when we could do it in many more ways... hek spy valuts contain sensitive data, why not also the "magic kill code" for our lich of the week?

Kuva liches = Wolf of Saturn 2.0 = trash = immune 99% of our arsenal = [CENSORED]

[_LovelySuckerEver_Reboot]

Ephemera too hard to see in mission
and we need tesxt % bonus element on kuva weapon at asernal

Edited November 28, 2019 by _LovelySuckerEver_Reboot

[Silvertap]

Kuva drops are abismal, would be nice to convert converted lich into a bulk of kuva...

[notlamprey]

10 hours ago, Kaadu said:

I got a lighting lich (was level 5) as my ally, but if they come to help. They don't use any powers.
Considering they only come for a limited time, I thought they would be more impactful.

This is a great point that completely passed me by. Why don't the Liches make any fireworks when they come to help?

They certainly aren't shy about spraying radiation and viral procs all over the map before we convert them. Why are they so comparatively unhelpful as allies?

I completely derped and bought a Lich without remembering that, once converted, I would have no way to dispose of her permanently because she can't be traded again. Now I'm stuck with this occasional helper who doesn't really do anything except remind me I wasted some platinum by being forgetful.

 

 

[(PSN)Lana__Drahrepus]

I have gotten the kuva seer 3 times in a row.

[Chauvesouris]

Some degrindification would be nice.

• Originally requiem murmurs to unveil a mod was 50/50/50 (total : 150), then it was made 30/30/70 (130), now its 36/60/84 (180), something like 30/40/60 (130) would be more reasonable.
• Make murmurs reveal mods in the correct order would be nice too; it would eliminate the pointless death that occurs when you know 2 mods but niether goes in first then when you know the final mod (that happends to be your 1st in sequence) you still die because your 2 others were inverted.
• Finnaly, when killing a larving to create a lich, after the missison 2 lich choices could be offered (both excluding kuva weapon of last lich); it would reducee to amount of grind and frustration for getting a particular weapon

 

[Firetempest]

Lich territory should be handled differently. Doubling the potential mission nodes all over the star map is just spreading everyone thin. It hasn't been so bad at launch to find random people but once the initial flux of farming dies down. Its going to be a solo grind cleaning up your planet finding murmurs and finding groups for specific planets and specific nodes and later specific factions in chat is just going to drag. That's not going to be fun in the future when everyone has infested, corpus, grineer, sentient territory bosses all over the map.

Just add a temporary node on the planet that symbolizes the Immortal's control. The node operates like a Invasion node. Mission type changes randomly. Instead of 3 missions to finish it. Its as many missions as there would be controlled nodes. Every mission completed shrinks the 'blood' covering the planet on the map.

Now everyone is queuing up on a single node per planet. Future proof it.

Edited November 29, 2019 by Firetempest