This Man Made His Own Game To Show How The Kuva Liches Should Be Improved

[Mikaer88]

You know there's something wrong when a player made his own game out of disappointment.

[Sitchrea]

Just now, Mikaer88 said:

You know there's something wrong when a player made his own game out of disappointment.

This says so much about how little there is to the Kuva Lich system. It's literally just "Fill 3 bars and poke your Lich."

The system is not interesting at all in its current state. It NEEDS the kind of improvement this guy has suggested.

[(XBOX)YoungGunn82]

10 hours ago, Sitchrea said:

Look at this fan-made game and tell me this wouldn't be an incredible system. I would play this far, FAR more willingly than the simple murmer-farm Lich system we have now.

 

 

Edit: For clarity, here is a link to the game: https://kaian-a-coel.github.io/Kuva-Lich-Rework/

 

 

 

This @[DE]Rebecca @[DE]Steve

[IzzyTH-I51]

3 minutes ago, (XB1)SixGunLove said:

This @[DE]Rebecca @[DE]Steve

Was literally thinking of making the same comment. Hope they see it and consider or are already considering similar adjustments with the launch of empyrean.

Cause honestly what we got wasn't what I expected either.

[Sitchrea]

3 minutes ago, IzzyTH-I51 said:

Was literally thinking of making the same comment. Hope they see it and consider or are already considering similar adjustments with the launch of empyrean.

Cause honestly what we got wasn't what I expected either.

It's not what any of us expected because it bears little resemblance to the Tennocon gameplay trailer.

[0_The_F00l]

I love this, wish DE implemented something like this instead of what is the current delay mechanic. 

[(XBOX)Onyx Schnee]

oh i liked that link. bookmarked and will play it again from time to time.

[DarthIronclad]

Truly amazing,though only allowing brute forcing to kill the lihc,but is much easier and faster to get the kuva weapons

[0kills]

MESSAGES:

You encountered Obuk Tamobeko!
...and won!
You did not have three requiem mods equipped, no combination was tested.
Obuk Tamobeko stole the following:
397 credits
56 common resources
4 rare resources
1 relics

You gained: 17 intel
--------

Obuk Tamobeko stole the following:
315 credits
75 common resources
2 rare resources

You gained: 24 intel
--------

Obuk Tamobeko stole the following:
460 credits
117 common resources

You gained: 25 intel
--------

Obuk Tamobeko stole the following:
389 credits
94 common resources
5 rare resources
1 mods

You gained: 12 intel
--------

Obuk Tamobeko has appeared! Gifted the cursed immortality of Kuva by the Grineer Queens, he landed on Appolodorus and sent his thralls to establish his influence over Mercury.
--------

-> lmfao, I ran the same map where he's in 3 times and killed him apparently....

 

[Skaleek]

4 minutes ago, 0kills said:

killed him apparently

Your name is right, your comment is wrong. It just says you won. Nowhere does it say you killed him and even then, without your parazon with the right requiem sequence he comes back to life and spreads from a new node.

Edited December 6, 2019 by Skaleek

[Lokidus_Prime]

I would love to see the lich system get changes like this - it would actually feel like a lich then.  It would also feel more like an actual nemesis, where you are messing with them just as much as they are with you, and it would be more rewarding than the current system for sure.

[TheGrimCorsair]

This sounds like even more busy work and fiddliness with little in the way of anything I'd ever want.

That said, it does do one thing I appreciate and that is not silo Liches off from the rest of the game.

[(XBOX)Demon Intellect]

12 hours ago, Skaleek said:

Pretty cool. Nice job to the author. You put your money where your mouth is. You developed a better system by yourself than DE did with a full team of developers. Bravo. Most people will say they could, but he actually did it, so, bravo.

The fact you can keep getting new weapons from the Lich is a good idea, imo.

I mean this was a free concept and DE needs to make money, so it has to #*!% the player somehow. It's the name of the game with free games, sadly.

[Laveillon]

I might have been a bit lucky, but after some time invested into this minigame, i am most certain that the way it works is what most of us (probably) want. Way more engaging, way less Lich, way more thing to make the Liches unique.

I agree, it might be a lot of effort to rework the current system, others may rage and be displeased, but on the long run, this system provides a much a more engaging and replayable content.

[Shy0]

thanks for posting this here. so much more depth to this nemesis system than what DE vomited up on us. not much of a "nemesis" if we can go through several of them in a single day with the current implementation in-game like some low-effort miniboss.

having an enemy that grows more powerful with time and gives better rewards the stronger they are is the better way to go. we even have a choice in how we want to play: if we want stronger weapons and enemies, we can just let the lich grow stronger over a few days and take our time fully killing it while getting better +%bonus weapons everyday. if we want to kill them quickly for ephemeras or to get stolen drops back, we can be more aggresive in gathering intel and getting the requiem sequence faster with the clues we get each encounter.

got a 3rd kuva kraken with 25% bonus on my 7th lich in-game. complete waste of time doing liches as they are now so i'm just logging in for dailies and logging back out. relying so much on multiple layers of rng to artificially create endgame "replayability" is going to backfire on DE. veteran players who already have most stuff that they need in-game will just burn out, get demoralised and stop playing between updates.

[Mr.Fluffins]

Honestly I would love the nemesis system to get extra attention from the developers, since right now it is unfortunately just a well-dressed weapon grind when it can be so much more (and has clearly a ton of work behind it). Made some small suggestions regarding the system in feedback forums myself (link: https://forums.warframe.com/topic/1143253-liches-should-be-more-involved-in-the-overall-game/?tab=comments#comment-11170398

Big kudos to the creator of this mini-game, I think some of his ideas are rather cool (and a great practical illustration).

 

Edited December 6, 2019 by Mr.Fluffins

[ILOHARTA]

[ant99999]

Neat system overall. I ran it till the final lich kill, took me 6 days, plus spawned a 'kuva guardians bodyguards' asset.

The system has undeniably more variety than the current one, and manages to have liches last a couple days which fits more into 'nemesis' principle.

However, some critic is required.

First detail I extremely dislike is the remaining weapon element choosing system. While it is fine in the current state where you generate a lich on a level 20 mission to have it depend on the frame, for a system where generation is done upon killing the lich this is a bad idea. A player may not have a high level-viable warframes to generate the desired element, and I can only imagine how many there will be Saryns on the Last Stand mission trying to get the toxin elemental. Instead the damage should be generated depending on the weapon a lich was killed with, or by manipulating the mission parameters using Intel resource.

The second point is lich progression. Even now a player may not fully understand what they are stepping into until their lich is at level 4 controlling quarter of the starchart and they have no idea how to kill them using their not so great yet arsenal. In the proposed system it all seems to be even worse. Lich progresses linearly with every mission done and with new mod guessing principle - who knows for how long. I think a lot of players will have the situation going spectacularly out of control. To counter this I suggest adding some way of delaying lich's respawn (such as paying some fee in Kuva). This fits in the principle of nemesis getting on your nerves each day but also gives the player an opportunity to better prepare for the next time lich spawns intead of having half of the starchart beating their a**.

Thirdly, technical side. Everything considered this system will inevitably require more voice acting for liches and new animations. I see this as the main obstacle for the devs.

[Mikaer88]

1 hour ago, Marksuckerberg said:

Evacuate the city, engage all defenses, and get this man a job at DE

Here's your upvote T'Challa.

[pook-pook]

Fantastic spin on the lich system, much closer to what I thought it was going to be!

[Jarriaga]

Nothing like proof of concept in order to highlight possible improvements.

[SECURATYYY]

The wolf was a better lich, just without rewards.

[Kaotyke]

FFS, I was writting a detailed review here and then I have to click the mouse thumb by accident and lose everything. So here's the abridged version:

The only thing I've see of this is that its nice on paper.

You have to run the missions to gather INTEL, but there doesnt SEEM to have a limitation AKA you can run Captures over and over for quick INTEL, that has to be adressed.

Using Intel to crack down the weapon Interlock and use it is good-ish if you dont want to kill BOPP BIPP permanently, it is a good way for you to keep your favored Lich around.

Use Intel to get some resources back.

You can find the Lich Randomly like we have, but we also can ambush them to Parazon them (Doesnt SEEM like we have revives if we lose to them).

-----------

We would have to spam missions for INTEL, then use that Intel get the Lich Influence out of the Node OR Purge the whole planet in a single strike by using even more INTEL depeding on how many nodes they have controlled. This makes the mission no different from what we have: spam a Capture and then do the missions using Intel to get rid of Influence. No different from going to a Node and killing Thralls on the way and purging the Influence on the node.

Each Lich encounter lowers the INTEL needed to steal their weapon (No mention of by how much its lowered per encounter) and it heffty sum of INTEL, AGAIN: no prevention of spamming Capture missions to get easy INTEL that I could find.

What I'm seeing its the same of what we've seen on a Devstream, DE presented the idea of how we deal with the Liches and only saw the problems after we got them in our hands.

The person who made this simulation has some good ideas, i particulary liked the fact that the Lich can be more permanent and we can take the fight to them. But the guy's idea is nice only on pepar, as I said before.

[Viperidae767]

This proof of concept is far more engaging than what we currently have.

It keeps basically all of the assets DE included for the current Lich system.

And turns the revolving door Liches we currently have into something that engages us longer while keeping the reward structure intact.

I personally would love to have the current Lich system expanded into something like this.

Pretty please?

Edited December 6, 2019 by Viperidae767

[Sitchrea]

6 hours ago, Laveillon said:

I might have been a bit lucky, but after some time invested into this minigame, i am most certain that the way it works is what most of us (probably) want. Way more engaging, way less Lich, way more thing to make the Liches unique.

I agree, it might be a lot of effort to rework the current system, others may rage and be displeased, but on the long run, this system provides a much a more engaging and replayable content.

I don't think it'd be that much work, as most of the assets are already in the game. This would all be coding architecture instead of art assets.