Scarlet Spear feedback

[RtR-Snoo]

A couple of my friends and I are trying to go into one of these missions as a 3 person squad.  It seems that any instance we try to get into has a full player capacity, and we're getting shunted to whatever instance has space.  I wouldn't mind this, except we keep getting dropped into are at 100/100 Murex driven away.  As we can't seem to go into missions from here, I have to ask; why are we being dropped into instances that we can't do anything in?  Shouldn't these instances be locked to prevent players from entering?  Is this something to prevent too many instances from being open at once?

Has anyone else been having this issue too?

[KnossosTNC]

13 hours ago, ixidron92 said:

Honestly, I can't be the only one noticing this pattern. It's nothing new, though. A lot of companies use this cheap trick to pretend they listen to feedback when in reality it's been planned from the very beginning.

The current scarlet spear is a good example. Let's break down some numbers:

You get 125 points for driving away the first Murex. 240 for the second (total: 325). 375 for the 3rd (total 700). 510 for the 4th (1310 total). 645 for the 5th (total 1955) and 765 for the 6th and subsequent ones (2720 total). That would be, being generous and insanely quick, say 30 minutes of gameplay minimum, with a perfect squad. 

Now, some more numbers: 

• Lacera: 20000 points
• Basmu: 15000 points
• Forma/Captura/Decorations: 5000 each (20k total)
• Common arcanes: 1k each, 21k for a max level one (126k total)
• Uncommon arcanes: 1.5k each, 31.5k for a max level one (409500 total)

Full total: 590500 points.

An now, math:

Assuming, being generous, each Murex run takes 5 minutes on average (including re-stocking, the time it takes you to move from place to place, etc)

Also, please, remember that the numbers can't be real, since it's impossible to play 24/7 at peak, not to mention, it resets every 100 Murex.

• If you do one 1 Murex and repeat: 4724 missions and 394 hours of continuous gameplay to get everything
• If you 2 Murex and repeat: 1817 missions. 303 hours
• 3 Murex and repeat: 844 missions. 221 hours.
• 4 Murex: 450 missions. 150 hours.
• 5 Murex: 303 missions. 126 hours.
• 6 Murex: 218 missions. 109 hours. 
• 6 Murex and stay: 777 Murex driven away. 65 hours.

Now, consider the insane grind. Obviously, they either didn't test it, didn't use basic math, or threw in random numbers. In that case, it's just bad game developing. OR they knew full well it was insane, that it would take a few hours for player to realize this and complain and they had already planned beforehand to reduce those numbers (which I'm guessing will happen this week or early next week). In which case, it's just a dirty trick to pretend they listen to the community. They've actually done that with the Lich grind and the Reactor grind. Release insane numbers. Tone them down later. Claim you listen to the community for doing so. 

  I feel like that picture of James Franco, with a noose around his neck, quipping; "First time?"

Edited March 25, 2020 by KnossosTNC
Thread merge ripped out context. Bah.

[3rdpig]

It's nuts and they know it. IMO it's targeted towards people that will grind 12 hours a day, 7 days a week so they're not moaning about having it all after a week with nothing left to do.  I suspect it's going to either get modified, extended or it will be back twice a year.

[EchoesOfRain]

So far I have yet to join someone else's Railjack. I managed to have a single person join my Railjack once, grogged through a solo Railjack Scarlet Spear mission (which was obnoxious af), and haven't had anyone join me any other times so I just exited the mission

[Kaiga]

The comically low earnings of 90-110 credits every 10-15 minutes means that just to afford the new weapons (35,000 total) plus max rank of even these common arcane arcanes released at the start (the popular ones that were nerfed into inferior stats at triple the max rank like grace and energize are almost certainly going to be exponentially more expensive) means days solid of gameplay, and to afford everything  would be an absolutely astronomical time sink. 

This is by far the worst grind of any event, ever, and it's only on for four weeks! How do you expect the average player to no-life that?

Edited March 24, 2020 by Kaiga

[(NSW)Greybones]

2 minutes ago, 3rdpig said:

It's nuts and they know it. IMO it's targeted towards people that will grind 12 hours a day, 7 days a week so they're not moaning about having it all after a week with nothing left to do.  I suspect it's going to either get modified, extended or it will be back twice a year.

Huh. This sentiment does gel with some things I’ve seen. The loud players doing constant playing looking for more to do with themselves now that they’ve won Warframe.

I thought at first the grind sounded nuts as well (haven’t tried it yet), but this is giving me food for thought. Thanks.

[SordidDreams]

3 minutes ago, Kaiga said:

earnings of 90-110 credits every 10-15 minutes

How are you guys managing to get that little? I ran one ground assault mission and I got 825 after about 20 minutes (10 of those sentient things whose name I can't remember). Now I still consider that way too low, but your numbers are on a whole another level.

Edited March 24, 2020 by SordidDreams

[Gildarts_bb]

2 minutes ago, Nssheepster said:

I'm not touching the rest of it, it's self defeating IMO. But this? OFC there is complaining! There are players who LIKE Endless, and players who DON'T. Forcing Endless is ALSO going to anger people. Not rewarding Endless will ALSO anger people. You need a BALANCE, and this does NOT have that.

how do you add balance to please everyone? add operation missions for each mission type on the solar map? thats about the only way to make EVERYONE happy different operations have different themes and types some are repetitive short missions some are endless some are entirely new that add a new mission type to the game. the effort to code and create every operation as a multi-mission monster to make everyone happy would be enormous so they make different ones at different times. does everyone like them all? of course not i sure don't, but i don't come on the forums a complain that i don't like this operation or this event cause the mission is a series of repetitive capture missions (or whatever just a random example) because i know DE is doing their best to provide a variety without breaking their resources.   

[Katinka]

Or maybe they start with conservative numbers while the player base does the first few days of testing and then they'll tweak gameplay, fix bugs and adjust rewards/costs based not just on feedback but also their own metrics.  This way they can make sure exploits have less of an effect.  Same reason why the rarer Arcanes aren't available yet.

[Gildarts_bb]

10 minutes ago, grindbert said:

given the prices the trash ones are sold at i wonder how many hours we'll have to waste for the good ones. no thanks, i'll stick to eidolons.

from what i understand you get more credits and there is a bonus of some sort though it is still unclear how it works. IMO your giving up before even really trying 

 

[TheGuyver]

My clanmates and I couldn't even get any new enemy spawns in the RJ mission, we were at a loss. 

[Marvash56]

Railjack is the one that give you the most 2000 points if you finish the 5 Murex ans that's approximatively 25-30min if you're fast enough 

[Kaiga]

4 minutes ago, SordidDreams said:

How are you guys managing to get that little? I ran one ground assault mission and I got 825 after about 20 minutes (10 of those sentient things whose name I can't remember). Now I still consider that way too low, but your numbers are on a whole another level.

I got around that much in about 45 minutes, what must you be doing differently?

[Prexades]

When squad linking was shown for the first time during Tennocon a team would fight on the ground while the other battled in space. But right now there is barely any space combat going on in the space part of the update. It is just a short taxi ride from one sentient ship to the next with maybe a few boarder and 2 or 3 sentient fighters. The main part is a defense mission inside each of the sentient ships.

I was hoping for some epic battles against sentient ships, not another defense/ mobile defense on the anomaly map.

 

Edited March 24, 2020 by Prexades

[Nssheepster]

5 minutes ago, Gildarts_bb said:

how do you add balance to please everyone?

In context of the event? You make shorter missions more rewarding than they currently are, because currently the gap is gigantic. Aside from rewards overall being too low, the gap between the two is TOO large. That's just a balance tweak back and forth until it feels right. You need SOME gap, or Endless missions aren't sufficiently rewarding, but TOO MUCH gap, and then it feels like you're forcing Endless. It's a balancing act, that's the kind of thing that takes time. In this event though, balance for BOTH is bad, so that needs to be fixed, and THEN they can work on balancing that gap.

 

As far as breaking their resources.... I'm a remind everyone that Digital Extremes has 'over 200' people, and they're working on an already made game. The foundation is already there, the most time consuming part is long since done. People have MADE games all alone, without any of the benefits DE has. This is not 'Small indie company doing their best.' This is medium size company using what they have really poorly. There's a hefty difference.

[Oreades]

Remember when they said something along to the effect of don't worry our intent isn't to add a ton of grind to Arcanes. lol

[Mephane]

2 minutes ago, Marvash56 said:

Railjack is the one that give you the most 2000 points if you finish the 5 Murex ans that's approximatively 25-30min if you're fast enough 

Railjack matchmaking seems to be either broken or disabled for this one, so unless you have a premade group you get to solo that whole thing, which considerably slows things down.

[Banatine]

I will also chime in that I feel the reward for ground missions feels far too low.

Maybe if the matchmaking weren't completely broken right now, I wouldn't be forced to do the mission solo. so it took me about 25 minutes to kill 6 condrix to earn... 315 points.

Based on my napkin math, at that rate it would take me... about 30 solid hours of running this ground mission just to get the 2 weapons, assuming I wanted nothing else.

what makes it more insulting is that the RJ teams seem to earn far more rewards. Both sides of the ewvent are equally important for success, so why are the ground teams forced to just accept the short end of the stick?

[TheGrimCorsair]

5 minutes ago, Katinka said:

Or maybe they start with conservative numbers while the player base does the first few days of testing and then they'll tweak gameplay, fix bugs and adjust rewards/costs based not just on feedback but also their own metrics.  This way they can make sure exploits have less of an effect.  Same reason why the rarer Arcanes aren't available yet.

Ding! Ding! Ding! We have a winner!

[Crusher4881]

They should probably add sentients that go out and attempt to hack your link satellite to disable it and end the mission, forcing you to defend against that. But, to compensate, they should reduce the amount of op-links required for maximum kill speed to 2. Right now when the team reaches the area, all 4 people go into the ship just to drop oplinks, and then 1 or 2 might recall out to defend the railjack.

[Nssheepster]

8 minutes ago, Gildarts_bb said:

from what i understand you get more credits and there is a bonus of some sort though it is still unclear how it works. IMO your giving up before even really trying 

 

Even with the bonus people keep hyping up.... Eidolons are still more time efficient. Even if I could, for sure, get 20K credits per wave.... It takes how long to end those waves? Whereas a Tridolon cap gets me how many arcanes, how fast? The math is so basic you don't even have to actually do it to see the result.

[Oreades]

7 minutes ago, SordidDreams said:

How are you guys managing to get that little? I ran one ground assault mission and I got 825 after about 20 minutes (10 of those sentient things whose name I can't remember). Now I still consider that way too low, but your numbers are on a whole another level.

There seems to be some serious strangeness with how it hands out it's points, my firends and I played for hours exclusively together and we have three totally different scarlet credit scores. 

[(NSW)Greybones]

7 minutes ago, Katinka said:

Or maybe they start with conservative numbers while the player base does the first few days of testing and then they'll tweak gameplay, fix bugs and adjust rewards/costs based not just on feedback but also their own metrics.  This way they can make sure exploits have less of an effect.  Same reason why the rarer Arcanes aren't available yet.

You’ve given me food for thought as well with this statement. I’m getting quite a meal. +1 like to you

edit: Thinking on it, I think this makes more sense

Edited March 24, 2020 by (NSW)Greybones

[--END--Rikutatis]

You can get 2k more or less on a full 17 condrex ground mission as well, around 30 min depending on how fast your team is. I'm sure people could speed run that to be much faster, but it'd require a meta setup. 

[Drachnyn]

Unfortunately when most relays reach 100 murex killed you cant even grind anymore. Which might be the stupidest thing to ever be concieved in this game.