Discussion and Feedback on Hard Mode shown on devstream

[LupoDWolf]

1 minute ago, Voltage said:

Why not? Good rewards from hard rewards is perfectly acceptable. The problem you are thinking of boils down to DE not sticking to their guns. Missions can absolutely be hard and reward Umbral Forma in a rare, but consistent manner.

In order for a players time to be respected, DE has to actually design concrete drop chances and barely change them if at all. However, in the last few years, I feel like that is a hopeless request.

I really don't think it will be healthy if it gives us more power ( someone was literally asking for that) Fashion would be way more acceptable. Just a table full of new fashion things, like sekharas, maybe even new atachments taht work like seasonal ones

[anarchy753]

1 minute ago, LupoDWolf said:

I really don't think it will be healthy if it gives us more power ( someone was literally asking for that) Fashion would be way more acceptable. Just a table full of new fashion things, like sekharas, maybe even new atachments taht work like seasonal ones

You mean the way arbitrations/ESO had ephemerae and now they're the most complained about part of their drop table because they're one and done junk instead of evergreen rewards people actually want?

[LupoDWolf]

Just now, anarchy753 said:

You mean the way arbitrations/ESO had ephemerae and now they're the most complained about part of their drop table because they're one and done junk instead of evergreen rewards people actually want?

people complain about the 1% in a C rotation only, if it was, dunno, at least 5% if it is only on a rotation its not bad. 
also, just make then be tradeadle for ducat if get more than one of the same

[anarchy753]

Just now, LupoDWolf said:

people complain about the 1% in a C rotation only, if it was, dunno, at least 5% if it is only on a rotation its not bad. 
also, just make then be tradeadle for ducat if get more than one of the same

People complain about Seeding Step in arbitrations which is 5% because it takes the place of endo/statues which is the reason they're playing the mode in the first place. Ducats isn't much better than selling for credits.

If you fill a drop table with single-use items, the appeal for like 95% of the player base is gone after 1 week. Something as significant as 2 full replays of the star chart shouldn't only appeal to a tiny portion of people.

[TehBoozinCrew]

13 minutes ago, LupoDWolf said:

Fashion would be way more acceptable. Just a table full of new fashion things, like sekharas, maybe even new atachments taht work like seasonal ones

I don't think fashion alone is enough. Some players don't do fashion frame. Others would grind it up until it's a dead island with no more rewards. It should ideally give some type of everlasting reward benefit over existing missions. No matter what the rewards are, and no matter how many times a person runs it, they shouldn't be enticed to drop down in difficulty unless they can't do it optimally enough yet. 

Edited May 9, 2020 by TehBoozinCrew

[LupoDWolf]

1 minute ago, anarchy753 said:

People complain about Seeding Step in arbitrations which is 5% because it takes the place of endo/statues which is the reason they're playing the mode in the first place. Ducats isn't much better than selling for credits.

If you fill a drop table with single-use items, the appeal for like 95% of the player base is gone after 1 week. Something as significant as 2 full replays of the star chart shouldn't only appeal to a tiny portion of people.

 

Just now, TehBoozinCrew said:

I don't think fashion alone is enough. Some players don't do fashion frame. Others would grind it up until it's a dead island with no more rewards. It should ideally give some type of everlasting reward benefit over existing missions. No matter what the rewards are, and no matter how many times a person runs it, they shouldn't be enticed to drop down in difficulty unless they can't do it optimally enough yet. 

maybe something like a sekhara/ syandana/efemera/ something that gets upgraded if you get more copies

only evergreen its okay, never said that isn't, but giving more tools of power ( or niche ones) will end with people just going for that and forget
 

Edited May 9, 2020 by LupoDWolf

[(XBOX)l Saminator l]

Problem with higher resource yields, is that the chances are, most people that are quite a high mastery and have access to Ultra Hard mode won't really need resources to begin with other than a bit of polymer here to build more energy pads, and some Kuva to re-roll rivens. So other than resource, I do think we need a little more in terms of rewards other than higher resources. 

 

If hard and ultra hard mode works similarly to Arbitrations, in that a player can't be carried in unless they have access to it, then that alone will stomp out the problem of most players migrating from hydron/sanctuary Onslaught, to the hard and ultra hard missions, since they still need to put the work in to actually gain access to the nodes. 

A higher exp curve is expected anyway, look at Kuva lich missions, doing a high level Kuva lich defense will often level yiur gear up twice as fast as Hydron due to the Grineer being level 60-130 (depending on the Kuva Lich's level too), and this hasn't caused any exp farming meta shift. The community still mostly chills in Hydron. So I'm sure everything will be fine 🙂

Edited May 9, 2020 by (XB1)l Saminator l

[Vit0Corleone]

IMHO, the best reward you can give to players for being able to complete the star chart (or each planet?) in hard/ultra hard mode is some sort of cosmetic that says "I did it" and that people can wear ( like a Sygil, emblem, armor, whatnot ), specific to that achievement and cannot be acquired elsewhere.

I know this may come across as elitist show-off, but if we want something that is meaningful, and yet doesn't impact the game ( that is to say, doesn't put players that aren't interested in this at a disadvantage ), this would be a good way to go at it.

This may not be the right thread to ask, but out of curiosity, for players that aren't thinking about going for full hard/ultra star chart completion, is this something that would bother you?

As for mission specific rewards, my understanding of what they explained is that they would simply scale, which isn't bad, but could definitely be better tuned for stuff that experienced players care about.

I would personally prefer a token/store style of rewards, like we have in arbitrations etc. that would allow us to pick stuff from that store, same as we can do already in arbies.

 

[DrivaMain]

15 minutes ago, LupoDWolf said:

maybe something like a sekhara/ syandana/efemera/ something that gets upgraded if you get more copies

only evergreen its okay, never said that isn't, but giving more tools of power ( or niche ones) will end with people just going for that and forget
 

Like Murex Emblem? I can get behind, but don’t put on the reward drop table. It will dilute it thus reducing the probability of getting the reward you want. Maybe every rotation completion the emblem gets upgraded. The cosmetic should be rewarded on completion not rotation rewards.

[Kaotyke]

6 hours ago, XzWasPzX said:

casuals have their niche, its time for the vets to have its own, dont you? 

Do you see disagreeing?

[TehBoozinCrew]

27 minutes ago, LupoDWolf said:

maybe something like a sekhara/ syandana/efemera/ something that gets upgraded if you get more copies

only evergreen its okay, never said that isn't, but giving more tools of power ( or niche ones) will end with people just going for that and forget
 

Even that would presumably have a limit, and then...? Not to mention those who dont care about fashion frame.

And I certainly don't want people to get stronger because they are doing hard mode runs or anything, that suggestion can go right out the window as far as I am concerned.

 

I just see it as you do star chart missions in post game to get drops, rewards, relics, etc.  Make hard and ultra hard do that, but non-quantitatively better. By reducing the pool of rewards the players playing higher level content can be more specific about what kind of drops they are getting from the star chart. The people playing hard and ultra hard don't walk away with more rewards, but it would better respect players time by focusing on their desired rewards.

Edited May 9, 2020 by TehBoozinCrew

[JackHargreav]

In most games hard mode doesn't give you more. Hard mode is there for challenge and that's it.

I don't know why this should be any different in warframe.

[BDMblue]

If I did hard it would only be in relics and would let you open 2 and 3 at a time max. I would also increase the number of relics you need to 15(hard) for 2 and 20(ultra) for 3. The normal mission rewards would be the same.

Maybe some (10+) new mod drops from just regular guys and a New guns parts. These could have a low drop chance to the point we have 10 threads a day complaining about it rare.

this would help to drain are relic pile ups.

Edited May 9, 2020 by BDMblue

[TehBoozinCrew]

15 minutes ago, JackHargreav said:

In most games hard mode doesn't give you more. Hard mode is there for challenge and that's it.

I don't know why this should be any different in warframe.

I feel like most games scale rewards with difficulty. This is just an extension of that. It respects the players time by rewarding their investment. You don't expect to get Earth credit payouts on Sedna do you?

Not to mention missions like nightmare already exist, which give additional and better rewards for replaying harder variants of the same mission. 

Edited May 9, 2020 by TehBoozinCrew

[anarchy753]

12 minutes ago, JackHargreav said:

In most games hard mode doesn't give you more. Hard mode is there for challenge and that's it.

I don't know why this should be any different in warframe.

Warframe is a game built on collecting everything and improving your collection with things like the various forma. It also gets constant complaints about lack of content between patches.

"Play for the experience, not for the reward" doesn't work in Warframe, and it doesn't keep players playing. It only appeals to a tiny minority.

[TARINunit9]

14 minutes ago, JackHargreav said:

In most games hard mode doesn't give you more. Hard mode is there for challenge and that's it.

I don't know why this should be any different in warframe.

3 minutes ago, TehBoozinCrew said:

I feel like most games scale rewards with difficulty. This is just an extension of that. 

 

Not to mention missions like nightmare already exist, which give additional and better rewards for replaying harder variants of the same mission. 

It depends on which game, really

In non-MMO games, Hard Mode is usually there for the challenges and the achievements. The loot is indeed the same across both modes, with only tiny exceptions (like a couple exclusive weapons in Aria of Sorrow, for example)

In many MMO games, Hard Mode has its own exclusive rewards. I mean, that's the entire point of Raids dropping Raid Gear

[DOOMPATRIOT]

Oh look another "non- casual gamemode", just like PoE  at night, ESO, Arbitrations, were supposed to be...

Do I really need to say something else, I mean they even nerfed Fortuna, not to mention that the nerf to alll enemies really makes It now not even worth going far, since lvl 999 feels like how lvl 70 used to be...

Edited May 9, 2020 by DOOMPATRIOT

[(PSN)Navalhabr]

+Rare Resources 

+Xp 

+Fun (20min with enemies lvl 10-30 is so boring)

And for the Future, PLEASE DE: Special Units (like mini bosses) between the waves.

[TehBoozinCrew]

12 minutes ago, BDMblue said:

If I did hard it would only be in relics and would let you open 2 and 3 at a time max. I would also increase the number of relics you need to 15(hard) for 2 and 20(ultra) for 3. The normal mission rewards would be the same.

Maybe some (10+) new mod drops from just regular guys and a New guns parts. These could have a low drop chance to the point we have 10 threads a day complaining about it rare.

this would help to drain are relic pile ups.

That's, uh, certainly one way to kill two birds with one stone. Not very efficient on the relics, but I do like the idea of a high consumption quick payout option.

[Yamazuki]

14 minutes ago, JackHargreav said:

In most games hard mode doesn't give you more. Hard mode is there for challenge and that's it.

I don't know why this should be any different in warframe.

It's standard for higher difficulty content to have better rewards, and it's extremely common for there to be rewards entirely exclusive to higher difficulty content. Games like Warframe are primarily reward driven, there's no real point for most people to intentionally choose slower runs if they get nothing in return, otherwise disabling mods already does this. If Arbitration rewarded the same thing as their standard star chart counterpart, it would be completely dead; the same is true for ESO vs SO.

It is primarily Single Player games that offer no increase in reward based on difficulty, and even then, that mainly applies to games that let you swap difficulty on the spot. Although, Warframe is nothing like said games. Even many pvp games based around actual competition provide better and exclusive rewards to players within specific ranks, which isn't any different to pve games providing rewards exclusive to higher difficult instances, or god forbid the classic lock rewards behind unpopular content like raids.

[Jim22]

Built forma, rare mods like condition overload or adaption Etc. They could also start adding old prime frames to this mode as well like ember prime relics or frost prime. 

[TehBoozinCrew]

4 minutes ago, (PS4)Navalhabr said:

+Rare Resources 

What specific kind of resources, because I feel like most resources come in much faster than I can utilize them. 

Kuva, Void Traces, and Endo are the only resources I can think of that I actually need, and I have less than 100 days played on my PC account. And even then there seems to be an end in sight for the Endo.

[anarchy753]

2 minutes ago, TehBoozinCrew said:

What specific kind of resources, because I feel like most resources come in much faster than I can utilize them. 

Kuva, Void Traces, and Endo are the only resources I can think of that I actually need, and I have less than 100 days played on my PC account. And even then there seems to be an end in sight for the Endo.

Until you total up the amount that can be sunk into primed mods alone and it goes well into the millions.

[Yamazuki]

ESO already levels weapons in 2-5 minutes, which would still be quicker than "hard" mode of standard missions.

Higher exp for hard mode just translates into higher focus yields without relying on ESO to cap out for the day for those still needing it, and quicker Warframe leveling, which would still be slower than the current available methods anyways.

Either way, it would make no sense to complain about higher exp gains given the context, when we also already have plenty of easy ways to farm resources, and people get carried for resources all the time as well as resources being the real bottleneck in Warframe rather than affinity. This is before taking into account that resources are useless for most people geared enough to clear everything with ease; Warframe has little to nothing to use the excess resources on.

[TehBoozinCrew]

8 minutes ago, anarchy753 said:

Until you total up the amount that can be sunk into primed mods alone and it goes well into the millions.

And after that?