Discussion and Feedback on Hard Mode shown on devstream

[MouadSaqui]

😄 People say its a vocal minority that asks for challenge, DO YOU EVEN READ TWITCH CHAT ???? its all "HELL YEAH" ! if you are a casual player Don't worry you can still play on normal difficulty, it doesn't change anything for you !

[PurrrningBoop]

Oh, by the way, will fissures be included? It'll be fun to crack some Lith/Meso/Neo for a change.

[(PSN)LeBlingKing]

4 minutes ago, Kaotyke said:

Too hard. Pls nerf.

I'm not saying it's not supposed to be difficult. That's what I want. But for the objective as well as the enemy levels.

[PicoSparrowLord]

Just now, MouadSaqui said:

😄 People say its a vocal minority that asks for challenge, DO YOU EVEN READ TWITCH CHAT ???? its all "HELL YEAH" ! if you are a casual player Don't worry you can still play on normal difficulty, it doesn't change anything for you !

[Kaotyke]

4 minutes ago, TheGuyver said:

There's not a single concrete piece of information out there about it, other than that it's in active development and people are already complaining about it.

I thought I was done being surprised at just how low people would go to farm virtual upvotes on a forum, but here I am again.

Nah dude, we haven't yet got to the point of 

DE: Exists

People: Complain

 

[Monolake]

They nerfed the enemeis scaling so much that even +100 level is nothing. I used to play lots of arbitration for hours, now they are completely trivial its boring. Enemies basically dont scale past lvl80 and you are unkillable with shield gating and  arcanes buffs

I guess at least its something to have levels ~130 right away for veteran players to put their OP weapons to use. But it needs much more to make the game interesting for us since the mobs are total pushovers now and all the missions been done 100s time. Mission modifiers and limits on warframe and operator powers are required.

Edited May 8, 2020 by Monolake

[Gabbynaru]

I hope nothing important will be attached to this. Can't be bothered to clear the goddamn starchart for a fourth time (or so).

[Mos-Eisley]

Just now, Gabbynaru said:

I hope nothing important will be attached to this. Can't be bothered to clear the goddamn starchart for a fourth time (or so).

lol yeah true

 

[Jarriaga]

4 minutes ago, sh00chu said:

Mark my words; Offering any sort of increase in xp or resources for hard mode is a bad idea. Anything more than some sort of cosmetic badge or decoration will do way more harm than good. Being able to actually play a challenging game mode should be reward enough in itself.

I can cite historical examples as to why higher difficulties must absolutely offer better rewards. A big example is Anthem. Why would I do the hardest and most difficult stronghold when I get the exact same rewards as the easiest one?  

Hint: The answer relates to the reason why every single loot-based game in existence from Nioh to Shadow Warrior to Darksiders scale rewards with difficulty.

 If you think this is going to lead to some toxicity or a "git gud" mentality, then be my guest screaming into the void, because the conversation will lead nowhere.

[(NSW)C4ffy]

This is probably the thing I'm most excited about that was teased on today's DevStream and the ideas presented by @(PS4)LeBlingKing are very decent.

As for the next step of endgame difficulty I'd like to see content tweaked so hard that it wouldn't be possible to finish solo and thus would require squads to optimize frames to stay alive. But let's cross that bridge one step at a time. 

Looking forward to the Hard & Ultra Hard modes DE!

[Magus_Tahir]

Just now, PurrrningBoop said:

Oh, by the way, will fissures be included? It'll be fun to crack some Lith/Meso/Neo for a change.

That is a good idea I think when they get further along in dev for it certainly bring that up. Tho they should add something to it perhaps maybe double void traces or similar to ESO where relic drops on cycle will be radiant. It would be OP but perhaps hard mode fissure missions past mob lvl 200 could have a chance to drop multiple relics 200 = 2x, 300 = 3x, etc etc. 

[Cloud]

Frankly I can understand the op frustration. I've not seen the devstream, so I don't know if something else other than "higher level" was said, but if that's not the case it would be an huge letdown for me too.

Since these missions are supposed to be challenging, I would dare introducing a more threatening variety of enemies, new missions, new objectives. Of course giving time worth rewards for the increased difficulty because if not, this would just be an huge waste of time.

Edited May 8, 2020 by Cloud

[Alpha_Tango]

Hard mode demands some form of special reward. I am all for it, but things like this always draw casuals whinging that ultimately kills any form challenging content.

DE better hold up to these inevitable cries this time.

[Vit0Corleone]

5 minutes ago, Magus_Tahir said:

That is a good idea I think when they get further along in dev for it certainly bring that up. Tho they should add something to it perhaps maybe double void traces or similar to ESO where relic drops on cycle will be radiant. It would be OP but perhaps hard mode fissure missions past mob lvl 200 could have a chance to drop multiple relics 200 = 2x, 300 = 3x, etc etc. 

Not that I don't personally like that idea, but I think things like this are the ones that could potentially lead to segregation of the player base.

It's one thing to add difficulty levels to regular star chart nodes, which experienced players never really have a reason to do so virtually no impact, it's an entirely different scenario doing the same to popular activities where there's a healthy mix of low/high level players.

Would I, as a player, like to do that? Sure. Is that the best thing for the game in general? I'm not so sure about that.

Edited May 8, 2020 by Vit0Corleone

[CeePee]

+100 levels to enemies isn't that big of a difficulty increase anymore with the enemy balance changes, I'd be happy with just extra resources and credits.

[(NSW)Katsuro]

this is why we cant have nice things

[Felsagger]

7 hours ago, Magus_Tahir said:

That puts a smile in my face C :

 

 

Edited May 9, 2020 by Felsagger

[(XBOX)l Saminator l]

My jaw dropped as soon as I saw the Hard Mode option on the stream, as well them talking about Ultra Hard Mode, and certain rewards you can obtain for completing all hard nodes, and i'm assuming ultra hard nodes too. 

All I really wanted was to be able to throw myself into a level 130+ exterminate and just have a bit a of fun, maybe test out some builds in a realistic mission. So I'm very happy! 

[Corvid]

20 minutes ago, (PS4)LeBlingKing said:

Tenno could one-shot the kneecaps off of an open-world Sentient ZOMBIE that's TEN FEET TALL.

Pretty sure they're a lot taller than that. For reference, the average Warframe is 8ft.

[Magus_Tahir]

1 minute ago, Vit0Corleone said:

Not that I don't personally like that idea, but I think things like this are the ones that could potentially lead to segregation of the player base.

It's one thing to add difficulty levels to regular star chart nodes, which experienced players never really have a reason to do so virtually no impact, it's an entirely different scenario doing the same to popular activities where there's a health mix of low/high level players.

Would I, as a player, like to do that? Sure. Is that the best thing for the game in general? I'm not so sure about that.

Speculation and personal dreams aside. You're correct in that reasoning, there are just to many variables to be able to make any concrete expectations right now. The pragmatist in me says wait for what they come up with and see how the community likes it before looking at anything beyond the basics of this particular mode.

[MartianGHunter]

I agree I don't want inflated numbers as difficulty i want the missions to be more of challenge by adding multiple objectives that ate failable if you don't plan ahead and use right frames for the job.

[sh00chu]

1 minute ago, Jarriaga said:

I can cite historical examples as to why higher difficulties must absolutely offer better rewards. A big example is Anthem. Why would I do the hardest and most difficult stronghold when I get the exact same rewards as the easiest one?  

Hint: The answer relates to the reason why every single loot-based game in existence from Nioh to Shadow Warrior to Darksiders scale rewards with difficulty.

 If you think this is going to lead to some toxicity or a "git gud" mentality, then be my guest screaming into the void, because the conversation will lead nowhere.

The toxicity and "git gud" mentality has already started sprouting in this very thread, but no, that isn't what concerns me. There's one HUGE difference between this game and the ones you mentioned. Aside from Anthem, which was a pile of hot garbage from day one for waaaaaaay more reasons than its reward system, those are all single player games with a (more or less) conclusive ending. Warframe is a continuous live service with no end in sight and relies on continuing engagement with existing content to stay alive.

Now you could make the argument that adding a hard mode will bring players back to experience a more difficult version of what they've already done, but here's what will actually happen if xp and resources are attached to that: there will be a surge of people trying it out, and when that surge ends, all that will be left is the hardcore players that didn't need the xp or resources to begin with, and the "normies" and "casuals" that tried it out will only return to it so that they can quickly level up some new gear so they can get back to the real game of complaining that there's no new content.

I could go on, but as I said in my original post, mark my words, increased xp and resource rewards are going to snowball into a huge problem down the road. Let me be clear, I am NOT against a hard mode. I'm against unbalancing the already fragile resource economy and progression curves.

 

[PicoSparrowLord]

4 minutes ago, sh00chu said:

The toxicity and "git gud" mentality has already started sprouting in this very thread, but no, that isn't what concerns me. There's one HUGE difference between this game and the ones you mentioned. Aside from Anthem, which was a pile of hot garbage from day one for waaaaaaay more reasons than its reward system, those are all single player games with a (more or less) conclusive ending. Warframe is a continuous live service with no end in sight and relies on continuing engagement with existing content to stay alive.

Now you could make the argument that adding a hard mode will bring players back to experience a more difficult version of what they've already done, but here's what will actually happen if xp and resources are attached to that: there will be a surge of people trying it out, and when that surge ends, all that will be left is the hardcore players that didn't need the xp or resources to begin with, and the "normies" and "casuals" that tried it out will only return to it so that they can quickly level up some new gear so they can get back to the real game of complaining that there's no new content.

I could go on, but as I said in my original post, mark my words, increased xp and resource rewards are going to snowball into a huge problem down the road. Let me be clear, I am NOT against a hard mode. I'm against unbalancing the already fragile resource economy and progression curves.

 

"all that will be left is the hardcore players that didn't need the xp or resources to begin with"

I kinda need kuva and endo and credits and alot of other stuff and ive played alot

Also Requiem Kuva survival is a harder version of kuva survival with more rewards and i love that mode

 

Edited May 8, 2020 by PicoSparrowLord

[(PSN)Lemamori980]

I wasent able to get this through to the devs in the stream. but I feel like the hardmode assasination node in the orokin derilect would do good to have unmade potatos as the rarest reward. it would give new life to the derilect epecialy if they made it to where you have to get a special type of nav coordinate by playing other hardmode nodes in the derilect.

[MacKerris]

16 minutes ago, Corvid said:

Pretty sure they're a lot taller than that. For reference, the average Warframe is 8ft.

My understanding is that they are @6 feet in height. With Mag being as short as 5'5"...