Why there are so many content "islands" in Warframe

[Tesseract7777]

I have seen a lot of complaining lately about so called "content islands" lately, probably because youtubers are using the buzz phrase right now, but I think it's important to reflect on why why are where we are. 

Why do we have so many parts of the game that feel isolated from the rest? Well, it is largely because of the players own desires. Now, I know the players are not a monolithic group, and sometimes DE listens to a vocal minority and gets it wrong, but this is a problem I have seen going on with Warframe for a long time. 

DE will introduce a new mechanic, and it is clear the point is to integrate it with the game, either right away or in the future (or it might even be partly integrated already). And immediately, the complaints start if it is at all tied to the rest of the game, because those who don't like the new mechanic don't want to feel "forced" to do it. 

So DE disconnects it from the larger game. And then the next new thing and the next. 

And then people complain because now we have a bunch of content "islands". We can't have it both ways. 

As players, we can't constantly ask DE to make the game so we can choose to do whatever content we want without feeling "forced" to occasionally do modes we don't care for, in order to progress in the larger universe, and also complain about content islands, imo. When you ask the developers to allow you to pick and choose any content you want without feeling like you need to do any of it in order to truly progress (beyond mastery) then you put them in a position where they have to disconnect most of it from the rest of the game. 

I think what DE needs to do is take the bold move of starting to integrate all these pieces of content, and if people complain about feeling forced to do content, try to find a middle ground between them feeling resentful about doing something they don't like, and completely removing it from the larger game as a whole. 

What do you all think? Do you think I am off base? If you agree, how do you think DE can integrate the various parts of the game while pleasing those who don't want to pressured to do content they don't care for? How do we find a happy medium between those who want the game to actually feel integrated as a whole, and those who don't want any chocolate with their peanut butter? 

[AltairFerenc]

I kinda agree. 
The problem is with these islands that they have thier own separete resources.
PoE and fortuna are a great examples, railjack too for some extent but atleast some rj resources are drop on the starchart too(except the ones that you need) 
Also everything is a syndicate now wich is really bad, baruuk and hildryn are locked behind 2 sindycates. you either mindlessly farm in fixed posites and pray for rng to get the toroids or max out fortuna to do orb mothers and get the toroids from there

1st of all I would like to have onkko and little duck merged syndicate wise since they are both quills why are they separete? Sure they should  have they own shops and only duck should accept toroids and only onkko should accept sentient cores but they should have the same syndicate.
And every new quill/quill like syndicate should be merged from the get go
 

2nd cetus and fortuna, cetus is on earth but has completly separete resources than the rest of the planet, or the starchart for that matter, same with fortuna. they have to do the same with railjack, some of these open world resourcers should come to thier planets and even remove some of them because there's just too many for no reason at all. 
Also get some more rj resources to the starchart in some form.
This with future open worlds as well.

 

3rd different modes
Arbitration and steel path. both of them has thier own resource and shop, wich is fine since both of them are completly optional but both of those need a boost on drop chance, especially steel essence.

 

Personal nitpicks: We need a new place to get bot oxium and cryotic, I'm sick hunting of those ospreys and I hate excavation from the bottom of my hearth. Riven slivers trade to ro riven should not be limited to 1/week, but 3/week, sorties are kinda meh and rng is a b*tch too. Something about standing gaining should be done too since for new and returning playres it's horrible to just repeat bounties for no other reason but to get standing because of the limit they can get a day, gain should not be limited but how much you can spend should be.

[nslay]

It's probably easier to balance drop rates within content islands rather than throughout the entire massive game that is Warframe.

[Voltage]

Same reason we have content drought. Anything with depth and a bit of grind is "bad" (personally I disagree, but the hive-mind of Warframe's community always wins), DE waters down the system by making it easier/faster to finish, then players complete updates in either hours or days, and have to wait months for something new. Basically this just boils down to who DE is listening to and which players make DE the most income. It would be nice to change, but I have a good hunch that the long term players aren't the most profitable ones in the grand scheme of things.

[Hypernaut1]

What do you mean by "integrate all content"? By making them dependent on each other?

[Magus_Tahir]

No you pretty much nailed it concisely. Whether people will want to admit it or not. This very much ties into what I spoke about recently where DE is at times too connected to their community and that has become a detriment at this stage of the games existence. They are going to have to moderate that connection going forward and stick to their guns so to speak and tie everything we have together (minus conclave) and move forward no matter the cost for there to be a future. That and also redo the new player experience for the modern day, that is one major wall that needs to be cleared as well. It is time for Warframe to grow up, it's not a kid anymore, it's made new friends, kept some old ones, but now it needs to decide what it wants to be and get to work.

I can not iterate enough that this community is both the games greatest asset, and its worst hindrance in the grand scheme of things. The worst part of my perspective is of course the salt, so much has been thrown around at DE in the last year and a half that I fear they are becoming jaded. Constructive criticism is fine and good, but by sheer volume can become just as vile as the worst fiery pitched commentary these forums and Youtube are able to churn out. This leads to choosing to ignore even the most refined good ideas no matter how they are presented when a team becomes numbed to the constant bombardment of vitriolic critique. They are not there yet, but I fear if some slack is not cut soon they will be. 

Just as much as DE has the responsibility to link the "content islands" in the game, the players are going to have to wake up and realize they too are groups of islands themselves in the community and come to a consensus on what type of game they want. Both new and old players alike.

[Rakosta_Kai]

28 minutes ago, Tesseract7777 said:

What do you all think?

I think you are correct in the notion that DE listens and acts on feedback even when not all feedback makes sense.

I also agree that DE has in the past chosen not to integrate content in the main game due to player feedback.

But even agreeing with you on those points doesn't equate to the whole scenario either...

DE uses those modes to encourage certain types/forms of gameplay and requirements for rewards/content advancement. Once the rewards from those modes are gotten people tend to avoid them in some instances.

That new content gets introduced requiring other certain forms of gameplay and requirements for other rewards/content advancement isn't the fault of the player...

DE does this to ensure that players start from "square one" in the new content to slow content consumption.

While that's no different from dungeons in other games it definitely has the potential to be more tedious.

29 minutes ago, Tesseract7777 said:

Do you think I am off base?

Not entirely...

That people need to use their own brain, as opposed to being led around by some random pundits comments, is a valid one. Likewise, the notion that people need to stop complaining about the crap they asked for to begin with is a very valid one.

That these "content islands" are the player's fault? Nope... I have to disagree with you there.

 

That said, the term "Content Islands" was meant to be derisive from the outset... The older term would have been "ThemePark" and each of these "content islands" are merely one attraction in it.

I agree though that implying isolation seems a bit silly— Especially when we compare it to a normal Themepark...

It's not like we should expect to see Jurassic Park dinosaurs in the Wizarding World of Harry Potter's Diagon Alley either. 

[(XBOX)YoungGunn82]

25 minutes ago, Hypernaut1 said:

What do you mean by "integrate all content"? By making them dependent on each other?

Were you around during the 2018 Tennocon?

Above: This would be considered an example of integrated content. Which Steve has already suggested on numerous occasions was the goal.  

[Xardis]

Honestly, from my point of view, DE pushes out content, and then start thinking on next big thing, rarely looking back at old content. And when they do it, its overall, never a big update of the old content, usualy quality of life stuff, almost never an integration of several disconnected alreas of the game.

[(PSN)Elvenbane]

I think DE likes to develop islands of content because it's just easier. Less things to test, less chance of breaking stuff because it's not connected, quicker to release since you don't need to rework old content, etc. The "grand vision" might be to connect things, but I don't think this is ever the actual/realistic development goal.

Putting any of this on players is lame, the developer needs to put on their big boy pants and do the best they can to create a coherent/compelling gaming experience.

[(PSN)Onder6099]

1st part of F2P basics: Attract players as much as possible.

[Aldain]

1 hour ago, Tesseract7777 said:

I think what DE needs to do is take the bold move of starting to integrate all these pieces of content

I agree only as long as "Integrate" doesn't become "Contaminate", for example if I have to start farming Toroids and Systems to progress in other parts of the game I will check out so fast it would make your head spin.

The other thing is that tying progression to multiple unrelated things is a very slippery slope, especially if somebody starts trying to have the new baseline for the game be Steel Path levels of number walls that make a wide amount of things useless simply by numeric inferiority.

[(XBOX)YoungGunn82]

6 minutes ago, Aldain said:

I agree only as long as "Integrate" doesn't become "Contaminate", for example if I have to start farming Toroids and Systems to progress in other parts of the game I will check out so fast it would make your head spin.

The other thing is that tying progression to multiple unrelated things is a very slippery slope, especially if somebody starts trying to have the new baseline for the game be Steel Path levels of number walls that make a wide amount of things useless simply by numeric inferiority.

They should start simple. Such as atmospheric flight. They don’t necessarily have to integrate everything. But they do need to do a better job at story telling and integration should be a way a natural flow to the cannon.  

[SneakyErvin]

It is a problem that rests in poor design planning.

The islandness of WF could have easily been solved and tied together by reworking all drops into something unified instead of having a gazillion different materials and drops exlusives to specific mission types or planets. This could then be further expanded on by making all planets equally beneficial to play on, so one mode/node/planet isnt the be-all-end-all solution. The problem is DE has a hard time thinking outside of the box, so they leave the content littered with this pile of different resources and planets left with no reason to come back.

DE have pinned themselves into a corner when most new releases come with new types of resources. Instead of adding more and more the missions could have easily had the new materials added ontop of the old basic ones. Then when the next new pieces of content comes, this formerly new material would be converted into the basic materials of the game and had their place occupied by the now new resource needed for this type of content. And as the previous "season's" loot gets converted to the old, the build requirements would also be converted to use "basic" materials for all blueprints from that "season".

In such a case nothing would ever become obsolete, we'd also be able to play where we want in order to gather whatever we need and DE would still be able to introduce new unique mats to counter hoarding. It would also have a passive "catch up" mechanic since blueprints would be converted to use older mats when they arent the latest content addition to the game. It would kinda be like when the requirements for building the RJ got changed, the difference would be that DE wouldnt have to adjust the costs manually, the game would do that automatically when new content is released that need new resources.

[Oreades]

Because the resources in the game accumulate to absurd levels over time and their choices are 

1. Do nothing, Add new content and have people pick up everything out of the gate without actually playing it.
2. Do something, Add new content island and have players actually play the content. 

tl;dr 
The resource economy or lack there of necessitates it. 

[markus230]

Problem is, DE is like a puppy. They see a new ball and go chase it, but along the way they notice another dog, and run towards the dog, but before they get to the other dog, they notice an interesting leaf and start playing with it instead.

Basically, DE can't focus on anything and they don't plan one step ahead.

"We will add open world", DE says, and when asked what are they going to do with it in the future, they answer with "We will add space battles". And so on, and so on.

I'd say a more fitting description of what DE does isn't content island, but content dead end. The game branches in all kinds of directions, but as soon as you go to explore that branch of content, it turns out you have to go back the way you came because there is almost nothing there.

It also applies to lore and quests. Stalker and Hunhow plot thread was dropped 5 years ago for no good reason for example.

In POE, we've got Unum that still does nothing, we still haven't got the second Eidolon that was promised years ago. In OV we still didn't get the last Orb Mother, and Nef Anyo's Temple is still closed off. Kuva Liches still only have one personality per gender, they still don't raise through Grineer hierarchy and they are still not integrated with Railjack. Railjack is still missing the last intrinsic, there is still only a SINGLE game mode available.

DE just needs to finally commit to their ideas, instead of leaving everything in barebones state. The game begins to feel like a scrap yard of unfinished game prototypes.

Railjack was looking to be the thing that would redefine the game, and Liches were lookin to be a way of making the game world more dynamic. But that means nothing if DE never fulfills those concetps

[(XBOX)Oni EliteZ]

I honestly love this game and love how community focus DE are. I am more willing than in any other game to pay from Prime packs etc because I like to support when I can. That being said there are section of this community, as with any other that contain the worst kind of people. I am constantly baffled by those who demand for something to be completed more quickly and then complain when it isn't as originally intended. If DE feels pressure to release sooner and they don't reach their intended designs how is this a surprise. I don't even want to bring this post down with the regular comments etc I read from apparent fans of this game.

I guess if from my experience of Vallis (I wasn't much into the game when PoE released) if the resources were the same we already have stockpiles of as longer term players, then people would finish the content very quickly and almost a guarantee that the forums would be filled with people complaining they waited x time for something the completed "too quickly". On the flip side, many of these same people immediately complained that all their previous resources had no benefit on the new economies. It is sad that some of the most vocal people in the community never seemed to be pleased.

I cover the spectrum of paying for Prime Access, and going long periods without (usually because of means) as well as playing this game almost non stop, then switching to daily log ins and a mission or two tops. Nothing has to be paid for and the grind really isn't the worst that exists in RNG in gaming.

I guess what I am trying to get at is some people are never pleased and those that feel DE owes them the most (because the play this game only and pay for packs?) can sometimes be the worst. I think it is very easy to enjoy this game in so many capacities and I always find a way to come back.

 

Deviated a little but as to OP, I would love for there to be greater integration between every aspect of this game, it would be a big decision to make and I don't know if it will be made, but these content islands seem completely manageable as they are. I try to never rush through all content but that is just me.

[ChaoticEdge]

too many content island?  yes do agree for we do need start to lump them together, in fact they had always the issues with "ArchWings" and try eliminate them out the picture as a replacement of archwing but the chose was super undecided. Now in RJ and Archwings are being lump up with each others that they cannot denied it anymore but same time they want to kill archwings and players base on them still hate them in those old archwing missions when they could of gone with the RJ but it seem both are pretty much in hell bunker that they are lock in tight dealing painful stress lvl that is really killing themselves.

To come think about it they aren't lumping up much during the past times again and again for the only thing that they lump up more on then the other is the quest.  I do wish they put together about several other things as well.

[Methanoid]

Because, more grind, more timegate.

[Kai]

Sure, it is heavily overwhelming for new players given how isolated some parts of the game is, but then again - if they were to make something that is tied to the base game where you can put in your stocked up resources in a blink of an eye, old players would be finishing it without issue and then it goes back to that cycle of "Content Drought" simply because we really don't have to do anything to farm for the new system.
 

I can say that it definitely has its pros and cons, but perhaps meeting in the middle would be better for both old and new alike, having to farm new resources while allowing your current resources be useful in a way for the new system would definitely help ease the transition and make it less isolated.

[taiiat]

lately? try since 2014, 2015 at the latest.

 

3 hours ago, Tesseract7777 said:

As players, we can't constantly ask DE to make the game so we can choose to do whatever content we want without feeling "forced" to occasionally do modes we don't care for, in order to progress in the larger universe, and also complain about content islands, imo.

couldn't we? with stuff like... Nightchore, being offered to do __ while it not actually mattering if you do it or ignore it - sounds exactly like stuff can not be totally separated from the rest of the game while also not being forced to partake.

applying that across the rest of the game isn't as simple, but the point still stands.

the best way i see additional systems being able to not be isolated but also be optional, is say, imagine if(polish, acquisition, Et Cetera concerns aside) traversing in Open Worlds we had Hoverboards, Archwing, some sort of 'Car', spacekid, and ofcourse Warframe. if you hate one of those mobility systems, you'd be far from required to partake in any particular one of those systems, since there are many other options.

 

 

7 minutes ago, Kai said:

if they were to make something that is tied to the base game where you can put in your stocked up resources in a blink of an eye, old players would be finishing it without issue and then it goes back to that cycle of "Content Drought" simply because we really don't have to do anything to farm for the new system.

why is said theoretical system nothing more than collecting 37 new types of Credits? that'll be the problem with that scenario, that the 'content' isn't really content in the first place.

 

 

[Lakais]

One of the biggest reasons for "content islands" is the fact that they need the players to actually engage with the content. More then half of the reason for this engagement is resource gathering for any kind of item, weapon or cosmetic. Meaning, if they DIDN'T add in some resource unique to that new piece of content that players would then have to engage with at lenght, older, more established players could just buy their way into those items and the content would go unplayed. 

This is why there are unique resources and even syndicates associated with PoE, Fortuna and RJ. If they didn't do this type of segregation, older players would simply bypass most of the purpose of this content in the first place. The point of PoE is NOT the Zaw's you can get out of it but the plains themselves. Cetus, the newer enemies, the very valley we get to fight in. Those are the core and key components. But players are reward oriented, regardless of game. There has to be some shiny new thingy at the end of any endeavor or else it is seen as a complete waste of time. So the "islanding" of this content is directly tied to stretch out that endeavor of getting the resources as much as possible to make it worth for DE to dump in all those man-hours, money and other resources to make that content. 

I would love for there to be more connection between the various systems. And Railjack at it's original core idea was to help deliver us closer to that. That dream is not yet dead but I am afraid that unless there is some kind of hard, painful change done to how we collect or have resources to spend then it will not change. 

I'm willing to go so far as to suggest and accept a resource cap. Meaning we can only carry an X ammount of a resource in our inventor at any time. Those who are over that, keep it but can't earn more until they have dropped down bellow that cap. This would mean, hypothetically, mean that regardless of how many hours you have farmed, at some point you are still going to need to go out and farm for Nano Spores because the hard cap for it is at... say 50k and the gun you want is 80k. And the crafting system would work much like the repair system on Railjack.