Honesty time...

[krc473]

1 hour ago, Flameend11 said:

As Game dev and modder myself i want you all to think about this: What do you want from warframe to become? What you want added, that you honestly think is needed.

People are thinking about this and giving their feedback. They want changes to stuff like Railjack because it feels like a badly done taxi service. Many people want everyone to agree with their own opinion, there really isn’t one concise “what the community wants”. 

• For instance: I’d like DE to stop adding modes that don’t work. But that would require DE to spend more time playing the game and consulting players. If we got more refined updates that didn’t have the obvious issues (check workshops, people state some fairly obvious issues) then maybe the game would be better.

Do I think everyone else wants this too? No, because then we wouldn’t get as much new content.

 

I think the better question would be to ask people why they believe what they want is the best choice. Knowing what you want is one thing, being able to justify it as the direction to move in is something different.

[ANTONIO255]

10 minutes ago, Psianide73 said:

Where are Warframe and Destiny defined as RPGs?

An action RPG (acronym for action role-playing game), or action RPG, is a role-playing video game that requires quick actions or quick reflexes on the part of the player. The term is generally used to distinguish such games from the traditional turn-based role-playing video game, similar to the role-playing game done with paper and pencil. In a turn-based RPG when the player encounters an enemy or an obstacle, he can choose from a menu of options. After selecting the desired action, the chosen action takes place, and the player can perform a subsequent action. In an action RPG, the enemy attacks relentlessly, and the player must respond with a series of quick actions. to give you an example in destiny we have the titan (Tank), the hunter (Dps) and the witch (Healer or Buffer), while in warframe we also have similarities here as when you go to hunt the eidolon and use the trinity to heal lures (Healer), harrow for not having the magnetic debuff (Support) and volt to boost damage (Buffer / Dps)

[Aldain]

1 hour ago, Flameend11 said:

WHAT DO YOU WANT?!

Personally I want a stat squish and less multiplier spam in all levels of content in Warframe so we have an actual measurement of power expectations rather than a range of 1 to 1,000,000,000.

However it is difficult for my idea to have any weight when you have some people constantly complaining that every new piece of content doesn't give out a new pre-nerf Kuva Bramma-like weapon and constantly dismissing everything not at that level as MR fodder.

It is a massive push and pull that never seems to go anywhere because nobody wants to even try to find a compromise, hell when the Kuva Liches launched there was basically a war between people who thought the auto death on requiem test was stupid and others who just shouted "git gud" at any complaints mindlessly.

To sum it up, no compromise ever takes place because of the crowd of people on both sides that just yell "SHUT UP" any time anything is even remotely discussed.

[(PSN)iuvenilis]

1 hour ago, Flameend11 said:

WHAT DO YOU WANT?!

The warframe community isn't some single hive mind. The playebase has become very broad over the years, and so have the thoughts and ideas. 

If you're somehow hoping the tens of thousands of players will all of a sudden agree on things, you're being unrealistic, and borderline delusional. 

When big changes happen or new updates, there's so many voices screaming to be heard, it's best just to block it all out and wait for the dust to settle.

[Surbusken]

Either people have a point of they don't.

If people have a totally far fetched, like objectively false complaint, wouldn't you just laugh at it?

Some guy posting he was upset railjack update had too few christmas trees, would you still be upset? Something that has no truth to it, per default, must be so far out it's funny.

That aside, you have to understand that debating is natural, healthy and required. Is how we learn and progress. And, the developers claim to "build the game based on player feedback".

On top of that, we are all people from different continents, age groups, with different experiences and so on, of course we don't or want the same things.

This is lesson one in marketing and sales. If you direct your product at one group, another group falls out.

Everyone is allowed to not like or like whatever they want - not to say there is no such thing as objectively bad game design, that can be universally complained about.

It is assumed that the developers, thanks to game metrics, can see how many players continue to engage with content after the initial grind of new loot.

That's the feedback they look at.

They don't use forum complaints as an indicator. If they earn enough money selling whatever and whatever number of players continue to play it, it wasn't a failure.

It's also assumed that the general forum is more or less completely ignored, lol.

The deal being the developers don't read negative posts and then in turn the players get to vent, without being banned, like you normally would.

It's a good deal I feel.

Then to comment on the negativity around the railjack update, the concept was originally launched with "take your railjack into regular missions". Not to a mission.

That then turned into seperated, pure space combat, that were "disconnected".

Then leading up to this update it was said that they had added "defense missions", where everyone then thinks more railack mission types for pure space - since railjack had turned into pure space.

Which then got turned around again, into being copy-pasted ground defense missions. Not pure space and not take your railjack into regular missions.

That's the debacle of "connectivity" going on right now.

People looking for pure space game modes were disappointed, people hoping to take railjack - into - missions got disappointed, so they actually missed both groups, unfortunately.

That's the point people are trying to get across by calling it "a taxi".

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NGpJICoghnQ

if you google the railjack trailer, you will see how they are straight up loading into venus open world, pick someone up and fly around the map. That's what people have been waiting for this whole time...

 

That's not irrational, entitled players trolling on the forum... those are the certified facts, lol.

BUT, after the disappointment of the first round of railjack, they had the option to go with "pure space" instead moving forward, which I feel most people expected.

Instead they go back to 4 years ago trying to work in "budget" connectivity, that still isn't what was advertised at the cost of space gameplay.

So you neither got connectivty nor space, you got "taxi to ground missions". 

 

 

[LSG501]

16 minutes ago, Tesseract7777 said:

I agree completely, I think it's a big disconnect between DE and the community right now, especially calling it a workshop when... whatever it is they are doing, isn't that. Call it a feedback thread, at least be honest about it. 

But even better, I would like to see them stop being so afraid of the worst of their playerbase, and show us stuff way more early on when it is in a more hypothetical sense and they haven't wasted a bunch of effort yet (for example the original weakpoint idea for eximus, they made a better version for glassmaker enemies, but the initial idea didn't work and showing us super early on allowed for good feedback on it before they sunk a bunch of time further into it). Then they could know before it is way too late, if stuff like necramechs might actually be entirely a waste of time that has no real place in the game. Or make huge modifications to make it better fit what players are looking for, before it is almost ready to ship. 

I get why they don't. Some people are really toxic when giving feedback, and really toxic if it doesn't look like the initial prototype, etc. But those people will always exist, you gotta just block/ban/tune them out if they are being truly unreasonable, and just keep doing the best for the game anyways.  

 

As someone who works in design and regularly has work critiqued by clients, one of the first things you need to learn to do is to not take that critique personally and in some respects I think DE takes negative albeit valid feedback personally and then become stubborn and unwilling to correct their mistakes.  For all their 'want to make things better' in devstreams I don't feel any of the recent changes have improved things, they've just moved the problem onto something else (credit/endo farming)  

Yeah showing things earlier really could save them time in the long run.  If they'd have done the 'workshop' earlier they could have likely saved themselves work/time which could have gone elsewhere.  For example, I don't think anyone really likes the change to credit/endo based mods in railjack (it's far from being 'inclusive' and imo is more about plat sales) but DE must have spent a fair bit of time converting everything... that's time that could have been used to better integrate the 'taxi' bit. 

[vegetosayajin]

1 hour ago, Flameend11 said:

WHAT DO YOU WANT?!

tbh I love the new railjack, it's almost exactly what I wanted, the previous one was boring

[Psianide73]

20 minutes ago, ANTONIO255 said:

An action RPG (acronym for action role-playing game), or action RPG, is a role-playing video game that requires quick actions or quick reflexes on the part of the player. The term is generally used to distinguish such games from the traditional turn-based role-playing video game, similar to the role-playing game done with paper and pencil. In a turn-based RPG when the player encounters an enemy or an obstacle, he can choose from a menu of options. After selecting the desired action, the chosen action takes place, and the player can perform a subsequent action. In an action RPG, the enemy attacks relentlessly, and the player must respond with a series of quick actions. to give you an example in destiny we have the titan (Tank), the hunter (Dps) and the witch (Healer or Buffer), while in warframe we also have similarities here as when you go to hunt the eidolon and use the trinity to heal lures (Healer), harrow for not having the magnetic debuff (Support) and volt to boost damage (Buffer / Dps)

I don't consider Warframe an mmorpg, and everywhere I've checked agrees with that assessment.

There are no massively multiplayer elements to the game. There are no roles.

But I'll leave you to your opinions.

 

[Hayrack]

Community absolutely matches the game. You get what you build.

[cliffghost]

vor 1 Stunde schrieb Flameend11:

WHAT DO YOU WANT?!

Old Railjack with Gian Point as only mission in the Ludoplex. For the memories.

I wouldn't touch it often but to know it would be there if I would want to replay it would feel good.

Flexa was better anyway for affinity farm.

See you at Kasios Rest...

[o0Despair0o]

1 hour ago, Flameend11 said:

We don't know what we want.

You only noticed that now?

This "community" has always been unable to agree on anything.

[STUVash]

Il y a 2 heures, Flameend11 a dit :

I have one question to comunity:

WHAT DO YOU WANT?!

Too bad OP... You already gone wrong. Only a small portion of the community actually gets on the forums. And for those that do come to the forums, they don't usually post anything or read all of... this.

Révélation

 

And for those that do post something, it can sometimes be a "Thank you" on the last update post And then they left. Forgotten. Like a dream.


I know because I was one of them for years. I preferred enjoying the game rather than come to this forum.

So if you're asking the community on the forums then you're doing it wrong, kinda like DE would.
The best way to contact the players directly is by sending them an in-box message in the game, with a link offering the opportunity to complete a survey about various directions the game would go and for each the opportunity to send text for a more customized answer.

Then DE would just look at the overall survey graph, everyone can set one for free so I'm sure they could too. And it would give them the average data they need to understand the playerbase. And when a part of this data needs more info, they could check the text that come with it if there's any.

That'd be covering most of the players fast and easy, even the shy ones that want to avoid this white background blasting our eyes while we type black text on it.
Then you'd know.

 

Now if you just want to know what I want.

Révélation

I want most players to be happy, myself included, I'm fine if the late game gear turn the game into ultra easy mode. But I want the freedom to turn the heat either by entering Steel Path or by removing Gear. I want the freedom to decide when my play gets smarter or dumber.
I want each system of the game to be worthy of my time and reflection, so that I can shape it with my own image, at times dumber, smarter or stronger.
Be it Modding, Fighting with a Warframe, flying with a railjack or anything.

I want DE to get as wild as they were so far with the story, visuals, sound design, music, visual effects, game design.
I want DE mad plans they keep teasing on every Tennocon, especially the ones we're really thrilled about and we can't stop talking about for years, to not just be a pretty demo but something I can play, I want them to know I'm thrilled by what they show as they intended and I want them to deliver on that indirect promise they make when they showcase anything as playable on their screen.

And I want similar freedom for everything in the game, I want to go anywhere I should be able to go and do whatever I want as stated by the basic rules of the game. I don't want inconsistencies that don't make sense. If I'm restrained in a place where I'm usually not, I want to know why and it better make sense to me, the Tenno. Both as a player and as the character I play as.

PS: Really liked the update but still criticized a few points as indicated in my feedback post.

[Goodwill]

I wouldn't mind getting the option to toggle old Warframe stamina and parkour on.

[ebrl]

Man, if you're going to quit a game (or just generally get mad at it instead of enjoying it) because of the community, you better find another hobby.

 

2 hours ago, Leqesai said:

I will suggest, however, staying away from Discord. Discord is probably the most vile source of player to player communication on the internet. More so than 4chan, I'd argue.

This a thousand times, Discord is absolutely cancerous. Warframe Discord is still a lot more reasonable than most other servers I've been to (by being large enough to mostly drown out the worst stuff with rampant inanity), but Discord itself is still a platform that attracts and enables a.... certain kind of people. Various certain kinds of people, in fact.

[STUVash]

@Flameend11By the way you should definitely check the Corpus Mission feedback thread, you can see players express themselves lot better there overall.
Some still come there to talk about bugs while there's a section for it, some still just whine without enough clarity but there a lot more people voicing their concern and respect over DE's craft and suggestions to probably fix whatever they see as an issue in their game.

Most of us hating or loving the railjack update seem to align and agree on some points. You might find this interesting.

[Leqesai]

9 minutes ago, ebrl said:

This a thousand times, Discord is absolutely cancerous. Warframe Discord is still a lot more reasonable than most other servers I've been to (by being large enough to mostly drown out the worst stuff with rampant inanity), but Discord itself is still a platform that attracts and enables a.... certain kind of people. Various certain kinds of people, in fact.

Yes it does. And it is really annoying that it is so commonly used. Everyone and their mother has a Discord. And 99.9999% of them are not moderated by competent people. The amount of lewd, racist, and otherwise offensive channels is appalling. No parent of good conscience should let their kids use discord.

[(PSN)Wil_Shatner_face]

2 hours ago, ANTONIO255 said:

technically warframe is an MMORPG

Its definitely not.

[(PSN)Wil_Shatner_face]

2 hours ago, Vaml77 said:

The problem with DE is that it changes things without having an opinion base of those who like this or that. The change in railjack was made to suit casuals or those with no idea what they are asking for.

The result was in my opinion bad. Railjack had no problem. Now there are millions of them.

So what do you say to people who like the new Railjack? They’re wrong? They don’t know what they really like?

[GEN-Son_17]

3 hours ago, Flameend11 said:

I though i would never say this, but here I am...

I'm sick of warframe comunity...

Don't get me wrong many of you guys are awsome people, with big range of creativity and are simply awsome... But just...

*sigh*

There is big problem with our comunity, that i dismissed for to long, the cause of my opinion of DE loosing contact with us.

We don't know what we want.

The newest updeat is biggest example. I love how it turned out. I hadn't so much blast in the game with my pals since the original Railjack relese, and i think this updeat is great...

But then... I go to the discord.

On one discord server i hear that new railjack succ becose it feels more like taxi from normal mission to normal mission... Then on the other discord i hear that rhis updeat succ becose it is not connected enough with the rest of the game, and should be more integrated as transportation, even to go so far to delete whole upgreat mechanic.

Do you already see the problem?

Other example: Sanctuary onslaught, Some say they should integrate more variety in the tiles we play in, and expand it, some says DE Should delete this mode compleatly.

Nightwave: Anything from regain 1 season mechanics, being small chunks of the non interactive story, some says it should be like newest one...

I have one question to comunity:

WHAT DO YOU WANT?!

And don't say to me with empty words like endgame. Endgame propositions have been added and then droped by comunity, becose" It was not endgame, just another farm island"

When DE implements conective tishue, we get reaction like:" They are doing it as poor taxi excuse"

As Game dev and modder myself i want you all to think about this: What do you want from warframe to become? What you want added, that you honestly think is needed.

It is strange to me, for over two years I've been on warframe sub redits. I was acive person... But today i left... All of them.

Why? Becose we as comunity, Succ. everyone on their own is fine, but we have no purpose, no aim... We are just lost, with something good in our hands and don't know what to do with it...

I had this feelings and thoughs ever since new updeat droped, and just wanted to share them with you. I hope that I'm wrong, and we can say to DE what should they do, becose behind curtains we are as devided as we were once, all those five years ago, one...

There are three categories of toxic players and people that, despite their own shortcomings, still feel compelled to speak on matters they shouldn't.

Group 1, and the worst group for gaming overall, are the nostalgia vets and agenda youtubers. Some (not all) youtube and reddit veterans created a cult that blindly follows a rhetoric that makes little sense. To put it bluntly, these people are like greedy politicians who would say anything to get likes and subscribes. Typical BS words and phrases that this group generated are: content drought, content island, lack of endgame, DE doesn't listen, difficulty (without using methods that increase difficulty), lack of meaningful rewards, devs should be fired, etc. This group constantly either counter themselves or don't actually play the game but, instead, watch a youtuber play and talk about it. This group is also the reason why DE rushed a lot of content out back in 2019 and got heavily criticized for it. They're also the reason why we lost the ability to see DE's long term ideas and plans. Trolls love being members of this group.

The second group are the insta-vets. This group watched every youtube video possible, bought the meta gear, live on Hydron and pretend like they can actually play the game. I've seen countless insta-vets die constantly, request taxis and play away from the team but, at the same time complain about "one-shotting" everything, bullet sponges, the "game doesn't tell me what to do" but it's also, "too easy"...all at the same time! I originally suspected these were just kids that are way too young and immature to play Warframe but, now... I've second guessed that.

The third group is the one I have sympathy for. This group has simply played for WAY WAY WAY too long. For them, little or no problems have now become gigantic issues for them. They've simply over-mastered the game and nothing short of Warframe 2 is going to make them happy. They need to not only take a break but also calm the hell down. They absolutely love the game but playing a game you've mechanically mastered means your going to increasingly be less hyped about updates and content. That's similar to a marriage becoming too routine and the spouse craves greener grass. 

Realizing these groups exist has made my gameplay time much easier. I've been playing for well over 5 years and have taken several breaks. Perfectly ok to do that but it seems some players have a hard time. Anyway, those are my community assessments regarding the toxic players.

 

[Corvid]

48 minutes ago, Leqesai said:

No parent of good conscience should let their kids use discord.

Er... why are you bringing kids into this?

Warframe players aren't kids (or at least, they shouldn't be).

[Leqesai]

Just now, Corvid said:

Er... why are you bringing kids into this?

Warframe players aren't kids (or at least, they shouldn't be).

It was a remark about discord not about warframe but okay.

[Corvid]

1 minute ago, Leqesai said:

It was a remark about discord not about warframe but okay.

And who here was saying that kids are (or should be) using Discord?

[Aldain]

Honestly I only use Discord for direct communication with friends, I don't go community hopping because I don't like random people at all.

I'm so not a social person, my posting habits on this forum should be good evidence of that.

[(PSN)Wil_Shatner_face]

25 minutes ago, GEN-Son_17 said:

There are three categories of toxic players and people that, despite their own shortcomings, still feel compelled to speak on matters they shouldn't.

Group 1, and the worst group for gaming overall, are the nostalgia vets and agenda youtubers. Some (not all) youtube and reddit veterans created a cult that blindly follows a rhetoric that makes little sense. To put it bluntly, these people are like greedy politicians who would say anything to get likes and subscribes. Typical BS words and phrases that this group generated are: content drought, content island, lack of endgame, DE doesn't listen, difficulty (without using methods that increase difficulty), lack of meaningful rewards, devs should be fired, etc. This group constantly either counter themselves or don't actually play the game but, instead, watch a youtuber play and talk about it. This group is also the reason why DE rushed a lot of content out back in 2019 and got heavily criticized for it. They're also the reason why we lost the ability to see DE's long term ideas and plans. Trolls love being members of this group.

The second group are the insta-vets. This group watched every youtube video possible, bought the meta gear, live on Hydron and pretend like they can actually play the game. I've seen countless insta-vets die constantly, request taxis and play away from the team but, at the same time complain about "one-shotting" everything, bullet sponges, the "game doesn't tell me what to do" but it's also, "too easy"...all at the same time! I originally suspected these were just kids that are way too young and immature to play Warframe but, now... I've second guessed that.

The third group is the one I have sympathy for. This group has simply played for WAY WAY WAY too long. For them, little or no problems have now become gigantic issues for them. They've simply over-mastered the game and nothing short of Warframe 2 is going to make them happy. They need to not only take a break but also calm the hell down. They absolutely love the game but playing a game you've mechanically mastered means your going to increasingly be less hyped about updates and content. That's similar to a marriage becoming too routine and the spouse craves greener grass. 

Realizing these groups exist has made my gameplay time much easier. I've been playing for well over 5 years and have taken several breaks. Perfectly ok to do that but it seems some players have a hard time. Anyway, those are my community assessments regarding the toxic players.

 

Stop trying to put people in boxes, it’s not productive. Humans are very complex and so are their thoughts and feelings.

Saying there’s only three categories of “toxic players” is grossly oversimplified to the point that it adds nothing to the discussion. Every person is unique so there are basically infinitely more categories than just three.

[(PSN)Madurai-Prime]

4 minutes ago, (PSN)Wil_Shatner_face said:

Stop trying to put people in boxes, it’s not productive. Humans are very complex and so are their thoughts and feelings.

Saying there’s only 3 categories of “toxic players” is grossly oversimplified to the loony that it adds nothing to the discussion. Every person is unique so there are basically infinitely more categories than just 3.

It actually is quite productive. It's rational and logical to actually point the mirror back at the people giving "feedback" and asses the person's motives or reasons for their feedback. 

If someone has to make a bunch of exaggerated threats because their Helminth roar was "nerfed", it's not DEs obligation to bend over backwards to appease that player or players. We should be taking a look at the person that threatens to leave the game and tell all their "boys" in an attempt to "kill the game" because DE "didn't listen to its players".