Update 30.5: Melee & Primary Balance Changes Feedback Megathread (Read First Post!)

[Anzu_Yamasaki]

Can you make login weapons sellable? I don't want to see zenistar ever again. kthxbye

[(PSN)KBDUltimateNin]

Guns should be weaker than melee. They just should because you can shoot from inside of cover (abilities or landscape) the added risk of being shot in the back of the head point blank should be a lot more damage. Furthermore a gun allows far greater range than melees allowing you to clear out swarms with two shots then simply pointing your reticle somewhere else and doing it again. As someone who prefers melee to guns and someone who has never loved gun games…. This is disappointing. I don’t feel rewarded by using my melee weapons. I feel kind of dumb sometimes bringing a knife to a gun fight. 
 

Glaives: so, you cut the dps of glaives in half. You did it by means of stats on the light attacks and by doubling the charge time on the heavy throws. That feels bad.  Why is it I have to keep throwing my glaive out when someone with an aoe primary weapon can bullet jump past and kill all the enemies I’m trying to kill in multiple throws. It’s infuriating. More so because their damage was further decreased by the general melee changes. I had a plethora of melee weapons I enjoyed using in solo and group combat. But it doesn’t feel good in a group anymore. I don’t generally like to explode my glaive but it seems the more viable option now and even then I have to choose between damage and being a sitting duck when I mod. Generally the fun of these weapons were decreased. Also if you see your fan base enjoying something en masse I think a better solution is creating new and interesting weapons and stances. Which leads me to berserker fury.

So, I prefer melee as a martial artist. It is the main appeal of warframe. You are a space ninja. But there are a few points I want to make. I’ll start here. If the reason for limiting speed addition is because you guys wanted animations to be seen, I would strongly suggests actually collaborating with martial artist to create the animations for these stances. Many of the types of weapons I am well versed in their application and the stances are unlike anything I was taught. I understand the art team spent their time on these animations and want them to be appreciated. Conversely I spent a longer time learning how to properly use these weapons and don’t necessarily want to be forced to watch bizzare misapplications. If the stances were all accurate and effective at group combat and solo combat I would appreciate the art more. But when the art doesn’t even try to pay homage to the arts it derives from and then forces you to watch it, just a general dissatisfaction. But if I really hate a stance I probably won’t use it unless I’m not forced to watch it. That’s without me usually putting on multiple speed mods. Maybe like 3 of my melees I keep use multiple speed mods but I considered them necessities on those builds. Which brings me to how slow some of these melees move while not chopping down enemies. If I’m going to be in the middle of enemies and not hiding behind cover or dodging bullets in the air, then when I swing this big slow sword I want it to be more effective than if I had chosen a safer path. Not get killed in the slow animation hitting the same opponent multiple times. One could argue that you should just heavy attack with Heavy swords, I would except the animations are completely lack luster and don’t flow well. And so I really don’t want to see or do them. I know how handling a weapon should flow. And that isn’t it. 
Then there is the on kill condition. If I don’t have a combo counter and my weapon is so slow that I modded for extra speed, getting that on kill can be incredibly difficult much more so when you realize you are still surrounded by enemies. Besides the few you are whacking. This condition was the one that made me take berserker fury off of all of my builds. It’s of no use to me if I die trying to get the first two kills. I’ll just go back to an aoe primary. But since I’m not a huge gun guy …. Meh it’s just not as much fun. And then the range on some of these weapons would require incredible speed to be good. Single target dps < Multiple target dps. Therefore single targets would have to do exponentially more damage to compete with anything that hits multiple targets. 
 

condition overload. It’s not worth using. It’s not worth farming. It’s not worth buying. So, what isn’t helpful is variable damage that is only marginally better than consistent damage. CO requires a ramp up on each enemy or would require you to prime the enemy first. And still only get a modest boost for that effort. It’s not rewarding enough. It’s off of all of my melee. Incidentally neither are the galvanized condition overloads. The damage bonus isn’t particularly noticeable. Just allow both melee and guns to continually benefit from stacks why would you cap it at two or three.  Disappointing.  The more statuses people can apply to boost their damage the more likely they are to apply different statuses to each weapon and swap in between. My melee can proc three statuses by itself. But it can’t proc 8. I would have to switch and then perhaps rely on my primary which has been powered by primary dexterity. But no. Also it’s a sneak nerf to Lavos. 

Blood rush, I understand this is the only mod some people used for crit. The cut seems too high however, when paired with sacrificial steel I’m still barely getting red crits. If I sacrifice another spot for more crit diminishing returns. So maybe like a 50% boost based on the combo counter would be better. The builds in which I sub out organ shatter for gladiator might feels better. Still not all red crits but enough that it feels rewarding. But I mean I don’t feel nearly as strongly about the blood rush changes. If I ranked them it would be something like. 1. Berserker 2. Glaives 3. Condition overload 4. Galvanized mods  5. Blood rush

onto the galvanized mods. You guys made a mistake in making the primary source of primary and secondary power being the arcanes. It should be how you mod  and your weapon stats, with arcanes providing a nice bonus on top of it but not more than those factors. The galvanized mods feel underpowered. Galvanized CO, I’ll call it competes with things like hammer shot and carnis stinger or a 60/60. The issue is the number of stacks. It’s not really rewarding enough for what it requires and what you sacrifice to put it on the build.  The critical chance galvanized mods I skipped altogether on head shot kill. Absolutely not. No way. Doesn’t even belong on a weapon I’m going to use. On headshot, ok. On damage, really powerful probably too much, on critical hit, that’s good. On status application, that’s interesting. But headshot kill. Never gonna use that. Too situational. The multi shot galvanized are great on AoE weapons and fails to help single target weapons keep up. I don’t understand why each gun wasn’t individually revisited. I’ve no issue with the strong getting stronger but shouldn’t everything else too. And if you didn’t want to go through each gun why not create a combo count system for guns similar to the way certain snipers work. 
 

I like the new arcanes. A lot. I just wish the mods performed this well and the arcanes did something like increasing fire rate and stacking that. Or other useful effects that bring up dps without outshining then modding. But they could just outshine the modding because the new mods don’t go far enough. 
 

 

[(PSN)GingyGreen]

Melee is still far and away still way too dominating and could use one more bump down.

[(PSN)KBDUltimateNin]

Just now, (PSN)GingyGreen said:

Melee is still far and away still way too dominating and could use one more bump down.

How so? the bramma and the ogres is outperform melee. 

[wirecard]

Hi All, Dear DE,

I will not say much about the Mods, Arcanes and Nerfs, as a lot of other people alread did so on the previos 13 Pages, but imho they are right regarding weak weapons have become even weaker while strong weapons have become even stronger and regarding "Arsenal Diversity", this whole change that came in U30.5 will tighten the list of weapons to choose.

Anyway, what I find really intriguing about the "On Kill" mechanics of Mods and Arcanes: It has emphasized the aspect of any Co-op game that the individual player does not play against the "red dots on minimap"/Enemies, but rather the "blue dots on minimap" a.k.a. the team. This is to get the kills for the Buffs and maintaining them throughout the session. It leads to lots of people doing their Mission in solo-gameplay, equal to less fun and loot for everyone (unless you are in a coordinated Squad going for Resources with e.g. Khora Nekros Speednova Banshee or similar tactics you are not capable of doing when going for a random Match).

The only thing where it will get more diversity is the Companion thingy, as people are not allowed anymore to wait for a smeeta affinity charm to collect their Steel- and Vitus Essence so i catched myself even before the update picking a Kubrow/Moa over a Smeeta Kavat.

What I thought was a real shame: While eliminating one of the few potentially "challenging" things, unveiling Riven Mods, these Riven Ciphers are available for STEEL ESSENCE but not for RIVEN SLIVERS which would have been a meaningful choice. Imho you should just move them from Teshin to Palladino in Iron Wake and make them cost like 25 Riven slivers and leave the 1-per-week mechanic as is.

 

[(PSN)Luke_Zakalwe]

This is not a current issue per se, but could be regarded as balancing feedback. I recently built a Primary Catchmoon, just to try it out, disregarding all the talk about how bad it is..... but damn, its bad!

The projectale of this gun is small compared to the secondary variant and requires aiming, but it still won't add a headshot multiplier to the gun.

With all the quirky aoe death machines we have access to, infinite enemy/flesh punch through on this lil shotgun wouldn't even be all that powerful even with the headshot multiplier. (I mean, it's still linear, narrow shot with a travel time + as a shotgun the projectile has a fall off radius). But it would certainy enable this to at least be viable..

(+ Galvanized Savvy doesn't work on this at all)

[(PSN)Svenx13]

vor 15 Stunden schrieb (PSN)Tazzilla88:

How so? the bramma and the ogres is outperform melee. 

With condition overload 

 

[moondog548]

I haven't noticed an impact on my gameplay, because these changes are the first ones that have me even remotely interested in engaging with The Steel Path.  So I remain optimistic!

[Her_Lovely_Tentacles]

With galvanized mods coming from Arbitrations, there's a bit of an Arbitration revival.

It's the perfect time to reevaluate why Seeding Step Ephemera is still in the droptable instead of the shop.

Aura Formas too, I've got way more than I am willing to build with how expensive the are.

 

And if they absolutely have to stay in the droptable, at least use the technology you have shown in Void Storms, where you could re-roll a drop for players individually.
It just feels disheartening to spend time in an Arbitration and then get back to back null-drops.

[Zilotz]

On 2021-07-13 at 7:57 AM, (PSN)Joshua_Badhan said:

I think that your multivariate analysis of guns and their underperformance compared to melee has highlighted most, if not all, of the key factors behind their incapability, though I think your proposed solutions are a bit awkward (e.g. adding arcanes to give us shattering impact and life strike for guns).

Maybe i didn't write it clear enough but i would prefer those as mods. And for arcanes something that will be around what melee arcanes have.

[Genitive]

I got one more galvanized mod and some arcanes. Currently I'm running builds with Galvanized Aptitude, Galvanized Chamber, and rank 1 of Primary Dexterity. I'm happy to say that together they do provide a significant damage increase (even with arcane at rank 1) and make guns more fun to use overall. However, I don't think galvanized mods on their own are powerful enough to justify having "on kill" condition. We already get them from high-end missions, they have a high drain and make guns require even more forma, and having one more hoop to jump through to activate them is unnecessary. They make already powerful weapons even more powerful, but weapons that struggle will still struggle because it will be harder to activate the buffs.

[Fyirnen]

the galvanized status mods are still bloody bugged for non hitscan guns

[iNemeq]

I have now spent considerable amounts of time trying to make regular guns work in Steel Path. I have all the Galvanized mods maxed out and most of the arcanes.

But it's just barely any difference. Don't get me wrong, the new mods and arcanes do work but even say my rifles that I have decent or very good rivens for still take anything from half a magazine to a full one to down a single enemy (barring punch through and enemies lining up in a pretty line). It's not worth the effort when I can bring any of the other already good options for Steel Path and plow through enemies but most of all it's really not an enjoyable experience when every single random enemy is a total bulletsponge when using regular guns.

I really want all classes of weapons to be viable in Steel Path without having to resort to specific frame combinations (and even then you're better of just bringing the good stuff anyway) but they are still not even close with these new mods and arcanes.

And as a sidenote - I really dislike the On-Kill mechanic for triggering these buffs, there's a myriad of reasons why this is bad and most are already mentioned but I'll add my voice to the choir and note that forcing things that are really bad at killing stuff at high levels kill stuff before they become slightly better at it is just frustrating ramp up. It also adds a totally unnecessary stress factor in keeping the buffs up because it's so damn annoying to lose them mid mission. It makes playing with other people a race and it makes dying super punishing. I really hope you will rethink this.

[xarvh]

I can't fit Galvanized mods on my primary, even after I formed every single slot there just isn't enough capacity, I have to drop the riven, Primed Cryo Rounds or the exilus mod.

We're moving towards "9 formas are necessary and still not enough" territory, seems a bit excessive.

[Petroklos]

On 2021-07-11 at 5:16 PM, Petroklos said:

Galvanized Multishot:

• These Mods are great, no problem on their end.
• They make the Base Multishot Mods almost irrelevant, hurting Build Diversity.
  • I can see use for the Base Multishot Mods against Bosses that don't spawn minions, like Eidolons and the Jackal.
  • In every other content, even on the Final Nemesis Confrontation which can lack minions, the Galvanized Multishot Mods' Base is irrelevantly weaker than their Base Counterparts.
  • I'd buff the Base Multishot Mods to equal the Galvanized Multishot Mods with one Stack active.
• To keep on with the Build Diversity, Split Flights remains extremely competitive with Galvanized Chamber, but I'd love to see Split Flights' Stacks changed to tick-down like the Galvanized Multishot Stacks do, instead of all going away on the 4s timer.

Galvanized Condition Overload:

• Haven't used them much, kinda waiting for their Bug to be fixed.
• Why do Pistols' get up to +120% Damage per Status Effect when Primaries, Shotguns and Melees get up to +80?
• Again on the Build Diversity end, Hammer Shot had developed a niche place after its buffs but is now completely overshadowed by Galvanized Aptitude. I would buff Hammer Shot's Critical Damage to roughly 100% as a start.

Galvanized Critical Chance:

• These are the least strong and dominating addition of the bunch, which I consider to be a positive.
• Paired with the buffs on the Corrupted Critical Chance Mods, there's a very interesting balance and choice to be made for our Critical Chance Mods for Guns, I love it.
• All of their Scaling Stacks go away when the timer ends, instead of ticking down.
  • Every other Galvanized Mod Type and the new Arcanes, tick down instead. If this is a bug, please fix.
  • If it's intentional, I don't understand why, please reconsider.
  • They're the hardest to activate, demanding Headshots for their basic functionality and then Headshot Kills for their Scaling, for which Headshot Kills from DoT Status Effects won't count.
  • They're also the most limiting to use, as both their basic and scaling functionalities demand us to be ADS. I'd love for their Scaling half to not need ADS.
  • They're also limited by Weapon Type (not much use on most Explosives) and by Faction (hard to use against Infested and Sentients).

Melee Nerfs:

• I'd be lying if I said that I notice the nerfs of Bloodrush and Condition Overload.
• Berserker Fury's changes lead to more Build Diversity which, surprise surprise, I really like!
• Its "On KIll" Condition really changes how one considers Scaling Melee Builds, as you need a way to get them started.
  • This would mean replacing a Scaling Mod with one of its Basic Counterparts, or using both a Basic and Scaling Mod.
  • For Berserker Fury the choice of an extra Base Attack Speed Mod to support it, would be between Quickening for more Attack Speed and faster Combo Gain, or Gladiator Vice for more Scaling Critical Chance.
  • Tip for those using Berserker Fury on its own: If you're already using Naramon for its Combo Drain negation, you also have access to Finishers with +30% Damage on demand. Use that to get your Berserker Fury Stacks started.

New Arcanes:

• I haven't gotten to use them much, as they're slow to get and haven't pushed any of them beyond Rank 1 yet.
• But so far I enjoy them. More Damage for the Weapons that need it or an option to completely replace Serration on other Weapons.

Overall I'm very happy with the changes and additions, and would love to see more frequent balance of this type, especially if it leads to more choices instead of raw powercreep. I believe that a significant look-over of many Mods that see no use, would do wonders for the game.

PS: The Cautious Shot Buff took way to long to happen, but I welcome it anyway.

Addendum to this.

Galvanized Condition Overload:

• I've started using them and I love their addition.
• They were the key to defeating the Nemesis' new resistance scaling.
  • Using a Primary with a Secondary and Melee as its Status Primers is very enjoyable.
• It can be used to replace the base Damage Mods, which is great for Build Diversity.
• Please fix their bugs.

Galvanized Critical Chance:

• I've honestly stopped using them since I realized that they lose all of their Stacks at the same time instead of ticking down, please fix.

Gun Arcanes:

• I've gotten to use them quite a bit, mostly the Deadhead and Dexterity, with some Merciless use as well.
  • I love their addition.
• Getting them has been much faster and easier than I expected.
  • A bit off topic, but Steel Path Incursions are such a good addition.
  • The first Acolyte spawn should happen earlier in the Missions, I've even finished Defense Missions so fast that they didn't get to spawn.
• They too can be used to replace the base Damage Mods, and maybe more when they hit Rank 5, which again, Build Diversity!
  • Pairing them with the Galvanized Condition Overloads, makes removal of the Base Damage Mods a very safe choice for most Weapons.
• Deadhead is my favorite of the bunch.
  • It's easy enough to get and sustain for specific Weapons, even on Steel Path.
  • I love how it promotes Raw Damage Builds instead of even more DoT (Viral + Slash/Heat) Builds.
• Dexterity might be the best of the bunch.
  • The fact that it gets started by Melee, which doesn't needs any kills to get started itself, makes it the best choice for any endless Steel Path Missions.
    • Unless you're using your Melee as a Primer.
  • It will shine the brightest in Vigorous Swap builds, especially if both Guns have R5 Dexterity Arcanes.
  • It can also be used as a "Statstick" for Melee Builds, which is nice I guess.
• Merciless is fine.
  • It too, like Deadhead, is extremely easy to keep up for specific Weapons and their builds, but I find it to be the most boring of the bunch.
  • Maybe that'll change once I get its R5 Bonuses, which should be very nice for quite a few Weapons.

After the past couple weeks of use, I'm even happier with these additions than I was on my original feedback post.

I will reiterate my desire for more balance passes and buffs on Mods that see no use and have no real niche.

[60framespersecond]

21 hours ago, Fyirnen said:

the galvanized status mods are still bloody bugged for non hitscan guns

Not only for projectile-based guns,  but for beam/hitscan as well. These mods add way less damage than they are advertising. E.g. fully stacked Galvanized Aptitude should do +320% with 4 status effects, but checking the resulting numbers on enemies, it's actually only around +200-210% (tested with Toxin Kuva Karak on Leaper, also have a post in the bug thread with numbers for the Tenet Cycron with similar results).

[addamrobin2]

let's get straight to the point

now that galvanized mods and arcanes exist, all i ever see in public are bramma/ogris/nukor and now the zarr and envoy

when are you doing your obligatory scummy move of nerfing more of these 5 forma mr13-16 weapons that still aren't mr locked? so i don't have to deal with the bs of investing in a weapon that you're going to nerf anyway just because you still have a broken mr weapon system 

thanks

[SeidronDaer]

Ash's Teleport with fatal teleport augment does no damage to sisters. Had Rakta Dark Dagger equipped. WAI or bug?

[Petroklos]

5 hours ago, 60framespersecond said:

Not only for projectile-based guns,  but for beam/hitscan as well. These mods add way less damage than they are advertising. E.g. fully stacked Galvanized Aptitude should do +320% with 4 status effects, but checking the resulting numbers on enemies, it's actually only around +200-210% (tested with Toxin Kuva Karak on Leaper, also have a post in the bug thread with numbers for the Tenet Cycron with similar results).

TL:DR Galvanized Aptitude, Galvanized Savvy, Galvanized Shot and most likely Condition Overload as well, don't increase the Innate Elemental Bonus of Kuva and Tenet Weapons.

Ok, so, here's what's wrong:

The math formula should be this: BaseDamage * (1 + GalvanizedBonus * Stacks * StatusEffects)

Then any Elementals would add this: BaseDamage * ElementalBonus * (1 + GalvanizedBonus * Stacks * StatusEffects)

Both of which could be summed up as: DealtDamage * (1 + GalvanizedBonus * Stacks * StatusEffects)

Here's what I got by testing against Leapers, with my Rank 8 Galvanized Aptitude (+32.7%)

• Braton Vandal - No Elemental Mods
  • Dealt Damage = 42
  • One Stack
    • Two Status Effects
      • Actual Damage = 71
      • 42 * (1 + .327 * 1 * 2) = 69.5
      • Correct, just a rounding error
  • Two Stacks
    • One Status Effect
      • Actual Damage = 71
      • 42 * (1 + .327 * 1 * 2) = 69.5
      • Correct, just a rounding error
    • Two Status Effects
      • Actual Damage = 98
      • 42 * (1 + .327 * 2 * 2) = 96.9
      • Correct, just a rounding error
• Braton Vandal - With Elemental Mods (Corrosive + Blast)
  • Dealt Damage = 126
  • One Stack
    • One Status Effect
      • Actual Damage = 167
      • 126 * (1 + .327 * 1 * 1) = 167
      • Correct
    • Two Status Effects
      • Actual Damage = 208
      • 126 * (1 + .327 * 1 * 2) = 208
      • Correct
    • Three Status Effects
      • Actual Damage = 250
      • 126 * (1 + .327 * 1 * 3) = 249.6
      • Correct, just a rounding error
  • Two Stacks
    • One Status Effect
      • Actual Damage = 208
      • 126 * (1 + .327 * 2 * 1) = 208.4
      • Correct, just a rounding error
    • Two Status Effects
      • Actual Damage = 290
      • 126 * (1 + .327 * 2 * 2) = 290.8
      • Correct, just a rounding error
    • Three Status Effects
      • Actual Damage = 373
      • 126 * (1 + .327 * 2 * 3) = 373.2
      • Correct, just a rounding error

So it all looks correct up until this point. Here's where it gets interesting:

• Kuva Karak - No Elemental Mods, Innate 42.6% Heat
  • Dealt Damage = 38
  • Two Stacks
    • One Status Effect
      • Actual Damage = 55
      • 38 * (1 + .327 * 2 * 1) = 62.8
      • 12.5% Damage Loss
    • Three Status Effects
      • Actual Damage = 90
      • 38 * (1 + .327 * 2 * 3) = 112.6
      • 20% Damage Loss
    • Four Status Effects
      • Actual Damage = 108
      • 38 * (1 + .327 * 2 * 4) = 137.4
      • 21.4% Damage Loss

So it seems to be a problem with the Nemesis Weapons and I think I know exactly where the problem is.

Instead of calculating the Damage like this: BaseDamage * (1 + ElementalBonus) * (1 + GalvanizedBonus * Stacks * StatusEffects)
it calculates it like this: BaseDamage * (1 + GalvanizedBonus * Stacks * StatusEffects) + BaseDamage * ElementalBonus

The Kuva Karak has 23 Base Damage.
My Kuva Karak with its +42.6% Heat has 32.8% Heat Damage.
It deals 38 Damage vs Leapers, so we can assume that its Elements have a total Effectiveness of 38/32.8 ~= 115.8%.

So, taking the Kuva Karak, Two Stacks, Four Status Effects as an example:

Calculating the Damage like this: [ BaseDamage * (1 + ElementalBonus) * (1 + GalvanizedBonus * Stacks * StatusEffects) ] * Effectiveness
should give us a total Damage of: [ 23 * (1 + 0.426) * (1 + 0.327 * 2 * 4) ] * 115.8% = 137.3
which is exactly what we were expecting to get in our previous calculations of Galvanized Aptitude.

Calculating the Damage like this: [ BaseDamage * (1 + GalvanizedBonus * Stacks * StatusEffects) + Base Damage * ElementalBonus) ] * Effectiveness
should give us a total Damage of: [ 23 * (1 + 0.327 * 2 * 4) + 23 * 0.426 ] * 115.8% = 107.7
which is just a rounding error away from the damage we actually get in game.

[60framespersecond]

3 hours ago, Petroklos said:

TL:DR Galvanized Aptitude, Galvanized Savvy, Galvanized Shot and most likely Condition Overload as well, don't increase the Innate Elemental Bonus of Kuva and Tenet Weapons.

Ok, so, here's what's wrong:

The math formula should be this: BaseDamage * (1 + GalvanizedBonus * Stacks * StatusEffects)

Then any Elementals would add this: BaseDamage * ElementalBonus * (1 + GalvanizedBonus * Stacks * StatusEffects)

Both of which could be summed up as: DealtDamage * (1 + GalvanizedBonus * Stacks * StatusEffects)

Here's what I got by testing against Leapers, with my Rank 8 Galvanized Aptitude (+32.7%)

• Braton Vandal - No Elemental Mods
  • Dealt Damage = 42
  • One Stack
    • Two Status Effects
      • Actual Damage = 71
      • 42 * (1 + .327 * 1 * 2) = 69.5
      • Correct, just a rounding error
  • Two Stacks
    • One Status Effect
      • Actual Damage = 71
      • 42 * (1 + .327 * 1 * 2) = 69.5
      • Correct, just a rounding error
    • Two Status Effects
      • Actual Damage = 98
      • 42 * (1 + .327 * 2 * 2) = 96.9
      • Correct, just a rounding error
• Braton Vandal - With Elemental Mods (Corrosive + Blast)
  • Dealt Damage = 126
  • One Stack
    • One Status Effect
      • Actual Damage = 167
      • 126 * (1 + .327 * 1 * 1) = 167
      • Correct
    • Two Status Effects
      • Actual Damage = 208
      • 126 * (1 + .327 * 1 * 2) = 208
      • Correct
    • Three Status Effects
      • Actual Damage = 250
      • 126 * (1 + .327 * 1 * 3) = 249.6
      • Correct, just a rounding error
  • Two Stacks
    • One Status Effect
      • Actual Damage = 208
      • 126 * (1 + .327 * 2 * 1) = 208.4
      • Correct, just a rounding error
    • Two Status Effects
      • Actual Damage = 290
      • 126 * (1 + .327 * 2 * 2) = 290.8
      • Correct, just a rounding error
    • Three Status Effects
      • Actual Damage = 373
      • 126 * (1 + .327 * 2 * 3) = 373.2
      • Correct, just a rounding error

So it all looks correct up until this point. Here's where it gets interesting:

• Kuva Karak - No Elemental Mods, Innate 42.6% Heat
  • Dealt Damage = 38
  • Two Stacks
    • One Status Effect
      • Actual Damage = 55
      • 38 * (1 + .327 * 2 * 1) = 62.8
      • 12.5% Damage Loss
    • Three Status Effects
      • Actual Damage = 90
      • 38 * (1 + .327 * 2 * 3) = 112.6
      • 20% Damage Loss
    • Four Status Effects
      • Actual Damage = 108
      • 38 * (1 + .327 * 2 * 4) = 137.4
      • 21.4% Damage Loss

So it seems to be a problem with the Nemesis Weapons and I think I know exactly where the problem is.

Instead of calculating the Damage like this: BaseDamage * (1 + ElementalBonus) * (1 + GalvanizedBonus * Stacks * StatusEffects)
it calculates it like this: BaseDamage * (1 + GalvanizedBonus * Stacks * StatusEffects) + BaseDamage * ElementalBonus

The Kuva Karak has 23 Base Damage.
My Kuva Karak with its +42.6% Heat has 32.8% Heat Damage.
It deals 38 Damage vs Leapers, so we can assume that its Elements have a total Effectiveness of 38/32.8 ~= 115.8%.

So, taking the Kuva Karak, Two Stacks, Four Status Effects as an example:

Calculating the Damage like this: [ BaseDamage * (1 + ElementalBonus) * (1 + GalvanizedBonus * Stacks * StatusEffects) ] * Effectiveness
should give us a total Damage of: [ 23 * (1 + 0.426) * (1 + 0.327 * 2 * 4) ] * 115.8% = 137.3
which is exactly what we were expecting to get in our previous calculations of Galvanized Aptitude.

Calculating the Damage like this: [ BaseDamage * (1 + GalvanizedBonus * Stacks * StatusEffects) + Base Damage * ElementalBonus) ] * Effectiveness
should give us a total Damage of: [ 23 * (1 + 0.327 * 2 * 4) + 23 * 0.426 ] * 115.8% = 107.7
which is just a rounding error away from the damage we actually get in game.

Nice, good job finding this! Hope they fix it...

[Her_Lovely_Tentacles]

Archguns/heavy weapons seem to be left behind.

No Exilus slot, no Arcane Slot, no improved mods, and their stats haven't been buffed either.

Shouldn't heavy weapons be stronger than primary/secondary/melee?

[(PSN)BillyBobJoeBro1]

For the Deadhead mods + Galvanized crit mods, I think they would work better if they could trigger off of status effects from headshots. No idea how easy that is to code, but it would make them more generally useful. Here are the weapons I use most that I consider more "precision weapons":

• Bows
  • Dread
    • Has high crit for Hunter Munitions + high base slash
  • Daikyu
    • Has guaranteed impact procs for Internal Bleeding
• Zymos
  • Has guaranteed impact procs for Hemorrhage
• Kuva Chakkhurr
  • Has guaranteed impact procs for Internal Bleeding

Just about the only weapons I use that don't have some kind of status DoT are Euphona Prime and melees. Euphona isn't exactly steel path viable, and melees won't benefit from this. I was so excited to hear about Deadhead because of how much I love Zymos, which is all about getting precision headshots, but it just fundamentally doesn't work right now.

[FA22_RaptoR]

Anyone else notice that the Pathocyst heavy attack base damage has been cut in half? I was noticing it seemed anemic lately.

Should be ~1500 damage it's like ~750 right now.

 

For the heavy attack specifically, not the quick throw damage. I checked other glaive types and the damage seems to be correct.

[0_The_F00l]

After using a variety of weapons and leveling some of the Arcanes i am giving the following feedback:

1) Galvanaized status mods (aptitude, savvy , shot) are very good but do not outclass melee CO builds , WHICH IS GOOD , power creep should be in check which i think is accomplished here. i have been using my guns a lot more compared to the past , and surprisingly i am using other melee weapons than the one I used for nearly a year now and i am still having fun without feeling handicapped or janky.

I understand there is currently a bug due to which galvanized mods do not affect projectiles and effective AOE damage. While i am hoping for the fix on projectile damage (for guns like hema , harpak , sarpa etc.),  , i think AOE Radial damage should not be affected by the buff (bramma , zarr, envoy) , AOE weapons were already the most effective weapons before the buff , if the galvanized mods can add even more damage to the radial explosions the gap between single target and AOE weapons will just go wider that will just lead to a nerf to either the mods or the weapons in question. i think it is enough of a power check by itself.

So i am really hoping the fix does not affect explosions.

2) Galvanied scope loses all of its charge at the same time instead of decaying , not sure if oversight or intentional. if an oversight i hope it is fixed , if intentional ... i do not see myself using it honestly,

3) The Arcanes are good , they do what they say - decaying instead of completely disappearing is a nice effect , i wish more stacking buffs did that -  farming them is not a major annoyance as of now either, but i feel just adding damage is a wasted potential , i feel there should be other base bonuses like reload speed , fire rate AT THE CORE and not as a max rank bonus , we already have arcanes we get from eidolons that do that , it would be great if they work on the weapons as well. i already made a post about it in the past. maybe consider it as an option after some balance passes.

Overall the gap between melee and guns is lesser but i feel there is still more to be done.

[DrivaMain]

What made Melee superior to guns is the increased capacity the melees can get from Stances. Making modding them more convenient and less forma intensive, guns on the other hand don't and eats a lot of forma to get a useful build. 

It would be nice if the primary and secondary arcanes gives bonus capacity depending on Rank.