Cross-Play & Cross-Save Megathread - The Soonening(TM)/Public Test Edition

[gamingchair1121]

2 hours ago, Skoomaseller said:

while I agree with you that DE isn't some smol indie company anymore, I think it's best we let them take their time for this

especially when we could potentially lose a ton of accounts if they mess it up, they have to take their time

[(PSN)slightconfuzzled]

Yeah DE should release it right now, if people lose accounts or items and stuff is messed up big time, I personally won't mind as long as my account is fine. I've been waiting so long, well I mean, we all have, but especially me. DE isn't a quaint Ma and Pa store anymore, they are big business and a part of that is that they should accomodate me personally and not do anything rash or out of pressure or guilt, haha, just kidding, they totally should. Since again, I have been waiting. Patiently. 

[Surbusken]

Have they said they will enable cross platform trading?

I imagine the trading and down the road cross platform items and grinding are going to be blocked. So you can't grind tennogen items on console then transfer account to PC after.

Whichever platform prime items are most expensive on will cost them money if they allow trading right?

Or get a plat discount on PC then transfer it to console. I would also assume that includes gifting across platforms.

[(XBOX)elementXGHILLIE]

3 hours ago, (XBOX)killdil60 said:

alight i feel like we've all been patiently waiting for cross save progression and im honestly starting to be a little disappointed with de i understand that for what ever reason they wanted cross play to be enabled first even tho 99% of people just play with randoms or play solo but i not too long ago i looked up what cross play they even enabled and to my not so surprise nothing atleast at the time i was looking it up you cant trade with other platforms you cant talk in game with other platforms and you cant even send them friend requests so you've literally done nothing and if not nothing the bare minimum. de is a little tiny whole in the wall company anymore i expected more but when it comes to nerfing things players are enjoying and having fun with you all are awfully quick to fix those issues 

I'm fine with them taking their time, but it has been a long time since announced. What nearly 2 years? I would say DE should wait and prioritize cross save over updates, but that would leave a majority of their staff on standby. I think De just needs more programmers and less artists. They need to sort out the foundation of warframe's code, I feel like they are playing Jenga with warframe at his point. Add this, breaks that. Fix that, breaks this. That last thing I wanna see is Warframe crumble. 

[(XBOX)ECCHO SIERRA]

I dont understand why cross save is taking so long and after all this time the only answer is "we're working on it". Maybe its harder than i think but i would have thought *cross play* would be the bigger hurdle.

 

[quxier]

8 minutes ago, (XBOX)ECCHO SIERRA said:

I dont understand why cross save is taking so long and after all this time the only answer is "we're working on it". Maybe its harder than i think but i would have thought *cross play* would be the bigger hurdle.

It's probably everything that needs communications between platforms (not only player-wise but company wise) needs more thinking. Like we pc players have discounts on plat pucharse. You have discount on next item pucharse. Frames costs mostly <100 (primes). (Some) Console's prizes are much higher. What about stuffs you buy from one platform because it's cheaper and use it on another? Platform companies don't like this.

That's what I hear.

[GilgaMelchi]

il y a 17 minutes, (XBOX)ECCHO SIERRA a dit :

I dont understand why cross save is taking so long and after all this time the only answer is "we're working on it". Maybe its harder than i think but i would have thought *cross play* would be the bigger hurdle.

 

There's also probably a few economic design choices they have to resolve before they decide to implement cross save.

Because of the platform exclusive items and the ways platinum work differently between PC and consoles.

And all the players with duplicated accounts (due to past migrations).

Edited February 19, 2023 by GilgaMelchi

[(PSN)jaggerwanderer]

DE is just being very careful with cross save. Being able to duplicate items is a major hazard. Let a long being able to access one account from multiple platforms at one time.

[(XBOX)ECCHO SIERRA]

28 minutes ago, quxier said:

It's probably everything that needs communications between platforms (not only player-wise but company wise) needs more thinking. Like we pc players have discounts on plat pucharse. You have discount on next item pucharse. Frames costs mostly <100 (primes). (Some) Console's prizes are much higher. What about stuffs you buy from one platform because it's cheaper and use it on another? Platform companies don't like this.

That's what I hear.

I get that. And im not trying to bash DE here maybe its harder than i realize but whatever the answers to those problems are, theyve had an awful long time to think about it. How long has it been since cross save was even announced? And presumably it was in development/consideration even before that.

22 minutes ago, GilgaMelchi said:

There's also probably a few economic design choices they have to resolve before they decide to implement cross save.

Because of the platform exclusive items and the ways platinum work differently between PC and consoles.

And all the players with duplicated accounts (due to past migrations).

Yeah. But i feel like if you had a few conference calls or meetings or whatever that could be hashed out in fairly short order. I have a feeling its more about the tech involved. But i could be wrong.

[quxier]

33 minutes ago, (XBOX)ECCHO SIERRA said:

1 hour ago, quxier said:

It's probably everything that needs communications between platforms (not only player-wise but company wise) needs more thinking. Like we pc players have discounts on plat pucharse. You have discount on next item pucharse. Frames costs mostly <100 (primes). (Some) Console's prizes are much higher. What about stuffs you buy from one platform because it's cheaper and use it on another? Platform companies don't like this.

That's what I hear.

I get that. And im not trying to bash DE here maybe its harder than i realize but whatever the answers to those problems are, theyve had an awful long time to think about it. How long has it been since cross save was even announced? And presumably it was in development/consideration even before that.

They are working on Duviri, they introduced crossplay (still not working correctly) and in the meantime they had few other stuffs. And recently their team split up (new game). They probably want to take it slowly.

 

^ this reddit posts/comments are nice

[ShogunGunshow]

TBH, given how they have to wait for console cert now every time they want to touch code, I'm kind of wishing crossplay was never a thing. Issues for that would usually be easy to fix in a few days have to wait weeks now, and it really doesn't fit with DE's 'code loose and dirty' development style. Combined with the fact that they often have to quickly shift resources away from fixing whatever they just released to pump out something new, and I've been noticing a LOT more obvious and unaddressed bugs since we went crossplay.

[CypressEDF]

6 hours ago, (XBOX)killdil60 said:

alight i feel like we've all been patiently waiting for cross save progression and im honestly starting to be a little disappointed with de i understand that for what ever reason they wanted cross play to be enabled first even tho 99% of people just play with randoms or play solo but i not too long ago i looked up what cross play they even enabled and to my not so surprise nothing atleast at the time i was looking it up you cant trade with other platforms you cant talk in game with other platforms and you cant even send them friend requests so you've literally done nothing and if not nothing the bare minimum. de is a little tiny whole in the wall company anymore i expected more but when it comes to nerfing things players are enjoying and having fun with you all are awfully quick to fix those issues 

I haven't read the other responses on this, so I'm not sure how everyone else feels, but I don't really see this as a big priority.  They made an improvement to filling lobbies and making the game more easily accessibly to be social, if you want to contact a crossplay player, discord works like it always has.  I'm not saying that cross save isn't a big feature that should be added, I just feel we should cut DE some slack here.  No way is this easy and there are currently plenty of other things they need to focus on.  

[Hobie-wan]

2 hours ago, (PSN)jaggerwanderer said:

DE is just being very careful with cross save. Being able to duplicate items is a major hazard. Let a long being able to access one account from multiple platforms at one time.

That, the difference in dojos and keeping changes the same on multiple platforms, discounts, stores, and economies, how to merge accounts people have on different platforms, and so on. If they don't merge those, then there's the huge problem of people trading with themselves which of course it a big nono.

Aside from the economy upheaval, which will happen even if they manage to minimize it a bit, there's so many things that could go wrong. They're being careful, as they should.

[Skoomaseller]

6 hours ago, ShogunGunshow said:

TBH, given how they have to wait for console cert now every time they want to touch code, I'm kind of wishing crossplay was never a thing. Issues for that would usually be easy to fix in a few days have to wait weeks now, and it really doesn't fit with DE's 'code loose and dirty' development style. Combined with the fact that they often have to quickly shift resources away from fixing whatever they just released to pump out something new, and I've been noticing a LOT more obvious and unaddressed bugs since we went crossplay.

agreed

[xcrimsonlegendx]

Trying to shoehorn cross-play into a 10 year old game isn't as easy a flipping as switch, its impressive they even managed to pull if off, give 'em a break.

[PollexMessier]

15 hours ago, Surbusken said:

Have they said they will enable cross platform trading?

I imagine the trading and down the road cross platform items and grinding are going to be blocked. So you can't grind tennogen items on console then transfer account to PC after.

Whichever platform prime items are most expensive on will cost them money if they allow trading right?

Or get a plat discount on PC then transfer it to console. I would also assume that includes gifting across platforms.

Cross save will have to include cosmetic items and premium currency or it might as well not even exist.

I hope they just find a way to consolidate everything so there's no discrepancies between platforms like that. Otherwise players with access to both pc and console will have an extremely unfair advantage.

Not being able to gift or trade cross platform is just stupid.

[Surbusken]

1 minute ago, PollexMessier said:

Cross save will have to include cosmetic items and premium currency or it might as well not even exist.

I hope they just find a way to consolidate everything so there's no discrepancies between platforms like that. Otherwise players with access to both pc and console will have an extremely unfair advantage.

Not being able to gift or trade cross platform is just stupid.

I tend to agree and I have absolutely no idea. Haven't heard anyone say anything about anything.

I am just assuming it's going to be the worst possible scenario for the players, and the most profitable for the developers.

 

So for instance gifting, you could have a mule PC account waiting for a discount coupon, then buy items cheaper and send them to your console through gifting.

Tennogen items you can grind for free on console, then transfer to PC. And far as I think I heard prime parts cost more on console. Only way to make sure the prime cost stays high is blocking trading.

 

I could also easily imagine it being 'in beta' for forever, where they avoid all those complaints and just stall/sit on the fence about it.

In their defense it is a logistical nightmare I imagine, with stuff like arcane helmets, excalibur prime and what not.

Going back to the free grinding of tennogen items on console, do you allow people to transfer items that go back to a certain date?

 

[SneakyErvin]

4 hours ago, Surbusken said:

I tend to agree and I have absolutely no idea. Haven't heard anyone say anything about anything.

I am just assuming it's going to be the worst possible scenario for the players, and the most profitable for the developers.

 

So for instance gifting, you could have a mule PC account waiting for a discount coupon, then buy items cheaper and send them to your console through gifting.

Tennogen items you can grind for free on console, then transfer to PC. And far as I think I heard prime parts cost more on console. Only way to make sure the prime cost stays high is blocking trading.

 

I could also easily imagine it being 'in beta' for forever, where they avoid all those complaints and just stall/sit on the fence about it.

In their defense it is a logistical nightmare I imagine, with stuff like arcane helmets, excalibur prime and what not.

Going back to the free grinding of tennogen items on console, do you allow people to transfer items that go back to a certain date?

 

You wont be able to mule anything, just as you cant mule on PC to PC now for cupons, since well, it is a bannable offense to cross-interact with accounts that you own. Ontop of that, in the future it will all just be 1 Warframe account, where console, PC and phones will have everything the same. So the whole scenario of grinding tennogen free on console and transfer to PC wont be a thing, since it will all be the same account, so whatever is done on one platform is automatically updated across the account i.e cross-save/progress after the date it goes live. Which also covers economy, which will end up being 1 single economy since all platforms are now 1. So there will also be no blocking of trading, since again, it is 1 account on a unified game with 1 economy across the board.

The reason it takes time is so people can merge all possible current accounts into 1 main account of their choice, meaning everything bought across the accounts up until the date cross-save goes live will be transfered. They even touched on this long ago when they talked about how they were going to solve multiple purchases of the same thing, how that was going to be refunded etc. Personally I think it could just be skipped since no one forced people to play on several platforms or accounts and there were never any promises of cross-save when the pruchases were made etc. The players already get the benefit of being able to play from anywhere, which is already a cost made by DE that they wont get back, so no idea why the players should get refunded something when there is already a massive benefit to the cross-save system.

As to your last question. Everything back to the day you started the account will transfer, that is the intent. So if you want free tennogen and you currently play on PC "all" you need to do is start a console account, grind tennogen on it for free and then merge it with your PC account as the main when cross-save goes live. After cross-save goes live all tennogen will be obtained in 1 unified way. We just dont know if it will be plat purches like current console or cash only from Steam like current PC tennogen. I wouldnt be surprised if they'll be direct purchases from the site where DE manages the income for each tennogen creator instead of Valve.

[(XBOX)EternalDrk Mako]

On 2/19/2023 at 9:20 AM, Skoomaseller said:

while I agree with you that DE isn't some smol indie company anymore, I think it's best we let them take their time for this

we've already seen what happens when things come out the gate unfinished or not well planned (railjack/old blood)

 

On 2/19/2023 at 9:13 AM, (XBOX)killdil60 said:

alight i feel like we've all been patiently waiting for cross save progression and im honestly starting to be a little disappointed with de i understand that for what ever reason they wanted cross play to be enabled first even tho 99% of people just play with randoms or play solo but i not too long ago i looked up what cross play they even enabled and to my not so surprise nothing atleast at the time i was looking it up you cant trade with other platforms you cant talk in game with other platforms and you cant even send them friend requests so you've literally done nothing and if not nothing the bare minimum. de is a little tiny whole in the wall company anymore i expected more but when it comes to nerfing things players are enjoying and having fun with you all are awfully quick to fix those issues 

i just wanted to inject some info, 

1st warframes parent company Digital extremes has been around the block a while, usually as a side studio and or assistance, groundwork  , later started producing its own content and games, warframe, (keystone) amazing eternal, soulframe(TBD) 

issue is its always been low staffing and half studio was prior a support staff (later changed to a 3rd party vendor) 

currently DE staffing is 200-300+ iirc last info i checked, bungie (owners of destiny 2 presently) have 2000+ staffing last i , to give a comparison  

yes ,DE isnt new to the game scene but it is still small time staffing size and has its fair issues due to this (expansion is required imo) 

half or more of this is divided into various othe rjobs like tech, HR, ECT other staffing not directly tied to the game development itself, further divide in half as majority of older devs moved to soulframe exclusively with some staff going between both on various tasks projects 

prior we didn't have Crossplay at all and that was sent live last year ( a true mile stone imo) 

Cross Save is currently in the works (read devstream 167 overview), but trading, clans, ect other factors beyond just play and or user metadata saving is a factor they are investigating and working on currently. As I'm sure nobody wishes the save or items to go missing or other issues to occur, so letting the small staff that is available iron out these kinks in this amount of time is actually highly impressive 

secondary issue is DE come up with new or innovative ideas, but implementing them and or making them go from idea to ingame can be lacking/halfbaked or cut down for time restrictions as they have to push "something out" to meet market demand and financing base don sales of the update, this isnt meant to be insulting but rather blunt, it occurs and de isnt the only dev who does it 

 

[(XBOX)Rez090]

12 hours ago, PollexMessier said:

I hope they just find a way to consolidate everything

Something that I know probably won't be popular is regarding Umbra for people with multiple accounts, though DE could potentially do it for everyone. I predict that DE, to consolidate Umbra, will have to fully reset him for everyone, meaning refunding all formas spent on him and resetting rank.

[Surbusken]

On 2023-02-20 at 5:04 PM, SneakyErvin said:

...

In your scenario, if true, then it still has the exact same problems.

But you are right, they can just ban everything universally to get around the problems, except cheaper prime parts market.

No more tennogen, no more coupons, that sounds likely, I could see that happening.

[SneakyErvin]

6 hours ago, Surbusken said:

In your scenario, if true, then it still has the exact same problems.

But you are right, they can just ban everything universally to get around the problems, except cheaper prime parts market.

No more tennogen, no more coupons, that sounds likely, I could see that happening.

What are you even on about?

There wont be any problems with it since it will simply work as now but with unified rules. So we either end up with console or PC monetization. Not quite sure you understand how it currently works since you say "they can just ban everything universally to get around the problems". It is already like that, you are not allowed to interact with your own accounts on any platform. I'm also not sure why you even say "cheaper prime parts market. Cheaper in comparison to what? It will be one single market after cross-progress/save is added, and if the prices get higher or lower for prime parts is soley based on which platform is your main up until the system goes live, since it is based on the economy of the individual community. Which in itself is based on player count, supply and demand and so on. Some of us will see cheaper primes parts, others will see a price increase since it fully depends which platform price will be the avarage which is puched. DE has no involvement in that, it is a pure player thing. Whichever platform is currently the most expensive will likely end up seeing cheaper prices while the current cheaper ones will see a price increase, since a new avarage will be seen.

That is a long long stretch since tennogen already exsists with different monetization, they just need to decide on which they're gonna go with. Gutting it wouldnt be a thing, since it helps DE produce assets for the game without going through the whole process themselves. And no more coupons? We dont know, we'll end up with either coupons or sales like it currently works on console.

[Mieo_Mio]

Hey, they can take more time than they need for cross-save. Corrupted save data would be a real treat for someone with 2k+ hours invested... Know what I'm saying?

[SneakyErvin]

15 hours ago, Surbusken said:

The point in case started with trading currently being disabled between platforms.

We then move into 3 items of debate, PC coupons, tennogen items and "cheaper prime parts".

Consoles don't have coupons, PC doesn't have free non cash tennogen and prime parts cost more on console, allegedly.

 

So in order to not lose money, the speculation was to delete tennogen and plat coupons universally, so that you couldn't simply jump platform and get around it. And to keep blocking trading between platforms - hereunder it being a good reason to not have trading online currently.

For instance wait for a plat coupon on PC, buy cheaper prime parts and hop back on playstation.

Or, grind out free tennogen items on console and return to PC.

 

Like I said, I haven't heard anything or read anything, which I said right off the bat. Just that I'd assume their choices would be based on increasing their profits, with no advantages or upside to the players.

I feel that's a reasonable speculation based on the premise of them being a corporation trying to make money.

Whereas what you type seems to be rooted in developer apologism, mostly.

But we already have info at hand on what we are going to get. Tennogen will stay, we just dont know how everyone will need to buy it after cross-save is released. We also dont know if coupons will be the main "deal" or if console sales will, one or the other will stay. Cheaper prime parts just wont be a thing, because there wont be a "jumping to console" option, since it will be a single market across all platforms, so whatever price is the lowest is the lowest. And the reason they dont have trading online currently is because that interaction between players isnt ready yet, there are many corss-things still not ready.

And why speculate on things that we already know wont be true? Clearly yeah as you say you havent kept up with anything, so why do you even blabber on the forums when you dont seem all that interested in it in the first place? And the speculation isnt reasonable one bit, since we already have info about the opposite.

What I write is rooted in the info we have access to and have had access to for a few years now. You seem to be of the idea that just because we have cross-play we should automatically also have cross-save/progress even though the two require widely different things to work. The latter needs everything regarding data to be bug free so people dont end up losing things and trade between platforms is part of this. It is one thing for a game to fetch info on what items a person has so he can play with others in missions, it is another to make those items switch hands across different database servers, hence why we dont have a global WF account yet or trading.

Imagine if they knee-jerk release cross-save/progress/trade because people cry about it not being in yet and people start losing progress, traded items, plat or at worst full accounts. This is one of the few things DE needs to be sure is bug free when it releases.

[SneakyErvin]

3 hours ago, Surbusken said:

Same problems still.

If you can cross save, you can go to mobile or console to farm tennogen, save, play PC.

For PC coupons, you get your 75% discount and spend it on the cheaper PC prime market, save, then play console.

 

The only way to stop the loss of money, is to disable or block those options.

Which as I said, is the rational, logical choice, if you are a business. Hell, it's ingrained into the very fabric of industry, legally:

But that isnt how it is going to work since that isnt how cross-save and cross-play work in games that utilize such things. The whole point of it is to have a single account that has access to all platforms where everything is the exact same.

The only single point you have is regarding how they'll treat platinum discounts, if it will be tied to coupons or "events", and how they'll end up handling Tennogen, if it will be plat purches or cash only going forward. But just that you imagine it will get removed completely is straight up silly since both are income venues for DE. That you still bring up prime parts, which are sold between players and not directly from DE just shows how detatched you are from it all. There will only be one big market, where the prices and sellers are the exact same no matter which platform you use to log on through, since everyone will only have a single account. That is the essence and reason for cross-progress and cross-save.

You are poorly "educated" when it comes to cross-play concepts in general and you are very out of touch and out of date when it comes to what DE have already presented.